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Retrograde

Upcoming PvP changes

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Finally got to the end of the thread after a cursory read. :lol:

 

Some other thing's I'd like to comment further on;

 

The SoTG suggestion 1 that makes leather and cloth more viable, I think even with that SoTG would still be the path all pvp'ers must choose in order to compete. People would simply wear cloth from then on and gain the movement speed bonus of cloth while having the protection of plate. This would make anyone who isnt SoTG need to wear either drake or not fight at all as if they wore plate they'd be extremely slow compared to all the non SoTG players and  therefore they'd be the primary target every fight. And the only way around this would be to get SoTG yourself so you can move as fast as everyone. Thus creating another unwanted requirement for pvp.

 

*Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids.

I know your aim here is to make raids less boring and more pvp focused and action packed, faster paced, which I want too. However things like longhouses and dirtwalls are there to delay the attack in order to give the defenders time to assemble a group able to take on the raiding party. You must first consider a number of things when taking such changes into account, such as:

 

-The attackers always have the advantage of knowing when the raiding of a town takes place. The defenders are caught completely off guard and usually attacks are purposefully done in the worst time for the defending party.

-The attackers will almost always have far more numbers and higher skilled fighters present. The defenders will only have the few they can pull together who happen to be online or reachable at the time.

-The attacking party can choose to avoid fighting at all. They can happily stay at their catapult, out damaging any repair attempts on longhouses and defensive walls and flatten any dirtwalls safely while the defenders sit and watch helpless. Open field pvp in wurm will always favour the side with more numbers. Everyone will just drop like flies in a matter of minutes until all of the smaller party are dead, as are some of the larger party, but with most of their force remaining the larger party will be the victors everytime. That's why the defending party need a retreat to fight from safely until they can do enough damage to the attackers and start to overpower them.

Basically, if you remove the effectiveness of longhouses and dirtwalls etc as defense, from then on raids will take less than an hour. Plus the attackers can easily completely remove a deed overnight, which is ridiculously silly.

 

The way wurm pvp works there is no way to make the two sides fight in fast paced combat in the open unless they're both even in numbers. Raiding isn't that hard as is, it's just very long, tedious and boring until fighting happens.

We need to come up with a way to fix that.

 

*Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus.

Again, this would make it far too easy for the attacking party in raiding deeds. They'd just setup a safe mine (a mine with a very high QL steel door on that is totally reinforced from the inside) and mine their way into the town mines and access the deed from there, completely bypassing the defenses built above ground. Also as someone else pointed out the defenders would have no way to fend this kind of attack off, they'd have to pretty much sit and wait until the attackers mined and disintegrated through then fight them there, but they'd all die within minutes as mentioned earlier due to being heavily outnumbered.

Also, in this sentence I don't know what you mean by remove mag bonus? Do you mean the disintegrate spell? Bit confused by the wording so if you could clarify what that means exactly I'd be grateful.

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Ive already designed a deed that cannot easily be disintegrated through and the safe mine is unreachable without catapulting. Also its not like disintegrating is easy. When you encounter multiple layer of reinforcement its like pounding your head off of a brick wall. I'd rather bash steel minedoors any day of the week. It would likely hurt older deeds but for more modern designs it changes little

 

Ive thought of a new annoying mine meta in the last few minutes, contact for memes

Edited by Postinglels

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50 minutes ago, Madt said:

The SoTG suggestion 1 that makes leather and cloth more viable, I think even with that SoTG would still be the path all pvp'ers must choose in order to compete. People would simply wear cloth from then on and gain the movement speed bonus of cloth while having the protection of plate. This would make anyone who isnt SoTG need to wear either drake or not fight at all as if they wore plate they'd be extremely slow compared to all the non SoTG players and  therefore they'd be the primary target every fight. And the only way around this would be to get SoTG yourself so you can move as fast as everyone. Thus creating another unwanted requirement for pvp.
 

It seems that the dev team can't figure out a way to make all different armors viable.  Making SOTG work with cloth/leather but leave out plate/chain.  So now plate smiths will be like chain smiths, relatively useless on pvp servers.  Who is going to be running around in plate after this change?  This just forces non-top tier pvpers into cloth/leather as well as SOTG. 

 

These proposed SOTG nerfs are just rearranging deck chairs on the titantic.  pvpers cannot last when focused down by huge axes.  Most normal players die in a couple of shots in a few seconds.  SOTG is part of the pvp game now.  Look at retro's list of changes, most do not directly address pvp itself, just the meta game around it (albeit much needed and some good suggestions mixed in with the bad ones).  No mention of balancing damage, CR, damage reduction, weapon balance, armor balance, etc.  Only a massive nerf to SOTG. 

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10 minutes ago, Graymane said:

These proposed SOTG nerfs are just rearranging deck chairs on the titantic.  pvpers cannot last when focused down by huge axes.  Most normal players die in a couple of shots in a few seconds.  SOTG is part of the pvp game now.  Look at retro's list of changes, most do not directly address pvp itself, just the meta game around it (albeit much needed and some good suggestions mixed in with the bad ones).  No mention of balancing damage, CR, damage reduction, weapon balance, armor balance, etc.  Only a massive nerf to SOTG. 

I've also stated several times that those changes are coming, but are longer term changes that require much more time spent balancing and testing.

 

I'd like to see some core concerns of pvp mechanics and meta addressed in the short term while we work on the loinger term project

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:
10 hours ago, GoG said:

It's not unbalanced if EVERYBODY has the choice/ability to reach it.  It's like any other advantage in Wurm, effort = advantage.

yes it is, if its to the point that you require it to be effective

 

By this logic FS, Body Str, Weapon Skill, and Shield Skill should be changed so that we don't have to grind them up just to be able to land a hit before dying. Like many others have said if SoTG is nerfed badly other paths will take its place. Then we will be back at it again to nerf the new meta.

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Updated the OP with some clarifications and removed some items!

 

There's always been a vocal group for sotg, but in order to achieve any terms of game balance it needs work.

