Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) when people already die way too fast without stacking dr I don't think increasing the damage people can do is a good idea (this wasn't a problem years ago because the meta was using wetnoodle longswords before the buffed up aggressive stance) base health is just too low, increase the base but keep the max where it is no matter what you do to gone it doesn't change the fact that gold/red/blue plate gives a huge bonus over gray plate, so that gap will always be there unless moon armor is changed, which really imo is where one problem lies. yes, using the classic argument that everyone can meditate, not everyone can get a full set of moon armor. tbh at the very least, all moon types of armor should just be the same 75% dr as scale. I've used moon/dragon armor for years, because when you have it, there's really no alternative other than using armor that is just a lot worse so you're just at a disadvantage. with meditation you actually have options, regardless of if they need balancing too there's of course the subject of healing being op but thats not dr Edited March 23, 2016 by MrGARY 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Wargasm said: I don't have SoTG and I think SoTG needs to be left alone. Why? Because like all the other PvP skills (shield skill, archery, body stats) it takes a long time to build up meditation skill. If your argument is because insanity is the only good meditation path for PvP, then i'll make a counter argument that Vyn priests need some PvP love. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Vyn champion charge into battle? The time you put into something doesn't make it balanced, it's not really how it works especially since its permanent. It's like playing a cookiecutter MMO and every new player has to grind at a normal XP rate, but once you hit 1 year of playtime you get an account bound gearset that gives you +50% XP gain. Pre-playergods + locate soul added to everyone for the vyn champ thing. Also, everyone needs to stop saying you have options when it comes to meditation, you don't. If you want to PvP, you get SOTG, or you die in every fight against intelligent players unless you sit 20 tiles back from everyone else. (or unless you have 20x their numbers.) And by die in every fight, i mean die in less than fifteen seconds regardless of your account strength unless you get absurdly lucky with your rolls. Edited March 23, 2016 by Propheteer 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 maybe we just have to take off compleate meditation for the pvp servers so it dont harm the pve player... thats of course just another idea but than you will still have the big diffrence between new player and full moon metal vets Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 Interesting to see how in a game, where every encounter is so different, where there are so many factors which can alter the outcome of the battle.. people think, that the game will be balanced after changing one buff. There are situations, where SOTG can actually act as a balancing factor. If someone is outnumbered or at disadvantage in any other way, then shield of the gone will make things more fair to them. So the role of SOTG is very situational. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 On 2016-03-21 at 9:51 PM, MaurizioAM said: In my opinion SOTG should be removed. Or at least made a timed ability. Can only be used 1 time per day or something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Biervampyr said: maybe we just have to take off compleate meditation for the pvp servers so it dont harm the pve player... thats of course just another idea but than you will still have the big diffrence between new player and full moon metal vets the gear isn't anywhere near as much of an issue as meditation. i remember before all of this a certain group of 11 or 12 noobs with one good account among the entirety of them who bagged more drake and scale than the 30 member kingdoms. it just goes to show you how inexperienced the current wurm playerbase is when it comes to PvP. It still humors me that people think SOTG is a novel idea and try to justify it by time spent or saying well other thing is also OP and we shouldnt fix any of them until we fix x! REEEEEEEEEEEE 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Propheteer said: the gear isn't anywhere near as much of an issue as meditation. i remember before all of this a certain group of 11 or 12 noobs with one good account among the entirety of them who bagged more drake and scale than the 30 member kingdoms. it just goes to show you how inexperienced the current wurm playerbase is when it comes to PvP. It still humors me that people think SOTG is a novel idea and try to justify it by time spent or saying well other thing is also OP and we shouldnt fix any of them until we fix x! REEEEEEEEEEEE of course im inexoerienced about pvp becouse im a pve player but you need to understand that this change would also affect the pve crowed. i really try to understand the problems of the pvp people but you would need do to the same. but what you said about the armour...just an example. i would start to pvp now and im a newb how long will it take to trust me enough and my pvp skills to give me a compleate moon/drake armour? and what happens when i lost 2 compleate sets allready? its easier for people to get into fighting when they can use sotg than to rely on something special like moon metal stuff becouse it doesnt matter what happens after 1 year maybe even more they will get it whatever happens and they will never loose it. i would be really intressted to see how many people on pve servers use sotg. if they are really just 2-3 guys than the change would be maybe much easier to handle from the pvp group but like i said right now it will affect pve players too in a huge way. Edited March 23, 2016 by Biervampyr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 yes please remove shield of the gone so I can 1 shot people with my rare glimmer huge axe! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 Bump for needing a shield equip to activate SOTG passive ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 1 hour ago, TradingAlt said: yes please remove shield of the gone so I can 1 shot people with my rare glimmer huge axe! if it wasn't a thing, you pull it out without preparation youll die before you hit anyone. :^) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 I remember watching the Hiroi account go down in about 3 hits with 2h weapons. That account was grinded to 95 LMS, 85 Longsword with 56 body. Lots of time was put into it, and it didn't matter because a sotg player sat ontop of him and beat him up with a hugeaxe. I do enjoy that people can't drop like flies, maybe make health pools a little higher based on body strength? People spend lots of time in preparation for PvP, sucks to get hurt so much by 2h weapons. Nerfing SotG could go nice with a little increase to health pools? Just my thoughts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) How about you take all these suggestions to nerf wurm online and try them on a wurm unlimited server? If your server becomes really popular then you have proved your point, but if it's not at least the rest of us don't have to endure your idea testing as we currently enjoy the game the way it is. Edited March 23, 2016 by madnezz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, madnezz said: How about you take all these bad suggestions to nerf wurm online and try them on a wurm unlimited server? If your server becomes really popular then you have proved your point, but if it's not at least the rest of us don't have to endure your idea testing as we currently enjoy the game the way it is. Because many people want to see change in wurm online not unlimited. Most people dont even bother to post because they feel whats the point. The original suggestion with the nay saying by a few gave no real points of negative affects. Infact comments still suggest not much will change because of it, people will remain path of insanity people will remain using huge axes. And the argument also is that POI is not a pve path so basically we dont even have to consider pvers anymore being that it was implented to being the ONLY pvp path "apparently". Suggestion are made to try and help not nerf SOTG as a whole because that will most likely end up being the outcome since people dont know how to compromise. The only thing having to wear a shield to have SOTG ability work does is makes people have to be that much more on their A game bringing in a bit of player skill. And because of that slightly different tactixs would be used in the battlefield. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 The compromise is making SOTG gradual as you progress down the Insanity Path and maybe tweaking the other paths to make them more interesting in pvp. There are already mechanics in the game that penalize you if you equip a 2 hander, we dont need more. Nerfing should never be the first choice and this OP idea is a nerf no matter how you describe it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 How does this matter if you can instantly switch to a weapon and shield anyways Madnezz? It just requires more proactive gameplay unless you don't have the combat tab open when you PvP or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Propheteer said: if it wasn't a thing, you pull it out without preparation youll die before you hit anyone. :^) I don't think you know how much fightskill I got bro, I will obliterate nerds. This axe can crush glimmer helms in half. if you don't believe me, here is a representation of what would happen when I pull this axe out. Edited March 23, 2016 by TradingAlt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 45 minutes ago, madnezz said: The compromise is making SOTG gradual as you progress down the Insanity Path and maybe tweaking the other paths to make them more interesting in pvp. There are already mechanics in the game that penalize you if you equip a 2 hander, we dont need more. Nerfing should never be the first choice and this OP idea is a nerf no matter how you describe it. Gradual progression only handles one aspect of sotg which is the complaint of time required it does not account for all the other complaints about DR and the ability to combine the highest DR with the highest DPS. Therefore nerfing as you like to call it while i call it balance would be to limit the ability to have the best of both worlds. The biggest issue is the fact there is absolutely nothing that can even remotely compare to the overpowered combo of SOTG. And furthermore if they beefed up other meditation paths to have slight comparisons to SOTG that would solve notbing as then you would have evwn more OPness and new comers would be even more worthless in comabt then they are now. The domino affect is real and which is why balance is needed so if that comes in with a slight nerf to Sotg ability to combine with the greatest dmg weapon that is a good start and perhaps can even be the solution to path of instanity. A combination of progressive DR per level and just the needing a shield equip cam possibly be the only things needed for SOTG. You wont know fully though till its tested. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 23, 2016 4 hours ago, madnezz said: How about you take all these suggestions to nerf wurm online and try them on a wurm unlimited server? If your server becomes really popular then you have proved your point, but if it's not at least the rest of us don't have to endure your idea testing as we currently enjoy the game the way it is. Desolationv3 would be a good testing ground for this type of thing. Everyone has glimmer plate, sotg, and high body (even by their first day of playing) because the rates are so high and it has glimmer veins Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 On 3/23/2016 at 10:07 PM, Nadroj said: Basically Wargasm has said what i said and i agree, meditation is not a pvp skill it is a varied skill with varied paths and it so happens that one of them is best for pvp. The other paths are better for other things and there's nothing wrong with that. By choosing to take the time to get sotg i made the choice to make myself stronger in pvp at the cost of getting 25% increased skillgain or crazy stamina not to mention the other abilities each path has. I and many others made that choice because we recognise one path as best for pvp. Why are we saying thats a bad thing? Why is the chief of a pvp kingdom having to remind you all that the game isn't all about what works for pvp? Except that having any single best is exactly the issue. A single best "dominant" strategy is inherently unbalanced. Your time wasn't spent getting SotG. It was spent getting 70 meditating and advancing up the ranks. That time is exactly the same regardless of your path choice. Your time was spent on getting the skill, not the path. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 On 3/23/2016 at 11:40 AM, madnezz said: How about you take all these suggestions to nerf wurm online and try them on a wurm unlimited server? If your server becomes really popular then you have proved your point, but if it's not at least the rest of us don't have to endure your idea testing as we currently enjoy the game the way it is. Nice [url=http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/popular.html]argumentum ad populum. This isn't about what's popular. It's about what's balanced. Many players of almost every multiplayer game dread balanced changes that force them to adapt to a new play style. It doesn't make any difference if it increases the balance of the game. Sorry for the double post - I don't know how (if possible) to append a quote onto a post during an edit, and I really don't want to try with the terrible quote mechanics on this new forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 45 minutes ago, MisterTeddy said: Except that having any single best is exactly the issue. A single best "dominant" strategy is inherently unbalanced. Your time wasn't spent getting SotG. It was spent getting 70 meditating and advancing up the ranks. That time is exactly the same regardless of your path choice. Your time was spent on getting the skill, not the path. Um, actually it does take time to get Shield of the Gone, not meditation. According to the wiki, it takes 166 days (minimum) of waiting for the path questions to advance in levels. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why having a singular choice for PvP is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. I want to understand why you want to nerf something, rather than presenting other options for meditation PvP abilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 On 3/23/2016 at 10:54 AM, MaurizioAM said: Most people dont even bother to post because they feel whats the point. Yes, just as a response to this statement. I rarely post in these threads because it just seems like a lot of children crying about how something is not fair because they are not getting their way. At least now when the whiners' kingdom folds they can still snuggle up to their participation trophies (a.k.a. their heirloom banners, flags, and wagons). What's next? Before it was artifacts, now it is SotG, so what will be your next reason that you cannot succeed? I think so far I have seen people crying about Karma, Hell horses, rare gear, and moon metals. When will you finally be happy? When we are all running around on foot in green tights? If you all would spend half of the time you spend on these forums trying to find ways to screw over the game, other people, and sometimes people within your own kingdom you might actually start enjoying yourself. If not, maybe Madnezz was right and this isn't the game for you. I will continue doing what I do by spending what time I have in Wurm Online, as it is, to increase my skills and learn everything that I can to progress. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 Requiring a shield to be equipped wouldn't be a good solution. You either block or you don't; there shouldn't be any leniency for damage reduction just because you're wearing a shield. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Thing is, the PvP suggestions I've seen lately aren't so much KvK. In other words, the majority of the suggestions lately would affect all kingdoms. A few examples: Nerf SoTG- All kingdoms have SoTG players, I'm pretty sure this affects everyone, not just the favorite kingdom. Nerf Karma Porting (24 hour village cooldown)- Affects ALL kingdoms' abilities to easily defend their deeds. Allowing all kingdoms to champ all priests- Again, JK would gain access to Mag champs, MR would gain access to Fo champs. An example of a KvK suggestion would be to limit the number of deeds a PMK can have, or to limit the amount of members a PMK can have. As a member of JK, I could make a suggestion that says "disallow recruitment for a kingdom that owns 3/4 of the map", but quite honestly, people WANT to join the biggest kingdom because they want an easy ride. Whatever floats their boat I guess. The reason I don't make such a suggestion is because whether or not people join JK, they are coming to PvP. If tomorrow, there's 50 MR raiders and only 10 JK defenders, I know that there's more people participating in Wurm PvP, and that's FINE with me, even if I'm on the losing side. If you really want to make PvP better, stop the KvK ###### and think outside your 300 dirt wall box. Edited March 25, 2016 by Wargasm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
