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Ramaraunt

Remove Player Gods

Remove Player Gods?  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Player Gods Be Removed?



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4 hours ago, Slickshot said:

The system was screwed basically when player deities were entered into the game?

Did you even read his post. The priests may have been slightly unbalanced in some people's point of view (not in mine), but now they are super unbalanced to the point that it is ridiculous.

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Back to the poll we go, my mistake, it was not about change, it is about removal of the gods, thus the poles show the majority do not wish the gods to be removed. (47 against and only 24 for)

 

No matter how much you prattle on about your findings, the majority, which is a very small portion of the community are against the removal of player gods.

 

This thread needs to be closed.

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4 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

This thread needs to be closed.

That's a pretty twisted way of looking at things. If the community is literally in uproar about something, I don't think closing a thread about it helps. Before you know it, another thread will appear about the same topic.

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13 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Back to the poll we go, my mistake, it was not about change, it is about removal of the gods, thus the poles show the majority do not wish the gods to be removed. (47 against and only 24 for)

 

No matter how much you prattle on about your findings, the majority, which is a very small portion of the community are against the removal of player gods.

 

This thread needs to be closed.

 

Polls show 71 people voted, this doesn't count for much. As stated earlier, removing them now would anger a lot of players and I real doubt these would be removed. There are 3 opinions here 1) those who have the new priests and love them 2) Those who have old Fo and Mags and are salty. 3) Those who dislike it for Black issues...oh and 4) The majority that don't even vote.

Edited by Milosanx

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9 minutes ago, Milosanx said:

 

 As stated earlier, removing them now would anger a lot of players and I real doubt these would be removed. 

 

You are concerned about people getting angry over the gods being removed, but yet you aren't concerned about the people angry about the original gods being useless, calling them "salty". What kind of twisted mindset is that?

 

I think Rolf will have more problems on his hands if he leaves the gods the way they are. Not only are they imbalanced, but they basically killed PVP. The game is dying, and leaving the gods the way they are wont help things. Something has to be done.

 

I joined affliction today, thinking I might have some fun. I was greeted by an old Wurm veteran. I asked him how things are going, and he told me "I'm enjoying the last days of Epic..." It really will be the last days of Epic if these gods aren't fixed! The decline is blatantly obvious. Though a lot of it is because of Wurm Unlimited, a lot of it is also because of the gods ruining the game. Just look at the skirmishes threads, and how pathetic they look compared to the way they used to be.

 

At the very least get rid of the BL spells for WL gods. This would fix some of the most basic of imbalances caused by new gods. Even better, would be to balance the spells the gods have manually instead of relying on random generation. Giving the new gods unique spells would make the game more interesting as well.

 

The new gods could be an awesome thing for Wurm, but they were implemented lazily. I wouldn't have a problem with the gods if they were balanced.

Edited by Ramaraunt

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Because it can't be repeated enough:

27% of people here want the gods changed and 46% want them removed altogether. No matter how you spin it, that's a combined 73% who are in some way unhappy with the current system. It's funny that people see that 73:27 ratio and think "well, if you account for people who don't use the forum and add the standard ±50% margin of error, it's really kind of a wash." Who knew there were so many politicians in the Wurm community?

 

And do you see them shouting "close this thread! Close it right now!" toward any of the other suggestion topics that they disagree with? People with a vested interest are trying to sweep this under the rug in the hopes that we'll all somehow forget about it.
 

But it's going to be hard to do that. Paaweelr will be a god soon, the Valrei map will increasingly start to look like a crowded subway station, PvP balance will be further down the toilet, the PvE economy will stagnate some more, the last shreds of lore will be fully destroyed, and the game will become blander and blander all because a few people threw money at a brand new, untested, radically game-changing feature and expected it not to be rebalanced at any point in the future.

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17 minutes ago, Fawkes said:

But it's going to be hard to do that. Paaweelr will be a god soon, the Valrei map will increasingly start to look like a crowded subway station, PvP balance will be further down the toilet, the PvE economy will stagnate some more, the last shreds of lore will be fully destroyed, and the game will become blander and blander all because a few people threw money at a brand new, untested, radically game-changing feature and expected it not to be rebalanced at any point in the future.

 

Tosiek came to Paaweelr on Valrei so not sure if Paaweelr gonna survive this. http://strikelimit.co.uk/Valrei/

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1 hour ago, Fawkes said:

Because it can't be repeated enough:

27% of people here want the gods changed and 46% want them removed altogether. No matter how you spin it, that's a combined 73% who are in some way unhappy with the current system. It's funny that people see that 73:27 ratio and think "well, if you account for people who don't use the forum and add the standard ±50% margin of error, it's really kind of a wash." Who knew there were so many politicians in the Wurm community?

