Posted March 25, 2016 40 minutes ago, Sharkin said: Just lower Sotg to about 25% reduction instead of trying to make a new feature out of it. +1 to this not make sotg realy useless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Remove Information minister. - yes Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). -yes Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. -scale accordingly Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. - no, backup horses are quite balanced currently, your hit chance is decreased drastically so you'll have to balance between actually hitting or having some protection Addition of Archery keybinds. -ok Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. -remove stuns, throws are fine Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. - no Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. - yes, should be able to mine out reinforcements similar to a vein, 5000 mining actions etc Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc - sure Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers - yes Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation - yes, disable scenario points from friendly home mission server (mag on mrh, fo on jkh, libila on blh), also disable the effect it has on valrei, but let it still give karma, as in it shouldn't reduce the timer of the god you did the mission for on the valrei board.If you want to influence the valrei board, or recieve items from it, you should risk yourself through dangerous missions which has the ability to create pvp, sitting on your homeserver inside the starterdeed saccing 5 spindles doesn't create pvp, going to an enemy homeserver or enemy lands in elevation does. Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying - yes, missions for uniques, missions for cap x towers etc Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps - yes, reset rank or create a new type of rank Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. - yes Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable - yes Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers - don't care Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. - meh local should be reduced to 40-50 or so tiles, within 50 tiles you'll most likely be able to shoot an arrow before the enemy runs, encounters will almost always result in pvp, with the current 80 tile local the enemy has to either be afk or be out of position (they fuked up) from their safe zone in order to be able to dehorse someone and create pvp, the vast majority of encounters right now doesn't result in pvp because one of the parties has enough time to react to the local in order to run. It'll also give way for new tactics, player skill will be rewarded as you'll have the ability to manuever smarter, flanking will become more viable etc. true strike has to be nerfed, having a 100% crit chance is just too op, anyone who isn't sotg will die in 1 hit. Remove it and replace with a new ability continuum should be put down to 10-15% sotg should be put down to 35%, give everyone a free ability to switch paths in turn balance valrei spells, tons are absolutely useless while there's a few that's game breaking, like true strike player gods should have never been put in but it's too late now, but instead player gods should have more limits, they can do absolutely everything and have little to no restrictions right now, limit their archery like fo had some years ago or something The more power & incentive to the aggressor & to the tactically, strategically & skillfully superior player, the better. It's not the defensive party that created the pvp, it was the aggressor, if the incentive to be aggressive is reduced (raiding is harder, harder to roam, easier to find enemy players in your land, metagaming like huge locals & info minister in general), the less pvp there will be. first valrei reward from a scenario win should go to the person with the highest scenario points, the 2 others should be given with the current lottery system scrap the entire favor system, it's unnecessary, let everyone be able to do player god missions anywhere at any time no matter kingdom etc i'd also advocate for 1 drain 1 convert policy for deeds, if you drain a deed, it should automaticly convert to the drainers kingdom & the drainer becomes the mayor, if the enemy wants to take it back, they can drain it back, the original defenders has the advantage considering they get to defend in the first place, deeds becomes less of a permanent X kingdom deed, it becomes more of a fluid gameplay playing on epic, got ~1000 kills over several characters, around 600 kills atm on current character Removal of oakshell from mounts (player targets only). - no, people can dispel mounts already Resistance to healing spells/cooldown. - no, reward player skill, not player numbers, heal is a 30 second timer, and if you can predict that someone will be damaged & if he won't die in that period, more power to you HotA changes. - elaborate Many many more, feel free to ask about them! Edited March 25, 2016 by changer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 New players are fighting an ever growing up hill fight to become competitive. Requiring 70 meditation to not be considered a free kill is a bit nuts. I like the the idea of giving 5% per Insanitly level with a cap around 30%. Helps new players get competitive quicker and puts Insanity more on par with other pathes. Also I think damage stacking is still an issue. Should an average account in plate really be able to be two shotted? Rare glimmer axe +25% dmg bonus + crit = insta gib. I would like to see a damage cap be implemented so you can't do more than a certain percentage of an armored opponents health in one shot with a melee weapon. This helps new players but takes little away from veterans outside of discouraging new players. For what it's worth, this is coming the view of someone with a character who has near 60 body, SotG, and among the highest fight skills in the game. