End GM Censorship of the Forums

[Pingpong 1,070]

Do we have to have civility and respect on the forums? There is a whole forum devoted to the lack of it is there not? Perhaps there should be ammendment to the forum rules ** The silliness tolerated in the wild/epic/logs threads will not be tolerated in the rest of the forums** OR it is. Its as simple as that.

[Pinchaloaf 341]

Without the freedom to speak your mind, why even bother having the forum at all?

 

I just recently got off a three day ban for basically telling someone to go piss up a rope, but in more colorful words. I took my licks and the ban was appropriate. However, what led to me going apeshit on that person was the unnecessary deletion of many posts in quite a few threads. And not just my posts, but many others.

 

This is nothing new for Wurm. Forum moderation has always been terrible in this game with respect to negative feedback put forth by players expressing their displeasure with game rulings or changes to mechanics. With the new addition of FUD, you can bet that the moderation will only get worse. All encompassing rules like FUD and Challenging Moderation leads to people having posts and threads deleted with no transparency. This is exactly what is happening lately, and this is what has a load of people really pissed off right now. I think the idea of locking and deleting threads in an attempt to squash this uprising, or any other negative display, is simply naive.

[KaiH 1,126]

This forum is hosted on behalf of CCAB and we all are just guests here.

 

If you crap on my couch in my house, why would you wonder that i don't invite you in the next time?

[Slickshot 1,195]

Civility and respect is common decency.  If you cannot have common decency without giving into your aggression and desire to abuse others, then you need to leave or be forced to leave.  To be frank, no one wants to deal with that crap.

 

Edit:  I will say that I'm all-for an amendment as mentioned by Ping, where the rules specifically state that pvp competitiveness is completely understood, and moderation is a little more relaxed in that area, but pve friendly areas should be kept inline with the standard rule-set of the forums.  Actually, and I can't remember if this was in a thread or in a personal message, a staff member recently said that the PvP section of the forums is treated more loosely with the rules as that is part of the overall experience or competitive environment of PvP as a whole.  Totally understandable difference, and I could easily accept such an amendment if one were deemed necessary.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[Pinchaloaf 341]

Slick, you simply troll as hard as anyone else here. You goad people into confronting you at just about every post that does not agree with your position. Yet I doubt you've been handed down one single warning point for trolling. Hell, you even admitted to trolling in a PM to someone else. Can I ask, do you believe that you should have at least been given a warning or two by this point? Or do you believe your hands are clean in this discussion?

[zethreal 582]

12 minutes ago, Pinchaloaf said:

Without the freedom to speak your mind, why even bother having the forum at all?

 

I just recently got off a three day ban for basically telling someone to go piss up a rope, but in more colorful words. I took my licks and the ban was appropriate. However, what led to me going apeshit on that person was the unnecessary deletion of many posts in quite a few threads. And not just my posts, but many others.

 

If you had possibly told him your displeasure using more polite terms, you may not have been banned.

 

Edit: Nobody has told you that you can't speak your mind. They have only asked that you do so in a CIVIL manner. ( end edit )

 

This whole thread sounds like people being upset that they can't sound like a bunch of immature maniacs screaming obscenities at each other. If people would start acting like adults and learn how to be even slightly polite, chances are you won't find your posts being moderated. Civility, even when talking to/about people/decisions you hate, can lead to other people having a chance to understand where you are coming from.

Edited March 11, 2016 by zethreal

[Pinchaloaf 341]

I was going off the assumption that if I told them my displeasure using more polite terms, it would have been deleted much like the other posts. Hence the reason for going off the hook. Did you just quote what I said without reading it, or did you just think that saying the same stuff over and over will somehow make everything alright?

 

The point being made here for those of you that keep saying we have no freedom to speak our minds in this forum, is that even when done in a civil manner, stuff is still getting censored. So yes, in essence, we are being told you can not speak your mind. And furthermore, with the addition of FUD, now anything that anyone says can be construed to be spreading fear.

[MarkSilard 194]

Spreading fear in Wurm forum?

lol

[Slickshot 1,195]

6 hours ago, Pinchaloaf said:

Slick, you simply troll as hard as anyone else here. You goad people into confronting you at just about every post that does not agree with your position. Yet I doubt you've been handed down one single warning point for trolling. Hell, you even admitted to trolling in a PM to someone else. Can I ask, do you believe that you should have at least been given a warning or two by this point? Or do you believe your hands are clean in this discussion?

I'll do you the respect of answering your questions frankly. 

