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Retrograde

Upcoming PvP changes

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  •     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation

remove all rewards and god movement from home server missions, friendly and enemy, all valrei related stuff should be on elevation only 

make elevation missions spawn much more frequently in enemy territory and for god sake give us more mission variety that actually encourages pvp, not just sac 2 mission items, kill 40 wild cats, do ritual on thing that's in a safe spot near deed or walled in by kingdom etc

 

 

  •     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps

reset all current rank/max rank and remove decay or up the decay time to month(s)

 

 

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Also I didn't comment on the sotg + leather / cloth thing.
If you get hit with the leather cap or the cloth hood, enjoy taking full face damage
Will be a nice buff to archery I guess? Shooting gone players in the eye every day

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Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured

 

This can only work if the guards do not respawn. Else the capping timer will everytime be interrupted, as the guy capping will be targeted once they respawn...

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6 minutes ago, DrB said:

Can't embark in combat could be nasty.  It makes entering combat a "to the death" event. Think about that from a raid standpoint..one arrow, and you're stuck if you came by boat.

 

I agree, there should always be an option for a tactical retreat (and i guess even Hashirama will agree, if he s not sold out yet)

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32 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Changes

 

  •     Remove Information minister. +1
  •     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Keep twigs and karma teleport, maybe alter it so instead you may not teleport to a deed token unless you've been a member of that deed for 3 days.
  •     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. +1
  •     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. No, -1 Unless your stunned maybe, but if there's a spare few seconds of not being hit it's totally plausible to jump on a horse and giddy-up outta there.
  •     Addition of Archery keybinds. +1
  •     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. Neither for nor against.
  •     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. -1 to cooldown on searching for the same person. Not a big issue though.
  •     Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. BIG -1! A raiding party should have to breach a deed and reach the token before they can start disintegrating the reinforced walls. This would make raiding far too easy. Also, what do you mean by remove magranon bonus?
  •     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc +1, in favour of anything that provides more insight.
  •     Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers -100 No no no no no no. This limits that ability to the rich only whilst making life harder for the rest of us.
  •     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation I don't know what this is so, yeah. :P
  •     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Sure, why not.
  •     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps +1
  •     Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. -1, how would it be made easier? We need to know so we know how defenders would counter this so we know it's fair.
  •     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable ??
  •     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers That sounds like a bugged loophole so yes, definitely. +1
  •     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Yeah sure, +1 Aslong as the guards respawning doesnt stop the timer or anything.

 

 

Shield of the Gone

SotG has been a long term issue with PvPers, and it is quite clear that it is too powerful in its current state.We currently have two proposed changes, which are listed below:

  • Reworking SotG to only work with Cloth or Leather armour, moving a SotG character to being lighter without sacrificing protection (being slightly more than steel plate, but lower than scale/moon plate) yet not be the current tank that it is. -1 Instead just lower the %'s to a more fair level than what they are now. Then we can see how that works. We don't want to make SoTG useless for all those who worked to get it, just not OP as it is now.

 

  • Alternatively, remove the ability to heal from Life Transfer and all healing spells. This moves the SotG character into a strong fighter in a short melee, but in drawn out conflicts becomes very fragile. Don't think that would do much really, people would just bandage themselves in safety within a group.


Feel free to provide feedback on which scenario you'd prefer to see, either of these changes will also come with the ability to swap from Path of Insanity to another path with no cooldown.

 

 

Other changes that have not yet been discussed include

  • Removal of oakshell from mounts (player targets only).
  • Resistance to healing spells/cooldown.
  • HotA changes.
  • Many many more, feel free to ask about them! Indulge us, please!

 

When providing feedback, for the sake of clarity and easier cataloging, please provide which server you play on, if you play on both feel free to say so, but also indicate your main server.

 

Chaos Server

 

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With this many bad pvp changes why don't you slow down and make a server, or use epic since most of these bad suggestions have the stench of epic anyway, with these rules and do some live research for a year to see if they do in fact promote pvp.  Isnt the challenge server sitting dormant right now?  

