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Traveler777

Turrets KOS use on Freedom

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It would be nice to see the KOS have a little more "bite" to its use. I know that KOS is used sparingly...and for the most part rightfully so because there are people that get themselves put on someone elses KOS list. Of course there are the ones that sometimes the deed owner is a jerk too. Let the turrets have a 5-10 tiles area of effect on Freedom isle-paid deeds. People are paying for the deed and most of the time the offender is some higher level vet that "doesn't care" and offends the player anyway. Now you open a market of selling spells and carpentry and iron to create the turrets as well as having a better defense against those Vet players that think its funny to kill off all the deed owners Templars or Guard Tower guards that just want their coffee and sandwiches and not wind up dead anyway. Have a range limit or a 5 tile seperation between turrets too...Minimum 5 tiles inbetween like the 50 tile requirement for guard tower placement and a range of 10 tile shot range with maybe the use of the outer perimeter to mark the outer border of turrent range...that would increase Outer Perimeter importance to ..."you have now entered the outer perimeter range, you are on KOS and are currently withing range of any turret fire in effect!".

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I would much rather see the KOS system removed entirely. While I understand its purpose, it is either does nothing to those on KOS due to the skills of those on the list, or it is used as a griefing tool to block or harass those that don't have the ability to take on guards with ease. This suggestion would only make matters worse on either front. Based on that I'd have to say no.

-1

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I give this a +1.  While there is a possibility to grief players by putting anyone who comes around on KOS, more often it is a jerk player coming to grief a deed that will be stopped.  I myself have a large KOS list, but if you check the names you will find they are all jerk players, and most of them have either already quit the game or have been banned.  Overall, I'd like to see turrets be more than just a decoration on the PVE servers.  Too keep players from abusing it, you could limit the number of players a deed can have on KOS, say 50 or 100 max.

Edited by Vroomfondel
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11 hours ago, Shrimpiie said:

I would much rather see the KOS system removed entirely. While I understand its purpose, it is either does nothing to those on KOS due to the skills of those on the list, or it is used as a griefing tool to block or harass those that don't have the ability to take on guards with ease. This suggestion would only make matters worse on either front. Based on that I'd have to say no.

-1

Make a better counter argument please.  If you'd like to see it removed then please state how to replace it to balance the deficit.

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Holy geezus slickshot just disagreed with a staff member. Didnt know that was possible

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1 hour ago, Josh said:

Holy geezus slickshot just disagreed with a staff member. Didnt know that was possible

You learn something new every day eh?  Good on ya for paying attention. :)

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all kos is good for is griefing

 

anyone with fight skills is unaffected by a few templars, now if they hired out 50 of them, that is a different story, but mostly it only affects newbies

 

turrets are a joke

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4 hours ago, Slickshot said:

Make a better counter argument please.  If you'd like to see it removed then please state how to replace it to balance the deficit.

My counter argument is already solid, the mechanic as it is just needs to be removed because it accomplishes nothing, and I'm not quite sure why I'd be required to come up with a replacement if I wanted the original mechanic abolished. I put a lot more into my response already than the simple "-1" or "+1" that would suffice an opinion for any suggestion ;)

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24 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

My counter argument is already solid, the mechanic as it is just needs to be removed because it accomplishes nothing, and I'm not quite sure why I'd be required to come up with a replacement if I wanted the original mechanic abolished. I put a lot more into my response already than the simple "-1" or "+1" that would suffice an opinion for any suggestion ;)

I'll make this easier for you. ;)

 

KOS was designed to protect your deed from unbecoming characters, trolls, griefers, etc.  If you're suggesting it be removed because it's able to be used to counter-grief someone, then you could do well to present an idea for how to replace KOS with something that fulfills the same purpose.  What you have right now is this, "I don't like this feature.  In my mind it's a useless way to harass others, so get rid of it."  Cool opinion, but how about something more substantial?  What's to prevent any player from entering your local to grief you when KOS is gone?  Not just those high level fighters who can kill guards, but the lower level players with a bad attitude that want to ruin your projects and can't just dismantle guards in the process?

 

When you present a counter-balance to the hole that is left, then removing KOS would sound reasonable.  As for now; however, it is the only thing we have in place to serve the purpose of its inception.  Fill the void, and then remove KOS.  Care to construct something worthy of discussion?  I'm all eyes mate. ;)

Edited by Slickshot
Half-sorry for poking holes in a "solid" argument.

