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Retrograde

PvP changes refined

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Macedon had 72 accounts of various type btw. Just throwing that out there. 

 

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I've gone through and removed some of the more negative ones in the OP, and also added bold text explaining a few better, as well as adjusting them compared to the original premise

 

Please bear in mind this is not all the changes. For the sake of structuring I have split the many changes we intend on bringing in into smaller sprints in order to continue to actively improve pvp. Each change or addition will then be monitored.

 

Widespread balancing involving combat, weapons, armour, mounts, spells, priests, meditation, karma, sorcery will take time, the aim of this is to address key long standing mechanics issues, and allow us to then view what needs to balance and plan accordingly.

 

no changes to mechanics will go live without the information being made available prior

Changes

  •     Remove expanded Information minister functions removal of "x enters your territory"
  •     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Cooldown on exiting local of enemy players, crossing servers, disabling teleporting into enemy presence and alerted deeds - This is a good balance which caters to both sides but it might NEGATIVE meta effects if a player suspects a raid is being conducted, they will try to teleport to that deed on a throw-away account or, if they know a raid is being conducted but not sure if enemy have left, they will try to karma until they're allowed. I guess, in a way, this could be a good thing since the defence will know and travel to defend. Don't be scared to completetly disable if it doesn't work out.
  •     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. Scale. It will give SOTG/Leather-Cloth wearing players a little bonus, nobody should be able to archer in full plate with full protection.
  •     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.5 second timer to embark, disruptable - Should only count for wagons/boats/chairs/carts - Not horses. Nobody is getting off their horse to hit/embark/disembark/hit/embark...like boats.
  •     Addition of Archery keybinds.
  •     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs.Until throwing/stun mechanics can be addressed - Take them off homeservers completetly or spawn only freindly mobs for "server defence" and for elevation spawn them only inside "Premium spawn" on elevation. There is no need to have these OP mobs killing new players. Which home servers are the starting lands for.
  •     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person.30 second cooldown when Nolocate is effective, no nolo, no cooldown - Increase to 2-4 minutes.
  •  
  •     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc
  •     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation (varied scenario points per part of mission, multiplied by .5, 1 or 1.5 according to server, this would mean a hard mission on a home server is still better than an easy mission on an enemy server, move timers may be adjusted accordingly) - Take friendly missions away from home servers completely or remove SP from home-server missions.
  •     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Neutral mission to slay x unique in x region, slaying faction receives god move reduction as if they completed a mission for said god - Fun, makes uniques on servers a bit more important.
  •     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps - Capping towers/camps promotes pvp, so should give reward of battle rank. It can be a long time until kills are made even if you're in battle. Let's keep focus on pvp-orienated activities. Remove rank from missions except drain missions/enemy home server missions.
  •     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable (perhaps require killing of all guards, or a drain similar to disintegration) +1
  •     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers (dont want to remove this from pve servers as sailing is slow enough, on pvp it should be vulnerable though) - True, but overall sail-speed needs to be faster. We spoke about this in ts, the winds in game slow you down to a possible 5-6 kph, lower max wind or improve minimum speed. Make it so we can create Ores and right/click boat for a 1kmph speed boost for that 1 5 second action up to a max of 6 speed boost, with a full bar of stamina to do, you'll have a 2-4 second break between clicks.
  •     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count - +1 but a minimum time of 15-20 minutes is needed

 

SOTG

reduction to 25% DR until time for total meditation balancing is possible. Meditation should add flavour or slight benefits, not allow a path to be the dominant path +1!!!...Let's even the player base a little bit whilst we wait. Right now gone squads are dominating the BF. But scaling is TOO simple. I feel like 25% and people will go path of hate. Add the perks of wearing leather armor, scale down the % of DR for the plate you wear, i feel like there needs to be perks to a path ontop of a number to suit play styles.


Epic - Elevation - Jen Kellon

Edited by Mclovin

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2 hours ago, changer said:

also, rather have the friendly homeserver missions give 0 scenario points and 0 effect on the valrei board while still giving karma, missions was meant to create pvp by going into dangerous territories/situations, so saccing 5 spindles or creating a wooden shield from your starterdeed should have no factor in valrei, players still gain karma from it so new players has the ability to gain karma for later on like homeservers were intended, just a path to help towards the pvp, not a retirement home for freedomers.

 +10000

Also, enemy home servers can give rank for missions.

