The Decline Continues

[changer 459]

1 hour ago, SeeD said:

Just gonna say,  a majority voted for the elevation reset, that didnt go well.

 

Budda is now the product manager, thats the lead design

the reset went well, but the map was too ###### and too big, and by then epic was already old enough that players had the skills and resources to build up safety nets quickly and then combined with the shittiest ideas for pvp like the change in catapulting, underground/underwater structures, hell horses, and having no cap on deeds or deeds per sqm, you're looking at spending hours stealthing/sailing around for the possibility of killing something which will be in safety in 20 seconds while running 45kmh in any direction.

 

epic stagnated because the only way the game can go with the current game mechanics is further stagnation, and now they'll make nolocate useless + depend more on ql and character skill for boats instead of player skill so it'll be an even shittier idea to go out and roam, and when nobody roams, there's no initial kills, there's no reaction to those kills, and in the end nothing ever happens.

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by changer

[MrGARY 12,421]

41 minutes ago, changer said:

safety nets

supreme sailboats + heal

42 minutes ago, changer said:

no cap on deeds

doesnt/didnt rome have the most "pvp" deeds

42 minutes ago, changer said:

nolocate useless

being able to find people is worse than being unable to find people   able to locate = able to find = able to pvp, unless people plan to go to mrh/jkh/blh/roam ele and not be found to avoid pvp?

44 minutes ago, changer said:

depend more on ql and character skill for boats instead of player skill

something did need doing to counter just using a rare/supreme sail to go max speed even if you're losing, but 50/50 on it just don't know any other solution other than adding rng boat speeds like normal horses have

[Propheteer 7,139]

Just now, MrGARY said:

supreme sailboats + heal
which he has said needs to be addressed in other posts, but there is a counter to most engagements as is. you wouldnt know that because you don't pvp.

doesnt/didnt rome have the most "pvp" deeds

I don't know about that, when i was in Rome the only real wardeed was Trier. Superspazz and his friends lived in Capua, although they couldn't play much. Drastox and co, and NODE lived in the deed on the island to the east at different periods, Drastox was the last owner though. I actually lived in Vercellae up until we founded Trier, when i moved back to Rome. So really it's just two wardeeds, on par with JK. I'd actually say MR has more than JK or Rome. The main difference with Rome was that we had people who wanted to have their own deeds, and we picked the best spot for them.

being able to find people is worse than being unable to find people   able to locate = able to find = able to pvp, unless people plan to go to mrh/jkh/blh/roam ele and not be found to avoid pvp? Hard to really enter an engagement when you know everyone outnumbers you if you can't get away, after all, the game is a numbers game. You would also know this if you pvped.

something did need doing to counter just using a rare/supreme sail to go max speed even if you're losing, but 50/50 on it just don't know any other solution other than adding rng boat speeds like normal horses have

 

[changer 459]

37 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

supreme sailboats + heal

doesnt/didnt rome have the most "pvp" deeds

being able to find people is worse than being unable to find people   able to locate = able to find = able to pvp, unless people plan to go to mrh/jkh/blh/roam ele and not be found to avoid pvp?

something did need doing to counter just using a rare/supreme sail to go max speed even if you're losing, but 50/50 on it just don't know any other solution other than adding rng boat speeds like normal horses have

supreme/rare doesn't add speed afaik, heal is player skill dependent for both the caster and the driver

 

no idea, deed cancer is the most effective way to play this game pvp wise, but that doesn't mean that it's the best FOR the game

 

how are you supposed to find them if they won't go out in the first place because of more game mechanics preventions of just that, them roaming, assuming we take this to the extreme and announce with an orange message when everyone leaves deed with a live map of their coordinates, do you think that would increase the amount of people roaming, or up the amount of deaths per day? The principle of aggression is what creates the pvp, not the counteraction to that aggression, and if there's no aggression, there's nothing to react to, thus no pvp

 

for example, as a response to the new game mechanics of underwater building, mrh mass-built walls all over their canals and built gatehouses every 15 tiles on their server, it isn't worth it for us to go there anymore as we would have to sit there catapulting for hours in order to actually get to where the population lives, less pvp is made, just because of that game mechanic. Pvp wasn't reduced there because the mrh population decreased or didn't fight in order to counteract us, it happened because there was no aggression from us anymore due to the new game mechanics.

