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JockII

The Decline Continues

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8 minutes ago, Kegan said:

As far as reducing the premium i don't think that would help at all. It might make it so that the players that are playing now can have more alts but i don't think it would bring in NEW players. 

Wurm has set itself as a high prem cost game, thus it has to compete with all the other high cost prem games. (iow "the best" on the market)

Cheaper monthly costing games has a much broader audience that can join up and play.

Lowering the prices makes it easier to gather the less wealthy players into the game.

Like facepunch invasions and bored game groups wanting to try something new, etc.

Past the point of joining and trying it out, the monthly cost isnt enough to KEEP those new players and the game itself has to be good enough.

But lowered prem cost would make it easier to get more players to try (or come back to and check the game).

But ofcourse, then you need to factor in the monetary losses of the prem cuts on the excisting playerbase.

But then again, the deeds still cost the same, its just the prems that change, thus a lot of the income remains the same.

 

However doing a steam launch at this point in time will probably not benefit much and steam would take a big chunk of the cash from it.

 

The problem is though... With too few players the game doesnt feel alive and the remaining population will vanish due to the "ghost town" effect.

Edited by Zekezor
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18 minutes ago, enoofu said:

Steam isn't free, as they would take a portion of the subs, and coin bought,around 30% of it

 

Also a lot of the player decline is caused by a lack of expansions lately, and not testing Xanu and bridges heavily before making them live.

Plus a lot of coin was removed from the game by the Traders nerfs which made it harder to play for free, as a lot of Subs were generated by this.

 

no? that is not how it works? subscriptions are completely independent and separate from steam, steam only takes an initial 30% from BUYING the game, all subscription purchases made are done outside of steam

 

NO SUBSCRIPTION BASED GAME DOES THIS ON STEAM (save for like very few that do as an alternative)

 

please its almost like nobody here has any idea what they're talking about

Edited by Huntar

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It seems pretty simple to me. 

 

To attract more players you need to lessen the skill grind in Wurm Online (whether you like it or not)

 

The fact is that the vast majority of the gaming population won't play Wurm if they consistently fail to make stuff at the beginning so any new players will either give up or look at Wurm Unlimited where they can take their pick of the different skill level multipliers.

 

This is starving Wurm Online of potential new players - only the harder core skill grinders will put up with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Senitor

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26 minutes ago, Senitor said:

It seems pretty simple to me. 

 

To attract more players you need to lessen the skill grind in Wurm Online (whether you like it or not)

 

The fact is that the vast majority of the gaming population won't play Wurm if they consistently fail to make stuff at the beginning so any new players will either give up or look at Wurm Unlimited where they can take their pick of the different skill level multipliers.

 

This is starving Wurm Online of potential new players - only the harder core skill grinders will put up with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

don't see the problem with skill gain or skill in general, in general the people that grinds the most tends to be some of the worst pvpers, on freedom it doesn't matter because there's no direct competition or goal so it's up to the player what he wants to do

 

watering down games is the best way to ruin games

Edited by changer

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Well you have to admit it took me all day my first day to make a cart and i played for hours that day. 

 

Edit: I played all day making a large cart and putting a lock on it then loaded it down with logs so no one could drag it and called it a night. I woke up the next day and set out with my valuable stuff like 1ql iron and logs to find a place to build my house.  I went out dragging my cart at 5-6 km/h (another suggestion to improve the speed i already made) only to be killed out in the woods and lost my cart. I logged out and did not come back for about a week . When i was making my second cart i seen a chat asking to hire diggers and if it was not for taking that job and joining their deed i would probably have died again and quit for good.  

Edited by Kegan
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9 minutes ago, changer said:

don't see the problem with skill gain or skill in general, in general the people that grinds the most tends to be some of the worst pvpers, on freedom it doesn't matter because there's no direct competition or goal so it's up to the player what he wants to do

 

watering down games is the best way to ruin games

 

Really? 

 

Try creating a new WO account and see how long it takes you to make even a simple 1x1 house, and how many times you fail making planks, how long it takes you to find iron ore to make nails, and how many times you die trying. 

 

I personally like that about Wurm, but 99% of the gaming population simply won't do that.

Edited by Senitor
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33 minutes ago, Senitor said:

It seems pretty simple to me. 

 

To attract more players you need to lessen the skill grind in Wurm Online (whether you like it or not)

 

The fact is that the vast majority of the gaming population won't play Wurm if they consistently fail to make stuff at the beginning so any new players will either give up or look at Wurm Unlimited where they can take their pick of the different skill level multipliers.

 

This is starving Wurm Online of potential new players - only the harder core skill grinders will put up with it.

