PvP changes refined

[Madt 1,178]

21 hours ago, Retrograde said:

no changes to mechanics will go live without the information being made available prior

I do hope so, even if all the devs think they know better than the players on a certain issue or two, we deserve to be made aware of any and all changes going in and to be allowed to object to them and have our reasoning heard.

Changes

•     Remove expanded Information minister functions removal of "x enters your territory" Yep, +1
•     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Cooldown on exiting local of enemy players, crossing servers, disabling teleporting into enemy presence and alerted deeds Not so sure on the cooldown part of it, there are ways that can be abused I think. It'd be much much much easier for the developers if they just made teleporting to a deed only possible if you've been a part of that deed for several days, 3 should be fine. This would solve all the problems surrounding teleportation currently so I'm not sure why you wouldn't just do that instead of implementing cooldowns and such. The current problem is if a deed is being attacked defenders will get invited to that deed and teleport in safely and instantly. If you do what I suggested above that wouldn't be possible anymore. Problem solved.
•     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. +1 to completely removing archery penalities. They don't really fit in wurm at all.
•     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.5 second timer to embark, disruptable This would make boat pvp very very dangerous. As Gavin pointed out, whether you want to admit it or not Wurm is incredibly buggy sometimes and it's very common for people to get disembarked randomly from a boat. If this happened in pvp the person who got disembarked randomly would be targetted and hit, disrupting the embark timer and thus being dead in the water, literally. There would be nothing they could do about it and it'd be all down to this silly addition. Alot of unfair deaths would happen, pushing alot of people away from wanting to pvp. Surely you don't want that?
•     Addition of Archery keybinds. +1
•     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs.Until throwing/stun mechanics can be addressed Yep, +1
•     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person.30 second cooldown when Nolocate is effective, no nolo, no cooldown I don't agree with the cooldown part but that'll probably get added anyway.
•  
•     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc +1
•     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation (varied scenario points per part of mission, multiplied by .5, 1 or 1.5 according to server, this would mean a hard mission on a home server is still better than an easy mission on an enemy server, move timers may be adjusted accordingly)
•     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Neutral mission to slay x unique in x region, slaying faction receives god move reduction as if they completed a mission for said god
•     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps +1 I personally liked it the old way, rank for kills only.
•     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable (perhaps require killing of all guards, or a drain similar to disintegration) Require killing of all guards I guess.
•     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers (dont want to remove this from pve servers as sailing is slow enough, on pvp it should be vulnerable though) Well this sounds like a bug so I don't see why you'd remove it? If people on PvE servers are unhappy with sailing speeds that much then why not address that instead of leaving a bug in? Just seems a bit sloppy.
•     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count As I said in the previous thread, just make it so all guards must be killed in order to capture the tower and make sure no guards are spawned in the final minute or two of capturing. That way people can't kite guards which is what I think this is about and you'll have no guards spawning in the last seconds of capturing and ruining the timer. That'd be so much easier to implement surely?

 

SOTG

reduction to 25% DR until time for total meditation balancing is possible. Meditation should add flavour or slight benefits, not allow a path to be the dominant path Yeah that sounds good. Make SoTG not stack with any other bonuses whatsoever though. One of the biggest problems with Wurm PvP is people stacking so many buffs and bonuses on their one account and becoming godlike without doing any actual work. SoTG is fine like that on its own, just not with all the other stuff ontop of it. Even if they stack at a reduced %, it's still not good.

 

Also, I see you removed some of the points that were in the previous thread. I'd like to reference this one:

 

*Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids.

 

Can we please get a confirmation from yourself that this idea has been scrapped for now? While I do agree raiding needs to be made more fast paced and less tedious, that would not be the right way to go about it, at all. By doing something like that all that would happen is the side with the most people would always win. Please take some time to speak with PvP experienced players on this issue in particular and I think you'll see this won't solve the problem in the way you think it will. There are other ways to make raiding more exciting and action based and we can come up with them, so long as we're all for sure on the same page.

 

Thanks for taking the time to go through these replies and suggestions. Must be tiring.