 

And do you see them shouting "close this thread! Close it right now!" toward any of the other suggestion topics that they disagree with? People with a vested interest are trying to sweep this under the rug in the hopes that we'll all somehow forget about it.
 

But it's going to be hard to do that. Paaweelr will be a god soon, the Valrei map will increasingly start to look like a crowded subway station, PvP balance will be further down the toilet, the PvE economy will stagnate some more, the last shreds of lore will be fully destroyed, and the game will become blander and blander all because a few people threw money at a brand new, untested, radically game-changing feature and expected it not to be rebalanced at any point in the future.

I've been using that same math this whole time, but apparently I'm wrong because some man's wife says I am.  Good luck on your side of the argument--may you not be flamed as I was. lol

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On 4/12/2016 at 7:25 AM, Fawkes said:

Mmm, love me some PvE vs. PvP baiting. Too bad that since Freedom makes up ~80% of the game's population, even if every single PvPer voted to change/remove the gods and we eliminated their opinions from the equation entirely, there'd still be 2/3 of Freedom who are unhappy with player gods.

 

Re-read my post... I just advocated against the complete removal on PvE as that's gonna cause quite the subscription bleed.

 

Changing them is "easy" enough with some basic code splitting, can do all the balancing necessary for PvP without pulling a bait n' switch on all the PvE folks who subscribed alts exclusively to priest them up.

 

Those gods likely can even be fully removed from PvP (your business, not mine) without killing them on PvE.  Of course if that happens, it would be nice if the Epic crowd thought about the loss of subscriptions BEFORE starting yet another #MakeEpicUniqueAgain line of nonsense.

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23 minutes ago, Ramaraunt said:

When fawkes agrees with me, you know its a big deal. :P

You seem to have this thing where you believe people are always agreeing specifically with you. lol  Perhaps they just share the same ideas at times? haha

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28 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

You seem to have this thing where you believe people are always agreeing specifically with you. lol  Perhaps they just share the same ideas at times? haha

Well, I also was the guy who originally came up with the idea to make chaos made up of pmks, and noone wants to give me credit for that either. Not that I really cate though, lol. All I care about is the game getting better so I can play again. 

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26 minutes ago, Ramaraunt said:

Well, I also was the guy who originally came up with the idea to make chaos made up of pmks, and noone wants to give me credit for that either. Not that I really cate though, lol. All I care about is the game getting better so I can play again. 

But how do you know you're the one who thought of it first?  

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1 minute ago, Slickshot said:

But how do you know you're the one who thought of it first?  

There was a thread where people were arguing what to do with chaos and I was the first to post that suggestion.

 

Meh who cares lets stay on topic :D

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Like I said before. They introduced messed up random crap. They were told very early on with the first player god that they were messed up random crap. They didn't seem to care. People invested time and money into them, even people who had been saying for months on end that it is messed up random crap. They didn't seem to care then either. Here it is how much longer later and it's still messed up random crap. People are still telling them. They don't seem to care. Balance should have been done before they let a piece of code select random gods but it wasn't. It should have been done when the first god emerged and people told them but it wasn't. I'm sure it will be now though. They have a perfect record of removing ###### years and even a decade later with "we never intended that" even though that's how they wrote it. EDIT: At our expense. Thanks for all the fish.

Edited by Audrel

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46 minutes ago, Audrel said:

Like I said before. They introduced messed up random crap. They were told very early on with the first player god that they were messed up random crap. They didn't seem to care. People invested time and money into them, even people who had been saying for months on end that it is messed up random crap. They didn't seem to care then either. Here it is how much longer later and it's still messed up random crap. People are still telling them. They don't seem to care. Balance should have been done before they let a piece of code select random gods but it wasn't. It should have been done when the first god emerged and people told them but it wasn't. I'm sure it will be now though. They have a perfect record of removing ###### years and even a decade later with "we never intended that" even though that's how they wrote it. EDIT: At our expense. Thanks for all the fish.

Resistance is futile.

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Just now, Slickshot said:

Resistance is futile.

 

So is being screwed. It doesn't cost you. So who cares, eh?

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This seems to be going around in a circle.  Could anyone offer why they are imbalanced as to PvP (a clear reason a PvEer could understand)?

 

I can put forward the PvE point simply :

 

Nahjo made mag priests obsolete for PvE and also drastically reduced the value of fo priests.

 

Nahjo has a huge advantage in the enchanting market due to their cheap sacc item making it a choice of "Nahjo, Vyn or useless".

 

The other player gods are not too bad, they don't seem to be popular at all on PvE and have had little-no market impact.

 

Why do they need changing?  They don't, the other priests (the ones rendered unplayable in PvE by this chance) could do with some buffs though OR a free conversion once no changes are confirmed.