 

Retrograde, you went back and forth with someone on page 8 about SoTG being a requirement to be able to PvP, and that is simply not the case.  I'm a freedomer that sometimes goes to Chaos to PvP, and never once has my kingdom (JK) told me "sorry Warg, stay back and hold the fort, we're only raiding with SoTG players tonight".   I'm not sure what MR tells their "cubs" on raid night, or who gave you the wrongful impression that PvP doesn't happen without SoTG, but you're mistaken.  

 

PvP is not about SoTG, it's about Numbers.  I'm not scared to fight because I don't have SoTG, but I'm hesitant to fight if there's 1 of me and 4 of them (with OR without SoTG).

 

 

Edited by Wargasm
Extra line breaks removed.
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20 hours ago, Brunwulf said:

Both suggested SOTG changes are dumb.

 

Agreed - its not as if SoTG comes easy - why ruin the mechanic completely.....

 

-1 for SoTG changes.

 

Generally happy with the rest.

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1 minute ago, Oats said:

 

By this logic FS, Body Str, Weapon Skill, and Shield Skill should be changed so that we don't have to grind them up just to be able to land a hit before dying. Like many others have said if SoTG is nerfed badly other paths will take its place. Then we will be back at it again to nerf the new meta.


Not really, since FS, Body strength, Wep skill and Shield skill are all base fighting attributes that you need to be able to fight at all. SoTG is a bonus that should be optional just for that little boost, like Mag fighting bonuses. At the moment however if you choose the option to not use it, you're at a great, great disadvantage. The reason it's become so heavily used is because it's so powerful. If being a mag priest was this powerful, and everyone went mag priest, that'd then require a nerf.

No other meditation path gives you such a huge advantage over those who don't have it. Some mention knowledge, that's just 25% faster skillgain. Not really comparable to reaching Gone level of insanity and suddenly having 50% damage reduction. Nor does Healing Hands (Love lvl 11) Stam of Vibrant Light (Power lvl 11) Spell immunity (Hate lvl 11) compare to SoTG. If SoTG didn't exist I'd be torn between going love path for the healing bonus, or Power for the stam bonus. Both of those are decently good and even. As it is now I'd choose SoTG over all any day, without hesitation, because it's the most powerful bonus by far. That's wrong and shouldnt be the case.

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Remove Information minister. The 'x has entered the kingdom' messages are problematic only
Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Not on big maps, where it can take hours to just travel. I could only see this work on 2048*2048 sized maps (or smaller obviously)
Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. Never really understood the point of the archery penalty
Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. Would change PvP as it is by a LOT. It might be worth experimenting, but should probably be very careful
Addition of Archery keybinds. Just QoL, so always good
Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. This is asking to remove the only thing that makes them even remotely dangerous. Instead, they should have long cooldowns between throws/stuns
Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. Only if both these suggestions are implemented at the same time. Priests (with half favor usage) can spam locate soul like crazy.
 
Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc Absolutely yes
Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps That, or change the name of 'battle rank' into something else
Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable Yes, and make it much harder for merchants to get taunted depending on how many other merchants are around it.
Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers Yes, it seems to make no sense as it is now
Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Just keep the timer, make it so combat won't interrupt the action timer and make sure the guards only walk up to several tiles away from the tower. 

 

 

I cannot really see how any of these changes will affect the pvp population. They're mostly just small balancing tweaks

 

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37 minutes ago, Retrograde said:
12 minutes ago, BrQQQ said:

Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Not on big maps, where it can take hours to just travel. I could only see this work on 2048*2048 sized maps (or smaller obviously

 

 

With a 5 speed hell horse it isn't taking hours. We can go from the NW deed in MR lands to the SE deed near VD in 15 minutes, not like you have to navigate difficult terrain on this map.

Edited by Mclovin

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1 minute ago, Mclovin said:

With a 5 speed hell horse it isn't taking hours. We can go from the NW deed in MR lands to the SE deed near VD in 15 minutes, not like you have to navigate difficult terrain on this map.

So 5 speed hell horses become another requirement?

 

Thought that the aim of at least part of this was to keep down the barriers for new players to be involved.

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@Retrograde

The idea with leather/cloth is ok if you make leather/cloth helms viable or remove eye/face shots completetly. Cloth actually gives quite a bit of glance and damage back if you hit on it, I still remember dueling Jack Burton with his full 90ql cloth set with ASOP  and huge axe, the guy would mess you up...

But path of hate should be tweaked too..It shouldn't be dispelled. Also path of hate, true strike and a huge axe will still be dangerous to every1 if SOTG does get tweaked... [I wont pretend to know the %'s or the scale] but make it so path of hate only works with 1h weapons maybe or cap the damage. If we want to talk about new players particapating and look at how body works with damage/hits taken...Then we could focus on making path of hate a capped damage, so that it's more of a path for new players fighting older players, such as the damage would cap as if you had 55 body str, but from 55 body str the damage gets scaled alot harder acording to your stats/weapon skill so you're not OP as ###### and making this SOTG still viable for vets with the higher bs..

Edited by Mclovin

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9 minutes ago, Gaeron said:

So 5 speed hell horses become another requirement?

 

Thought that the aim of at least part of this was to keep down the barriers for new players to be involved.

 

9 minutes ago, Gaeron said:

So 5 speed hell horses become another requirement?

 

Thought that the aim of at least part of this was to keep down the barriers for new players to be involved.


5 speed hell horses have been a 'requirement' on epic for a while now, not so much chaos.
JK actually spoke with retrograde in removing some speed traits from HH's and even removing the rare/supreme speed crap and having just an armor bonus on HH veruses regular so the speed factor wasn't there.
So i agree with the taking away requirements, but, 31bc isn't that bad to get...I mean we should take away a bar that flat out makes your odds crap in pvp and requires 6+ months of grinding [sotg] But when we get new recruits they typically get 31bc in 2-4 weeks of grind and whilst they are limited to a regular horse for their first 2-4 weeks...We've had plenty of recruits particapate with us just fine, we slow down and we make sure we're not out-running them/make sure they are backing out before we withdraw. This 'requirement' can be worked around as a team and with a little dedication can be overcome, isn't a flat out nerf like sotg.