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 Most of us on pve land using POK at the high levels don't have erm...30+ affinities AND sotg... So when people say that sotg = less skill gain, I just want to laugh 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, changer said: Remove Information minister. - yes Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). -yes Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. -scale accordingly Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. - no, backup horses are quite balanced currently, your hit chance is decreased drastically so you'll have to balance between actually hitting or having some protection Addition of Archery keybinds. -ok Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. -remove stuns, throws are fine Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. - no Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. - yes, should be able to mine out reinforcements similar to a vein, 5000 mining actions etc Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc - sure Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers - yes Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation - yes, disable scenario points from friendly home mission server, also disable the effect it has on valrei, but let it still give karma Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying - yes, missions for uniques, missions for cap x towers etc Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps - yes, reset rank or create a new type of rank Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. - yes Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable - yes Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers - don't care Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. - meh local should be reduced to 40-50 or so tiles, within 50 tiles you'll most likely be able to shoot an arrow before the enemy runs, encounters will almost always result in pvp, with the current 80 tile local the enemy has to either be afk or be out of position (they fuked up) from their safe zone in order to be able to dehorse someone and create pvp, the vast majority of encounters right now doesn't result in pvp because one of the parties has enough time to react to the local in order to run i agree shorter local would be a neat idea Outcomes: 1. You spot a player beyond local range, friend or foe? you dont know so approach with caution 2. Players can do ambushes and engage combat via archery before opponents can react to local, allowing for sneak attacks 3. Players bump into eachother in the woods without knowing and suddenly are in eachothers locals and thus archery range. unexpected pvp for both sides ensues Also agree with true strike. I remember fighting nahjo when i used the zombie milk and he was doing 80% of my health in single hits through 80ql plate and 50+ body strength by using true strike. Zombie milk was the only thing that let that fight last 13 minutes instead of 2 hits Edited March 25, 2016 by Alexgopen 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 Also, fix level 11 hate, absolutely 0 offensive spells should be able to reach you, dispel currently works (afaik) against level 11 hate, I think valrei spells works against it (someone pls confirm), dispel shouldn't work against 11 hate, no spells or valrei spells should. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 Just now, changer said: Also, fix level 11 hate, absolutely 0 offensive spells should be able to reach you, dispel currently works (afaik) against level 11 hate, I think valrei spells works against it (someone pls confirm), dispel shouldn't work against 11 hate, no spells or valrei spells should. So you're asking for the next meta to be path of hate fo priests with oakshelled hellhorses running around full speed and higher dr than anyone but champs while spamming heals with no resistances/cooldowns? Idk it seems like even worse imbalance than what we currently have Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Alexgopen said: So you're asking for the next meta to be path of hate fo priests with oakshelled hellhorses running around full speed and higher dr than anyone but champs while spamming heals with no resistances/cooldowns? Idk it seems like even worse imbalance than what we currently have horses should be dispellable, players not Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, changer said: horses should be dispellable, players not Still gives this meta: faster AND tankier hellhorses than BL or anyone who isnt fo, and good luck dispelling a horse you cant catch up to cant be hurt by any spells, only archery(LOL) and melee if you can even catch up to them running without armor (cross between buffed PoH and path of power elemental immunity) higher DR than anyone but champs bc of undispellable oakshell (pseudo SOTG) lower carried weight than everyone else because -20kg when no plate needed, and thus longer lasting stamina (pseudo path of power stamina) faster move speed than everyone else, even sotg in cloth if that gets implemented 50% damage bonus and +2 cr buff from path of hate unlimited heals all of the casted buffs undispellable very OP compared to everything else, and thats not even considering how insane it would be if you were a fo champ on top of all of this Edited March 25, 2016 by Alexgopen 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nappy said: To further elaborate on tedium of building a strong defendable deed here's what you need: Token house around token Tall rock/dirt walls at least 270 slope and usually multiple stacked tiles of them Anti-ramp mines at the bottom of the slope to prevent dirt ramps being used to get up to token level easily. Recently planting mechanics changed making it far easier to get into an anti-ramp mine then before To prevent lock-picking in through doors you use mine entrances with strong, 75+ ql steel mine doors so you build multiple entrance mines, one for each deed layer, all reinforced with gatehouses, steel mine doors etc. The token house is surrounded by multiple layers of long houses. The higher the better since it takes longer to destroy them which is what is required if someone wants to lower the dirt wall to make a ramp up into deed