 

jk/bl/mr used rare/supreme boats plenty of times, guess where their boats are now? in our boatcave, see first answer

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by changer

[MrGARY 12,421]

23 minutes ago, changer said:

supreme/rare doesn't add speed afaik, heal is player skill dependent for both the caster and the driver. 

 

no idea, deed cancer is the most effective way to play this game pvp wise, but that doesn't mean that it's the best FOR the game

 

how are you supposed to find them if they won't go out in the first place because of more game mechanics preventions of just that, them roaming, assuming we take this to the extreme and announce with an orange message when everyone leaves deed with a live map of their coordinates, do you think that would increase the amount of people roaming, or up the amount of deaths per day?

 

jk/bl/mr used rare/supreme boats plenty of times, guess where their boats are now? in our boatcave, see first answer

 

 

supreme/rare doesnt add max speed but it still counts as one passenger per.  So 5 people in a supreme sailboat have to lose 3 people in order to go slower than max speed, but as long as they kill just one person in a not rare sailboat they can sail away np having lost up to two, which encourages using heal while safe because boat speed controls the fight assuming both sides know what they're doing, if the other side can't heal up, then it's pretty obvious the direction it's heading.  i don't recall mr losing many if any rare/supreme boats, unless raiding and taking an unused boat counts.  if they did nothing for boats then no one would use something fancy looking that there is no point risking losing

 

deed spam is bad I agree, I'm certainly not interested in building I hate it but I don't think epic has it too bad, for a long time mr only had 2 "pvp" oriented deeds and it was just for landbridges because we're forced to use landbridges with this map, there are/were other deeds but just people living by themselves/traders and most quit anyway.  seems more mostly a problem with chaos and long time bugged tower influences

 

don't forget nolo only really got spammed after everyone got locate and nolo.  beforehand when it was just fo/lib with nolo and vyn with locate, people were able to use locate to find and trap people, certainly was a lot more death tabs pre-everyone nolod than after.  like if we see jk or rome getting religion favor on mrh, unless they pop a reasonable person's local theres no way to even know where they are, or if they run away you don't know where they went.  if people can locate them, then there will probably be more fights, and if they didn't want to be found then they didn't want to pvp I guess

 

I don't see any of the changes killing pvp servers more, but it's worth testing them out at minimum however late they may be, if they prove to kill things then revert, they're not really "major"

 

Edit:

Quote

or example, as a response to the new game mechanics of underwater building, mrh mass-built walls all over their canals and built gatehouses every 15 tiles on their server

 

that was dumb and no one that has interest in pvp wanted any of it, there arent really many water gates like 3? and those dumb gatehouses are still not even locked and mostly decayed

Edited July 18, 2016 by MrGARY

[changer 459]

38 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

supreme/rare doesnt add max speed but it still counts as one passenger per.  So 5 people in a supreme sailboat have to lose 3 people in order to go slower than max speed, but as long as they kill just one person in a not rare sailboat they can sail away np having lost up to two, which encourages using heal while safe because boat speed controls the fight assuming both sides know what they're doing, if the other side can't heal up, then it's pretty obvious the direction it's heading.  i don't recall mr losing many if any rare/supreme boats, unless raiding and taking an unused boat counts.  if they did nothing for boats then no one would use something fancy looking that there is no point risking losing

 

deed spam is bad I agree, I'm certainly not interested in building I hate it but I don't think epic has it too bad, for a long time mr only had 2 "pvp" oriented deeds and it was just for landbridges because we're forced to use landbridges with this map, there are/were other deeds but just people living by themselves/traders and most quit anyway.  seems more mostly a problem with chaos and long time bugged tower influences

 

don't forget nolo only really got spammed after everyone got locate and nolo.  beforehand when it was just fo/lib with nolo and vyn with locate, people were able to use locate to find and trap people, certainly was a lot more death tabs pre-everyone nolod than after.  like if we see jk or rome getting religion favor on mrh, unless they pop a reasonable person's local theres no way to even know where they are, or if they run away you don't know where they went.  if people can locate them, then there will probably be more fights, and if they didn't want to be found then they didn't want to pvp I guess

 