[changer 459]

1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

 

How is reducing the timer or removing the reduction from the timer & scenario points all together from friendly home server missions a bad idea? you don't risk anything by saccing a spindle or killing 40 brown bears on a server where it's 100% impossible for any enemy to establish a permanent presence, the point of missions and valrei all together is to reward taking risks which in turn creates pvp

 

which makes more sense, the current system where it's more beneficial to be a freedomer living on a home server not participating in any pvp while doing the sac x spindles kill x brown bears 15 tiles away from the starterdeed on your homeserver, or removing that altogether so that players actually have to take risks such as going into enemy lands & do offensive actions like capping a tower or participating in hota and to go into enemy homeservers to do missions, to put themselves in dangerous situations which enemies can exploit in order to get rewards later

 

if all the "valrei" players on mrh and jkh suddenly had to go and risk themselves in order to gain valrei items, who knows how much more pvp would be created. And if they don't, too bad, risk vs reward, they obviously don't care enough for the valrei items or for pvp then.

 

Gary's points were all refuted about SOTG vs power, power 9 is practically useless as damage reduction, once more people use power, more people will use RT, power 9 doesn't work against RT, power 9 is then only useful against pillars and direct cast spells.

 

SOTG vs hate is up for discussion, the point is to balance the paths as close as possible to eachother, obviously now insanity is the only practical path for pvp, which is why the vast majority of pvpers meditate on that path

 

 

Also regarding longhouses, just have it be able to dig dirt if 3 connected tiles of the longhouse has been bashed/catapulted, you have to catapult the entire longhouse now

 

 

& hellhorses, mclovins idea is good, they should have the same speed as normal horses but have a greater protection, it would make pets viable again.

Edited March 28, 2016 by changer

[Retrograde 12,013]

Quote

*Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids.

This idea has been scrapped for now.

 

Originally it was not intended to be introduced with this round of changes, I must have forgotten to move it to the other list. There are a lot of plans to look at current raiding mechanics and working out how we can improve them into a more strategic, defensive and fluid system, but those will not be touched without a long time of consideration and observation.

[Carmichael 684]

18 hours ago, bloodmaster said:

How would it at all? That is such a rubbish claim. How many people does MR have, include your alts and such too. I know Macedon before had probably 50 if you include accounts and I imagine MR has plenty more than us. If you remove alts and priests to bypass the system you put them on a timer to rejoin that same kingdom to prevent that. I'm still waiting for a reason why small kingdoms would be unbalanced, you can't argue to keep a system where numbers rule the game. It causes an imbalance in Wurm pvp, it always has. Every kingdom has felt the effects over the years and it isn't fun.

 

And I didn't say based on village size, that would be silly. I explained that deeds used to have a limit to the number of people who could join them.

 

18 hours ago, TradingAlt said:

Never implied that small kingdoms would be an imbalance, I just stated it would be dumb because you'd have to tell your friends they can't play with you.

 

As far as the joining timer goes, that goes off of joining a kingdom not being removed from one.

 

It is very difficult to make changes like this on a case by case bases. Its pretty redundant that people go, Oh this group is too strong, lets make it harder for them even though they are doing everything legitimately under current mechanics.

I know before kingdom Roster of theirs got updated MR had over 1,000 accounts in the kingdom. Not a single PMK other than MR has that many accounts in the kingdom. JK doesn't even come close, nor did any of the other PMK's past and present. PMK's need some sort of player cap due to how much the Declaration of Independence costs. And for the sake of balance in the PvP "Numbers"

[Madt 1,178]

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

This idea has been scrapped for now.

 

Originally it was not intended to be introduced with this round of changes, I must have forgotten to move it to the other list. There are a lot of plans to look at current raiding mechanics and working out how we can improve them into a more strategic, defensive and fluid system, but those will not be touched without a long time of consideration and observation.

 

Thank you, that eases my concerns alot!

It'll be a tough job revamping the raiding system, but if it makes raiding more fun then I'm sure everyone will be for it, so long as it's all done fairly for both attackers and defenders.

[Redd 4,281]

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

This idea has been scrapped for now.