Spoiler

 

There seems to be this myth that I am above moderation.  That is simply not true.  The only reason the moderators haven't spoken up to clear this myth is because it goes against their typical policy of openly discussing any punishments or directives handed out in private.  This includes warnings.  I have, for the sake of clarity, been given 2 warning points in my tenure at these forums.  Both of those points came over a year ago.  I've had something more than a dozen of my posts removed from the forums in the past, due to the aggressive attitude I clearly displayed in those times.  I've recently had a post removed.  I do not post about this in the forums, or make threads to complain about the moderators decisions.  I message a forum moderator and I ask why a specific post was removed.  They always respond quickly with precise information.  My most recent removed post was removed because it was linked to a defamation of character post.  I had replied to someone who was bashing either myself or someone else.  In that reply I quoted that bashing post, and gave an explanation of why that wasn't cool.  The moderator removed my post because it contained the misconduct post in a quote and was completely out of place in the discussion after the misconduct post was removed.  I hope that clears the myth a bit.

 

Also, I'll remind you that I don't owe you any explanations, but I'm feeling generous today, so I'll add to that pm you mentioned.  Instead of continuing a downhill argument that was derailing a thread, I chose to pm a player that I had a disagreement with.  In that pm I said that a person is responsible for their own actions, regardless of what is said to them by anyone else, because no one can force you to do something you do not want.  I referenced a quote that said, "When I ask most people what would happen if I spit on them, they respond with, 'I'd be angry, or pissed off!'  However, the truest answer is that they'd be "wet."  I explained that the quote shows how while others can have an impact on how you feel, it doesn't mean they choose for you how you react to those feelings.  I went on to say that "IF" and I did bold and underline that word in my message, that "IF I posted with the intent to bait you into an argument, it is still your choice to have that argument.  IF my truest intent is to help explain something to you, and you somehow feel baited and respond aggressively, then it is still your choice to react that way; no one makes you do it.  The point was to prove that one way or another, with good intend or bad, I cannot choose how you respond to me, I can only choose how I speak to you.  Every decision you make is your responsibility, and not mine.  I'm also fairly certain in that message that I specifically stated that my truest intent is to be understanding and helpful, and not to bait anyone.  That specific person replied to me and immediately said, "So you're admitting to baiting people?"  I don't see how my message said that at all, but that's what he chose to take from it.  Nothing I can do about that, and my conscience is clear.

 

Me disagreeing with your posts--or the posts of others--does not make me a troll.  Choosing to use tact and respect in a post when I explain something does not make me a troll, and it does not make me favored by the staff.  It only means that I choose to use refinement and consideration when I post.  If you haven't noticed this, please go back and read any of my recent posts.  You'll see that I do my very best to say, "in my opinion" or "respectfully" or I even thank people for the time they put into their posts even when I disagree with them.  This is common decency and civility.  I am clearly not as educated or refined as some, but I am also clearly not as aggressive or toxic as other either.  Life is about the choices we make.  I choose to try to learn, grow, and be understanding of others, even when I disagree with them.  That is my education.  I don't know how you'll respond to this post, as that is clearly your choice, but hopefully you see some respect in it and accept it for being the honest truth, as that is how I intended to deliver it.

 

 

For anyone who doesn't care to read the explanation above, please skim past it.  I intend this as an olive branch to those who seem to aggressively oppose me.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Slickshot

[Slickshot 1,195]

38 minutes ago, Pinchaloaf said:

I was going off the assumption that if I told them my displeasure using more polite terms, it would have been deleted much like the other posts. Hence the reason for going off the hook. Did you just quote what I said without reading it, or did you just think that saying the same stuff over and over will somehow make everything alright?

 

The point being made here for those of you that keep saying we have no freedom to speak our minds in this forum, is that even when done in a civil manner, stuff is still getting censored. So yes, in essence, we are being told you can not speak your mind. And furthermore, with the addition of FUD, now anything that anyone says can be construed to be spreading fear.

Where did this claim start?  Who is the original source of this claim?  If you truly believe that is taking place, and you want something done about it, honestly the best course of action would be to take screen shots of your civil posts to save as evidence in case they are removed later.  Otherwise it's mostly hearsay and hard to support.  I will say, that many times entire pages of a thread are wiped, good posts as well, because the majority of the content of that thread is an entire derailment with many posts being overly abusive.  I've seen it before, and it makes sense and maybe the culprit to your frustrations. 