Multiple safe mines with steel mine doors so that enemies have to break in to more then one mine A donut mine around the entire edge of the deed featuring 5 - 7 layers wide of reinforced tiles so that one disintegrate isn't enough to break in. Time has to be spent setting up proper security permissions This stuff takes months of work especially if the team building the deed is small. Even if it was only weeks of work notice the time line. An attacking force can take a deed in hours negating months of work. It takes far more effort to build a proper defendable deed then it does to attack it and while this building effort is going on the deed is vulnerable to attack. In my opinion deeds are already too easy to break into. Making them easier still just negates the reason for deeding in the first place. it took 1 day for us to build vercellae, it's a very strategical position, same for trier which also took 1 day to build, there hasn't been a single attack on it to this point, over several months. attacking a deed (successfully) takes time aswell, you have to figure out the plan of the deed, you have to plan the strategy of the attack, where to attack, how you will get in, when you will attack, how many will come, the mats for it (took ~100k dirt to get into jk capital for example) defending a deed is so incredibly easy (if you know what you're doing) while attacking one is hard. increase damage from mauls to walls, minedoors should be able to be catapulted (100 damage per catapult shot) Edited March 25, 2016 by changer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 I think that this post needs to be more specific as to exactly whats being changed, the sotg however is another story -1 to both of those ideas. Either way it will make sotg basically useless and all of the players who have worked for so long to achieve sotg will at this point have wasted their time. I propose that sotg is weakened a bit as far as damage reduction and something els is implimented for players who have not yet achieved sotg so that they may actually have a better chance in pvp. And whatever this item/action or whatever may be, it should no longer work once sotg has been reached. Same shoukd go for all other paths. They need to be balanced so that every path in the end is equal. At that point it is up to the player to achieve, if you work tword it and achieve it, you deserve to have the benefit, if you havent worked for it than its your own fault that the other player is stronger. Also something needs to be done about meditation in general. Meditation takes way to long to achieve, this is why its such a problem..nobody want to set a timer throughout their day to log in and meditate, once the pathes have been balanced i belive the wait time on meditation ticks should be dropped and it should be allowed to grow as any other skill. The only wait time should be between questions. Hope my thoughs are of some use:) cant wait to see something good become of this! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Larry said: I think that this post needs to be more specific as to exactly whats being changed, the sotg however is another story -1 to both of those ideas. Either way it will make sotg basically useless and all of the players who have worked for so long to achieve sotg will at this point have wasted their time. I propose that sotg is weakened a bit as far as damage reduction and something els is implimented for players who have not yet achieved sotg so that they may actually have a better chance in pvp. And whatever this item/action or whatever may be, it should no longer work once sotg has been reached. Same shoukd go for all other paths. They need to be balanced so that every path in the end is equal. At that point it is up to the player to achieve, if you work tword it and achieve it, you deserve to have the benefit, if you havent worked for it than its your own fault that the other player is stronger. Also something needs to be done about meditation in general. Meditation takes way to long to achieve, this is why its such a problem..nobody want to set a timer throughout their day to log in and meditate, once the pathes have been balanced i belive the wait time on meditation ticks should be dropped and it should be allowed to grow as any other skill. The only wait time should be between questions. Hope my thoughs are of some use:) cant wait to see something good become of this! To be clear, nothing is being changed yet. This is a call for feedback. PvP changes must happen, and this is an invitation to be a part of those changes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 The instant teleporting should be eliminated unless its to your own deed. SotG should be based on body or body strength or a % of it; example: 50 body = 50 SotG 70 body = 70 SotG or at least, say, 75% of current strength or at least 50% would be fair. Information radar minister needs to go as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Suggestion for SOTG. Don´t change it but make it possible to change paths with the current level every 2 or 3 weeks. In that way it is one system the whole mediating and you can choose without a big fallside. Meaning that meditation is one big skill. Chaos MR. Edited March 25, 2016 by Wulfgarr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Retrograde said: Remove Information minister. - just the announcements Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). - only if it brings you into or takes you out of a PvP situation Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces.- just remove Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.- sure Addition of Archery keybinds.