 

Originally it was not intended to be introduced with this round of changes, I must have forgotten to move it to the other list. There are a lot of plans to look at current raiding mechanics and working out how we can improve them into a more strategic, defensive and fluid system, but those will not be touched without a long time of consideration and observation.

 

A step in the right direction would be removing the horrible ladder meta built, and to make it so that enemies can decrease the length of a building just like the owner can increase/reduce the size. This means that whole long houses arent required to be removed when raiding, so to make it less of a grind. 

 

Being successful at raiding essentially is who can spend the most time catapulting vs building lol, defending hardly comes into play anymore.

 

I feel that raiding has moved away from being "fun" to just being a grind of whoever's will is stronger.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Redd

[atazs 961]

Quote

Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count

How about change it so that you can start conquering a tower while the guards are alive and just make the guards rush back to the tower? There is nothing more annjoying with tower capping than having to deal with guards that are extremely far away, on mountains where you cant go or inside caves. You can spend up to 10+ minutes looking for them just to start capping the damn tower. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by atazs

[adoll 21]

1 hour ago, Redd said:

Being successful at raiding essentially is who can spend the most time catapulting vs building lol, defending hardly comes into play anymore.

 

I feel that raiding has moved away from being "fun" to just being a grind of whoever's will is stronger.

 

This is as it should be.  What you are describing as a "raid" is actually a "siege".  Attacking a capital city that has been fortified over the past 4 years should not be possible as a "fun afternoon jaunt."  It should take a week of continual, grinding and boring effort.

 

Raids are for small, undefended deeds.  Sieges are a test of will between the attacking group and the crafting ability of the defenders.  Wurm has always been a balance between crafters and warriors, and the dirtwall/longhouse is the ultimate protection the crafter can make.  Nerfing longhouses so warriors can have a leisurely afternoon sacking of a major city is just wrong.

[CaptainFightyPants 5]

15 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Or just have leaving the world drop you from the boat, there is always that

 

Sometimes you disconnect because of client/internet issues (happens a lot). It's good that you are still in the boat when you log back in.

[MetalDragon 1,630]

10 minutes ago, adoll said:

 

This is as it should be.  What you are describing as a "raid" is actually a "siege".  Attacking a capital city that has been fortified over the past 4 years should not be possible as a "fun afternoon jaunt."  It should take a week of continual, grinding and boring effort.

 

Raids are for small, undefended deeds.  Sieges are a test of will between the attacking group and the crafting ability of the defenders.  Wurm has always been a balance between crafters and warriors, and the dirtwall/longhouse is the ultimate protection the crafter can make.  Nerfing longhouses so warriors can have a leisurely afternoon sacking of a major city is just wrong.

Probably the best way to explain it to make it fair. But the downside is those low protection deeds can build the same way as a fortified city.

 

 

[Dalvin 61]

So here we go round 2!

•     Remove expanded Information minister functions removal of "x enters your territory"  +1 like I think EVERYONE else!
•     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Cooldown on exiting local of enemy players, crossing servers, disabling teleporting into enemy presence and alerted deeds -1 not because I even use teleport, look the bottom line is even in MR only your first responder types use teleport regularly and what is wrong with having a rapid response force?  For those crying about defenders dropping in how about the f2p alts I have seen used as nothing more than wall repair bots.  BL used to be quite brazen with that, I think we once saw up to 12 repair alts running around inside a deed repairing while we tried to catapult in.  Actually lets take this more fully in that direction, make Chaos premium only because this is about cutting back the meta-gaming right?  But if your going to remove all teleportation forms do it from the PvE servers too, we are trying to make things fair and equal for all, after all!
•     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces.+1 if it means the devs are going to look at wholesale armor rebalancing
•     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.5 second timer to embark, disruptable -1 again, really explain how this is a good idea especially in boat combat if the enemy manages to archer/spell down the commander, you are suggestion fixing a problem with a solution that breaks other gameplay aspects.  Now I could see a 3-5 second timer that wasn't disruptable as a compromise but anything more is just adding problems.
•     Addition of Archery keybinds. +1
•     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs.Until throwing/stun mechanics can be addressed  -1 really who will want something added back in that makes things more difficult for them, address the mechanics and put timers on the stuns/throws if your going to fix it but leave the valrei mobs as the dangerous beings they are supposed to be in the meantime
•     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person.30 second cooldown when Nolocate is effective, no nolo, no cooldown +1
•  
•     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc +1
•     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation (varied scenario points per part of mission, multiplied by .5, 1 or 1.5 according to server, this would mean a hard mission on a home server is still better than an easy mission on an enemy server, move timers may be adjusted accordingly) no opinion
•     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Neutral mission to slay x unique in x region, slaying faction receives god move reduction as if they completed a mission for said god no opinion
•     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps +1
•     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable (perhaps require killing of all guards, or a drain similar to disintegration) -1 but if your going to do it, it should DEFINITELY require killing all guards and maybe spawn a guard captain or something as well.
•     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers (dont want to remove this from pve servers as sailing is slow enough, on pvp it should be vulnerable though) +1 sure, but make it apply to all servers not just PvP its a meta exploit and as such should be removed impartially
•     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count +0 as in it might be workable and I would want to see it, would recommend something like 15 minutes though.

