Yamuliss

End GM Censorship of the Forums

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1 minute ago, Meldichoir said:

People who need to defend their ugliness are likely incapable of civility.  They will continue on with their method because they have no alternative and are already speaking from their true character.

 

I am familiar with the set of rules that are put forth, but I have never seen a list of rights.

Rights are common sense that every individual on the planet has. The right to speak your mind and to agree to disagree without threat of abuse to that right! I may not agree with what you just posted for example but it is your right thus we agree to disagree and we have kept it civil.

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I would have to say that Code Club has all the rights in this situation, but I suppose you do still have the right to walk away. 

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15 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

But crying out loud people this is GAME! Do you understand that it's a game.

And that is one of a many reasons why there are forum rules - so the mayority of users/players can enjoy reading the forum and play.

But common sense is obviously something different when it comes to your ("you" in general) own "right to speak your mind"...

 

Lighten up, it is a game!

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1 minute ago, Meldichoir said:

I would have to say that Code Club has all the rights in this situation, but I suppose you do still have the right to walk away. 

I have the right to speak my mind. You have the right to disagree with me.  Code Club has the right to refuse service to me as a business. I think people in general get the concept of whats said. 

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7 minutes ago, KaiH said:

And that is one of a many reasons why there are forum rules - so the mayority of users/players can enjoy reading the forum and play.

But common sense is obviously something different when it comes to your ("you" in general) own "right to speak your mind"...

 

Lighten up, it is a game!

Again you as moderator and game staff member should be neutral in any argument or thread posted on the forum not having an opinion one way or another unless your on your own private account where it doesn't identify you as a moderator. My next post is going to suggest as such. I feel Moderators and GMs should be restricted from using there status to influence the game. If your on the game in the forum addressing your concerns or business in general pertaining to the game then you should be on a ALT. If you are there for staff related reason and are there enforce rules and conduct code club business then you should be on the forum account your on which says your a moderator. I feel its fear mongering. People see your shiny little green title and think they can't disagree with you.

Edited by Yamuliss

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limiting a moderator does not change the rules, it does only limit the moderators capabilities to do her/his job.

and my post above is neutral :)

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4 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

Again you as moderator and game staff member should be neutral in any argument or thread posted on the forum not having an opinion one way or another unless your on your own private account where it doesn't identify you as a moderator.

 

So you say that not everyone should be entitled to free speech?

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17 minutes ago, Meldichoir said:

 

So you say that not everyone should be entitled to free speech?

What is a Game Moderator or a GM. They are a referee of sorts a problem solver. To be fair as a GM or a Moderator you must be neutral to a topic or issue. Basically not siding with anyone on any issue regardless the subject matter until a official ruling been made.

 

He is entitled as a player and on a player forum account to say what ever he or she likes. But i feel if he representing Code Club and he knows this! He should not be using his authority to manipulate what others express in a forum topic whether it be this topic or any other topic he should be neutral while he on that forum account representing himself as a staff member.

 

Again thats common sense and makes perfect sense to those that know the difference between right and wrong. Example, You wouldn't allow the Judge presiding over a trial to join the jury in a jury decision. Thus why people sometimes pick a Judge over a Jury or a Jury and a Judge. No different in this case.

 

Chat Moderator decides whats appropriate and whats not and it's a judgment. To then go through and start putting personal bias into a topic for his or her own personal gain as a Moderator and flashing that he or she is a moderator while doing could suggest a power move. (Do and think  as i say because look i am a Chat Moderator) for example. I say it's a abuse of power in my opinion.

Edited by Yamuliss

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limiting a moderator does not change the rules, it does only limit the moderators capabilities to do her/his job.

and my post above is neutral :)

How does it limit your ability to do your job by forcing you to use two separate forum accounts. your going to conduct business as a moderator jump on your moderator account. Your going to conduct business as a player jump on your player account where you hold no power to influence one way or another. You know this :)

 

You addressed me personally as follow:  But common sense is obviously something different when it comes to your ("you" in general) own "right to speak your mind"...  THIS IS NOT BEING NEUTRAL you could twist the words i suppose to pass your judgment that it is. You being a moderator and you saying that you was neutral when this doesn't look neutral brings into question if you are a good moderator or not if you can not tell the difference between the two. That act that you singled me out with your reference of Your then ("you" in general) you knew exactly how to word that in such a way as to not get yourself in hot water but at the same time get your point of disagreement across. You knew exactly what you was doing in your response which in my opinion was not neutral, but we will let the rest reading make judgment on that. For im not perfect and these are words on a screen not words spoken. Thus the importance to try and stay as neutral as possible being in the position your in as a Staff member so that things are not taken out of context.