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8 minutes ago, Mclovin said:


Epic - Elevation - Jen Kellon

"True, but overall sail-speed needs to be faster. We spoke about this in ts, the winds in game slow you down to a possible 5-6 kph, lower max wind or improve top speed. Make it so we can create Ores and right/click boat for a 1kmph speed boost for that 1 5 second action up to a max of 6 speed boost, with a full bar of stamina to do, you'll have a 2-4 second break between clicks. "

By "improve top speed" i think you mean "improve minimum speed"...

The max speed in a full boat is fine, its when the weather conditions are horrible and you are one person that its dreadfull.

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Quote

 

  •     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.5 second timer to embark, disruptable

 

 

I still really don't like this, I know some of the dev's might not want to admit it but the game is extremely buggy and people are always being thrown off of boats or horses in PvP, as mentioned previously this will just lead to loads of bug related deaths.

 

Please don't implement this in any way shape of form.

 

What's trying to be achieved anyway?

 

 

 

Rest sounds alright. I've got SoTG and don't care if it gets nerfed but please allow path switches as mentioned in your other post.

 

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5 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

"True, but overall sail-speed needs to be faster. We spoke about this in ts, the winds in game slow you down to a possible 5-6 kph, lower max wind or improve top speed. Make it so we can create Ores and right/click boat for a 1kmph speed boost for that 1 5 second action up to a max of 6 speed boost, with a full bar of stamina to do, you'll have a 2-4 second break between clicks. "

By "improve top speed" i think you mean "improve minimum speed"...

The max speed in a full boat is fine, its when the weather conditions are horrible and you are one person that its dreadfull.

yes ill edit, thanks

Edited by Mclovin

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11 minutes ago, Mclovin said:

 Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count - +1 but a minimum time of 15-20 minutes is needed

 

Ten minutes for a tower cap is definitely too short. It makes tower capping a pve activity instead of a pvp activity, as defenders don't have enough time to respond - particularly on a server the size of Elevation.

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19 minutes ago, Mclovin said:

Capping towers/camps promotes pvp, so should give reward of battle rank. It can be a long time until kills are made even if you're in battle. Let's keep focus on pvp-orienated activities.

+1 but a minimum time of 15-20 minutes is needed

 

Killing guards is pve.  If they really do promote pvp, then you would get rank from the kills.  If rank from pve missions are removed, then rank needs to be removed from hota/towers/camps too.

 

For the second, you can't really give a longer timer, or it will encourage small groups kiting guards as people try to do now, instead they now have time to slowly kill them while having the capper able to fight now and not have to worry about moving too far away or whatever

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Not going to +1 or -1 anything here - I don't pvp and never will. But could you let us know what of all these changes is going to be applied to or bleed into pve too? Because *then* pve needs to have a chance to have their say also (on the pve-side of things) - we've had a lot of pvp-changes having repercussions for pve without getting that chance, would like to see that done a bit differently.

Edited by Kianga

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Just now, Kianga said:

Not going to +1 or -1 anything here - I don't pvp and never will. But could you let us know what of all these changes is going to be applied to or bleed into pve too? Because *then* pve needs to have a chance to have their say also (on the pve-side of things) - we've had a lot of pvp-changes having repercussions for pve without getting that chance, would like to see that changed.

 

Read the op?

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43 minutes ago, Gavin said:

 

 

I still really don't like this, I know some of the dev's might not want to admit it but the game is extremely buggy and people are always being thrown off of boats or horses in PvP, as mentioned previously this will just lead to loads of bug related deaths.

 

Totally agree. Happens to me a lot and mainly when crossing servers, it takes me more than 5 secs to log in and sort it out.

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7 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I've gone through and removed some of the more negative ones in the OP, and also added bold text explaining a few better, as well as adjusting them compared to the original premise

 

Please bear in mind this is not all the changes. For the sake of structuring I have split the many changes we intend on bringing in into smaller sprints in order to continue to actively improve pvp. Each change or addition will then be monitored.

 

Widespread balancing involving combat, weapons, armour, mounts, spells, priests, meditation, karma, sorcery will take time, the aim of this is to address key long standing mechanics issues, and allow us to then view what needs to balance and plan accordingly.