- yes please Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. - sure Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. - Cooldowns need explaining Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. - just remove mag bonus Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc - yes Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers - 100% way to go. - This is a use of meta play, make it so you can't switch kingdoms for a long time, six months? do not punish legit deeds. In fact I'd personally consider this type of action to an exploit and would make a bannable offence Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation - no opinion Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying - no opinion Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps - sure Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. - raiders already have the advantage, building defences is the tedium Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable - no opinion Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers - absolutely Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. - possibly so long as they appear a distance from the capper and can be taunted and dealt with before causing an interrupt. Spawning next to the capper and going "tag" isn't a good idea. 3 hours ago, Retrograde said: Shield of the Gone SotG has been a long term issue with PvPers, and it is quite clear that it is too powerful in its current state.We currently have two proposed changes, which are listed below: Reworking SotG to only work with Cloth or Leather armour, moving a SotG character to being lighter without sacrificing protection (being slightly more than steel plate, but lower than scale/moon plate) yet not be the current tank that it is. Alternatively, remove the ability to heal from Life Transfer and all healing spells. This moves the SotG character into a strong fighter in a short melee, but in drawn out conflicts becomes very fragile Don't change it twice, with the paragraph below you are looking at balancing all meditation paths. Whatever you should do should be a part of that. We don't need quick, we need right. I don't have it but I'd have to say leave it alone until the fuller meditation review happens. As this is a serious issue that should make the meditation review a higher priority. 3 hours ago, Retrograde said: When providing feedback, for the sake of clarity and easier cataloging, please provide which server you play on, if you play on both feel free to say so, but also indicate your main server. - MR Chaos A lot of mechanics may be delayed until we have a longer time frame to address balancing across a whole range of issues, such as priests, all meditation paths, weapons, armour, stats and combat in general. The initial aim is to improve PvP in the short term, and then address more balancing issues with a way of testing them out thoroughly, challenge round 3 is quite possible.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Retrograde said: I play on chaos btw... Remove Information minister. remove the "blah blah enters your territory" Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). lmao, this just makes hellhorses 2x as good Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. just remove the archery nerf all together Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. this is literally the worst suggestion, (rip backup horses, boats, living at all if you're dehorsed) Addition of Archery keybinds. +1 Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. +1 Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. -1 current nolocate mechanics are fine. Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. Why is magranon getting more nerfs without compensation? Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc +1 Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers Do you want people to live out of starter deeds? Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation I no longer play on epic. Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying +1 Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps unless you remove rank decay and make it so that all kills actually give rank, cause as of now I can kill multiple people and gain 0 rank because I am at 1500 and they are at 1000(which is like having no rank) Btw I am currently the highest rank on Chaos. Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. Iffy on this, raiding should be fun, however do you want people to start storing all their valuables on a different server/logged off on alts? like literally do you want deeds to even exist? Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable +1 Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers +1 Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. This is a bad idea considering that the timers for capping guard towers are really long and at any time the capper can randomly have a guard run out insta hit them and interupt them.. this suggestion sounds like it was put in by someone who has never capped towers before. Shield of the Gone Sotg doesn't need changing. SotG has been a long term issue with PvPers, and it is quite clear that it is too powerful in its current state.We currently have two proposed changes, which are listed below: Reworking SotG to only work with Cloth or Leather armour, moving a SotG character to being lighter without sacrificing protection (being slightly more than steel plate, but lower than scale/moon plate) yet not be the current tank that it is. Alternatively, remove the ability to heal from Life Transfer and all healing spells. This moves the SotG character into a strong fighter in a short melee, but in drawn out conflicts becomes very fragile. Edited March 25, 2016 by TradingAlt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 The tower change is there to prevent people from cheesing them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Retrograde said: Over the past two months I've sat down and talked with various kingdoms and factions in PvP, both on Epic and Chaos. Over the course of that time I have collected large amounts of feedback regarding issues within PvP and Wurm, and condensed that feedback for discussion with the development team. It's clear that Epic and Chaos, while both PvP servers face different challenges, what benefits one server may have little to no effect on another, so there's always the effort to ensure that balance is achieved across both clusters. The following is a list of changes planned for the short term, with a longer term overhaul of combat, meditation and priests being planned for later in the year. This list is by no means complete, and the aim of this thread is for open discussion on the upcoming changes. As always, please keep it civil, regardless of what kingdom you are from, we all seek to make PvP more enjoyable in Wurm, so avoid bashing other players or kingdoms. This is a Feature feedback thread, that means please provide actual feedback, negative comments or comments with zero input will be removed.Changes Remove Information minister. Remove the "Xxxxx enters territory", other functions are fine Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). Yes. If a compromise is met (ie. allowing people who have been a villager for 24+ hours), then please add a cool down to it after leaving enemy local to prevent leaving local / crossing border and immediately teleporting to safety. Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. Remove please. Scaling according to individual pieces (especially linearly as it is now) results in the hierarchical armor system that we have now. Alternatively, a role-based armor system could be developed, but that is probably too much for the current time. Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. Yes. It's dumb to teleport four tiles to safety while at dying. (EDITED - SEE BELOW) Addition of Archery keybinds. Yes, great idea. Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. Yes, especially for spirits that walk through walls. Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. Yes to making body cast work like jewelry. No to cooldown - it would make it too difficult to find people and reward having more priests (ie. the numbers issue that keeps getting brought up). Alternatively, return nolo to Fo and Lib as it was previously and give locates to Vyn and Lib to promote more thoughtful consideration of priest choice and larger amount of viable options for PvP priests. Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. Yes. Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc Yes. Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers I'm a bit skeptical of this. While it would probably decrease the overall number of PvP deeds, it could also increase the power of pay to win. Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation Great. Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying Yes. Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps Yes. Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. Yes. Perhaps scale (max) damage per hit to longhouses with height from dirt layer so higher walls take higher damage to discourage the use of multi-layer dirt walls (IIRC Fawkes suggested this a couple years back). Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable Yes. Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers Yes. Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. This could make it too difficult to capture the tower due to interrupts, although I'm all for longer / more difficult tower capping as long as it is balanced. Shield of the Gone SotG has been a long term issue with PvPers, and it is quite clear that it is too powerful in its current state.We currently have two proposed changes, which are listed below: Reworking SotG to only work with Cloth or Leather armour, moving a SotG character to being lighter without sacrificing protection (being slightly more than steel plate, but lower than scale/moon plate) yet not be the current tank that it is. I see a couple issues with this. First of all, speed is very powerful. A cloth / leather player on foot moves a LOT faster than a player in plate. When you are out of melee range, you effectively have a melee damage multiplier of 0, which is a hell of a lot more powerful than 0.5 as it is now. In addition, this would further increase the power of web armor, which is currently a problem due to no counter and the massive effect (cuts swing and movement speed in half, effectively 50% DPS reduction after first hit plus decreased movement allows wearer to move out of range for 0x melee damage, plus magnified by combining WA with lighter armors). I really don't like this option, it could change the dominant strategy from damage reduction to speed stacking. In addition, there's nothing to prevent stacking other DR buffs on top of it (ie. continuum, sorcery damage-type-specific buffs, etc.). Alternatively, remove the ability to heal from Life Transfer and all healing spells. This moves the SotG character into a strong fighter in a short melee, but in drawn out conflicts becomes very fragile. I like this option a LOT more. It makes SotG more situational and is a slight nerf to some priests. I do see one of the same issues as the other option though - no mechanic to prevent stacking DR buffs. Feel free to provide feedback on which scenario you'd prefer to see, either of these changes will also come with the ability to swap from Path of Insanity to another path with no cooldown. Other changes that have not yet been discussed include Removal of oakshell from mounts (player targets only). Resistance to healing spells/cooldown. HotA changes. Many many more, feel free to ask about them! When providing feedback, for the sake of clarity and easier cataloging, please provide which server you play on, if you play on both feel free to say so, but also indicate your main server. A lot of mechanics may be delayed until we have a longer time frame to address balancing across a whole range of issues, such as priests, all meditation paths, weapons, armour, stats and combat in general. The initial aim is to improve PvP in the short term, and then address more balancing issues with a way of testing them out thoroughly, challenge round 3 is quite possible.... I play on Epic On boats: while teleporting several tiles to narrowly avoid death is bad, this could have some negative impact as well. For example, the current meta in boat PvP is to kill the captain. When that happens, one person from the disabled boat hops off the passenger seat and takes over as captain. The proposed change would make this impossible, leaving this boat dead in the water for its passengers to be slaughtered. Instead of the proposed change, I'd suggest decreasing the range from which a boat can be embarked. Edited March 25, 2016 by MisterTeddy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, Keenan said: To be clear, nothing is being changed yet. This is a call for feedback. PvP changes must happen, and this is an invitation to be a part of those changes. It would help, a lot, if the Dev team could outline the objectives, expectations and design behind the existing PvP. A lot of us have similar but different ideas on what Wurm PvP is and often suggestions and arguments end up being heated because the arguers are not necessarily on the same page. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Gaeron said: It would help, a lot, if the Dev team could outline the objectives, expectations and design behind the existing PvP. A lot of us have similar but different ideas on what Wurm PvP is and often suggestions and arguments end up being heated because the arguers are not necessarily on the same page. The current objective differs by cluster. It can be best described that Chaos has a land-domination objective whereas Epic is a hybrid of land-domination on Elevation with the overall objective residing in the scenarios. Personally, I feel that the current objectives are antiquated and don't work for Wurm. That said, this isn't about changing those objectives right now. That's another discussion for a later time. Right now the focus is: What is broken. This was addressed when Retrograde went around to all the PMKs. How do we fix it. This is what you see here. Edit Another thought that has crept across my mind is that Wurm PvP is going through what PvE already went through. There's a definitive identity crisis happening, much like when the 'survival' aspect left PvE. Wurm has been shaped by players over the course of 10+ years. Combine that with the will of developers in and out of the team and some reactionary decisions in the past, what we have right now is rather ambiguous. I know that doesn't help, but what you asked to clarify is really part of the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Remove Information minister. - +1 Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). - +1 remove it completely Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces.- +1 Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players.- -1 could be issue u get off boat or you are on boat and get bugged and kicked off boat with no way back on. Addition of Archery keybinds.- don't care either way Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. - +1 Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. - +1 but I would remove locate completely from the game including any titles or artifacts that use it. Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. - don't care either way Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc - not 100% sure of details. Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers - 100% way to go. - +1 as long as it was for initial creation only. Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation - no opinion Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying - no opinion Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps - +1 Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. - -1 I think this is a really bad idea, you want people on chaos give the defenders new features to defend the deeds first, get players to chaos then work on it. Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable - +1 Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers - +1 Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. - I would just stop tower capture make people build and bash towers like old days. in regards to SOTG I'm easy either way, I do have a sotg account but happy no matter what happens, but i think knowledge path would be next target, if this happens. all I can ask is you balance the game overall, allow new people into chaos and give them more ways to live without being raided to the ground we need the player base up. Edited March 25, 2016 by shakys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Considering the change to make deed founding cost more would change absolutely nothing at all... How about if you drain a deed, then the off-deed towers that are "protected" by its no-cap radius become voulnerable and conquerable for a few days. That would pretty much solve the whole "spam deeds to hold land" problem and allow enemies to put down their own deeds etc. It would let people fight territory, promote pvp and all that jazz. Edited March 25, 2016 by Zekezor 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) .Nerf SOTG and watch 1 champion killing 5 nerfed sotg accounts with just 100% crit cast and mag hammer. Nerfing SOTG means overall damage, champs, artifacts, sorcery items - all have to be looked at. As for all the other suggestions, they do seem +- legit. Edited March 25, 2016 by bangzuvelis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) The following is a list of changes planned for the short term, with a longer term overhaul of combat, meditation and priests being planned for later in the year. This list is by no means complete, and the aim of this thread is for open discussion on the upcoming changes. DO NOT WASTE TIME ON BAND-AIDS, JUST FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.... PERSONALLY I'D RATHER WAIT AN EXTRA MONTH FOR A PERM FIX. Titles: Suggested: Remove Information minister. - Removing the entire title is wasteful, instead remove the "player has entered your territory" - Remove all titles from template kingdoms because they are too easily abused and can easily be taken by alts of other kingdoms and they require no investment or risk... these titles should be earned and defended - Limit the titles so each character can hold only 1 title at a time - Add a permenant title to the character for being awarded a title from their kingdom - Put a cooldown on titles, when a kingdom appoints someone to office, that office cannot be changed for 60-90days? Village/Kingdom Defense: Suggested: Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). - This