•  

  SOTG

  reduction to 25% DR until time for total meditation balancing is possible. Meditation should add flavour or slight benefits, not allow a path to be the dominant path -99 Again PVP needs balancing as a whole, come to Chaos and let someone wack you with a rare huge axe at 90+ FS 90+ huge axe skill and 50+ body strength/control and that tell me that pvp will be fun for my non SotG self because the SotG players are now almost as squishy as me.

Others have said it as well we might need to look at a server reset for Chaos ultimately to take place along with changes to the combat systems.  Perhaps questions that could/should be asked are can Chaos be used for the new tutorial map while retiring Golden Valley and at some point let the clock strike midnight and we will not be able to alter the map anymore, leaving the map attached to the other servers as a testimony to the trials/successes/failures and such of the past while moving us to new horizons.  Alternatively perhaps allow each PMK to select one deed from the map that they can have saved in its current form while a wipe- think epic cataclysm of world changing proportions- of the vast majority of the map occurs.  Make it part of the lore, these villages would survive because the priests of the nation prayed for deliverance of the heart of their nations while everything else met fire and ruin.  As developers add to the story that is being told while paving the way for a better game.

 

[Aum 771]

lvl 11 abbilities currently:

poi  = always active, cannot be interrupted, no extra equipment needed, reduces ALL dmg, reduced natural healing speed by 50% <Rolf> in some cases
pop = always active, cannot be interrupted, no extra equipment needed, reduces all stamina drain 30%
pol  = always active, healing with cotton or spells can be interrupted, you need an lt weapon, wounds naturally heal 50% faster?
poh = always active, only useful against certain spells (and if a player looked at your title they would know not to bother casting..?)
pok = always active, no use in pvp really

 

clearly there is only one choice for pvp when looking for the always active ability of a path. i am not including other abilities for comparison cause they are not "always active"

 

some ideas of what could be done, these numbers are not particularly balanced but it brings all lvl 11 path abilities into pvp
anyways i just want to see the game grow and not get nerfed into the ground, obviously 50% dmg reduction to everything is a bit OP compared to the

other paths abilities, even reducing it  will not give other paths a chance so they must be improved and balanced.

 

poi  = reduce all physical dmg by 50%, reduces all other dmg by 10%, reduce all healing by 25%, natural healing is 50% slower
pop = reduce stamina drain by 30%, water and food usage reduced by half, favor regeneration increased by 50%
pol  = heal 2x as much, heal 2x as fast, return 10% of dmg done
poh = reduce elemental dmg received by 50% including aoe's, 10% more spell dmg
pok = 25% skill increase, 10% less dmg received, 10% more dmg delt

 

you could always go the steady route and give all paths 50% dmg reduction, and then add the flavor on top like immunity's to specific dmg types or

a slight more respectable bonus on a particular type of dmg delt

 

[MrGARY 12,421]

6 hours ago, changer said:

How is reducing the timer or removing the reduction from the timer & scenario points all together from friendly home server missions a bad idea? you don't risk anything by saccing a spindle or killing 40 brown bears on a server where it's 100% impossible for any enemy to establish a permanent presence, the point of missions and valrei all together is to reward taking risks which in turn creates pvp

 

which makes more sense, the current system where it's more beneficial to be a freedomer living on a home server not participating in any pvp while doing the sac x spindles kill x brown bears 15 tiles away from the starterdeed on your homeserver, or removing that altogether so that players actually have to take risks such as going into enemy lands & do offensive actions like capping a tower or participating in hota and to go into enemy homeservers to do missions, to put themselves in dangerous situations which enemies can exploit in order to get rewards later

 

if all the "valrei" players on mrh and jkh suddenly had to go and risk themselves in order to gain valrei items, who knows how much more pvp would be created. And if they don't, too bad, risk vs reward, they obviously don't care enough for the valrei items or for pvp then.

 

It would probably help if the situation wasn't inflated into some pretend scenario where everyone is saccing 1 spindle at the starter deed or whatever else is "at the starter deed".  Pretty much any mission that isn't a crafting mission requires traveling.  Rituals at monuments, killing 40-120 whatever animals, finding a traitor, looking for mission items, etc.  I'm all for less of the deed sitting missions that are just make 30 wagons though, I hate crafting missions and not really interested in going to mrh to craft.  Forcing the options of having to travel or kill things are better to promote than crafting, so I semi-agree with the non-inflated story of what the situation is

 

People on mrh/jkh/blh that enjoy only doing safe missions aren't going to suddenly run to blh to drain a deed.  Me/Sme used to do missions on blh a lot even on mains not alts back when it didn't mean 3-6 hours of sailing to spend 2-4 hours raiding some deed to drain or saccing 250 horses which is like 2 hours in sacrifice timers alone.  Not everyone is interested in dedicating half a day into nerding just one or a couple missions.  It doesn't matter if mrh or whatever doesn't affect valrei anymore, people still aren't going to do unreasonable missions or unreasonable time sinks.  It has nothing to do with risk when people have fighting alts made for missions that they don't care if they die, even Rome does.  Nothing will change other than coincidentally a convenient buff to pmks that lets them do missions to affect valrei on 4 servers where template kingdoms have 3 now

[CaptainFightyPants 5]

23 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

It would probably help if the situation wasn't inflated into some pretend scenario where everyone is saccing 1 spindle at the starter deed or whatever else is "at the starter deed".  Pretty much any mission that isn't a crafting mission requires traveling.  Rituals at monuments, killing 40-120 whatever animals, finding a traitor, looking for mission items, etc.  I'm all for less of the deed sitting missions that are just make 30 wagons though, I hate crafting missions and not really interested in going to mrh to craft.  Forcing the options of having to travel or kill things are better to promote than crafting, so I semi-agree with the non-inflated story of what the situation is

[Mirax 117]

Not bothering with quotes, but to the folks who continue to fall back on the same tired arguments about taking away missions and rewards from home servers (or, for that matter, removing home servers entirely, which is the usual refrain)...

 

For the thousandth time, not everyone wants to play the game the same way.  This is the damn future of epic thread all over again, and again, and again.  Don't penalize those who play primarily on home servers because they don't play YOUR way.  I'm tired of this same argument over and over and over again.  Tired of being called a care bear or implied that somehow the home servers are "less than" because our desired percentage of PvP game time or play style or RL limitations on our play time are different than yours.  Doesn't move the game forward, just alienates and drives wedges in between people who might otherwise be PvPing with/against you more actively if not for this pervasive attitude.  

 

I think by and large those who do play mostly on home servers who have commented in this and the previous thread have been fairly magnanimous and gracious in agreeing that there should be a correspondingly higher scenario point award for elevation and enemy home server missions vs. home servers.  And the magnanimous and gracious response we get back is - why thank you, we think you should get nothing?  Come on.

 

I also find it a bit disheartening as well that there has been so little discussion of the scenario rewards mechanisms, as that seems to be one of the largest problems with Valrei as it stands in the game today - the seemingly rigged lottery.  And I say this as someone who has seen both sides of that system, being screwed over and also reaping the benefits.  If that's fixed so it's fair, and you're getting more points because of your admittedly riskier environment in which you are doing said missions - what is the problem?