 

no changes to mechanics will go live without the information being made available prior

Changes

  •     Remove expanded Information minister functions removal of "x enters your territory" +1
  •     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Cooldown on exiting local of enemy players, crossing servers, disabling teleporting into enemy presence and alerted deeds +0.  I really think this has almost no impact on the game other than it allows people to actually fight now.  I've been in a couple of very one-sided JK/MR battles over the last few months that were changed by JK being able to port in and defend and both sides have a dozen or more people in local.  Was great fun and I'd hate to see that ruined.  Isn't there already a 24 hour wait timer on joining a new village?  Maybe I'm wrong, but just use some tactics and hit one deed, make people port it, then switch to another point of attack and people already have to wait to switch villages again.  Am I missing something?
  •     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. +1 for removal unless other armor types get balanced.
  •     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.5 second timer to embark, disruptable -1.  I still don't understand the problem being solved here?  This will ruin boat pvp.  What happens when the captain gets killed?  So what if people get on mounts? Shoot the mounts.
  •     Addition of Archery keybinds. +1.
  •     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs.Until throwing/stun mechanics can be addressed +0.  Wtf does this have to do with pvp?
  •     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person.30 second cooldown when Nolocate is effective, no nolo, no cooldown +0.
  •  
  •     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc +1
  •     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation (varied scenario points per part of mission, multiplied by .5, 1 or 1.5 according to server, this would mean a hard mission on a home server is still better than an easy mission on an enemy server, move timers may be adjusted accordingly) +0.
  •     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Neutral mission to slay x unique in x region, slaying faction receives god move reduction as if they completed a mission for said god +0
  •     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps +0
  •     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable (perhaps require killing of all guards, or a drain similar to disintegration) +0.
  •     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers (dont want to remove this from pve servers as sailing is slow enough, on pvp it should be vulnerable though) +1.
  •     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count.  +1 to remove interruptable action and require a certain amount of guards to be killed during the countdown.  I would not use local to determine the number, just make it fixed for now and at a level that can't be soloed or duoed or whatever the min is you want.

 

SOTG

reduction to 25% DR until time for total meditation balancing is possible. Meditation should add flavour or slight benefits, not allow a path to be the dominant path.  +1 sort of.  I'd like more thought put in to the 25% number other than it is half of 50 :)I think some serious thought need to go into the paths.  Do you really want all of them viable for pvp?  If so, then you have to remove the badness that is insanity in general other than nerf the biggest benefit of it.  It is hard to comment on SOTG when no one knows what your goals are.

 

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I see enough in the op which could easily either bleed over, or be changed FOR PVP (but also then apply to pve) - so my question stands. It would need a seperate thread, don't want to contaminate this pvp thread anymore then it might be - but the question needs asked here (while the answer might well be elsewhere). Over and out.

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6 minutes ago, Kianga said:

I see enough in the op which could easily either bleed over, or be changed FOR PVP (but also then apply to pve) - so my question stands. It would need a seperate thread, don't want to contaminate this pvp thread anymore then it might be - but the question needs asked here (while the answer might well be elsewhere). Over and out.

Basically it won't, the devs want it to only have an effect on pvp and most of the changes are irrelevant to pve anyway as they don't exist on that server.

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I don't have a point-by-point breakdown of what I think is good or bad.  Overall, even though I disagree with some of the changes, the changes overall just seem like a bunch of "things" that are suggestions from various places, that went from sweeping large changes, and have now been muddled after arguments into minor changes.

 

Speaking as someone who doesn't play anymore because the game got stale - none of these changes, to me, make Chaos (cant speak for Epic) any more fun.  It dilutes a few mechanics, re-balances some others - but what overall purpose do they serve?  Will PVP be some percentage more fair? Probably.  Will this spur up PVP and revitalize it for everyone that's burned out on it?  There's nothing specific that will make PVP happen, maybe a couple groups will be more active to try out the changes for a few weeks or a month, but there's nothing here that adresses the big picture - that on Chaos, people are running out of REASONS to pvp.  When there is both no Reason to PVP, and no FUN to PVP, then, what's the point?

 

Example 1 - removing teleporting to a deed.  Whether you agree or disagree with it, in the end it will lead to less pvp.  People will be less likely to come defend something if they know they need to ride across the map, or don't have a safe way into the deed.  So, that means that it will encourage more raiding which means more catapulting/raids (which we all know is boring as all hell) and in return results in more time spent rebuilding longhouses and dirtwalls.  Is it more "fair" that you cant teleport to a deed?  Sure - but, it lowers the chance for PVP action.


Example 2 - battlerank.  Who cares?  Capturing a pillar gives i think 2 battlerank.  Killing an enemy can give 20-30+.  HoTA is every 1.5 days - so, if you go to every hota in a week, spend 3-4 hours a week doing an EXTREMELY boring task, you can get, if you're lucky, that same 20-30 battlerank in a month.  Why is this even part of the conversation?  It has nothing to do with encouraging PVP.

 

Example 3 - tower cap mechanics.  Makes sense, changing the mechanics will prevent cheesing or abuse of tower caps when right now you can have 1-2 people show up and cap a tower.  What does this have to do with PVP?  It should be a bugfix, not part of a "pvp revamp".  No part of this adds to making PVP more "fun" or encouraging more PVP.