Edited by Mclovin

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2 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

Retrograde, you went back and forth with someone on page 8 about SoTG being a requirement to be able to PvP, and that is simply not the case.  I'm a freedomer that sometimes goes to Chaos to PvP, and never once has my kingdom (JK) told me "sorry Warg, stay back and hold the fort, we're only raiding with SoTG players tonight".   I'm not sure what MR tells their "cubs" on raid night, or who gave you the wrongful impression that PvP doesn't happen without SoTG, but you're mistaken.  

 

PvP is not about SoTG, it's about Numbers.  I'm not scared to fight because I don't have SoTG, but I'm hesitant to fight if there's 1 of me and 4 of them (with OR without SoTG).

 

 

Same when I started with Ebonaura and the same with MR.  I've never been told "no", I can't participate in pvp by anyone.  It is encouraged.  Now, you have to be smart enough to know that if you are in the front, in plate, get targeted and webbed, you are gonna die, but oh well, play smarter.

 

The only time I question it myself is 5 people in a sailboat.  If you are the weak link, you get your whole team killed.  "Get Good" doesn't just mean SOTG, it means get better fighting skills all around and learn the game.

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Well, I read through all that, think I'll throw my two cents into the mix now.

 

For those who don't know me, I play on Epic (Serenity), I'd say 95% of my time on home server, maybe 5% or less on Elevation.  This is not because I don't want to PVP or fear losing my gear or anything like that - there are a number of factors, none of which are really germane to this discussion.  And it could change, for sure, but I do consider myself a home server player, no question.  I also consider that a valid playstyle of the PvP environment contrary to what some may say or insinuate.  Nevertheless, let's not get off on a tangent - I put that out there so it's clear where my perspective is coming from, that's all.

 

I find myself largely agreeing with Gary and Sme, which I seem to have been saying a lot in threads about the PvP servers and future of Epic/the game in the last few months.  And I am heartened to see that, on many issues, a lot of people generally agree in principle...sure, SotG and others are gonna get most of the press and back-and-forth, but a lot of quality of life or bug-fix type tweaks seem generally supported.

 

Since this is going to be exceedingly long for most people's taste (though I do hope staff takes the time to read it, at least), I've used a spoiler below to preserve the eyeballs of the casual thread skimmer.

 

In particular, my thoughts:

 

Spoiler

Remove Information minister.
Doesn't really apply/impact me in any way on home server, seems the consensus from the thread is to remove the ability but not the office, no opinion from me.

 

Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers).
I think, as has been said, this is extreme.  Some sort of reasonable (and dare I say realistic when teleporting is involved?) restrictions or system would make the most sense.  I should be able to use my karma to teleport to my deed, or use other means and abilities to do so...deed or starter city...but not allied deeds or quick changing of villages for the purpose of PvP response/massing/defense of allied deeds, etc. etc.  

 

Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces.
While I'm in favor personally of removing the penalties as all the mechanics stand now, because I always wear plate like most other sensible people - I believe this was a move toward providing some usefulness for other armor types, among other things.  I think this comes back to a question that was asked around page 7 about the overall goals/vision for the Epic and Chaos servers (and to a lesser extent the Freedom cluster)...what is the vision of the different armor types?  Because as it stands, there has not been any meaningful reason to wear cloth, leather, or chain in almost all circumstances for a long, long time.  If the intent is to, at some point in the next year, make other armor choices viable for different playstyles in some real way (and not just - well, you can move a bit faster or shoot a bit stronger), then that will largely govern my opinion on removing or not removing the penalties.  If it's just token gestures like as have occurred, and the de facto standard will remain a minimum of steel plate, and that's OK with the vision for the game, then yea, remove the penalties.  If not, then it may be unpopular, but leave them in if this is part 1 of a multi-part effort to balance armor with meaningful pros and cons a part of a larger vision.

 

Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.
This seems unrealistic and a bit foolish.  IMO, you should always be able to mount ANY horse/other mount animal in combat (barring being stunned or the usual).  So then we have to look at vehicles.  I don't know of people PvPing with wagons (lol), but wagons/large carts - I still don't see why you couldn't hop on in combat, or how that helps/hurts.  There are tradeoffs like everything...if someone is one hit from death but hops on a large cart driven by a buddy, who is alive, and the horses aren't dead somehow, and they can drive out of there, more power to them.  The opposition can archer the horses, the driver, or finish off the player - chase on their own horses if not dead - or the player escapes because the opposition failed to remove that large cart and its horses as a get away vehicle, etc. etc.  Lots of possible permutations there that, either way, don't seem to be overpowered or underpowered or somehow game-breaking.  

 

Boat PvP is, again, one of those things we need to talk about vision and overall plans.  It makes up a big part of the (admittedly only ~30 or so) engagements I've been in in my last 3 or 4 years with the game.  What the intent is (and yes, I know it's a sandbox and emergent behaviors are hard to predict/control) governs a lot of what, if any, tweaks should be made to embarking/fighting on/from/escaping in boats.  As it stands right now, without an explanation of vision or intent, I'd say tweaks need to be made to boat embarking/PvP (I'm sure there are plenty of ideas for specifics regarding timers, embark range, etc.), but leave mounts and vehicles alone.

 

Addition of Archery keybinds.
I think is pretty much universally seen as a QoL improvement without anyone shooting it down, pardon the horrible pun.
  
Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd be in favor of leaving it in - with some changes.  It's annoying, but the real problem IMO is being thrown into locked areas that are not your own/allied/etc.  Or thrown from a boat or off a coast road into water, while in your plate, low on stam from fighting, to be left to drown, have to use last gasp, eat a sammich, whatever as your only recourse to have a chance at survival.  On land, it leads to people picking in/out, or bashing in/out, or just generally wasting time because they were hunting and an eagle threw them into someone's animal pens and now they need to spend 2 hours calling for help, picking, bashing, whatever.  And it disproportionately hurts newbies/younger players more than veterans - who generally have more body strength, more lockpicking skill, more experience avoiding the problem, more friends to come bash/pult/whatever, etc.  If there's no code way to make sure they only throw you into non-enclosed areas (admittedly that might be a hard thing to do), then remove the throw.  