 

We're all people, playing on the same cluster - a cluster with rapidly dwindling population.  I'm just sick of the cliquey schoolyard crap when it comes to this issue.  Let's focus on moving things forward.  You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.  Play the game you want, I'll play the game I want.  I'm not arguing to take things away from you, in fact I and my kind are generally volunteering and/or agreeing to give you MORE by way of increased scenario points.  Please don't argue to take things away from me.

[changer 459]

7 hours ago, Mirax said:

Not bothering with quotes, but to the folks who continue to fall back on the same tired arguments about taking away missions and rewards from home servers (or, for that matter, removing home servers entirely, which is the usual refrain)...

 

For the thousandth time, not everyone wants to play the game the same way.  This is the damn future of epic thread all over again, and again, and again.  Don't penalize those who play primarily on home servers because they don't play YOUR way.  I'm tired of this same argument over and over and over again.  Tired of being called a care bear or implied that somehow the home servers are "less than" because our desired percentage of PvP game time or play style or RL limitations on our play time are different than yours.  Doesn't move the game forward, just alienates and drives wedges in between people who might otherwise be PvPing with/against you more actively if not for this pervasive attitude.  

 

I think by and large those who do play mostly on home servers who have commented in this and the previous thread have been fairly magnanimous and gracious in agreeing that there should be a correspondingly higher scenario point award for elevation and enemy home server missions vs. home servers.  And the magnanimous and gracious response we get back is - why thank you, we think you should get nothing?  Come on.

 

I also find it a bit disheartening as well that there has been so little discussion of the scenario rewards mechanisms, as that seems to be one of the largest problems with Valrei as it stands in the game today - the seemingly rigged lottery.  And I say this as someone who has seen both sides of that system, being screwed over and also reaping the benefits.  If that's fixed so it's fair, and you're getting more points because of your admittedly riskier environment in which you are doing said missions - what is the problem?

 

We're all people, playing on the same cluster - a cluster with rapidly dwindling population.  I'm just sick of the cliquey schoolyard crap when it comes to this issue.  Let's focus on moving things forward.  You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.  Play the game you want, I'll play the game I want.  I'm not arguing to take things away from you, in fact I and my kind are generally volunteering and/or agreeing to give you MORE by way of increased scenario points.  Please don't argue to take things away from me.

well you see sweetheart, there's a reason to take the effect away from homeservers, because it would not only increase pvp where the few that would actually go into enemy territory to do missions would do that now instead of sitting on their homeserver, it would also reward the people who actually creates the pvp, you know, what valrei was supposed to be, what epic is supposed to do, it's a pvp cluster.

 

If you bring a canoe to a 100 meter dash contest, don't expect people to call onto your ###### when you start screaming about how you're entitled to the gold medal aswell even though you're not part of the race because you decided not to run.

 

The homeserver people will still be able to play the game, they just won't be able to reap the rewards of the valrei system because they didn't run the race, they didn't create pvp through going into enemy lands to do missions, they just sat there on their homeserver canooing around on land cutting trees and killing rats, which again isn't what valrei was supposed to be.

 

and it's hilarious that it's always the players who play this game the most that complains about how long it will take to do (something with risk in it) or how long it will take to go to hota etc, I don't know about you but the rest of the ones that complains about this change certainly is like that, they don't want to pvp, they don't want to risk themselves to get rewards, so they should get no rewards.

 

risk vs reward, it's that simple, if you don't put any risk in, you won't get any rewards. Either because you decided that the time spent to get the reward is not worth it, or that the risk versus the reward is not worth it.

Edited March 29, 2016 by changer

[Josh 477]

Remove homeservers. Go to ele or go to freedom

[dingov 826]

my #1 problem with valrei is the stupid easy missions decreasing the move timer by 12 hours and a god moving 8 tiles on valrei in 1 day is ridiculous. 2nd problem is the people sitting in their hug boxes in the center of a homeserver winning these pvp orientated sorcery items for sacrificing 40 wool hats while my friends and me spend hours catapulting and raiding deeds in enemy lands for our points. i would love to see scenario point rewards and decreasing god move timer removed when doing them on your own homeserver. i think this would increase pvp by forcing people to go in enemy territory and actually take a risk for winning items that are for pvp.