 

So overall - yes there are suggestions I and many others agree with and I think will make PVP more fair and balanced - but give no incentive for me, from my position, to actually want to come back and spend time playing Wurm again.  I think people are a bit too in the weeds on these suggestions and addressing the nuances of each change, rather than looking at the big picture - and asking themselves will this be FUN?  All the changes, for better or worse - none of them make Chaos more FUN - and I think that's the problem.

Edited by Naio
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-> Great work on removing teleportation imo when enemies are around or having a cooldown on it when someone leaves local.

 

-> I think the boat/horse disembarking will lead to bugged deaths like gavin said but they will be very few caus the chances of someone dropping from boat right when enemies are in combat is pretty low. Not sure about horses though, shiit could get real lol

 

-> I think path of hate should have a permanent offensive bonus, for example if sotg gives 25% dmg reduction, path of hate should give 50% dmg increase ( so a 10 dmg wound to an enemy would be a 15 dmg wound). Some people may ask why this rather than 25% dmg increase for path of hate? Well everyone will choose 25% dmg reduction for their own survival rather than 25% dmg increase. Thats why 50% dmg increase seems a fair option.

 

-> Path of power could have an interesting change like more movespeed for every armour type and max speed being the same as a naked player. If not much interest is shown in this, then the good old double stamina is ok too.

 

-> Guard tower change is really good. The person capturing should be able to fight because like 2 weeks ago we had to capture a tower in which the guards kept going for the person who was capturing (even when he was literally standing at maximum distance) and we all tried to stop them but one or so guard would always reach that person. That made a 10 minute cap into a 1 hour+ cap and was annoying.

 

-> I was hoping to see someone about twitter alarm with a delay caus I believe that was talked about earlier too (but i guess with the teleportation changes, twitter can stay caus people will have to travel to get anywhere rather than joining a village and teleporting instantly).

 

-> Player healths should be doubled, people spend hours to make their equipment and for non-sotg players, 1-2 hits from a huge axe and its over lol. Player healths should be doubled for all players (at least on pvp servers) to make fights a bit longer than they are now.

Overall good changes, keep up the good work!

Edited by Hashirama

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10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

    Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers (dont want to remove this from pve servers as sailing is slow enough, on pvp it should be vulnerable though)

It seems rather buggy that it exists at all...remove from all servers or no servers at all. 

 

 

*edit* If sailing is too slow, how about fixing that problem?

Edited by Lisabet
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8 minutes ago, Lisabet said:

It seems rather buggy that it exists at all...remove from all servers or no servers at all. 

 

 

*edit* If sailing is too slow, how about fixing that problem?

 

Remove the 'breeze'

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The point of my post wasn't "Nerf because of MR" but that all the reasons I have read against the teleport being removed/limited were being portrayed as "this isn't needed, because MR isn't affected by the teleport system as is."  For example, a prior post asserted something along the lines of... MR raids JK and JK can't port in enough to stop us and if they do we just go elsewhere and they're stuck there; therefore, nothing needs to change.  That anecdote omits that it DOES affect OTHER kingdoms who can't simply overwhelm with numbers (how far do you think a HOTS attack on an MR deed would go before MR ported in 10-15 people all around the point of attack so they can encircle and wipe out the attacking force, which the current porting system allows).  The arguments being made for "teleport isn't broken" are all lopsided from the MR point of view and so I was presenting the alternative view -- that the current teleport mechanic is a big inhibitor to anyone being able to attack any substantially larger kingdom.  

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Lisabet said:

It seems rather buggy that it exists at all...remove from all servers or no servers at all. 

 

 

*edit* If sailing is too slow, how about fixing that problem?

 

I think this got turned sideways because of the PVE conversation that got brought in.  I thought the complaint was, for example, I put my main on a sailboat with 4 SOTGs and then log off.  That way the SOTGs hold "5 player speed" even though i'm not around to get pincushioned to slow the boat down.  Meanwhile, the enemy with 5 players "active" get their weakest pincushioned and are now slower (removing rarity of boat).  

 

The only quirk I can see is what happens when a player drops connection and is reconnecting, does the boat suddenly slow down and prevent the get-away?  Perhaps the "fix" is a combination, they solve the sailing is too slow problem while adjusting speed to "online/embarked" when an enemy is in local."

Edited by DrB
adjusted final sentence.

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Or just have leaving the world drop you from the boat, there is always that

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4 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

Killing guards is pve.  If they really do promote pvp, then you would get rank from the kills.  If rank from pve missions are removed, then rank needs to be removed from hota/towers/camps too.