 

Stuns, I think, are realistic - these are supposedly creatures who come from or are summoned by the gods on Valrei, they should be pretty powerful and tough to fight - especially given the chance of seryll and potions.  Perhaps look at the durations in respect to other high-end creatures, champs, and uniques, and scale accordingly.

 

Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person.
While I agree a change needs to be made (a raid group running with priest NoLo right now, at least in my experience, is pretty damn near hard to get any locate hits on despite several high-end priests trying - it just becomes a massive favor sink), I don't think making it exactly the same as jewelry makes sense, either.  There should be something in between what we have now and what the jewelry currently offers.  After all, it takes a priest with the skill to cast, the favor to cast, and keeping it up on everyone in a group, it should offer some additional protection over a passively-cast piece of jewelry.  But it shouldn't be this impenetrable thing, or something that requires 1000s of favor to break through.  On an equal-for-equal basis, for example, if I have a 90 faith 90 channeling priest, let's say vs. a 90 faith 90 channeling priest who noloed his group of people...and assume both my locate cast and his nolocate casts are equal strength...I should have to expend some effort to break them, at a rate higher than the effort he expended to cast it.  What that exact ratio is, I'm not sure.  Somewhere more than 1 cast and less than 20 or 30, I'm sure there would be variable opinion on exactly what is right.  For me, I'd say 5-10 is realistic for me to break through - again, assuming equal strengths and forgetting about the RNG lottery for a minute here.  How this is accomplished with the code and the strengths of the casts, etc., those details would need to be fleshed out further.  I'm talking about the mechanic itself and the resources/protection offered vs. a jewellry-cast NoLo, and how it can (or can't) be countered, and what the effort and resources are involved in countering that.  Balance, but balance that gives the protected some protection and requires those seeking to locate someone to expend some effort and resources, without making it this impossible, several-hours-of-favor-mats making task, because then it's just OP.

 

Alternatively, removing priest NoLo entirely might be a valid option, though I would think something would have to be added to replace the lost spell or it further devalues priests.

 

In regards to a cooldown, I don't quite understand the point, and/or it seems like an unnecessary mechanic that will be counter-productive.  Fix the underlying mechanics, don't add more complexity on top.  Balance the effort vs. the reward on both sides of the equation and problems will be solved.

 

Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc
A revamp of the combat reporting system would be most welcome as a major QoL improvement.  The details are important, of course, but there has to be a better way to get real-time information on everything going on, without you needing to read at the speed of light, and/or infer a lot of information that isn't posted.  Not saying you need to reinvent the wheel here - when in doubt, imitate the success of others.  Look at other games that use text-based reporting and mirror/improve on that.  Utilize the new uh, for lack of a better term, center-of-screen large text reporting, utilize color, look at what the players need to know in regards to combat and ways to communicate all of that information succinctly and in ways that provide instant feedback.  There's a reason aircraft have tons and tons of gauges and buttons and not just scrolling text reports.  Not saying change the whole UI, but learn the usability lessons of HUD design and user feedback as to what they need to know, when they need to know it, and how the brain receives, interprets, and processes that information.  Verbosity is not necessarily the answer, either.  Maybe for after-the-fact analysis but not in realtime - adding more scrolling text in a melee is not going to help, exactly.  A lot can be conveyed with sound, color, image, etc. quicker and in a less cluttered manner, and even the long wall of text can be better presented and summarized...kind of like this paragraph, if I just said TL:DR improve combat tab.

 

Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation
Brace yourselves, as this is probably going to be the longest section of my reply yet.

 

There's a lot that needs to be looked at with Valrei/scenarios/missions, and I think that's been said here and elsewhere time and time again.  I am reminded again of trying to fix things piecemeal vs. fundamental overhauls, and the practical considerations of reality usually being a mix of the two.  Nevertheless, I think there are few key points with the changes as proposed/mentioned in the prompt, as well as common themes from groups or factions of people, that deserve to be addressed in the short-term, rather than as part of a longer-term overhaul of what, admittedly, is supposed to be part of the "goal" or "end-game" of Epic.

 

