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Retrograde

PvP changes refined

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10 hours ago, Wulfgarr said:

Hate is fine as it is. It is much easier to get the hate bonus then SoTG and if you nerf SotG and buff hate everyone will be Hate instead of SoTG meaning there will be thread about nerfing Hate. That is not balance. Additionally the only good thing except for suicide random teleport on the path of insanity is SoTG, all other abilities are a joke.

 

people will always prefer their own survival over more dmg dealing potential

if hate and insanity are both 25% permanent dmg reduction/more dmg dealt, any logical person would choose sotg because it increases their chances of survival and still counters the extra dmg that someone with path of hate does. Think 1st before implying anything, and that permanent path of hate ability would be at level 11 like path of insanity-sotg. 
And the previous dmg boost abilities will be replaced by something else.

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Honestly, if sotg is getting nerfed, base HP's need to become at least twice. Thrice would be too much. We all know how cool it feels with sotg and that we get to actually fight and not be someone who gets 1 hit and dies. Even if sotg is not nerfed, doubling the base health of players is a necessity caus right now.. 

 

lol like yesterday only i 3 hit a guy while 4 of his friends were attacking me and i was near a gatehop and fled after killing him 

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41 minutes ago, Hashirama said:

Honestly, if sotg is getting nerfed, base HP's need to become at least twice. Thrice would be too much. We all know how cool it feels with sotg and that we get to actually fight and not be someone who gets 1 hit and dies. Even if sotg is not nerfed, doubling the base health of players is a necessity caus right now.. 

 

lol like yesterday only i 3 hit a guy while 4 of his friends were attacking me and i was near a gatehop and fled after killing him 

this
it takes you hours to make armor, don't make it so that well grinded accounts that have been around for a long time with the only strike against them being "not sotg" are dying in seconds, lol.

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So just something I threw together to keep track of the missions done in friendly vs enemy areas. (Your free to double check my numbers I manually checked some to make sure they where being phrased correctly)

 

Mag since 24 Mar 2016 02:40:51 GMT when I pulled my first tweet that the api let me go back to has done 18 missions on a friendly server vs 2 on elevation and 3 on serenity.

 

All kingdoms combined on elevation have done less misson than all missions on each home server except affliction, they are way to easy for how rewarding they are you can just farm them since there is almost no risk in doing these on a friendly server.

 

I'm not saying remove it/rewards totally, but the balance needs to be much heavier for missions not on home servers like at least 3 times the scenario points/move timer that a home server gives to balance it out.

 

I'll update this in the coming days when I have pulled more missions.

 

048a4de474a09aa50c9c312857a19b25.png

(Side note: It's Passed/Failed not Passed/Total so if its 4/9 thats 4 missions passed 9 missions failed 13 total)

 

Edited by Darklords
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Most ele missions don't get done because it's a dumb monument in x corner of the map, do ritual on x pillar in a doored/reinforced mine, drain the capital of x kingdom, or cut a tree at some random deed deep in enemy land

 

like lol if elevation was the only way to get points, we're not going to go raid worldstar, or cut a tree north of rome, the same as it is for pretty much everyone else

 

If we want more elevation missions done, there needs to be more elevation missions that are reasonable

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4 hours ago, Hashirama said:

Honestly, if sotg is getting nerfed, base HP's need to become at least twice. Thrice would be too much. We all know how cool it feels with sotg and that we get to actually fight and not be someone who gets 1 hit and dies. Even if sotg is not nerfed, doubling the base health of players is a necessity caus right now.. 

 

lol like yesterday only i 3 hit a guy while 4 of his friends were attacking me and i was near a gatehop and fled after killing him 

 

That fight yesterday is also a clear example of why the "just be a pincushion" view that Retro mentioned on the last page is flawed.  When you came out of that mine you could get 2-3 swings and then pop back down into the mine before archers could get a shot off.  With a 2h axe and stacked buff/dmg bonuses you could have easily destroyed a non-SOTG/ < 50 body account just because of damage inflation.  Arrows won't pincushion a SOTG using a 2h with a non-buggy hop (ala the shooting into buildings stuff) like a minedoor.

 

Again, my caution about just buffing hitpoints is you trivialize the NPCs.  If you go that route, you may as well just grant all players 70FS/wep skill.  IMO, the damage calculation needs to be revisited and not just merely inflate hitpoints.  The equation may have worked as intended 2-3 years ago but the distribution curve of FS/BodyStats/Wep stats has shifted to the right since then because characters don't "age out" but are instead sold to others so they remain in game.