 

It seems like several of the proposed changes are directed at degrading larger kingdoms and rewarding smaller groups.  On Chaos the minimum requirement to make a kingdom is 25 players.  That number should also be used as a measuring stick or guide when making any pvp adjustments especially as invasive as the ones suggested here today.  For example, if people are failing at raiding because they only brought 5 players the game is working as intended and they should not be rewarded with changes because they lack the social skills required to play a MMO.  If it is the goal of the developers to completely dumb down kingdom vs kingdom pvp then it might be a good time to look for another game to earn my disposable income.

Edited by madnezz
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* Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus.

Are u guys nuts no deed would be safe or defendable from raids this would cause so much fights on the forums & also lead to a lot more people leaving epic / chaos

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Good changes:
Information minister

Archery fix

Missions (but not to the extent it should be )

Battle rank

 

The rest of them are insignificant excluding the sotg change.

I mean. If you want to make players LEAVE the game instead of bring players in.... go ahead?

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Just now, madnezz said:

With this many bad pvp changes why don't you slow down and make a server with these rules and do some live research for a year to see if they do in fact promote pvp.  Isnt the challenge server sitting dormant right now?  

the last thing chaos and epic need right now is less population due to a challenge server.

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1 minute ago, Erinyesthegreat said:

* Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus.

Are u guys nuts no deed would be safe or defendable from raids this would cause so much fights on the forums & also lead to a lot more people leaving epic / chaos

Why would this make deeds undefendable....?

No deed would be 100% safe no matter what, sure... just as it should be.

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To me it feels like the following changes imbalance the game too much towards the attacker without providing anything to the defender.

 

    Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus.
    Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers
    Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids.
    Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured.

 

Here are my specific comments:

 

- The token should be the primary item of defense on a deed. An attacker gets both a drain and access to safe mines via disintegration once they've taken the token. By removing the requirement to have a drain first you have essentially made it very possible for attackers to just loot the safe mines without ever getting to the token

- Increasing deed costs also increases the amount that an attacker receives from a drain while making it even more expensive for the defender

- Longhouses and the dirt/rock walls that accompany them take an incredibly long time to build with lots of effort. Experiencing a very, very bad raid also seems to be an exit reason for many who have tried WURM PVP. Making it easier for an attacker to break in just increases this problem. In real life raids/sieges took a long time, they should in Wurm too

- Capping a tower is already difficult unless it's a battle camp. Increasing the difficulty in the way described will make it close to impossible to do.

 

Other comments:

 

- Archery towers are currently a non-entity in PVP. No one even worries about them at all. Perhaps balance can be achieved by making archery towers useful for deed defense

- Many deed raids seem to occur when no one is logged in. It's actually how the planning is done in many cases. How about making it so a raid can't start unless someone is logged in to defend or unless 12 hours have elapsed since the attack force arrived?

- Increase deed costs but reduce guard costs especially if the attack start time idea above isn't implemented

- Make battle camps more of a challenge to capture. Currently one round of guards and then wait out a timer

 

 

 

 

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Some good ones.

 

The deed cost? Is that to found and buy tiles or upkeep too? If its upkeep its a -1

 

And make sure raiders have to drain token before they can og trough reinforced. Or else all weaker and smaller Kingdoms and accounts will quit after they are raided over and over again.

 

But good to see a update on pvp server!

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46 minutes ago, DannyNG said:

body strengths health gain should give more at lower levels and less at higher levels

Something that we'll be looking at later down the line when we come to addressing combat!

 

Rising deed costs

The issue with the current cheap deeds is the ability to place a deed and convert, taking all the towers in the area, deeds should be strategic in their placement and not a cheap way to snatch land, raising the prices may not be the right way to go, but there is something that we need to address

 

collapsing houses

Currently houses stay through the use of floors, walls and parapets, the intention of this change will be requiring just the ground floor to be removed, from there the building would collapse and we would not be left with untouchable houses.

 

Tower capping.

Currently an easy way around it is simply kiting the guards around while one solo person caps the tower, if the action cannot be interrupted, we could simply require that the guards be killed within the time limit,

 

SotG changes

The ability to change paths to an equal level would be a part of ANY change.

 

again, none of this is set in stone, so please do give actual feedback on WHAT you find is the issue

 

27 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

You're also missing a need for a change to alt abuse on Chaos. Could i suggest a limit on number of times an account can spawn at any one deed apart from it's capital city. This would stop people spamming free alts to run into enemy groups for free intel when being raided. Personally i think everything worked a lot better before we had the 20fs requirement to gain rank/fs/affins and non prems on the server. Back in the days when this was the way things were people didn't spam their alts at the enemy because simply, they would get yelled at by their own friends for feeding the enemy rank and affinities. Make it only apply to freedom if you think people would abuse it, or make the server premium only again but for gods sake deal with the alts please.