  • Missions
    • Further tweaking needs to be done to mission generation.  Not saying some shouldn't be harder than others, but they should all be doable.  If the mission is going to request 40 anaconda be slain, for example, there damn well better be some figure in excess of 40 anaconda alive on the server at that time.  Personally, based on other figures we've inferred from things like valrei mission item sacrifice missions, I'd say a 2-3x ratio of alive vs. needed as a minimum requirement.
    • A lot of progress was made in the last year removing bogus items that could not be created, items that should not be part of missions (such as saccing seryll lumps), etc.  I'd like to see that pruning and tweaking continue, and it being about a lot more than just numbers - about the difficulty, skill, and time/resource investment needed to complete a mission, and some normalization based on that.
    • Would also like to see some more mission variety added in at some point, perhaps rotations over time that get rid of some of the same tired things and add in new types, though that's more of a variety/retention thing than anything critical
  • Interface
    • The in-game map interface was a nice addition, but it still is buggy a LOT of the time vs. outside tools like Strikelimit.  It should be the other way around, if anything.  Needs tweaking to work at least as well as third party interfaces based on the same data set.
  • Griefing
    • There have been some incidents of griefing, using the commune function to intentionally mis-path dieties to the wrong hexes.  While I generally don't support this, I don't know how it could be addressed, and seems valid inasmuch as those people obviously have the points to be able to do the commune, they should have the right to spend them how they want.  The problem seems to mostly arise from PMKs and, to a lesser extent, enemy same-kingdom alts.  Don't know what should or could be done, if anything, but I think worth noting here.
  • PMGs
    • Player-made-god missions - don't quite know how, but this needs to be tweaked, such that with the changes in kingdom favoring for these gods, impossible missions don't stick around (or simply aren't part of the rotation for PMGs).  "Drain a settlement token" is fine when it favors an enemy, but when it's your own home server and friendly, it's not doable, and the PMGs stagnate on Valrei as a result.  Either the PMGs should have always-neutral-type-missions that enemies (with a bit more work of course) or friendlies could accomplish, or some other tweaks.
  • Points
    • Despite being a home server player, I'm going to agree that there should be some scaling for Elevation to get more points for missions that inherently present greater risk or hardship.
      • Ideally, I'd like this to be based on mission types - i.e. cutting a tree, building a shrine, etc. should give more points on Elevation, but saccing some crafted items, in my opinion, should not, for example.  Would have to go through the various types and this isn't all-inclusive, but if we're truly talking risk vs. reward, let's make sure we keep that as the overriding goal.  2k points for traitors, trees, mission structures, rituals/towers, drains, killing things, etc., 1k (same as home servers) on saccing crafted things or crafting/making things as 1) they can be made on home servers and brought over, 2) they can and likely are made from the safety of within a deed/capitol.  Some argument could be made that there was greater risk in setting up that deed or capitol, or obtaining the materials on Elevation, though I would counter all that can be boated/portalled in as well.  Could go either way on the saccing Valrei mission items, as they are in theory riskier to get on Elevation - but while it remains that the items are interchangable from mission to mission, and between home servers and Elevation, I would be wary of changing that.  If they're made mission-specific, yes, 2k for Ele 1k for home servers. 
      • Not the end of the world if you just want to make it a blanket 2x on Elevation for all missions to keep it simple in code and player understanding IMO. 
    • For enemy home server missions, I think it's reasonable to award 2x points here as well.  It's an enemy home server, you have a CR nerf, you had to travel there - there's risk involved, even if the current population trends make that a more theoretical risk than a practical one at present.  In theory this should encourage more travel to enemy home servers, thus more PvP encounters and incidental raiding/destruction/fun.
    • I'd also like to see something that has long been discussed - for building epic structures, and similar missions in that style - please, for the love of Valrei, reward all players who participated.  YOU ALREADY TRACK their participation %s, visible on the final structure when examined (sidebar:  though there's a decimal off in there, %s add up to 1.00%, not 100.00% - also, can we remove/drop all names from this that are 0% so it's not a long ass list of every person who ever played and their 0% contribution?  Seems like that's taking up a lot of database space unnecessarily - space that could be freed up to track things that are useful, such as that discussed in my next bullet point below), so there's no reason the person who added the last piece should get all the points, leaving everyone else out in the cold.  I realize it's kind of pointless in the current iteration for most home servers as all structures are done as far as I know - well at least JKH and MRH - but the principle is valid and would hold for future servers/resets/remaining structures on BLH or Ele, and similar type missions in the future.
      • That same principle SHOULD be brought into play if at all possible for other large build missions, such as a Colossus, ship(s), etc., things that take multiple people a lot of time to build...I would just expect it to be far easier with the structures since the information is already clearly tracked in the database vs. requiring new tracking, possibly new methodologies (such as for boats) that are far different than the structures (which more closely mirror the Colossus analogue).
  • Home Server vs. Elevation
    • In no case do I think missions, scenario points, karma, Valrei terraforming events, or anything else in the current system should be removed from home servers - you'll simply further drive people either to Freedom, away from the game, or to Elevation, and in all cases, if the "away from the game" percentage of that equation is >0%, it's a losing proposition. 
    • With tweaks to make Elevation, a higher risk situation, offer higher scenario point rewards, this further solidifies the case for keeping home server Valrei participation as is.
      • Without getting into a flame war or anything too controversial, I can't help but notice a lot of the people who are always clamoring for home server missions to be removed are one of two groups:
        • Those who have no home server - the PMKs.  While I can understand wanting to benefit oneself, that was kind of a known quantity when becoming part of a PMK, and the solution should not be to negatively penalize other players for their own decision to be part of a PMK.
        • Those who play almost exclusively on Elevation, and don't like being in the lottery with the home server "carebears" who won't "use" the reward items to the satisfaction or "benefit" of the PvP kingdom, as they see it.
      • Both of these stances marginalize the home server populations for the benefit of those two groups of people, rather than being part of some larger balance or game play issue, and as such, I don't believe deserve a great deal of change or tweaking, since there is no underlying game problem but rather personal enrichment at issue.
      • Both of these groups should, however, be somewhat mollified if true effort vs. reward is more accurately reflected in how things work, both in terms of point awards as per this section, and the overall reward lottery as per the next section.
  • Rewards
    • While it may be true that the lottery for the scenario rewards, based on points, utilizes the same RNG as everywhere else (with some exceptions, such as the minimum 300 point barrier to entry, etc.), it still SEEMS to most of us (at least on Epic) who spend a lot of time doing missions and accruing points, that it disproportionately rewards people with a small number of points in a scenario vs. those with the larger amounts of points.  I'm not convinced there isn't some bug in the code algorithms that determine the rewards.  But even if there isn't, some meaningful changes need to be made - not a "he who has the most points wins QQ more" system, that would be equally bad, but some balance that doesn't seem like it's always the people with 300 or 1000 points from doing 1 mission or killing a few critters for one mission who win the reward vs. someone with 12k, 15k, 20k points who did nothing but run missions for weeks.
      • For example, I know for a fact one of the recent scenarios rewarded two people of the three who received the items, who had only 1k points in that scenario, while at least 3 others had between 3k and 12k points each and did not receive items.  While in truly random systems, this can and does happen, the odds of it happening AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and enough people noticing this trend means there's definitely something fishy going on.  I don't know if it's 300 points then all points are tickets, or if it's 300 points per ticket, or what precisely is in the code, as I haven't bought WU or spent time decompiling it to figure that out, but I and others know there's something wrong.
      • Players who only can play occasionally or put forth a small amount of effort SHOULD be eligible for a reward, but those who spend tons of time and effort for days/weeks on end should be FAR MORE LIKELY to get the reward, and the current system is not reflecting that properly in the results, whether or not the code and math say it should be.