 

For example:  lets say the thread topic is adding pizza to the game.  The first page or two is light-hearted fun and expressions of joy for such a suggestion, because everyone loves pizza...right?  The next page turns a bit as someone expresses their disgust for pizza, and says it's a dumb idea.  People argue and bicker over how you could hate pizza, etc, etc.  By the third page you're on a discussion about how Rolf is a moron for not adding WU mods to the main game.  Some people are abusively calling out Rolf, defaming his character, and when a moderator asks to return the thread to the topic, some people are upset and argue with the moderator.  Meanwhile there are a few people in the thread still voicing their undying love for pizza, and WU mods that add pizza to the game.  The arguing and abusive comments are overriding the joy and civil discussion about pizza mods.  Not to mention most of the page is derailed off-topic.  Instead of sorting through and hand deleting 18 derogatory comments and sparing 5 peaceful comments, the moderator decides to wipe the whole page and return the thread to the topic at hand.  This kind of thing has happened before, more than once, but in my opinion it's completely understandable and is intended to steer the topic back to the tracks.  This often times works out, and some times it doesn't, and the derailment begins again.  In this situation the topic is locked.

 

Perhaps this example helps to clear up some of the confusion?  It's no secret that I frequent the forums daily, and participate in several discussions that pique my interest.  In all of that traffic and activity; however, I rarely see any comments being deleted other than abusive, harassing, and down right hateful remarks.  That's just from my experience.  Take it for what you will.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[zigozag 918]

LOL really you removed my absolutely following the rules and the subject of this thread post? Here? In the same thread where staff claims there's no censorship? So silly... Ah, well. I keep seeing exaggerations and ridiculous comparisons in attempt to try and make up an analogy when there's no need for one, so i take it as there's no point to explain opinions now as they're just getting removed.

 

Let me at least say this: "I agree to OP and +1 his point".

 

edit: Thanks to Firestarter and undisclosed moderation team members, that post was restored. There is some hope after all

Edited March 11, 2016 by zigozag

[Slickshot 1,195]

5 minutes ago, zigozag said:

LOL really you removed my absolutely following the rules and the subject of this thread post? Here? In the same thread where staff claims there's no censorship? So silly... Ah, well. I keep seeing exaggerations and ridiculous comparisons in attempt to try and make up an analogy when there's no need for one, so i take it as there's no point to explain opinions now as they're just getting removed.

 

Let me at least say this: "I agree to OP and +1 his point".

Would be a good time to pm a forum moderator and ask them about it.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[ExpiredSalsa 46]

3 hours ago, Firestarter said:

solmark isn't the one to ask about that anymore as he is no longer the Lead Forum Moderator. 

winner winner chicken dinner
pandalet for LFM 2016

[ExpiredSalsa 46]

2 hours ago, Pinchaloaf said:

Without the freedom to speak your mind, why even bother having the forum at all?

 

I just recently got off a three day ban for basically telling someone to go piss up a rope, but in more colorful words. I took my licks and the ban was appropriate. However, what led to me going apeshit on that person was the unnecessary deletion of many posts in quite a few threads. And not just my posts, but many others.

oh and this. I took a forum ban for challenging moderation

all in all it wouldn't have happened if I had a non-automatic and actual thought process behind why my posts were being removed.

For what Retrograde asked last page, I think a short written response for why posts were removed, along with a notification would be appropriate. In my case videos were removed days after posting, recruitment posts were removed.

All of this I get told from other people I am friends with, instead of the person going out of their way to find things that I've posted that are "suitable" for removal.

It seems the entire way moderation has been dealt with on the forums recently has been changed from how it has been previously handled.

( I also don't like when my posts are removed, someone mirrors what I do so I report them out of spite because my thing was removed, and refer to a previous moderation decision that could be referenced, and the post is not removed. That's sort of sad, and makes straight up contacting FM's a better way of sending reports which shouldn't be so.)

Edited March 11, 2016 by KaiH
Moderation edit

[Slickshot 1,195]

In reference to what you're saying Salsa, I agree that receiving a pm from a forum moderator when your post is removed would be helpful.  I've wondered for quite a while now why none of the forum moderators personally adopt that policy to help add transparency to their efforts and preemptively remove any doubt that could be had about them.  So I agree with you on that front, that something as such would be a simple and welcomed revision of policy.  However, I still do hold the opinion that any sort of blame of the moderation team when you react negatively and are punished for it is simply asinine.  Whether your automatic response to having a post removed is anger or confusion, it doesn't really matter, what does matter is how you effectuate those feelings into a useful and constructive approach. 