is just a blanket fix for karma teleport which has no limits... - Farwalker items have been ingame for many years and has never been an issue. - A very simple fix is for karma teleport to only work if you have been a member of the village your trying to teleport to for 7 days. Suggested: Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable. +1, doesnt affect me, but i dont think people should be able to store anything on merchants or alts (unless the alt is premium) Suggested: Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers. I realize what your trying to do, but this is not a good way to go about doing it... - Require deeds to have a minimum number of premium members that have been active within 7 days and if it drops below, then the deed draws double upkeep and takes damage as if it were offdeed. - Require deeds to be planted within their kingdoms influence and 10+(random number i pulled out of my bum) kingdom members within the planned village limits (who all become villagers). Suggested: Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. - this is becomming far to complicated... just make it simple... Example: if someone attempts to start the cap timer, all living guards should change agro to this person(like setting off a settlement alarm) and when the 180second timer finishes 10% chance of tower cap success and 90% chance the tower spawns a shitstorm of guards and you have to start over... Open Field PVP: Suggested: Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. - Very simple fix, just have archery penalty ignore helmets, because there is only 1 type of helmet available in pvp... and thats plate. - This not only encourages more archery, but also encourages the use of other armor types. Suggested: Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. - This is a terrible suggestion, for the one time that this is abused, there is 5 other times where this would discourage pvp - Boat pvp everyone will always target the captain because if the captain dies nobody can embark as captain to move the boat... Suggested: Addition of Archery keybinds. Doesnt affect me i use the button in action bar. Suggested: Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc +1 but combat logging needs to be removed so PEOPLE cannot use 3rd party PROGRAMS to assist them in PLAYER vs PLAYER NOTE: yes i am aware how fast the combat window moves when its more than 1vs1, thats what makes it exciting, this is a game, play it yourself! not let a program tell you how to play it... Suggested: Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps +1 Suggested: Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers. +1 this should be an obvious fix... and im 90% sure if was not intended to work like this from the begining. Suggested: HotA changes. - the HotA area should have a no-deed, no tower zone within 100-150 tiles from its border like the shroud Spells: Suggested: Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewelry with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. - Body nolocate should be far supperior to a an item with cast... just shorten the length of the cast time, set it for a max of 10-15 minutes for body nolocate... Suggested: Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus - Huge -1.... no idea why anyone would even suggest being able to disintegrate tiles, raids would be too easy and it would not encourage more pvp.. just encourage more draining and less defending... who is going to login their toon if they know there is a good chance the enemy will already be ondeed surrounding them when they login... +1 for mag disintegrate bonus being removed... Suggested: Removal of oakshell from mounts (player targets only). - companions are already nurfed to death, no need to make it worse - instead companions need to be buffed to be useful instead of taming only being useful to equip horses and tame hellhorses to ride, we need our combat pets to join us in battle! Suggested: Resistance to healing spells/cool-down. - offensive spells have a cool-down, why not healing spells? Epic: I don't play epic, so my input in these area's do not matter Suggested: Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation Suggested: Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying. Suggested: Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. NOTHING TO DO WITH PVP WHATSOEVER: Suggested: Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. - New players already start with 50ql longswords... please dont remove the only bit of challenge left in the game... - if it absolutly must be fixed, just shorten the stun timer to 3-4 seconds and leave the throw... (i enjoy watching people get thrown from their boat and drown) Shield of the Gone SotG has been a long term issue with PvPers, and it is quite clear that it is too powerful in its current state.We currently have two proposed changes, which are listed below: Reworking SotG to only work with Cloth or Leather armour, moving a SotG character to being lighter without sacrificing protection (being slightly more than steel plate, but lower than scale/moon plate) yet not be the current tank that it is. Alternatively, remove the ability to heal from Life Transfer and all healing spells. This moves the SotG character into a strong fighter in a short melee, but in drawn out conflicts becomes very fragile. - NO the problem is not that SOTG is OP... its the fact that it takes so long and is a huge increase in combat capabilities... - instead needs a gradual DR% increase over time (10% at level 4, 25% at level 7?) - Meditation is limited on the number of ticks per day (like faith) but random(sometimes no ticks) like normal skills that are not limited.... PICK ONE OR THE OTHER! Feel free to provide feedback on which scenario you'd prefer to see, either of these changes will also come with the ability to swap from Path of Insanity to another path with no cooldown. - Changing paths should be like changing kingdoms... your path level remains the same but you cannot change again for specific time... 14 days? Many many more, feel free to ask about them! IS THIS A