 

as for the sotg changes and these people posting that 25% damage reduction is useless. pls.....  you will all stay insanity because even 25% damage reduction is still strong.

[Firestarter 1,210]

54 minutes ago, dingov said:

my #1 problem with valrei is the stupid easy missions decreasing the move timer by 12 hours and a god moving 8 tiles on valrei in 1 day is ridiculous. 2nd problem is the people sitting in their hug boxes in the center of a homeserver winning these pvp orientated sorcery items for sacrificing 40 wool hats while my friends and me spend hours catapulting and raiding deeds in enemy lands for our points. i would love to see scenario point rewards and decreasing god move timer removed when doing them on your own homeserver. i think this would increase pvp by forcing people to go in enemy territory and actually take a risk for winning items that are for pvp.

 

3 hours ago, changer said:

The homeserver people will still be able to play the game, they just won't be able to reap the rewards of the valrei system because they didn't run the race, they didn't create pvp through going into enemy lands to do missions, they just sat there on their homeserver canooing around on land cutting trees and killing rats, which again isn't what valrei was supposed to be.

 

When was it ever explicitly stated that the missions were only to promote PvP?

 

I would've thought the inclusion of crafting and tree cutting missions from the very beginning suggests that it's always been intended to cater for a broad audience of players, not just exclusively ones hell-bent on doing all things PvP.. Just makes me wonder where all this business about a PvP agenda came from, really. If Valrei was meant to promote PvP, surely we'd have missions based on raiding, draining and maybe even "kill x amount of enemy kingdom players" missions, instead of "make hats".. So if you look at it from that angle, surely the broad range of missions we do have suggests Valrei is intended for ALL types of players.

[Mclovin 2,590]

On 3/28/2016 at 0:50 PM, SmeJack said:

Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Cooldown on exiting local of enemy players, crossing servers, disabling teleporting into enemy presence and alerted deeds First part is good, disabling teleporting into enemy presence removes setting traps and the alerted deed should be allowed for legit villagers which is why a cooldown after joining is all that is needed to stop the whole kingdom coming.

You obviously don't understand the problem for the attacker is having the enemy team jump into the deed that's getting raided. We raided Tideland 5 times and after the second time it was probably obvious that we were going to raid again and again, so even if a CD was on, you would already have your people set village for Tideland, this renders any CD inaffective, you would always have the most front-line deed set as your karma point to get around any CD, being able to karma in on an attacker to a deeded gatehop with NO EFFORT in getting there is ridicoulous,  But the attacker brings supplies, cata's in, climbs the slopes, drops down the slopes, battles gaurds or w/e defence is already there... the CD has no effect on deeds being sieged / drained daily - It's a terrible mechanic to support and I would accept the Enemy In Local mechanic...

Now Ik most of MR actually logged in and didn't karma - which poses a different problem - But it was an example of how a CD is ineffective over a pattern of raiding...
But VD/Rome have used the karma spell to quickly defend a deed.

People who support the mechanic want a easy defence. Travel to it like the attacker does.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Mclovin

[dingov 826]

im under the assumption valrei is to promote pvp based on the extremely pvp oriented rewards.

[changer 459]

6 minutes ago, dingov said:

im under the assumption valrei is to promote pvp based on the extremely pvp oriented rewards.

and probably because it's a pvp oriented reward system on pvp servers on a pvp cluster

[DrB 41]

On 3/28/2016 at 0:05 PM, Redd said:

Being successful at raiding essentially is who can spend the most time catapulting vs building lol, defending hardly comes into play anymore.

 

I feel that raiding has moved away from being "fun" to just being a grind of whoever's will is stronger.

 

That pretty well sums it up.  Defending isn't fun, but you have to do it or risk tle deed getting flattened and losing everything.  The current system seems one of extremes due to how players actually play.  I'm guessing the original though was that someone would just take down a tile, get inside, get some stuff, get a drain, and leave.  Making these types of raids more fun is a fine goal; however, there are other raids which are just "obliterate the deed" type of raids where changes made to make the prior type easy, make the later type easy to the point of being griefer-esque.