I don't see any of the changes killing pvp servers more, but it's worth testing them out at minimum however late they may be, if they prove to kill things then revert, they're not really "major"

 

yes supreme/rare boats helps in fights, but if they don't do anything then might aswell remove the entire rarity system, it's rng instead of pure character skill, and in the end you'll most likely die anyways if the enemy knows how to properly maneuver with the wind and cuts you off assuming they know their ###### and targetted the key captain/key fo player first

 

it's not that epic or pvp means deed cancer, it's just that the current maps size and character really promotes deed cancer, it happened on the old map too but it wasn't as important then as there were way less strategic points to cut people off from, and alot of it was blocked off by hota anyways

 

correlation isn't causation, streamlining every priest into becoming one big mess of different priest abilities was a bad decision, player gods was an even worse decision, what creates pvp though is aggression, and the more incentives there is to go out and make ###### happen, the more pvp there will be, and it's not about being found, it's about killing players, generally when you're out doing stuff you're in smaller groups in deep enemy territory, that's not a situation where you want to be found by an enemy which knows your numbers through local / ./who tracking / general metagaming.

 

 putting yourself at a great disadvantage to get pvp isn't a smart thing to do unless you've got a trap set up

(which is hard and time consuming to do in enemy territory/on an enemy server as it's very easy to look at the population logins/crosses and assume a general amount of enemy players) so the dumb/careless players will eventually run out of gear and/or will quit, and the smart players won't enter that situation in the first place, and it isn't a good incentive to put yourself at a disadvantage in order to be aggressive, as there will be less aggression which means less pvp then

 

 

thinking about it now, wurm pvp is bretty much like ancient warfare, even when you've got what seems to be two equally sized armies while looking from outside, you generally don't engage, which especially on old elevation maybe every 1/10 encounter with 2 big groups did a fight happen, otherwise you're just staring at eachother trying to outmaneuver/find weak spots to exploit, every experienced pvper knows that there's alot of uncertainty and doubt as you're within engagement range of an enemy which size or range or strength of the group is unknown as there's alot of loot and items, epeen, and other things at stake, so if you know the exact strength of the enemy group, you know 100% when to run and when to fight, just as they do, so it'll forever be a cat-mouse game of running and chasing.

 

 + lots of metagaming mechanics which kills the ability for maneuvering/positioning/general tactics/strategies to be efficient there's an even worse chance for pvp as both sides know everything about eachother and their positioning which means they'll position themselves accordingly to not get caught out either combined with the size of the local + the speed of hellhorses, sometimes cutting people off isn't even enough to get kills as you could miss the 2-3 arrows that it takes for them to blaze through your entire local from south to north

 

t b h if the team put more emphasis on the aggression principle and change the mechanics to give the players freedom to outplay eachother, there might be some hope afterall, but these mechanics which only promotes stagnation which they've been implementing has only put more holes in the already damaged ship

Edited July 18, 2016 by changer

[Alexgopen 2,376]

4 minutes ago, changer said:

 

yes supreme/rare boats helps in fights, but if they don't do anything then might aswell remove the entire rarity system, it's rng instead of pure character skill, and in the end you'll most likely die anyways if the enemy knows how to properly maneuver with the wind and cuts you off assuming they know their ###### and targetted the key captain/key fo player first

 

it's not that epic or pvp means deed cancer, it's just that the current maps size and character really promotes deed cancer, it happened on the old map too but it wasn't as important then as there were way less strategic points to cut people off from, old ele was so much better without all this landbridge bs that inevitably devolves into wall spam and alot of it was blocked off by hota anyways

 

correlation isn't causation, streamlining every priest into becoming one big mess of different priest abilities was a bad decision, agreed, libila is pretty much useless now especially because it lacks useful heals, and because the offensive abilities that used to be libila exclusive are now pretty much universal among player gods.  not even Lorenamontana the prophet of Libila is a lib priest anymore player gods was an even worse decision, what creates pvp though is aggression, and the more incentives there is to go out and make ###### happen, the more pvp there will be, and it's not about being found, it's about killing players, generally when you're out doing stuff you're in smaller groups in deep enemy territory, that's not a situation where you want to be found by an enemy which knows your numbers through local / ./who tracking / general metagaming.