JOKE.... WHATS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD IF YOU WONT TELL US ALL OF THE SUGGESTED CHANGES? When providing feedback, for the sake of clarity and easier cataloging, please provide which server you play on, if you play on both feel free to say so, but also indicate your main server. Chaos... unless these very poor suggestions go into effect... A lot of mechanics may be delayed until we have a longer time frame to address balancing across a whole range of issues, such as priests, all meditation paths, weapons, armour, stats and combat in general. The initial aim is to improve PvP in the short term, and then address more balancing issues with a way of testing them out thoroughly, challenge round 3 is quite possible.... Edit: MAJOR ISSUES NOT MENTIONED.... F2P alt abuse... simple fix: - f2p cannot join villages or kingdoms - prem toons that go un-prem instant spawn at starter deed of template kingdom and join that kingdom... Edited March 26, 2016 by Retrograde large fonts dont make points more impressive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 Seems to be a large focus on changing this from a game to a job (hah, as if it isn't already). Remove Information minister. - The so-and-so has entered your territory, yes. The officers online, no. Remove all teleportation forms on PvP servers (including home servers). - Add a 24hour restriction after joining a deed, problem solved. Most peoples issue is with joining deeds to teleport. Also, would suck to have spend an age fighting the RNG gods to get 80 meditating and have it taken away from you. Remove archery penalties or scale according to individual armour pieces. - Remove it, it was nonsense when it went in, it'll be nonsense until it's removed. You already have to stand still and shoot, and now have to be naked or carry extra weight for a swapout set of armour. Disable embarking on vehicles or mounts while in combat with an enemy players. - Wut? Kill the horses if they're causing grief. As for boats, boat pvp is bad enough with the associated bugs without dying because you get kicked off by one and couldn't reimbark. Addition of Archery keybinds. - +1 to all the keybinds for all the things ever to even in wurm. Remove stun/throw from valrei mobs. - No, but give them a CD on using those abilities. As it is, they can literally just spam them over and over and over and etc. Make nolocate on bodies work similar to jewellery with power determining % blocked. Cooldowns on searching for same person. - Don't know why it's not just a case of cast power comparison for sucessful locates. On this note, the Eye should be a 100% chance of locating online players. Remove disintegration requiring token drain and remove magranon bonus. - Shouldn't be a bonus to any god on something this important IMO, but I still think the drain should be required and perhaps add a bashing bonus for the hour too - a sort of "You've won, the guards are demoralised". Creation of a “verbose” combat tab option, including extra information such as Area of Effect spells, Direct target spells, karma and meditation buffs, etc - Well, duh. Since the game has close to sod all in terms of visuals, everything should be verbose. Raise deed costs on PvP servers to limit expansion by simply placing multiple deeds to conquer towers - Not quite sure what you mean here? Which nubbins is planting a deed to conquer a tower? Scale scenario point rewards according to mission type (sacrifice, drain, traitor, tree) then modified by whether server is friendly, enemy, or elevation - No opinion. Make uniques focus points of missions, or giving kingdom based rewards for slaying - No opinion Change battle rank to only be given through kills, not through missions or capping towers/camps - As already mentioned, only if natural decay is removed. Make destruction of longhouses easier, focus on less tedium when raiding and promote faster raids. - No, just fix the bugs that flat out stop you from removing them. Make chaos and possibly home server merchants tauntable - I'll say yes, but in the long run it just means people will use alts instead. Remove speed bonus from logged off alts on boats on PvP servers - Sure. Have tower guards target whoever is trying to capture the tower. Require killing of guards before tower is captured. - Given that waves of around 10 can spawn every few seconds if you're really unlucky, and even easy caps can spawn a few large waves, this would just break things as you cannot taunt that many at once. I like the suggestion that was made that required all spawned guards to be killed to complete the cap however. Seen a lot of abuse with using fences/barricades/magic walls to cap with 2 guys then just run away from all the guards. As for the SotG changes, I think this needs to be considered very carefully. In my opinion, it is too easy to kill non-SotG accounts, not too hard to kill SotG. The fact that you can one-shot people through plate is a problem. I'd much rather see the % on SotG lowered, but base health of all players pulled up. It's hard enough to get into this game, let alone into pvp, especially when all your experiences will be turning up and dying first. Already, most fights are "Target xx as they don't have SotG", wittling away the easier kills and then moving on to the rest. And that's not because the SotG accounts are so strong, it's because the rest are so weak in most cases. Coupled with the fact that 95+fs and you can still make a bad move to a bloody wild cat, let alone another player, the risks of getting insta-gibbed, even when you're not the focus, are surprisingly high. So those with lower combat skills and lower CR will again have it worse. Games where you can die so easily should be down entirely to player skill - think FPS games, not games where you need to speed-read. Most importantly, we need to see many many bug fixes. PvP can often boil down to which side gets a player stuck in a wall first... Also, could you list the changes that you haven't listed that we have to ask you about, please? Seems rather redundant... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