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29 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

Most ele missions don't get done because it's a dumb monument in x corner of the map, do ritual on x pillar in a doored/reinforced mine, drain the capital of x kingdom, or cut a tree at some random deed deep in enemy land

 

like lol if elevation was the only way to get points, we're not going to go raid worldstar, or cut a tree north of rome, the same as it is for pretty much everyone else

 

If we want more elevation missions done, there needs to be more elevation missions that are reasonable

 

I totally agree that the ele mission can be a little retarded at times, but the home are on the other end they are way to easy needs to be a good middle ground where we actually try and have fights over these missions and its not just go here and do this in a safe zone type missions I agree with what retro said about having a modifier, but I think its to light on the ele side and enemy servers need to be much better to make up for how hard they are.

Edited by Darklords
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On 3/27/2016 at 1:44 AM, Retrograde said:

 

  •     Make .. possibly home server merchants tauntable (perhaps require killing of all guards, or a drain similar to disintegration)

 

Don't agree. RIP Epic economy.

 

 

SOTG - 35% :D

 

Portaling - Timer after leaving enemy local would be much much better than removing. Or just a timer anytime.

 

Buff light armors a little or reduce the chance of being bashed.

 

Increase player hitpoints 15%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Omar

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I don't think two-handed weapon users will become pin cushions. First of all, damage output for archery per hit is much lower than most melee weapons. When you combine this with the five second timer (compared to 3-4 seconds on many melee weapons), the DPS gap becomes evident. Plainly put, archery doesn't do that much damage to player targets, which is why it was and is mainly used to kill mounts and generally only used on players in specific scenarios (ie. boat PvP, raids, killing naked players / alts).

 

If the armor penalties were removed and archery became too powerful against players, some armor type (I personally would choose chain, sans barding for obvious reasons) could be given plate's old glance rate against arrows to make it a lower DR alternative for people who want higher defense against archers while outputting more damage. Obviously, it would need a little more love to make it viable.

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sotg 25% is good. Needs a better level 7 buff tho, which, could include a armor bonus in leather/cloth,

path of hate is level 7 50% damage then level 11 spell immunity, give sotg-mid path some love

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10 hours ago, CaptainFightyPants said:

Time for a new post saying what Retrograde and crew think of all this feedback?

 

not enough trolling

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Also, people complain about sorcery items. I believe they are fine, all we need to do is to fix the bugged ones and fix the female versions or give people option to choose.

Increasing base HP of people will solve the problem of dmg stacking to kill newbies in 1 hit that happens a lot with true strike.

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An effective but harder way to address all this requires starting with the min/max situations.

  1. State what the minimum combat "level" should be, hp/dr/speed/dmg/whatever, no armour, no weapon, no enchants, in effect you create the baseline
  2. State what the maximum combat level should be, as above but with max possible toon, ql gear, enchants and specials like valrei
  3. Note, the maximum is not what we currently have but what we should have (no idea who decides) This gives us our scaling factors.
  4. Work out for each component what each possible modifier is allowed to contribute based on one of two methods. All modifiers must fit the valid range or to allow capping.

The aim is that every combat modifier is looked at in context and only in context to the entire scheme. Nothing should ever be looked at in a standalone manner.

The main issue of having everything fit within a range is you cannot add a new modifier without reworking everything that contributes to that range.

The main issue with capping is that you can add a bonus which has no effect in some situations because the relevant cap is already reached though it does allow for more options.

 

Once you have the min/max levels set and agreed then, and only then, you would be able to realistically see how to balance things like SotG.

 

I would be interested in seeing what the current min/max is and what the current scaling factors are. My bet is I'd cringe if I did.

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8bb67b64090b1981a8cd7540c79e5f0c.png

An update since my last post, 1 mission done on elevation 9 on desertion no problem here guess we should just abandon elevation and goto our home server like the rest of the people who want to do missions since that's the only viable way it seems =).

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First of all, thank you very much for all the feedback over the past week. There's been a huge amount of discussion and we have plenty of information to work with. During this week I'll sit down with the devs and begin the process of bringing most of these changes in.

 

As many of you have said, and i'm sure the rest feel, there's no one thing that will improve PvP and combat, there's a lot of little things we can adjust in a small time frame to improve how it currently plays. but in order to truely improve PvP we'll need to take time to address core parts of the system and then work towards what we want PvP to be.I know I'm not alone in hoping these changes come quick, but I'd rather see a properly tested and balanced system coming rather than a quick one.

 

Rest assured though, I will keep you all updated as time goes on.

 

Retrograde

 

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