 

Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying
I'm not quite clear what's being suggested here, but I think we can touch on uniques in general a bit.  Aside from their existing role as potential traitors, etc., I don't see a need to involve uniques any further in the mission architecture.  Certainly not without a much more dynamic point tracking and assignment system that would award those involved (rather than just whomever gets the killing blow), and on a larger scale than the same amount of points for cutting a tree or killing a regular traitor creature.

 

However, it would be nice if there could be some meaningful changes to uniques.  Not necessarily making them easier but - given current population, even if, for example, those actively playing from JKE and JKH banded together (which rarely if ever happens due to internal politics), it would be very unlikely enough players would be fielded to take down a dragon, for example.  Not true a month or two ago, but now, it is.  Again, I don't have a specific suggestion here, I'd just like to see uniques being more accessible and not the provenance of the truly veteran groups only, nor requiring a miracle of the active population to kill.  Obviously this becomes less of an issue if population numbers are back up in the 100-200 range routinely, but as it stands now, they're not.

 

Finally, I'd like to see more variety in the loot/rewards aside from some blood and hide or whatever.  A skull, rare bone, etc. are nice, but, I don't know, potions, seryll, everybody who landed a blow gets a roll at a rare coin, whatever, something to make it more rewarding aside from titles and honor.

 

Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps
Agreed with most in this thread, missions should have nothing to do with battle rank, should not award rank, and the various discussions on decay and resetting ranks should be played in further detail.

 

Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable
I don't want to speak for Chaos, though from a game mechanic perspective, paralleling Elevation, it would make sense.  For home servers, however, this gets a big no from me.  It further hurts the game economy as legitimate trade hubs will dry up further than they already have with the lower population we've been seeing.  Plus, if people want to use them to store their own high-end items and set prices crazy high, etc. - they'll just store on alts if this mechanic comes in, and then you have a bunch more F2P alts for people to manage so long as they've been premmed once, they're good.  Does nothing positive IMO for home server merchants to be tauntable.

 

If the concern is use of untouchable merchants to store things at insane prices as a personal 50 slot "bank", you could do something like a maintenance fee based on the stated price of the items on the merchant on a monthly basis or something taken from the owner's bank, perhaps in lieu of the transactional sales cut that is currently taken - but again, that will either just drive people to super-secure their storage merchants in safe mines or elaborate forts and set more reasonable prices (50s instead of 50g), or stop using them and use alts, or both, while proving more problems/expenses/etc. for legitimate merchants.  So it's pretty much a losing proposition no matter what you do here, I would just leave it alone.  Unless there's another concern I'm not aware of that you're trying to solve with this change...

 

Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers
This seems like a bug fix to me and shouldn't even be up for debate, though I do understand including it in the PvP changes thread, but yea, bug fix.

 

Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe
I'll leave this to the Ele/Chaos folks to talk through in detail, as I haven't been involved in many tower caps.  From the few I have, though, and just common sense - would seem to support that in a real situation, all guards should be dead, and then you own the tower...like, kill all guards, tap the tower/1-3s action timer/something nearly instant, and you're good.  FWIW.

 

Shield of the Gone
Since it looks like the feedback on this is already running strong through this thread, and I don't have an SotG character, not going to go into too much detail here, except to say that, speaking for casual PvPers, it's seen as pretty OP, and one of the reasons I didn't personally choose that path, because I assumed (which, yes, was my choice, to my benefit or detriment) that it would eventually be nerfed, at least somewhat, as it inherently seemed out of balance with the other similarly-difficult-to-obtain abilities when it comes to PvP.  Making it a de facto requirement for the serious high-end PvPers, to the exclusion of other paths, seems imbalanced and an impediment to getting more people involved in PvP.  While I understand meditation is meant to provide longer-term players with some rewards, and reward perseverance through what is, admittedly, a boring skill (sitting on a carpet for 2 minutes over and over again several times a day), I don't think that jives 100% with the PvP environment - not unless there are choices of comparable time/skill/difficulty to be obtained that have different, though equally-powerful effects in a PvP setting.  Even if you don't PvP most of the time - it's a different animal when you're talking combat abilities in a PvP environment, you can't compare it to knowledge, for example.  So, meditation revamp, SotG revamp, rebalancing - something, lots of ideas and comments in this and many other threads, so I've said my bit on that.


 

In summary, I think a lot of these changes and tweaks are positive, and a move in the right direction.

 

There are a lot of details to be worked out, and I recognize my opinion is just that - my opinion.  Others will disagree, and that's fine.  I did want to make sure though that there was a voice here from the home servers, or at least that perspective, as some of us do play there, hours and hours every day, and invest a lot of time and money in this game, despite not being part of the elite/hardcore PvPers.  We still enjoy the game and find the playstyle just as valid as Freedom, or hardcore PvP on Ele/Chaos, and want to see the best for the game, so it will continue and population will rise.  And have valid opinions on game mechanics and PvP even if it's only a small part of what we do in-game and not our primary focus.

 

The MOST important thing is communication and dialogue - coupled with a vision of what you guys, as developers, want the PvP experience of this game to be or become.  We can all provide our input on that, but ultimately, the decision is yours, and hopefully could be communicated to us as a player and customer community in a coherent form at some point in the near future.  That way, even if I or he or she don't get their way on X or Y or Z, we might all at least understand why this or that change was made, in furtherance of that vision.  Both the communication and vision have been lacking in the past, and this recent focus and improvement (special shout-outs to Retro and Keenan for your efforts in this regard, despite opening myself up to accusations of ass-kissing now) has been most welcome and a genuine positive that makes me comfortable continuing to invest my time and money and effort in this game I love, that it will go on, continue, grow, and get better and better.  I hope my admittedly long feedback is useful in that regard, and thanks to those who took the time to read it all!
 

Edited by Mirax
Minor formatting and grammar fixes
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Missions on home servers should be enemy only, being on a server with a CR buff and no real threat shouldn't give any SP in a pvp world.

Make sailing faster so home-server missions can be reached faster without a 3 hour trip

Edited by Mclovin

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7 hours ago, Mclovin said:


Then you have the issue of people leaving local and using karma/twig/stone to escape the pvp because they dipped local for 5 seconds. Happened to you guys when you caught me/awardis/aus/permo/teal and Awardis used his insanity teleport to random teleport once you left local for 1 second, for an example among many from all kingdoms.