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The point I am trying to make currently is that KOS only accomplishes two things right now, A ) To grief other players my blocking them, preventing access to resources, or some other means to be rude or B ) A small obstacle for everyone else because they are easily capable of defeating guards. Regardless of what the original intentions were, it is not a mechanic that is able to live up to those intentions, and tweaking the guards to make them stronger or easier only beats half the problem at one time. Make guards stronger they are ever more the griefing tool, make them weaker and KOS doesn't do squat. I know from personal experience in responding to support calls, how often KOS is used only as a griefing mechanic, for a deed mayor to spite locals in the area just because they dislike them, NOT specifically to keep them offdeed. Furthermore, if a deed is secred properly there is nothing a person can do to grief the deed in the first place, and if that person is harassing into local, there is the .ignore feature to combat that. And if that player circumvents that feature via alternate accounts, then we step in as harassment. So no, the KOS feature carries out very little effect for its original purpose, and instead creates headaches across the board. A replacement for it, I don't feel there is a need for a replacement, see my above statements about deed securing and ignoring.

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40 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

The point I am trying to make currently is that KOS only accomplishes two things right now, A ) To grief other players my blocking them, preventing access to resources, or some other means to be rude or B ) A small obstacle for everyone else because they are easily capable of defeating guards. Regardless of what the original intentions were, it is not a mechanic that is able to live up to those intentions, and tweaking the guards to make them stronger or easier only beats half the problem at one time. Make guards stronger they are ever more the griefing tool, make them weaker and KOS doesn't do squat. I know from personal experience in responding to support calls, how often KOS is used only as a griefing mechanic, for a deed mayor to spite locals in the area just because they dislike them, NOT specifically to keep them offdeed. Furthermore, if a deed is secred properly there is nothing a person can do to grief the deed in the first place, and if that person is harassing into local, there is the .ignore feature to combat that. And if that player circumvents that feature via alternate accounts, then we step in as harassment. So no, the KOS feature carries out very little effect for its original purpose, and instead creates headaches across the board. A replacement for it, I don't feel there is a need for a replacement, see my above statements about deed securing and ignoring.

So would you say you're more of an advocate for swift and appropriate staff action to be taken in griefing incidents instead of having the KOS system fail as a deterrent?

Edited by Slickshot

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All you need to do is buff spirit guards. On pvp they are nothing but twitter informers - on pve nothing, but torch fillers. 

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5 hours ago, Slickshot said:

So would you say you're more of an advocate for swift and appropriate staff action to be taken in griefing incidents instead of having the KOS system fail as a deterrent?

Except that KOS isn't able to cover offdeed areas, which is where griefing would occur, provided the mayor secured their deed properly... And if offdeed griefing occurs we would still look into it and take action if needed.

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6 hours ago, Shrimpiie said:

... Furthermore, if a deed is secred properly there is nothing a person can do to grief the deed in the first place, ...

 

 

This is absolutely not true. People can put buildings right at the doorway of your deed, dig deep trenches all around you, build fences so you can't get around, try to set guards on your wild animals, etc. KoS should be strong enough to keep a person from being able to hang out and dig deep trenches or build walls, but not work on highways so if a person is minding their business and just getting around, then everything is as it should be. If they're just passing by down the road, fine; if they start digging in the perimeter, then the guards should be strong enough to kill them.

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6 hours ago, Slickshot said:

So would you say you're more of an advocate for swift and appropriate staff action to be taken in griefing incidents instead of having the KOS system fail as a deterrent?

 

Not gonna work. If the staff becomes enamored of the sociopath, then YOU suffer.

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26 minutes ago, LorraineJ said:

 

Not gonna work. If the staff becomes enamored of the sociopath, then YOU suffer.

I agree.  I'm all for a stronger KoS, but I also understand the ability to abuse it.  Ideally moderators would handle griefing cases swiftly with justice, but they are often under manned.  Sometimes a player gets away with griefing because they follow the technical letter of the law (while still breaking harassment rules but whatever) and most moderators won't step up to that situation.  Enki is the only GM I've met that handles griefing complaints thoroughly, but he's only one man and can't do it all.