Edited by Yamuliss

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10 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

But i feel if he representing Code Club and he knows this! He should not being using his authority to manipulate what others express in a forum topic whether it be this topic or any other topic he should be nuetral while he on that forum account representing himself as a staff member.

 

Quote

Enki said:

This is a friendly reminder that we are players too, though we have volunteered to take on some added responsibilities.  Most people treat us accordingly as normal players and when we are acting on behalf of the team most tend to respect our efforts.

 

---

 

2 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

How does it limit your ability to do your job by forcing you to use two separate forum accounts.

 

It does not limit their ability to do their job by using only one. Their role is tied to their input, providing transparency.

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You know as well as i do why they use the one account to do all of it.

 

You think a new player to the game is more likely to buy from a stranger vs a staff member?

You think a new player to the game is more likely to side and listen to a staff member vs a player concerning topics on the forum?

 How is that being fair and impartial?

 

No harm in the staff having one forum account for staff use and one as a player for player use. 

Enki right they are players as well but they should identify while playing as players not as staff.

 

You guys wanted constructive censor ship now that i have opened a can of worms into your back door you can't ignore whats been said for it's true and it's an unfair advantage. While i played this game took on many issues and many topics and fought hard and solo, The chat moderator took a blind eye and stayed quit while i fended off repulsive people who personally attacked. Now all the sudden you folks are for censor ship with FUD and so fourth. Really? Now you don't like that i pointed out how you guys have an unfair advantage in the game as Staff. You know it's true! Guy's you can't have it both ways. You just can't! People being quite and reading it because they know as i do that every word of it is true they don't want to upset the mighty players who are staff for fear of reprisal. Im not playing so i have nothing to lose. I own no accounts to be banned. I sold everything off that had value. So there for i can freely speak my mind and put fourth the truths that are out in front of everyone. You have to take some blame for this staff you created this mess and only you guys can fix it. I have read through every post. Some saying hey look the forums have always been a problem. Why is it a problem? It's a problem because the relax position thats been taken to turn a blind eye to some things but focus on others instead of being fair and partial across the board. No one to blame but yourselves. You want censorship you should have done that months and even years ago from the get go and you should have defined it at great lengths as to what was ok and what was not ok not just some broad paragraph or two. The drama and the garbage thats unfolded onto the forum and into the game is because of a relaxed position on what the rules really are.

Edited by Yamuliss

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10 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

Enki right they are players as well but they should identify while playing as players not as staff.

 

Certainly you realize that they will only ever be a single individual. They have been given additional abilities regarding upholding the rules of the company which has the right to call all the shots.

 

14 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

You think a new player to the game is more likely to buy from a stranger vs a staff member?

You think a new player to the game is more likely to side and listen to a staff member vs a player concerning topics on the forum?

 How is that being fair and impartial?

 

It is fair to allow everyone to represented, and those colorful tags mark them as having trusted roles; the new players can be impartial with their dealings if they wish.

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7 minutes ago, Meldichoir said:

 

Certainly you realize that they will only ever be a single individual. They have been given additional abilities regarding upholding the rules of the company which has the right to call all the shots.

 

 

It is fair to allow everyone to represented, and those colorful tags mark them as having trusted roles; the new players can be impartial with their dealings if they wish.

I agree.  Moderators are players too.  According to Yam moderators shouldn't have the same right to free speech as everyone else that he's been preaching about?  Doesn't make sense.  Unfortunately the circular debate is only spinning its wheels as this point.

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No slick shot as usual very good at twisting words. About as good as you are at buying accounts then changing your mind and backing out of the deals you make so yes in short  i do remember! But thats for a different Topic Slickshot. I said Moderator should act as moderators and GMs should act as GMs and be neutral while on those accounts they should have separate player accounts to conduct there FREE SPEECH, you twisting my words doesn't further embellish your reputation. Not in my opinion does it help you achieve anything with me.

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3 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

No slick shot as usual very good at twisting words. About as good as you are at buying accounts then changing your mind and backing out of the deals you make so yes in short  i do remember! But thats for a different Topic Slickshot. I said Moderator should act as moderators and GMs should act as GMs and be neutral while on those accounts they should have separate player accounts to conduct there FREE SPEECH, you twisting my words doesn't further embellish your reputation. Not in my opinion does it help you achieve anything with me.