 

That's a really easy fix, if enemy enter your local then give a 1-5 minute or whatever cooldown before able to teleport.  Obviously same would apply for crossing servers with enemy in local to prevent cross->karma

 

9 hours ago, changer said:

and why should oakshell be nerfed again, it's the only good spell besides LOF which other priests has now, and heal, so if oakshell is nerfed it's literally only there for the heal spell.

 

If you want to get rid of it, flank them, and then dispel it.

 

It's not about nerfing oakshell, it's about nerfing oakshell on horses.  Assuming leather barding uses same dr as studded and chain barding same as chain, that's 50% dr and 55% dr from a heavy chunk of armor that slows your horse down a lot.  Oakshell is a 20 second spell that gives 80% dr with 0 movement penalty so a horse has superior tank armor and goes full speed.  I'm sure plenty of people remember what hell horses used to be like with tank armor going full speed naturally, and why it was a problem that was changed

 

38 minutes ago, Mclovin said:

Missions on home servers should be enemy only, being on a server with a CR buff and no real threat shouldn't give any SP in a pvp world.

Make sailing faster so home-server missions can be reached faster without a 3 hour trip

 

Lets be honest unless you sit outside the starter deed with the starter deed between you and the boat for ages so people can portal in a large group and get you there isn't really a whole lot of risk.  Boat+heal is a massive safety net especially when they go full speed, and nothing proposed here fixes that

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-1, make shield of the gone scale to your body/str, dont just weaken it to hell

Edited by Eagleyee

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###### SotG owners defending SotG when it's very clear it's very unbalanced compared to other paths. Get real.

 

I grinded 4 accounts to SotG. That's 4 accounts to 70 meditation. All of separate occasions. That's like 2 years of work to get my toons SotG.

 

AND I think SotG should be heavily nerfed. You fucks who recently acquired SotG accounts, I can see how ###### might not be "fair" but the logic ya'll are presenting is:

 

"Other paths suck. SotG is the best one"

 

THATS WHY IT NEEDS TO CHANGE YOU DIMWITS. >.>

 

I love the no healing from spells. Cotton should still work I hope :P

 

Edited by Banzai
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7 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

Retrograde, you went back and forth with someone on page 8 about SoTG being a requirement to be able to PvP, and that is simply not the case.  I'm a freedomer that sometimes goes to Chaos to PvP, and never once has my kingdom (JK) told me "sorry Warg, stay back and hold the fort, we're only raiding with SoTG players tonight".   I'm not sure what MR tells their "cubs" on raid night, or who gave you the wrongful impression that PvP doesn't happen without SoTG, but you're mistaken.  

 

PvP is not about SoTG, it's about Numbers.  I'm not scared to fight because I don't have SoTG, but I'm hesitant to fight if there's 1 of me and 4 of them (with OR without SoTG).

 

 

 

not really

 

i had no issue with going into a 5v25 at any time ever when i was on a boat with 4 other SOTG players. (and never lost a single one, ever actually. won a few with a CR nerf too, and a few without fo heals before anyone mentions that.)

 

 

do you know why JK doesn't tell you that? It's because they don't have the numbers to separate the SOTG and non-SOTG players. There aren't enough active SOTG players who would be there on the occasion PvP happens to be able to output the same amount of damage. It's the problem with low population kingdoms who also don't have the same active population of proper PvP-ready accounts. I don't mean anything by this, it's just the only course of action so its not really a choice. Kinda like Exactly like SOTG, it's not a choice.

 

speaking from experience here, leading rome/bl/macedon on occasion on both epic/chaos for many years now. if you don't have SOTG, if you aren't a fo priest, your only purpose in a fight is to be bait. If you aren't experienced enough to be bait, then you are a liability. (the obvious exceptions to this are large raids, instances when your kingdom is guaranteed to outnumber people by 2-3:1 like MRC, when your kingdom is just insanely small like sub 5 players, or when you are on a rare boat because you can afford one weak individual.) If you notice, these kingdoms have a reputation for being skilled at the game. Do you know why they have that reputation? They use the most efficient group setup in their already small kingdoms as they can afford (boats of 5 SOTG players, for instance.) and they abuse the ###### out of poorly balanced game mechanics like SOTG.

 

 

it's actually become a running joke between my friends that i play a game where its a key feature of the game to twiddle your thumbs for a year and then get that kindve permanent damage reduction. it's okay though wurm, at least you have a ts channel in your honor.

 

 

also, an honorable mention to all the people that have little to no pvp experience, like barely a year, trying to tell a PR rep he has no experience when his opinions are coming from interviewing 60-70+ people (a lot of them more experienced than the people calling him out)? lmao.

Edited by Propheteer
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Since it seems the devs want feedback and aren't entirely certain how to balance the combat aspects of the game what is the dev teams vision for what pvp should be if your soliciting our opinions to fit into this equation?  Anyone who plays pvp can and has told you unless your SotG and drake if another player with high skills wacks you with a 2hander your dead.  Go test this for yourselves.  This discussion needs to revolve around the gear load out before we discuss changes to something like SotG.  Look at characters speed and weight for something like plate compared to how much protection it actually offers in pvp fights.  You explain that you want to cut the meta, all games like this have the meta as an integral part of the gameplay, so its a moot point you just need to cut the exploits, ie ftp alt banks, the afk alts in boats and such.  Now on a meta level you should be addressing as devs the fact that a lot of real money passes around on the fringe of the game that the company sees nothing from.  Drake and Scale sales, rare sales, accounts and such which are sold for real currency.  From a financial perspective perhaps the company needs to look into systems bringing those sales more fully into the game so people are buying everything with silver not euros or usd.  That is probably your biggest meta issue right there, that being that people profit off the game to the detriment of the game and the company.