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Yeah, Ether. It was a no brainer for a Mag. Sac locks to strongwall or sac corn to strongwall. Nahjo got smite and fireheart also. Maybe weak in PvP but not much is needed killing trolls. You can WoA your own picks. You can create dirt then feed your altar garlic. You make more dirt than you use garlic. Channeling pays for itself. Nahjo took a huge swath of Mag's abilities and spells. It can even cast RoS for the Vyns to get their sleep bonus. They gutted PvE Mag and wonder why people switched? It's not like we didn't tell them they killed Mag or anything. 

 

@Slickshot: Resistance is indeed futile. You can be a gimped Mag that costs many times more to run than a Nahjo that does the same things and more or you can have people demand you have your Nahjo removed which will probably happen either outright or by massive nerfs.

Edited by Audrel

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15 minutes ago, Ramaraunt said:

Being an avid Magranon follower, this makes me upset. 

I literally do not hire Nahjo priests if I can help it.  I had a guy do a 6s strongwall job recently--i bypassed the Nahjo priests that showed interest and went for the Mag instead.

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3 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

This seems to be going around in a circle.  Could anyone offer why they are imbalanced as to PvP (a clear reason a PvEer could understand)?

 

I can put forward the PvE point simply :

 

Nahjo made mag priests obsolete for PvE and also drastically reduced the value of fo priests.

 

Nahjo has a huge advantage in the enchanting market due to their cheap sacc item making it a choice of "Nahjo, Vyn or useless".

 

The other player gods are not too bad, they don't seem to be popular at all on PvE and have had little-no market impact.

 

Why do they need changing?  They don't, the other priests (the ones rendered unplayable in PvE by this chance) could do with some buffs though OR a free conversion once no changes are confirmed.

 

With player gods WL got access to almost the full set of all spells, and still retain full heal and oak shell as unique to WL only, two very important pvp spells.  Full heal is the only heal spell that you can use on a moving boat, and WL use this to great effect, while also being able to use many single target offensive spells via player gods.  Previously only BL had access to multiple single target offensive spells, but lacked good healing spells to make up for this.  Now WL have not only the single target spells, but also the healing spells.

 

Full heal allows tanky players to heal and stay alive with ease, and oakshell allows WL players to have their hellhorses going at full speed while also having protection better than barding.  BL players lack both of these abilities; they have no way of healing in boat battles, and their hellhorses must go slower wearing bardings if they are to have their horses as tanky as WL players.  The benefits of BL's spellset have been lost because they are now accessible by WL, while WL's best spells are still inaccessible to BL. 

 

When it comes down to choosing a god to priest as, the two obvious choices are fo and nathan.  Fo obviously is good for light of fo, full heal, and oakshell.  Nathan is good for the 25% damage boost, passive animals (allows your backup horse to be a hellhorse, and prevents being mobbed by creatures while in combat), 10% skillgain boost to help you in the long run, and a powerful spell set with many single target spells as well as ice pillar and zombie infestation for larger battles, wrath of mag for raiding, and single wound heal spells for saving your horse in battle.  Nathan not only has vast utility, but a very diverse and powerful spell set, with great passive benefits.

 

IOW: If you're going to do the sotg+full heal on a boat invincibility nonsense, go fo. Otherwise go nathan.  Every other priest is inferior in pvp.

 

This is what we mean when we say they have unbalanced pvp. They have voided all of the other choices, with the exception of fo still having a role. 

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3 hours ago, Slickshot said:

I literally do not hire Nahjo priests if I can help it.  I had a guy do a 6s strongwall job recently--i bypassed the Nahjo priests that showed interest and went for the Mag instead.

 

You don't need to crusade to remove Nahjo if you don't care to pay more to avoid using one. If you want to be a fool with principles, do it on your own dime.

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10 minutes ago, Audrel said:

 

You don't need to crusade to remove Nahjo if you don't care to pay more to avoid using one. If you want to be a fool with principles, do it on your own dime.

I didn't pay more.  I'm not foolish for having a preference.  I did this on my own dime.  Why does this hurt your feelings so much to provoke such a troll remark?

Edited by Slickshot

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6 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

I didn't pay more.  I'm not foolish for having a preference.  I did this on my own dime.  Why does this hurt your feelings so much to warrant you trying to insult me?

 

I guess you missed the point. The point is you have a choice to use or not to use something. But you insist that people who do use them must not because you personally don't like them. I see your posts in other threads. You are on a crusade of personal interest. YOU do not like them so they must go. Someone suggested changes to them and you bombed it down with "Where's the removal of them?"  Let's toss out a cliche that people love to use around here. "This is a sandbox." 

 

Well, that is until you go back and edit all of them after people respond to them.

Edited by Audrel

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