Two questions:  How is me sharing my opinion of them [staff] continuing as they always have, translate to me twisting your words?  That makes no sense at all.  Stop trying to look for someone to blame.  Another thing, when did I ever try to buy an account?  Never in my tenure of Wurm have I attempted to buy or sell an account.  I've price checked priest accounts, but never contacted anyone to purchase.  Please take your accusations elsewhere.

Edited by Slickshot

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25 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

Two questions:  How is me sharing my opinion of them [staff] continuing as they always have, translate to me twisting your words?  That makes no sense at all.  Stop trying to look for someone to blame.  Another thing, when did I ever try to buy an account?  Never in my tenure of Wurm have I attempted to buy or sell an account.  I've price checked priest accounts, but never contacted anyone to purchase.  Please take your accusations elsewhere.

The following your words from up above.   I agree.  Moderators are players too.  According to Yam moderators shouldn't have the same right to free speech as everyone else that he's been preaching about?  Doesn't make sense.  Unfortunately the circular debate is only spinning its wheels as this point.

 

Where did i say slickshot that Moderators and GMs shouldn't have freedom of speech point this out for all to see in my words not a twisted version of it.

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Its been talked about as an increase to censor whats called corrective criticism and to allow moderators to modify or remove comments and posts as a whole that are not what is deemed corrective criticism that which might offend some. In short censorship of the forums following FUD!

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3 hours ago, Meldichoir said:

I would have to say that Code Club has all the rights in this situation, but I suppose you do still have the right to walk away. 

It is always sad to see an ordinary player so willing to give away all his rights. Sad not for just this game but in general.

Once again, I will never understand people stating something in the lines "I just want to have fun, who gives a poo about freedom of speech, take all my rights and just hand me the popcorn. And you guys, if you are so sensitive about freedom of speech, get lost."

 

3 hours ago, Meldichoir said:

So you say that not everyone should be entitled to free speech?

Complete nonsense, Yamuliss didn't say that.

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3 hours ago, Patreus said:

It is always sad to see an ordinary player so willing to give away all his rights.

 

ROFL.  Give away rights?  Guffaw.  You can't give away what you never had to begin with.  People still thinking anyone but the owner of the forum has, or should have, any "rights?"   LOL.  

 

Read up on "right" to free speech.  “Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.”   We are free to speak our minds without government interference, BUT.. even then it is still subject to laws against libel, incitement to violence or rebellion, etc., etc., etc., etc.  You have no "rights" here.   I defy you to find anywhere that legally supports forum users having the "right" to do as they please irregardless of the wishes of the forum owner or that a forum owner can't boot whoever the hell he pleases for any reason he pleases.   And what about that?  What about the "rights" of the one that owns the forum?   I'm sure if it was your forum you'd be singing a whole different tune.  /face palm

 

 

Edited by Amadee

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56 minutes ago, Amadee said:

 

ROFL.  Give away rights?  Guffaw.  You can't give away what you never had to begin with.  People still thinking anyone but the owner of the forum has, or should have, any "rights?"   LOL.  

 

Read up on "right" to free speech.  “Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.”   We are free to speak our minds without government interference, BUT.. even then it is still subject to laws against libel, incitement to violence or rebellion, etc., etc., etc., etc.  You have no "rights" here.   I defy you to find anywhere that legally supports forum users having the "right" to do as they please irregardless of the wishes of the forum owner or that a forum owner can't boot whoever the hell he pleases for any reason he pleases.   And what about that?  What about the "rights" of the one that owns the forum?   I'm sure if it was your forum you'd be singing a whole different tune.  /face palm

 

 

This is not a political setting and the game itself is not a government. it's a private business providing entertainment rights with one owner that oversees the functionality of both the game and the forum with the assistance of volunteers and very few paid employees. Yes he can do what ever he likes and wants to do but in a Internet social setting as such seen in the forum and ingame an individual has the right to freedom of expression and concerns and opinions as a whole. Show me the direct rule where Rolf and his team states that you do not have this right? Show me that exact rule where it says you must shut up play the game and never complain about anything and be happy with what ever the staff and owner says! Show me where it says that hmm? If you can show me that ill pull both my threads and never comment again on the forum, ill even do one better tell the game where to go and never come back to it. But see there is no such rule or announcement made. Closest thing to it is the FUD issue and this crazy notion to bring about more moderation.