 

grind is fine, chance to create things at lower levels needs to be made easier though so new players won't have to struggle for hours to create enough planks/nails for their first 1x1 shack etc

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2 minutes ago, Worksock said:

grind is fine, chance to create things at lower levels needs to be made easier though so new players won't have to struggle for hours to create enough planks/nails for their first 1x1 shack etc

 

Agreed

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6 hours ago, Niki said:

getting people to play wurm is simple, release wurm online on steam with a promotional bundle pack (clever new item maybe) also use steam for the subscription system

 

bam, you can thank me later.

 

I'd pay good money also if you made a cosmetic shop, look at the Plumed helmet on auctions, really just hire me as a marketer ;)

 

hint: I'd accept sleep powder.

Maybe it's just me, but your steam idea isn't your own and it's an awful idea to have them host the subscription model.  Steam is a bit too big for WO.  Advertising is great, but moving to a hub probably not so much.  Just my opinion.  You won't be getting paid for your lack of work 

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2 hours ago, shakys said:

There's never a overnight miracle cure in any business, I'm happy with the game overall its constantly releasing updates and new features.

In regards to premium you get a'lot for your money, its only 6.67 euros a month if your paying it yearly. and its not really that hard to earn your premium just from playing.

Between myself and my kids there's seven premium accounts, it maybe adds up but its still my choice we could easily just play on one or two accounts.

"yearly" being the key here. It turns out a lot of people, especially new players, aren't that fond of dropping over a hundred bucks on a game in one go.

 

and it is hard to earn premium just from playing, it is slaving away your time for a scrap amount of coins, to a point at which spending that time to work in real life makes a lot of more sense. Thats not good, considering that its a game thats you know, supposed to be played.

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Agreed Jock, it really makes me sad. I played/AFKed this game for 300+ days and used to love the random chit chat with people from this community. Im losing faith more and more every day.

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14 minutes ago, Elktazahjr said:

"yearly" being the key here. It turns out a lot of people, especially new players, aren't that fond of dropping over a hundred bucks on a game in one go.

 

and it is hard to earn premium just from playing, it is slaving away your time for a scrap amount of coins, to a point at which spending that time to work in real life makes a lot of more sense. Thats not good, considering that its a game thats you know, supposed to be played.

Odd observation.  I have several new players (new accounts) in my alliance.  They all bought premium outright and extra silver.  I helped them find plots and measure space for their deed.  They play daily and love it.  I guess it really just depends on the people you play with.

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3 minutes ago, LorenaMontana said:

Agreed Jock, it really makes me sad. I played/AFKed this game for 300+ days and used to love the random chit chat with people from this community. Im losing faith more and more every day.

Come play on Independence in my alliance mate.

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2 hours ago, Huntar said:

 

no? that is not how it works? subscriptions are completely independent and separate from steam, steam only takes an initial 30% from BUYING the game, all subscription purchases made are done outside of steam

 

NO SUBSCRIPTION BASED GAME DOES THIS ON STEAM (save for like very few that do as an alternative)

 

please its almost like nobody here has any idea what they're talking about

Seen lots of posts from Developers that stated all micro-transactions ingame from Steam accounts, they have to give a % back to steam

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6 minutes ago, enoofu said:

Seen lots of posts from Developers that stated all micro-transactions ingame from Steam accounts, they have to give a % back to steam

Yep, thats why games like eve online offers a one-time-purchase prem subscription pack to start them out (hint hint: It's for exposure, PR, etc), yet further purchases are done on their own separate site.

And if its done right steam gets minimal ammount of cuts from the devs, yet the devs get lots of exposure.

The simple fact a friend is showing up as playing "Wurm Online" on steam makes their friends ask em "Whats wurm online?" etc.

It's just a shame they did it for WU instead of the real game....

Edited by Zekezor

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Wurm has several problems that we all realize, the premium pricing for one toon isn't bad, its a bit screwed for people that play multiple toons.

If you had a discount for all 5 toons on one email or just discounts starting with 2 or more toons that would be huge.

I stopped paying for more then one at a time after the trader nerf. but seriously the bigger issues IMHO are as follows....

 

1= Deed up keep and decay, either lower the cost or remove decay on deed if you have over 30 days in the coffers.

2= Way to many servers, with the population this small and spread out, every server feels empty. If you like being a hermit and isolated go play on WU you can have a whole server to yourself.

3= Deities and Religion need to start over really it's completely BROKEN BEYOND REPAIR !

 

But this is just my two irons on the matter :) 

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If they are already on steam and can get the game without subscription then the chances are they are going to go for WU anyway. If they see/play WU and then want to come try WO then they can do that for free too so i dont think adding WO to steam is going to do anything for the game..tbh

 

 

Edited by Kegan

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9 minutes ago, Edzwarr said:

1= Deed up keep and decay, either lower the cost or remove decay on deed if you have over 30 days in the coffers.

