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Retrograde

WO, WU, and FUD

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When FUD gets released, will it be a monthly subscription or a pay-once-and-play-forever model?

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Also I've been reading all these posts for a while now, my two cents on the most toxic individual by far is someone I've actually previously blocked long ago. Can still see he's toxic from others replies: Ours is the Fury

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I guess I don't understand why a new policy was needed? Specifically one that is so vaguely worded and can be applied to a lot of anything that is discussed in wurm where opinions are never held back. Since so much of the above stated thread needed cleaning up, why not just post saying it had run it's course and was considered closed? I've seen that done a lot with threads.

 

8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

FUD (Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt) is a strategy to influence perception by spreading negative and false information designed to cause a company's customers to be insecure about future product plans.

This is a legitimate concern for the *devs* of wurm, not the fanboys of wurm. I have noticed a few, note the word few, people routinely posting negative things about wurm, and I believe there are probably a plethora of reasons why this could be. The above stated statement means that from now on, in a business sense most negative statements about WO on the wurm forums will be dealt with high level of censorship? I understand not tolerating Dev, or staff bashing, and I fully support those efforts.

But haven't the wurm forums generally tolerated a wide breadth of opinions about the game ? The fact the negative voices are now so much louder then the positive voices and the Dev team feels a need for a draconian tactic like this are both a concern for me. If I disagree with something that's done and comment as such, will I be moderated and warned for FUD? Where does this stop and start? 
On a last note, anyone who has seen the sub graph and can tell up from down does realize that something has to change in WO, I took a look at WU sales today and they're not exactly off the charts either. IF as a Developer you do NOT wish people to use this data in their discussions and postings, I suggest you remove it, yes, for years we have  had access to it, but right now the data is damaging to Wurm. When your customers can see your bottom line drying up, they are much quicker to reactive negatively then when they cannot see it at all. I've now said my piece and thrown my 2 cents onto the forums :)
Pingpong

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Life is Feudal incident all over again, shame I am too apathetic to actually do anything this time.

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56 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

I will leave this here as a reminder to all.

 

Challenging Moderation

A ) You should never challenge moderator actions in public.

 - All challenges relating to moderation action should be sent privately to a forum moderator. If a satisfactory solution cannot be achieved then send your concerns to the Lead Forum Moderator.

B ) If you have had a post removed and are unable to determine the reason after a careful review of the Forum Rules, contact a forum moderator with any questions regarding why.

Thanks! I sometimes forget how backwards this forum can be.

 

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This is not an introduction of a new policy.

 

this is an explanation of the reason that thread was removed. Plenty of feedback has been taken from it, and while there are key points made in it, it simply became a den of abusing staff, other players and developers.

 

I'm aware those who feel passionate about the game may have frustration with actions in the past, and wish to see improvement. We all wish to see improvements in both the current system and how future implementations come out as well as many other aspects, you are not alone in feeling this way.

 

Playing the blame game, or abusing developers or staff is not condusive to a discussion in any way shape or form, and the level of incorrect assumptions and false statements made in that thread made it very difficult to moderate. We are not censoring negative feedback, but we will not condone staff, player, or developer abuse.

 

We have a clear set of goals ahead of us, and we wish to push towards those in a positive manner, improving communication, effective advertising, addition of new features, and ensuring that currently existing and future mechanics operate as smoothly as possible (i.e. bug squishing)

 

Retrograde

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19 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

This is not an introduction of a new policy.

 

this is an explanation of the reason that thread was removed. Plenty of feedback has been taken from it, and while there are key points made in it, it simply became a den of abusing staff, other players and developers.

 

I'm aware those who feel passionate about the game may have frustration with actions in the past, and wish to see improvement. We all wish to see improvements in both the current system and how future implementations come out as well as many other aspects, you are not alone in feeling this way.

 

Playing the blame game, or abusing developers or staff is not condusive to a discussion in any way shape or form, and the level of incorrect assumptions and false statements made in that thread made it very difficult to moderate. We are not censoring negative feedback, but we will not condone staff, player, or developer abuse.