 

For example, every single time one of my posts have ever been removed, I pop open a message window and shoot a pm to a forum moderator and inquire about the circumstances surrounding the removal.  It saves me a lot of frustration, and ultimately a lot of embarrassment, choosing to go the route of inquisitor instead of raging on the forums or challenging the decision openly.  I'm not sure if that relates to what you're saying or not, but I wanted to toss that in there as a clarification of how well moderation and player interaction can and does work when respected properly and sent through the appropriate channels.  Also when I say "you" I mean everyone, myself included, in general.

[zigozag 918]

44 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

into a useful and constructive approach

 

I have to remind  you that we're not on a UN meeting or any annual scientific conference, this is just a game forum, there're people of any nation, any age, education, social, etc. category and enforcing them all to talk in a specific way you like won't do any good. Trying to forbid emotional yet not (in)directly insulting responses and posts written in a manner you consider bad is that kind of censorship that would only suit situations i mentioned above.

[Slickshot 1,195]

14 minutes ago, zigozag said:

 

I have to remind  you that we're not on a UN meeting or any annual scientific conference, this is just a game forum, there're people of any nation, any age, education, social, etc. category and enforcing them all to talk in a specific way you like won't do any good. Trying to forbid emotional yet not (in)directly insulting responses and posts written in a manner you consider bad is that kind of censorship that would only suit situations i mentioned above.

Just because it isn't a formal meeting does not mean a person cannot use tact in their comments.  Trying to force the acceptance of all emotional responses--without taking responsibility for your actions--and then blaming the moderation for censorship is immature.  As I have said, and many others before me--and I'll say it just once more--no one said you could not dislike something or voice your opinion, only that you cannot expect to get away with being abusive or trying to cause doubt on purpose.  Those are the rules, and they are final as far as I can tell.  No sense in arguing against them.

 

Edit:  Be mindful that there is a difference between, "Hey [insert moderator name], why the hell did you remove my post!?" - in a personal message, and "Hey the stupid moderators removed my post.  This is censorship.  This is ######.  Who agrees with me!?" - in a public forum.  Being emotional is one thing; how and where you choose to display those emotions effectively is another.  If you say, "I'm so tired of these ridiculous updates, I'm going back to WU." - you're still portraying your frustrations without insulting anyone or abusing someone who certainly doesn't deserve your abuse.  Does that seem fair?

Edited March 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[zigozag 918]

nvm

Edited March 11, 2016 by zigozag
not gonna feed trolls

[Slickshot 1,195]

18 minutes ago, zigozag said:

Well, i know there're children on this forum as well. Immature? They and their manners have to be accepted and that's about it.

No they do not have to be accepted.  If they're playing this game then hopefully they're old enough to understand the difference between right and wrong.  If they are foul and rude they can be removed like anyone else.  This is a privately owned and operated game which is not bound by law to respect the abusive intentions or habits of others.  Just the way it goes, and I'm thankful for that.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[zethreal 582]

17 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

No they do not have to be accepted.  If they're playing this game then hopefully they're old enough to understand the difference between right and wrong.  If they are foul and rude they can be removed like anyone else.  This is a privately owned and operated game which is not bound by law to respect the abusive intentions or habits of others.  Just the way it goes, and I'm thankful for that.

 

Exactly. I knew proper manners when I was 10 or 12. I knew what was & was not "acceptable". Did I always do what was acceptable or appropriate? No. But I did learn that there were repercussions for it. If you are old enough to play, you are old enough to act at least somewhat mature. If you don't, you deserve to be punished. This isn't to be mean. It is to teach you to present yourself better.

 

The only rule you really need to know about the forums ( and truthfully one of the few you need to know about life ):

 

Don't be a ######.   Or, in the words of my childhood heroes Bill S Preston & Ted 'Theodore' Logan: "Be Excellent to each other and party on, Dudes!"

[Pinchaloaf 341]

Guys, no one is arguing that we have to put up with posts that are obviously someone being a douche. We get that. You two have said that more times than can be counted. People are pissed at having legit posts, ideas, and whole threads deleted without cause, and without notification. Transparency does not exist here, and it should.

 

Another thing that pisses people off is when you do contact someone in a PM, it is usually treated like a non-issue at best, and totally ignored at worst. This isn't anecdotal from just one person here. The reason there is a mini-riot going on lately in the forums is because this has been the norm for some time now.