 

Anyhow, ideally the moderation staff would deal with griefing to the fullest extent, but that either isn't possible or hasn't been yet, so we have KoS.  Until something better takes its place I think it's here to stay.

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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 10:33 PM, Traveler777 said:

I know that KOS is used sparingly...and for the most part rightfully so because there are people that get themselves put on someone elses KOS list

 

You are wrong here. There are no restrictions at all for putting anyone on KoS for any reason or whim, other than they are not locked within the deed tile confines when it goes off.

 

That aside, Spirit Templars are part of the KoS system and they must be paid for monthly, so even if Turrets were added to this KoS system Spirit Templars would still be required for them to work or else players would have less incentive to pay for them, thus they won't for this purpose.

 

Anyway, I agree with Shrimpiie that the KoS system should be removed on the PvE servers, as it is either abused as a revenge tactic or serves as an attempted player killer mechanism which doesn't belong on them. Players can already be walled out of deeds with gates set to just those that are wanted to enter if someone is that concerned.

 

Ideally there would be a system like an invisible wall such as Second Life has where you can set players names to just block them from stepping onto the deed. Probably a lot of work to code for Wurm though.

 

=Ayes=

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6 minutes ago, Ayes said:

 

You are wrong here. There are no restrictions at all for putting anyone on KoS for any reason or whim, other than they are not locked within the deed tile confines when it goes off.

 

That aside, Spirit Templars are part of the KoS system and they must be paid for monthly, so even if Turrets were added to this KoS system Spirit Templars would still be required for them to work or else players would have less incentive to pay for them, thus they won't for this purpose.

 

Anyway, I agree with Shrimpiie that the KoS system should be removed on the PvE servers, as it is either abused as a revenge tactic or serves as an attempted player killer mechanism which doesn't belong on them. Players can already be walled out of deeds with gates set to just those that are wanted to enter if someone is that concerned.

 

Ideally there would be a system like an invisible wall such as Second Life has where you can set players names to just block them from stepping onto the deed. Probably a lot of work to code for Wurm though.

 

=Ayes=

Just a slight correction.  You are restricted from putting someone on KoS if a highway is part of your deed.

 

Also, walling off your deed portion doesn't make people unable to grief your perimeter.  If you have a tower on deed then the guards will attack someone on your KoS list that steps into your perimeter and is near the guards (within 20 tiles of the tower?).  A player does not need access to your deed to grief you, and they do not --rightfully so-- need to step onto your deed to trigger the KoS order and warning, as crossing the perimeter will raise the alarm.  Just a clarification.

Edited by Slickshot

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Why couldn't KoS be on a timer system? If a person is just passing by, certainly that could be accomplished within say 30 seconds. With the slow pace of Wurm, most of the trouble a person could do is going to take quite some minutes. So if they're just passing through, everything is ok. If they start hanging around dumping or digging dirt, building fences, trying to kill your animals, etc., KoS should kick in with enough strength to kill them.

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On 3/31/2016 at 2:07 PM, Shrimpiie said:

My counter argument is already solid, the mechanic as it is just needs to be removed because it accomplishes nothing, and I'm not quite sure why I'd be required to come up with a replacement if I wanted the original mechanic abolished. I put a lot more into my response already than the simple "-1" or "+1" that would suffice an opinion for any suggestion ;)

KOS should make the GM's jobs easier with an initial.."Get off and Stay off my area"..because, I dont want you here and you lessen the enjoyment of my (Paid account and Paid Deed) gameplay. Besides KOS only pertains to the players deed that may not...sorry do not want other players around and to that end if they are going to have it..should have more bite to it than the newb player who is 11 years old that hasnt learned to respect other players possessions in game that have been hard earned. I would also note the difference between players who live on PVP vs. PVE servers...they may want less negative interactions with jerk players. So the good ones dont get on KOS. Either work with the KOS or make the deed tiles cheaper so you can cover more area cheaper...but then you get into the realm of people deeding over other peoples stuff...got to start somewhere.

Edited by Traveler777

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Yeah...I like what Shrimpiie said though...best thing to be would be make it a little more affordable to expand over the areas so you can secure it from griefers or make the deeds setup a tweekie more affordable. BUT ...still need to take out that perimeter area if you are butting two deeds up against eachother...2 least inner perimeters still = 10 tiles of problems and decay you dont want when next to a bud!.

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