 

We have a clear set of goals ahead of us, and we wish to push towards those in a positive manner, improving communication, effective advertising, addition of new features, and ensuring that currently existing and future mechanics operate as smoothly as possible (i.e. bug squishing)

 

Retrograde

This is about as clear as you can get for an explanation into forum/game appropriate conduct.  Thank you for outlining the necessity of constructive criticism, versus the detriment of abusive and misinformed behavior.  Hoping for the best!

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Dont worry buddy you'll become staff one day if you just believe hard enough

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I find it interesting that so many are saying players are leaving Wurm Online in droves. I play quite frequently around Esteron and funnily enough, our alliance has only been growing by leaps and bounds. Up to 40+ deeds in the alliance when there were only 3-4 just a few months back. And a lot of them are newbies that spawned at Esteron, finding their way over from Wurm Unlimited to check out what the original game was like.

 

From MY perspective WO has only grown since WU was released. Wurm Online is ever more attractive with all the improvements that have been made of late. Are things perfect? Of course not, but that is honestly just the nature of the "game". Perfection is something strived for but rarely, if ever, achieved. But instead there is a knee-jerk reaction to most things put out by staff, judging and criticizing before the ink is even dry. As a (volunteer) staff member and, more importantly, player of WO, I'd like to see people put their energy forth in more positive ways. Being negative, criticizing and bashing staff is not constructive and makes for bad blood all around. Retro was just explaining why a particular thread was closed and it somehow became about a new policy restricting complaints about the game/staff. That clearly was not his intent as he details above.

 

I see a bright future for Wurm Online. There's lots of new blood and new building happening in our neck of the woods, anyway. Come join us if you need to be reminded of what it's like to be a Wurmian! ;)

Edited by Araninke
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^Pinch iv just started screenshotting everything and reviewing it by the rules & FUD, And whatever doesn't make any sense, Reported to Enki & Now MamaDarkness. Just waiting on action by them and waiting on LFM to read the report i sent. 

 

25 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

This is not an introduction of a new policy.

 

this is an explanation of the reason that thread was removed. Plenty of feedback has been taken from it, and while there are key points made in it, it simply became a den of abusing staff, other players and developers.

 

I'm aware those who feel passionate about the game may have frustration with actions in the past, and wish to see improvement. We all wish to see improvements in both the current system and how future implementations come out as well as many other aspects, you are not alone in feeling this way.

 

Playing the blame game, or abusing developers or staff is not condusive to a discussion in any way shape or form, and the level of incorrect assumptions and false statements made in that thread made it very difficult to moderate. We are not censoring negative feedback, but we will not condone staff, player, or developer abuse.

 

We have a clear set of goals ahead of us, and we wish to push towards those in a positive manner, improving communication, effective advertising, addition of new features, and ensuring that currently existing and future mechanics operate as smoothly as possible (i.e. bug squishing)

 

Retrograde

 

I understand moderation of false assumptions, False statements, Staff abuse or player abuse need to be kept in line. But what about the people who make such topics basically impossible to have a reasonable conversation in? If lets say SideA has facts, and SideB has there personal opinion on those facts and keeps ignoring SideA's facts just because SideB thinks there opinion is right, How can you have any kind of discussion thats proper? There just going to keep twisting facts into a positive outlook and calling slander on whatever you say, and sooner or later people will and do get frustrated with there passive-aggressive-trolling and will just insult them. 

 

Additionally it also doesn't help if your only removing one half of the issue. If your only removing the reply(Which is the negative comment), Reasonably speaking here that reply was given because the original post incited a negative response and not anything else. a reasonable discussion gives reasonable responses. A declining discussion will only produce declining replies. 

 

Additionally to @Retrograde personally, I am sorry for making a big deal out of FUD somehow with only a few sentences. Its just that i was hit by FUD in the distant past and was curious if its going to be listed in the current forum rules or not. Slickshot clearly didn't like that at all and like i said earlier, brought on a declining discussion about it. 