 

 putting yourself at a great disadvantage to get pvp isn't a smart thing to do unless you've got a trap set up

(which is hard and time consuming to do in enemy territory/on an enemy server as it's very easy to look at the population logins/crosses and assume a general amount of enemy players) so the dumb/careless players will eventually run out of gear and/or will quit, and the smart players won't enter that situation in the first place, and it isn't a good incentive to put yourself at a disadvantage in order to be aggressive, as there will be less aggression which means less pvp then

 

[Klaa 4,872]

GAME OVER, MAN!!!

 

GAME OVER!!!

[Alexgopen 2,376]

Epic is equally as empty as the login server in terms of tiles per player. Each player could have their own Golden Valley sized plot of land if they held hands and divided it up fairly.

 

 

Player Density Report for server date: Jul 19, 2016

	Players	Tiles	Tiles per Player (rounded)
Golden Valley	1/300	1,048,576	1,048,576
Chaos	56/800	16,777,216	299,593
Independence	89/800	16,777,216	188,508
Deliverance	44/400	4,194,304	95,325
Exodus	30/800	4,194,304	139,810
Celebration	27/400	4,194,304	155,345
Pristine	39/400	4,194,304	107,546
Release	34/400	4,194,304	123,362
Xanadu	163/800	67,108,864	411,711
Epic Cluster	28/1600	29,360,128	1,048,576
Total	551/6700	152,043,520	275,941

 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Alexgopen

[Namekat 1,753]

You uhh know you can just leave the water and go around all dem gates right?

[Namekat 1,753]

REACH FOR THE STARS

TRY NEW THINGS

YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU PUT YOUR MIND TO

I BELIEVE IN YOU

#STRONG #POWERUL

[Propheteer 7,139]

18 minutes ago, Namekat said:

You uhh know you can just leave the water and go around all dem gates right?

if only mr knew how to get through or around gates, they mightve left deed before the server died

[Oscarius 122]

1 minute ago, Propheteer said:

if only mr knew how to get through or around gates, they mightve left deed before the server died

Just a broken record stuck in the same old track.. Plz do us all a favour and move along... Why you even here? This game is dead.. haven't you heard?

[Namekat 1,753]

3 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

if only mr knew how to get through or around gates, they mightve left deed before the server died

If only people could commit to projects longer than the time it takes to order a pizza. I'd probably have a lot of pizza to eat.

[Propheteer 7,139]

8 minutes ago, Oscarius said:

Just a broken record stuck in the same old track.. Plz do us all a favour and move along... Why you even here? This game is dead.. haven't you heard?

 

does the fact you never pvp on a pvp server trigger you?

[Alexgopen 2,376]

you guys make boring arguments

[enoofu 206]

Don't blame the ePic players for leaving as they basically were the test server that usually get's bugged do to freedom changes 

 

Plus combat overhaul that was promised 3-4 years ago and a combat system and GUI that feels like it comes from a DOS/Amiga/Apple II Game 

Edited July 19, 2016 by enoofu

[CubeManV2 231]

4 hours ago, enoofu said:

Don't blame the ePic players for leaving as they basically were the test server that usually get's bugged do to freedom changes 

 

Plus combat overhaul that was promised 3-4 years ago and a combat system and GUI that feels like it comes from a DOS/Amiga/Apple II Game 

 

ur triggering me right now

[Pinchaloaf 341]

6 hours ago, Namekat said:

If only people could commit to projects longer than the time it takes to order a pizza. I'd probably have a lot of pizza to eat.

 

A lot of people already dealt with years of that type of gameplay near Valhalla on the Wild server. It sucked then, and it sucks still. Can't blame them for leaving a server that was basically more of the same ###### they left 3-4 years before.

 

I spent a few hours at the landbridge pew pewing and said, "I must be insane to think this is fun". I left, went back to deed, logged out, and haven't been back in game since then. The tactics of old returning on a fresh map was the perfect cap to a long list of horrible crap to go down on the PvP servers.

[CubeManV2 231]

push wars is what always ignites PVP in Wurm and is fundamental considering this game is land based.

 

- Kingdom A Pushes

- Kingdom B Eventually puts up a front line

- Kingdom A either puts up a front line or gives up

(Optional)

- Kingdom C brokers a deal with Kingdom A or B to help.