2= Way to many servers, with the population this small and spread out, every server feels empty. If you like being a hermit and isolated go play on WU you can have a whole server to yourself.

3= Deities and Religion need to start over really it's completely BROKEN BEYOND REPAIR !

1= if 1s a month is too expensive then perhaps its not the cost thats the problem, yes larger deeds need more but really, people having large deeds and tons of alts claiming that the game forces it just want to lower their own costs, prem cost doesnt get new prem buyers, just appeases those who whinge about the current amounts.

 

2= so servers should shut down? which ones? yours? Or is this "less servers that I dont have any interest in"

 

3= OMG the game forces you to buy tons of alts, 1 priest now covers 2 if not 3 of them in pve "omg its so broken"

 

Once again the "ideas" and complaints are from people who want to improve their own experience, not focus on getting new players. (like those who blame decay, upkeep, high skill grinding, dragon drama as all reasons new players dont stick around)

 

This isnt complaining about Wurm declining, this is air your own gripes about the game and act as though your concerns are the major concerns the game is facing, when the fact is the game needs to be easier for new players, and needs to be more intuitive.

 

Funnily enough, Wurm players tend to hold tight to their whole "I got wurm" thing, they dont want the new player experience easier, because they toughed it out and are proud of being this niche that wurm appeals to (iron rock and newbie rope anyone?)

 

TL;DR 

prices arent the issue, little gripes you have arent the issue, new player experience is the issue

Edited by SeeD
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While the attempt to monetise Skyrim mods caused a lot of anger, that's not what I'm referring to, and isn't relevant to this discussion.  I'm referring to the requirement that you have Steam to play Skyrim, which was a new thing (Oblivion didn't require it), which caused some irritation.  There are a number of people who, for whatever reason, prefer not to play their games through Steam.  Hence my point that making Steam and absolute requirement would be a mistake.

 

Offering it as an option on Steam might work, assuming the costs etc. work out, so long as it's only one of several options.

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Ingame business between players has to be improved.

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24 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Yep, thats why games like eve online offers a one-time-purchase prem subscription pack to start them out (hint hint: It's for exposure, PR, etc), yet further purchases are done on their own separate site.

And if its done right steam gets minimal ammount of cuts from the devs, yet the devs get lots of exposure.

The simple fact a friend is showing up as playing "Wurm Online" on steam makes their friends ask em "Whats wurm online?" etc.

It's just a shame they did it for WU instead of the real game....

shame they didn't atleast give a month free prem for WO at purchase of WU so that there's atleast some turnover rate from wu to wo

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Lot of people here suggesting things with one major issue.

You're still playing the game, so anything you suggest comes with an automatic "not having this isn't enough to have made me leave" footnote.

I've gone and done the sensible thing of asking people who quit (who I'm still in contact with) why they did so. In lieu of their names, I'll be putting in their highest skill.

 

But first, an interesting other observation: Losing players isn't the only way that graph's been going down. People have been consolidating priests into one - Nahjo. Thus, this graph may be more dramatic than first seems.

 

Shipbuilder: "Real life came up" (nothing really can be done there I think)

Weaponsmith: "No real reason to continue. I get another 5 weaponsmithing levels and, what, I can make weapons higher quality? If 70 weaponsmithing let me make some new weapon types, I'd have a reason to do it" "What, like being able to use different weapon materials, give steel a proper benefit?" "Or better axes."

 

I implore people to really start digging into "why people left" rather than "what I want". What you want is still, no doubt, important - but Wurm will need to bail water before you can get a hammock.

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I agree with the WS, more skill requirements for items would be awesome, or perhaps longer/one time creation things, rather than the ability to spam out content, simply create goals.

 

New building types for higher skill (similar to masonry, 60+ for marble or 40+carp for a new carp type.

New tools and weapons requiring higher skills

More vanity items to strive towards.

 

You cant keep someone interested for the rest of their life, you cant force new players to stick around, but what can be done is looking at WHAT stops new players from sticking with the game, and what causes established players to quit. And not the bitter established players that quit and yet hang out on the forums every day to comment on how glad they are they quit

 

i bet you, the majority wont even mention premium costs.

Edited by SeeD
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Make the first 500 tiles of a deed (25x20ish) free to subscribers for the sake of planting it.  1s a month can be foraged easily enough, would get people to grow attached to a piece of land enough to keep subbing.  Maybe limit that offer to certain dead sparsely populated servers like Xanadu.

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12 minutes ago, SeeD said:

i bet you, the majority wont even mention premium costs.

Ofcourse they wont mention prem costs.

Premium costs is a thing that made never players never start up the game in the first place.

People who worry about prem costs generally wont test the game at all to begin with if they believe its too high.

Prem costs have little to do with retention, but rather the influx of new people.

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