[Slickshot 1,195]

8 minutes ago, Pinchaloaf said:

Guys, no one is arguing that we have to put up with posts that are obviously someone being a douche. We get that. You two have said that more times than can be counted. People are pissed at having legit posts, ideas, and whole threads deleted without cause, and without notification. Transparency does not exist here, and it should.

 

Another thing that pisses people off is when you do contact someone in a PM, it is usually treated like a non-issue at best, and totally ignored at worst. This isn't anecdotal from just one person here. The reason there is a mini-riot going on lately in the forums is because this has been the norm for some time now.

It's just hard to take your word for it without proof.  I understand that that is hard to deliver upon when a post is already deleted, but it's still hard to blindly trust the declaration that the posts weren't abusive.  I've seen so many negative-opinion/feedback posts that are left unaltered because they aren't abusive, so it's hard to see the evidence, as it were, to prove the opposite.  Screenshots would certainly help if possible.

 

Also, as for contacting moderators through pm and inquiring, this is not something I've had trouble with.  I don't always get the answer that pleases me, but I do get an appropriate response.  I'm not saying this is always the case for everyone, I'm only saying that I personally feel most of us don't have those kinds of issues (could be wrong), so it's hard to relate to what you're saying and take it as the gospel truth.  Needs further investigationings.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Slickshot

[Klaa 4,872]

Not only do private companies in the US have more room on this issue, its also a Swedish company.

 

Granted private companies in the US can face issues with public opinion, assuming enough of their customers give a crap.

[Yamuliss 105]

There is nothing wrong with a limited moderation when it comes to infringements to the games general rules. But people you should be able to agree on disagreeing with one another and without the threat of some over zealous GM or CM removing your post because he or she didn't like how it read, This should make sense to most of you out there. If a post violates the core rules then of course i would expect those in charge of forum moderation to remove the post or thread but if it's ranting or complaining or whining or what ever else thats a none violation to the rules then leave it be. Or if the owner of the thread complains about a post on his or her thread then maybe investigate a little but again if it doesn't violate the rules leave it there. It's common sense. I'm reading things about politics and governments and blah blah blah and way off the subject of the thread. I never said one thing about American Rights or any other government rights. I can't help you people who think you should have a moderator standing over your shoulder to watch what you say so that your not offensive to others. I can't help people who are trapped in that mentality.

 

Let me spell it all out for some of you confused folks or the ones lacking common sense. This is a game. When i get on this game i enter a new world from the crazy depressing and sick world we live in, in real life. Last thing i want to do is compare political notes with Europeans and others from other places in the world for obvious reasons we would not see eye to eye. The Structure is different and i get that. But crying out loud people this is GAME! Do you understand that it's a game. Do you CM and GMs understand it's a game? In a game not every individual is going to get along. Rules are in place to govern the game. If the rules are broken then thats when GMs and CMs should get involved. It's real simple. Look i never liked and i still don't like the Name and Shame policy but people it's your right to do so. You wanna take a newb who not use to the game or doesn't know what he or she really doing other then causing chaos and label him or her a Thief, Back Stabber, Horse thief or Griever and not to be a trusted kind person in the game. Go for it and so be it. If it makes a certain select few of you feel safer when doing so and if it makes you happy then go for it more power to you. But i don't agree with it and it's my right as a individual to disagree. 

 

See i am against it so thus you think id be in full support of Censor Ship to a degree but im not for censorship within a game. Im not for special interest groups in a game. You know who all you are that are in a special interest group, The ones who are clickish and control key segments of the market as a whole and tell others what they can buy and sell there stuff for or else get criticized on the forum many of them are the same ones wanting censorship and for obvious reasons. But you know what?  Even those people have a right to freedom of speech within the game as long as it doesn't violate the rules.

 

    Keenan i will tell you bud your wrong in your posts im not going to get into it but your wrong. As a Dev you should be neutral to anyones ideology, complaints, and concerns in the game. It should be discussed in your tight nit circle of GMs and CMs and rolf where ever he may be if anything on my thread you should have stopped the political nonsense talk but you didn't do that  because no way was my thread about my country and my governments rights it was about this game and a person ability to freely react and speak within its forums.I didn't know i had to define the two before i wrote my thread.

 

To Niki, no i have not returned and will not until the game has returned to the way it was when i first played several years ago and when people can grow up and act like adults and the special interest groups are pushed out. You should know this Niki after-all it was a few of them who complained about your prices a few months ago and tried to get you to play nice with them. 