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32 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

This is not a political setting and the game itself is not a government. it's a private business providing entertainment rights with one owner that oversees the functionality of both the game and the forum with the assistance of volunteers and very few paid employees.

 

Correct

 

32 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

Yes he can do what ever he likes and wants to do but in a Internet social setting as such seen in the forum and ingame an individual has the right to freedom of expression and concerns and opinions as a whole.

 

Incorrect since you still choose to use the word **right**   Especially in view of  your own first sentence.  They have granted us the **privilege** of posting here, subject to the rules, and they've actually imposed very few restrictions on what we can say.  Mostly just how we say it.  And btw, that is their **right**

 

40 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

Show me the direct rule where Rolf and his team states that you do not have this right?

 

Show me the one where it says you do.  Show me anything, anywhere, where it says you have any "rights" whatsoever on a private forum.  But if it would make you happy, (unlikely), maybe they should put that somewhere in the rules.  lol.

 

40 minutes ago, Yamuliss said:

Show me that exact rule where it says you must shut up play the game and never complain about anything and be happy with what ever the staff and owner says! Show me where it says that hmm? If you can show me that ill pull both my threads and never comment again on the forum, ill even do one better tell the game where to go and never come back to it.

 

Show me where it says that's what they want us to do.  Had they ever said that, then I'd have something to point to.  lol.  Sounds to me like you got your hand slapped for something and are now being sour grapes about it rather than admitting you were probably in the wrong.   Do a google search on the word "specious."  That describes your arguments.

 

Anyway, this is a fruitless debate so with this, I will now bow out. 

 

 

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You are publishing your thoughts electronically to someone else's equipment configured to display those thoughts automatically. By publishing them digitally, you automatically and implicitly retain ownership of them unless explicitly relinquished. You may post them wherever you wish and they are yours. The symbols representing them are not. The data the comprises them is not.

 

You are offered no warranty, no protection, no service, no issuance or ownership, no right beyond that which the owner of the system grants you within the confines of a license that can be redefined at any time, with or without notice, without reservation. As such, anything you write can be deleted, distorted or destroyed to whatever extent the owner of that system or those with whom the owner has vested power decide. Your rights end where the system owner's begin and that right is property. You have been extended a platform at the whim of the owner of the publication system, this does not make that system or its content yours.

 

The only right you have is to the intellectual property your words represent upon publication. You own your thoughts and nothing else. So for the sake of rights, you sir, encroach unfairly.

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5 minutes ago, Zerocool said:

You are publishing your thoughts electronically to someone else's equipment configured to display those thoughts automatically. By publishing them digitally, you automatically and implicitly retain ownership of them unless explicitly relinquished. You may post them wherever you wish and they are yours. The symbols representing them are not. The data the comprises them is not.

 

You are offered no warranty, no protection, no service, no issuance or ownership, no right beyond that which the owner of the system grants you within the confines of a license that can be redefined at any time, with or without notice, without reservation. As such, anything you write can be deleted, distorted or destroyed to whatever extent the owner of that system or those with whom the owner has vested power decide. Your rights end where the system owner's begin and that right is property. You have been extended a platform at the whim of the owner of the publication system, this does not make that system or its content yours.

 

The only right you have is to the intellectual property your words represent upon publication. You own your thoughts and nothing else. So for the sake of rights, you sir, encroach unfairly.

Most informative reply I've seen yet.

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7 minutes ago, Zerocool said:

You are publishing your thoughts electronically to someone else's equipment configured to display those thoughts automatically. By publishing them digitally, you automatically and implicitly retain ownership of them unless explicitly relinquished. You may post them wherever you wish and they are yours. The symbols representing them are not. The data the comprises them is not.

 

You are offered no warranty, no protection, no service, no issuance or ownership, no right beyond that which the owner of the system grants you within the confines of a license that can be redefined at any time, with or without notice, without reservation. As such, anything you write can be deleted, distorted or destroyed to whatever extent the owner of that system or those with whom the owner has vested power decide. Your rights end where the system owner's begin and that right is property. You have been extended a platform at the whim of the owner of the publication system, this does not make that system or its content yours.

 

The only right you have is to the intellectual property your words represent upon publication. You own your thoughts and nothing else. So for the sake of rights, you sir, encroach unfairly.

i see nothing wrong with what you said and it doesn't dismiss what i have said.

Edited by Yamuliss

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