That's also on the cards for discussion, thanks!

 

 

Easier raiding

The counter of this would be mechanics to make sticking around much more difficult, increasing guard difficulty over time or other such features. Any changes to raiding will most likely be longer term, and are simply included here because feedback is always good

 

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4 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Why would this make deeds undefendable....?

No deed would be 100% safe no matter what, sure... just as it should be.

no need to drain token just walk right up to deed tunnel in and break reinforced wall, yea ur right not making it easy

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

collapsing houses

Currently houses stay through the use of floors, walls and parapets, the intention of this change will be requiring just the ground floor to be removed, from there the building would collapse and we would not be left with untouchable houses.

I didn't know I subscribed to Jenga! :L

 

(I get it makes literal sense, but what's the point of multiple stories then?)

Edited by Oreo
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Just now, Erinyesthegreat said:

no need to drain token just walk right up to deed tunnel in and break reinforced wall, yea ur right not making it easy

The only reason the term "safemine" excist and is used is becouse the devs made it extremely hard to get into them.

Think of other ways to store your items.

also, safemines dont "defend", they merely provide easy peasy storage.

Start thinking about how to defend the deed against attackers rather than just throw things into a mine.

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5 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

collapsing houses

Currently houses stay through the use of floors, walls and parapets, the intention of this change will be requiring just the ground floor to be removed, from there the building would collapse and we would not be left with untouchable houses.

 

 

This is seriously bad.

If something this ludicrous is done, I'm finished with this game.

 

Instead, why not just fix the shitty catapulting mechanics.

Edited by Brunwulf

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I just hope you guys are willing to listen to a LOT of feed back on these ideas. Too many of us are used to having things slung into the game and left there for years while we cry about them ever having happened in the first place. I trust that the team is different now and i hope you'll all take the time to see why your post has just scared a lot of people and if done as currently suggested would cause havoc and many people quitting.

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Just now, Brunwulf said:

 

This is seriously bad.

If something this ludicrous is done, I'm finished with this game.

Why is it bad? should raiding be harder because you have to do more tedius work?

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1 minute ago, Zekezor said:

The only reason the term "safemine" excist and is used is becouse the devs made it extremely hard to get into them.

Think of other ways to store your items.

also, safemines dont "defend", they merely provide easy peasy storage.

Start thinking about how to defend the deed against attackers rather than just throw things into a mine.

ok smart guy u tell me how deeds with low numbers defend without losing everything. Then cause they lose everything they leave epic / chaos even less pvp on server ur rly smart guy

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1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

Why is it bad? should raiding be harder because you have to do more tedius work?

raiding is dead easy atm. to build a long house you need 20 bricks and 20 mortar per wall, to take it down you need 5 rock shards and a catapult... 

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1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

Why is it bad? should raiding be harder because you have to do more tedius work?

 

It takes a huge amount of effort to build up rock/dirt walls and the accompanying longhouses, in many cases months of work.

 

When you then make raiding even easier, measured in hours for most raids currently, then you are making the balance even worse.

 

Yes, the work is tedious. If you haven't experienced defending a deed while a member of a small kingdom against a strong enemy force with high end accounts that keep coming back over and over again for weeks and months at a time then you need to play the PVP side of the game before making a statement like the one above.

 

If the game makes it too easy for attackers then why would anyone be a defender? Why pay for a deed that can easily get destroyed every time? Why put time and effort into building a defendable deed anyway? Perhaps the solution will be to make a small deed, build a cave, put a bed in the cave, use logged out bank alts to store your stuff and just like that the problem of needing to defend anything largely goes away.

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To be honest I am trying to understand SOTG change.. Every one in PVP has it. If they dont have SOTG, but have something else and are crying that they cant fight, its their problem. They have an option to grab a rug and change the path.

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Why is it bad? should raiding be harder because you have to do more tedius work?

Raiding is tedious because the mechanics are tedious, and haven't been improved in years.

Improve on those instead of just making it easier to bust down players hard work.

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