 

This also goes a prior post about kingdom rosters.  The gist being MR had 1000, other PMKs having hundreds.  Many of those are bots/alts solely to act as alarms for twitter or ways of holding your stuff so it can't be taken in a flattening raid or just lockpicked.  I'm not sure having any sort of PMK "size" restriction isn't going to be harmful because of that.  Someone mentioned having a cap negatively impacting the ability of friends to play together -- and that is true (and why I am also against caps).  

 

Other MMOs looked at side imbalance by buffing and other temporary mechanics:

1.  Warbirds (1990s-2000s flight sim) did it by using their map.  High population got the map as normal.  Low population got the map with enemy force lines.  Their map had a grid superimposed (like our letter/numbers but with lines as well) and in each block they got a red line with the size of the line indicating relative # of enemy aircraft there.  This allowed them to strike or defend more cohesively and prevent the surprise attack by the large country.

2.  WW2OL limited respawn rate by putting in a delay on respawn when strength deviated.  I don't know how that would work here except by increasing timers on catapults/mining/etc -- but we already have a defense bias. 

 

I'm not saying to use these, only throwing these out to get the brains flowing of other ways to handle dramatic imbalance.  (Oh, the above were based upon "who's online" not "who's a member.")

 

 

[Madt 1,178]

30 minutes ago, DrB said:

 

That pretty well sums it up.  Defending isn't fun, but you have to do it or risk tle deed getting flattened and losing everything.  The current system seems one of extremes due to how players actually play.  I'm guessing the original though was that someone would just take down a tile, get inside, get some stuff, get a drain, and leave.  Making these types of raids more fun is a fine goal; however, there are other raids which are just "obliterate the deed" type of raids where changes made to make the prior type easy, make the later type easy to the point of being griefer-esque.

 

This also goes a prior post about kingdom rosters.  The gist being MR had 1000, other PMKs having hundreds.  Many of those are bots/alts solely to act as alarms for twitter or ways of holding your stuff so it can't be taken in a flattening raid or just lockpicked.  I'm not sure having any sort of PMK "size" restriction isn't going to be harmful because of that.  Someone mentioned having a cap negatively impacting the ability of friends to play together -- and that is true (and why I am also against caps).  

 

Other MMOs looked at side imbalance by buffing and other temporary mechanics:

1.  Warbirds (1990s-2000s flight sim) did it by using their map.  High population got the map as normal.  Low population got the map with enemy force lines.  Their map had a grid superimposed (like our letter/numbers but with lines as well) and in each block they got a red line with the size of the line indicating relative # of enemy aircraft there.  This allowed them to strike or defend more cohesively and prevent the surprise attack by the large country.

2.  WW2OL limited respawn rate by putting in a delay on respawn when strength deviated.  I don't know how that would work here except by increasing timers on catapults/mining/etc -- but we already have a defense bias. 

 

I'm not saying to use these, only throwing these out to get the brains flowing of other ways to handle dramatic imbalance.  (Oh, the above were based upon "who's online" not "who's a member.")

 

 

 

You hit all the nails on the head there.

 

In the past, atleast from my experience, people raided simply for a bit of fun, getting into deeds and looting, draining and leaving. Heavy damage and griefing wasn't really used back then anywhere near as much as it is now. Now the goal of some factions seems to be obliterate the deed and demoralize the  defending side so much that they leave the game. It's a real act of strong animosity in the present day.

 

There is a low population bonus that kicks in when one kingdom is less than a certain % of the server population, however I don't really see that kick in much recently. JK got it on Chaos over the christmas holidays as most were offline seeing family etc, but other than that it doesnt seem to happen. I don't think HoTS get it either. Maybe that feature needs tweaking to bring it inline with today's numbers, I'm not sure.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

I do not understand the rush to nerf sotg before any of the other path's are balanced.

 

Players without sotg don't have a chance in hell taking 2 huge ax hits, that is your problem.