 

Waterworks Vs Thunderdome, Vahalla vs Pizza, Eagles Nest vs BL, JK taking of Dark Citiadel. I can speak for all of these and two i ignited myself.

 

Waterworks Vs Thunderdome was MR's first land push and led to the disband of Riverdale. I honestly think this was around the prime-time of wurm PVP where you could have 20+ people on each side nearly daily if someone dared started something on that landbridge. Vahalla vs Pizza was a shitfest of kingdom memes and greifing. 

 

Eagles Nest push took a bit but BL finally stepped up and said stop, and we had decent PVP for a few weeks. Dark Citadel? BL at the time just let us take the islands with no problem. Then again its pretty easy when you have a GM to teleport all your items off deed. 

 

 

[changer 459]

14 hours ago, Namekat said:

 If only people could commit to projects longer than the time it takes to order a pizza. I'd probably have a lot of pizza to eat.

pls, not pvping for a full year isn't a project, and you're welcome to jump in to rome anytime, it's just gates right

 

also cubeman pls, ###### deed cancer, it didn't happen on old ele, and it's not even pvp

[Namekat 1,753]

Just now, changer said:

pls, not pvping for a full year isn't a project, and you're welcome to jump in to rome anytime, it's just gates right

 

also cubeman pls, ###### deed cancer, it didn't happen on old ele, and it's not even pvp

Some of my pizza was moved outside so I have to go find it.

[CubeManV2 231]

1 hour ago, changer said:

pls, not pvping for a full year isn't a project, and you're welcome to jump in to rome anytime, it's just gates right

 

also cubeman pls, ###### deed cancer, it didn't happen on old ele, and it's not even pvp

 

the only notable thing to ever happen on old ele was when everyone grouped up to raid the mongols. The problem with elevation is everyone was set for map resets or other ###### that no one wanted to do massive land pushes. If all you want to do is right click and hit attack and you consider that PVP i've got this fun game for you called runescape

[changer 459]

27 minutes ago, CubeManV2 said:

 

the only notable thing to ever happen on old ele was when everyone grouped up to raid the mongols. The problem with elevation is everyone was set for map resets or other ###### that no one wanted to do massive land pushes. If all you want to do is right click and hit attack and you consider that PVP i've got this fun game for you called runescape

if you consider catapulting/digging/mining for 48 hours straight fun pvp as the defenders of the wardeed has already snuck or teleported out then go play current chaos and see what it's about, i wouldn't even put the avarga raid in the top 10 of epic events as it was just a bunch of unorganized and unexperienced plebs vs what was then the most organized and experienced kingdom with a few decent players

 

it's essentially this

 

vs this

 

where the first video was what epic was about, while this video is what chaos aka the ultimate deed cancer is about, if i had to choose between where i'd want to be in these videos i'd much rather pick the top which with no doubt most actual pvpers would agree with as the only exciting thing about raiding is the loot and the occasional kill of someone logging in, and even then there won't be any loot in war deeds which means it's just a few days spent on mindlessly pressing the same digging/catapulting buttons over and over for some virtual land

Edited July 19, 2016 by changer

[CubeManV2 231]

 

32 minutes ago, changer said:

if you consider catapulting/digging/mining for 48 hours straight fun pvp as the defenders of the wardeed has already snuck or teleported out then go play current chaos and see what it's about, i wouldn't even put the avarga raid in the top 10 of epic events as it was just a bunch of unorganized and unexperienced plebs vs what was then the most organized and experienced kingdom with a few decent players

 

it's essentially this

 

vs this

 

where the first video was what epic was about, while this video is what chaos aka the ultimate deed cancer is about, if i had to choose between where i'd want to be in these videos i'd much rather pick the top which with no doubt most actual pvpers would agree with as the only exciting thing about raiding is the loot and the occasional kill of someone logging in, and even then there won't be any loot in war deeds which means it's just a few days spent on mindlessly pressing the same digging/catapulting buttons over and over for some virtual land

 

Who said im talking about current chaos, this entire game is cancer. I was referencing old chaos. Old Epic was fun but there was no long term goals. Just show up to hota, kill people and go home.

 

Edit: Every fight i mentioned on Chaos was pre all the 48 hour ###### raids. You could be in and out of a main village in a night.

Edited July 19, 2016 by CubeManV2