 

For the second, you can't really give a longer timer, or it will encourage small groups kiting guards as people try to do now, instead they now have time to slowly kill them while having the capper able to fight now and not have to worry about moving too far away or whatever

I don't see how capping enemy territory with a death message saying your at x___ tower or x___ pillar is the same to a pve mission. There is alot more risk in the tower cap/hota cap than the pve mission, which doesn't tell anybody where you're at or if you're the person who completed it.

Edited by Mclovin

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Whats the deal with champs? will they remain the same DR

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16 hours ago, bloodmaster said:
  •     Remove expanded Information minister functions removal of "x enters your territory" +1, look into removing twitter from pvp servers too though as it is just abused to use bots to scan twitter and send out automated alerts. This is pretty much the same of macro'ing but for a deed alert system. Removal of automatic tweeting/tweeting of any sort will kill this sort of practice and make pvp healthier.

I fully agree on this one- 90% of deeds on chaos are just bots strategicaly placed over map for teleportation and twitter alerts

Also regarding to tp'ing, remove it completly.

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20 hours ago, Retrograde said:
  • Remove expanded Information minister functions removal of "x enters your territory" Good.
  •     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Cooldown on exiting local of enemy players, crossing servers, disabling teleporting into enemy presence and alerted deeds First part is good, disabling teleporting into enemy presence removes setting traps and the alerted deed should be allowed for legit villagers which is why a cooldown after joining is all that is needed to stop the whole kingdom coming.
  •     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. Still just remove it.
  •     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.5 second timer to embark, disruptable Still not sold on this and can see it creating more issues than it solves, just fix the distance.
  •     Addition of Archery keybinds. Still indifferent.
  •     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs.Until throwing/stun mechanics can be addressed Sure.
  •     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person.30 second cooldown when Nolocate is effective, no nolo, no cooldown First part is needed, second part is really unnecessary when it can take a lot of casts to even hit anyway.
  •     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc Sure.
  •     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation (varied scenario points per part of mission, multiplied by .5, 1 or 1.5 according to server, this would mean a hard mission on a home server is still better than an easy mission on an enemy server, move timers may be adjusted accordingly) Still good, the move timer being adjusted however is a terrible idea since the nature of random missions means that you could end up having to 50x as many missions on a bad streak, even some of the seemingly easy missions can take a long time which wouldn't be fairly reflected in this change.
  •     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Neutral mission to slay x unique in x region, slaying faction receives god move reduction as if they completed a mission for said god Don't see a need for a neutral mission category and uniques can already be tagged as traitors.
  •     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps Still Yes.
  •     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable (perhaps require killing of all guards, or a drain similar to disintegration) Killing all of what guards? Home servers have their markets outside spawn towns since they are not allowed to place on the deed and these are the legit ones. If you want to make them tauntable on home servers (which I think they should be) then they should be allowed to be placed on the start deed in a market area but this will also promote the raiding of spawns since it would actually become worth it so Arch GMs will need to be prepared to repair them more frequently.
  •     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers (dont want to remove this from pve servers as sailing is slow enough, on pvp it should be vulnerable though) Still yes, but do not kick from boat when logged off as suggested in a previous post as many players don't have hours to sail home after a trip and have to log out they shouldn't have to be stranded in the ocean because of that.
  •     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count Removing the interruption is good if you make it require all guards to be dead to be completed, I wouldn't put a guard killed requirement since the spawns can be random and you may not get enough to fulfil this so just make it all dead at the end (making sure none spawn too close to the end to make it impossible).

 

SOTG

reduction to 25% DR until time for total meditation balancing is possible. Meditation should add flavour or slight benefits, not allow a path to be the dominant path Way too low. Seriously, this is level 11 not level 7 hate which it puts it on par with, it also makes it less powerful than level 9 power. If you want to reduce it at least take into consideration the math involved and the fact that its level 11. Making it 35% minimum to match powers level 9 is fine, there are cons to power and so there should be its a lower level but there are also pros that sotg at 35% still wouldn't have (Garys post already covers the pros and cons). The funny part is that my character pretty much already has this 25% difference to my alt without gone added in body strength alone (my alt is on par with the average player), so when you nerf sotg out of existence of course I'm going to swap paths because I can still have the natural damage reduction on offer anyway and add something like hate to ignore spells and wreck faces on top of it or use power to enhance my already high stamina and spam specials with elemental immunity laughing at your pillars and weapon enchants, essentially sporting two paths. I'm not trying to brag about my nolife account by any means, simply trying to point out that the 25% is just way too big of a nerf. Gotta stop forgetting that this is level 11 and treat it as such.

 

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