 

To get back to the pvp balancing though, please elaborate on your vision for the system- the big picture- because right now lots of changes coming doesn't really help us give you the feedback you have requested and the bullet points you have offered really are about 70% bad and the remainder really need to be more detailed.  We need changes absolutely so don't think I'm attacking the idea of change but please realize that we have already played with the same systems in place for years we can play a little longer with them if it means a more robust retooling of the system comes out of it.

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Why not just give SOTG a damage nerf. If you're SOTG you do like 15-25% LESS damage

 

If you wanna make it a really tough choice to pick between then make it so you do up to 50% less damage in exchange for taking 50% more damage.

Edited by Carmichael

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On 3/24/2016 at 6:01 PM, Propheteer said:

Epic player here

  •     Remove Information minister. - I hope it's not the office, just the enemy entered your land gimmick.
  •     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). - Yes please. I liked traveling, I liked having outposts in dangerous territory. Very nostalgic feelings about this.
  •     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. - Yes!
  •     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. - I'm not sure what this entails? But just reading it i can see it would not only create a lot of bug abusal scenarios, but could break boat PvP. Needs more specifics but i don't think this is a good idea.
  •     Addition of Archery keybinds. - Sounds good.
  •     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. - Excellent, they were the cause of many issues.
  •     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. - Excellent, once more.
  •     Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. - Excellent!
  •     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc - you're speaking to my heart. :^)
  •     Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers - I like this, it worked in the past, although, in the past we didn't have towercapping. Ill elaborate on this later in the post.
  •     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation - I like this, i also like the suggestion you brought up to me in TS about this too.
  •     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying - Not really good or bad, would be cool to go kill a dragon on a homeserver and get more than just the loot though.
  •     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps - I like this, should also slow down the rate of decay a bit though too. Might need tweaking if you do that.
  •     Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. - Need specifics, but sounds good.
  •     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable - Widely suggested.
  •     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers - Seems more like an old bug than a feature, but sure.
  •     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. - This would make towercapping nigh impossible. If you just removed towercapping and then upped deed costs slightly i think you would have a much more fluid campaign feel for land like we used to have. The higher deed costs used to prevent gatehop deeds everywhere, and the lack of towercapping made towerblocking deeds nonexistant.

 

other than that it looks great. The only thing i'm kinda bummed about is not having the twitter system scrapped.

 

 

I personally suggested this idea, the deed cost one as back in the day when deeds costed a lot, this wardeed trend never happened (there were other reasons such as no towercapping, which i mentioned). There were probably other ways to fix the same problem.

 

 

The SOTG changes, i feel like this should be something tested on challenge. Put it up for like a three month period, make everyone start with SOTG. Have a new mechanic for SOTG for the span of two weeks or something and at the end let people vote on which mechanic they liked most. Advertise the testing and maybe give out some cool rewards and i think you will make a lot more progress here with a lot more happy people. That being said, I do honestly hope it just gets flat out removed.

 

 

 

Also, don't be so vile. A lot of people asked for a lot of this stuff and it was posted beforehand so we could actually give feedback as to why each one would be good or bad, you don't have to call him an idiot to get your point across when hes just trying to please the larger community.

 

 

 

1. disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. - what about this would break boat pvp? boat pvp shouldn't be fricken hopping off and on a damn boat to win a boat fight. if you get off the boat, you should be fricken dead/done fighting. if you get caught off the boat, you shouldn't have the ability to get on real fast and get away. if this is suppose to be realistic, then that totally is NOT. and im glad this may be implemented. you shouldn't be able to hop on things and run off like a little cry baby if you start getting beat up. sit there and take it like a man/woman and fight. dont pvp if you're just gonna hop on and off things and out heal the other players by doing so. that's abusing the system and THATS why this must be implemented in the first place, cause of lamers that do this.

 

2. Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable - doing this would completely kill the merchant market and how players on those servers sell goods to other players, completely. people would spend less on merchant contracts, cause there'd be no point to selling items to players because they can just taunt the items off. people would only get these to lock them away safely deep in protected lands where no other player could reach it to hold items, and if it comes to that, then they might as well use an alt account to hold those items, cause you can hold more then 50 items.

so yeah, theres no point to doing this change. i'll just use 10 accounts that i've made premium at one point, and hold my items and not sell them freely to other players, and i guess attempt to sell them for the hour that i play a day. but then again, i wont have time cause i'll be working on my deed or busy actually playing the game.

2.1 doing this change, causes less time playing the game, and more time attempting to sell items and spam global chat channels.

 

the SOTG changes, i like both versions, you could possible even make it both i guess? like, if you're wearing heavy armor then you get a no healing buff on your player, until you relog and if you're wearing no armor, then you can be healed again? i like that idea. means its not entirely impossible to be healed, you just have to be completely safe and away from danger while you're naked to get healed. and also, you can be healed with cotton still, so its not that bad.

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I've gone through and removed some of them ore negative ones in the OP, and also added bold text explaining a few better, as well as adjusting them compared to the original premise

 

Changes

  •     Remove expanded Information minister functions removal of "x enters your territory"
  •     Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Cooldown on exiting local of enemy players, crossing servers, disabling teleporting into enemy presence and alerted deeds
  •     Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces.
  •     Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.5 second timer to embark, disruptable
  •     Addition of Archery keybinds.
  •     Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs.Until throwing/stun mechanics can be addressed
  •     Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person.30 second cooldown when Nolocate is effective, no nolo, no cooldown
  •  
  •     Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells,     karma and meditation buffs, etc
  •     Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation
  •     Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Neutral mission to slay x unique in x region, slaying faction receives god move reduction as if they completed a mission for said god
  •     Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps
  •     Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable
  •     Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on  PvP servers
  •     Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. Removal of action timer and requiring a certain amount of guards killed within a ten minute timeframe Remove interruptable action timer and be reliant on triggering the capture, then requiring a certain amount of guards required to be slain in order to capture the tower, or simply all guards slain within the timeframe, possible to scale according to local player count

 

SOTG

reduction to 25% DR until time for total meditation balancing is possible

 

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can we get the ability to put merchants on starter deeds  then? so then atleast we can still have a public trade area but it would require spirit templars to be killed before enemy can taunt or some coordination between tanking them and taunting? that'd be nice.

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