 

Another example guys. I could make a new toon today and buy hundred dollars worth of junk and all you who dislike me and dislike what i stand for you special interest groups to the game and even some you that are CMs and GMs unless you did a IP check you have no idea it was me and you do business with me like anew player going along in your perfect little game world business as usual. You know it and i know it! The fact that im out spoken and speak the truth drives a few you insane because im not in the club with some of you. You know the special club.

 

I say this and its the truth, sometimes game owners forget the people that made there game a success in the first place. To you GMs and DEVs, None of you cared about the player base and the ingame economy when you made the decision to back Rolf on his release of WU. I have said WU is a fine product but i have also said its not a bug free product as was promised upon release i even complained about this. I have played WU as Server owner and as a player on many servers. I have seen challenge by many. I know what a GM goes through! But the player base is the one thing that overall should be held at the highest importance. You folks in the TEAM with Rolf gave no thought to how the Online community would feel with the game being broken up and split in two with the release of a new product. Oh YES its a privately owned game thus Rolf has the right to do what ever he desires. But each and everyone you that play his game are silent partners and investors. Without your money he couldn't achieve half the stuff thus far he has.

 

I recall his raising of the prices and i recall what he said as to why he was raising the premium prices. It was to better wurmonline he said. How about you level with us TEAM and Rolf and tell us where all that money went to exactly. Oh yes some new stuff been updated to wurm online but i suspect the majority of it went elsewhere. I have a feeling he was working on WU even before he decided to raise his prices. People thats his choice and his deception but it was a business plan he had in the making way before anyone knew. Before the release of Xanadu and he kept all of us in the dark about it. Now look at your wonderful online game. The market falling apart. Players are leaving in record numbers, Before you say well they are leaving to Wurm Unlimited so they are not really leaving thats just a line of bull. They left the game regardless however you want to twist the words and the online game took a huge hit as predicted and it was planned. 

 

You say Rolf in one your WU release statements your not going to pull the plug on servers but i disagree with you i feel as the numbers dwindle down you will be forced to. Now they want to do constructive censorship and force people to play nice with one another when months ago they turned a blind eye. People when will you wake up and really see whats going on here. The game is dieing! It's dead already! There no one to blame but those responsible and they know who they are. How hard would it really be for Rolf and his Team to fix the ingame economy hmm? How hard? It wouldn't be at all the fact is no time been put fourth in doing so. Why is that? Because they want it to suffer a slow death. I wouldn't pay 25 cents for a silver on wurm online right now. It over saturated with goods not even rares are selling for what they once was. Ships are worthless! Who gonna dispute this with me? Any of you gonna dare say the ingame economy is great? It's laughable if you do and you would be in denial. So those of you who support moderation and complete censorship have at it. I am not playing im on Rolf other new product like so many others where i have all the freedom i want and in fact i can be my own God and my own GM and make my own policies and design my own server and my own Mods and all for free with no monthly premiums and i can have all the silver i want for free in most cases.All i had to do was pay Rolf $29.00 and i got it all. I can even be like rolf and make my own server and charge people what ever i want to play it. So why would i return to the misery offered on wurmonline, what benefit is there?  Those of you left are fighting for the scraps left over on Rolf dinner plate. I said when rolf released WU it would be the end of Wurmonline and it for sure was a nail in the coffin now watch as more people leave in droves after they see continued freedom restricted. This is all being done by design.

 

Food for thought he can't just end servers guys you have any idea the blow back he get if he just started dropping servers. Better to kindly direct you all into an area where he makes more money and your still happy. Think on that. Rolf a better business man then you guys think he is, give him a little more credit for he knows exactly what he doing. He cutting his losses but he doing it constructively. But who knows i could be completely wrong and he could have something cooked up for just the online game and when its released it will flood players back in! Then it would be all the WU players complaining! With rolf you never know!

 

Before i end my post i issue a challenge to the staff. You say your not hiding anything from the players and your not for censorship. Then leave my post up. After all it's just criticism. It's true criticism in my opinion but i have the funny feeling some of you won't like it and will end the thread shortly after this post, you will find a reason. Why because it impedes upon what you folks are trying to do and how you kept the masses in the dark of the overall agenda. If there no agenda then my post only hurts me and makes me look like the fool. But if it hurts you that would be your only reason you could remove it and justify it.

[Meldichoir 242]

People who need to defend their ugliness are likely incapable of civility.  They will continue on with their method because they have no alternative and are already speaking from their true character.

 

I am familiar with the set of rules that are put forth, but I have never seen a list of rights.