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some of the best posts ive seen is criticism about some features or changed ingame.  if you can't take criticism you might as well not have a real forum and just announcements of changes added to the game.  i personally like seeing negative posts, not because they influence my opinion, but they actually reinforce my own if I think positively about it.  the best part about a forum is how different opinions mesh together,  I really really don't see how you can get rid of posts or topics because people are trying to being forward an issue they feel strongly about, positive or negative it should be up for discussion.  Not thrown into the shadows so people just get extra salty ingame. 

 

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it would be cool if the staff made one and explain in ACTUAL detail what they plan on doing about it.  I've seen the "we have tons of features we're looking to add" for years now and to be honest I could care less about more half finished features.  If you cut back on them and fixed the bugs with the features we have now, or improved the features we have now, I'd buy a damn year of premium for a few of my accounts. 

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Always believed the problem of FUD was caused by the developers and Prior community managers

 

Seems a lot of the community would rather have Ask your questions to the Devs ( irc or other chat service) more regularly maybe every 2-3 months in additions to the nice weekly updates you been doing lately Retro

 

Also Dev posting from outside of the forums should also be collected here and arranged nicely

 

Having a updated Upcoming features should also be posted on Wurmpedia

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Now this has made me wonder even more now, about something I read in the global chat some weeks ago.
 

Spoiler

It was a person slandering (?) one of the WU server owners and how he treated his staff.

Since I also play on that server it has affected my gameplay and what I say in the chat there.
Only way I can find out if that was slander or true is to confront the server owner.

 

Someone had previously told me that the player who said these things in Global is a staffmember, althou this was not the "staff account" talking.

 

Is this something I should have screenshotted and reported to Rolf?

Since WU actually also is Rolfs baby and FUD should apply there also.
I felt really bad reading something like that right in global for anyone to read (because I reacted to it as it if was said by staff)

 

Not gonna evaluate the server owner that was mentioned, I don't really feel that it matters.
What I reacted over was the "presumably staffmember" talking in a manner that would push people away from one of the more active servers of WU.
Not gonna mention what staff position this player presumably has.


And now since this has nagged me some weeks I also started to play on Buddas server yesterday instead of/beside the other server.


I know this would not have affected me had I not been told who was behind the account, then I would have just seen it as another sour player. but now :( I have sad face

 

Anyways...
Does FUD also apply to staff, on their staff accounts and/or player accounts?

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@Cecci (can't quote, this forum software is horrible :P)

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. Wurm Unlimited, from an officially supported stand point, is the game and server software and the content within the two maps that come with it - hosted by you. So FUD doesn't really apply to player-hosted servers because they're always going to be a variable.

 

Now as for a "member of staff on a non staff account" - that really should be enough right there. We're people and players too. We donate our time, should we also turn off our brains and cancel all thought? No, I don't think so. Must we be cautious? Sure. But we're human, so things slip. Personally, global chat on Wurm Online isn't really the proper place to discuss private WU servers anyway.

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About FUD my question regards WO staff.

It is in Code Clubs interest to sell as many copies of WU as possible.
But Code Club is not responsable of how those WU servers are run ofc.

 

I agree, you and we are players and in private convos, and to some extent in alliance convos we can speak our minds more freely.
And I suppose most of staff have several accounts just like I do, out of love for this game.

 

NB: I don't know either for sure that the player talking is defacto staff.

But if he is or not aside, I wonder to what extent FUD applies to the players that are also staff?

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19 minutes ago, Cecci said:

About FUD my question regards WO staff.

It is in Code Clubs interest to sell as many copies of WU as possible.
But Code Club is not responsable of how those WU servers are run ofc.

 

I agree, you and we are players and in private convos, and to some extent in alliance convos we can speak our minds more freely.
And I suppose most of staff have several accounts just like I do, out of love for this game.

 

NB: I don't know either for sure that the player talking is defacto staff.

But if he is or not aside, I wonder to what extent FUD applies to the players that are also staff?

 

According to what iv been told, Player staff have to obey the same set of rules along side the staff rules that they got on there staff board. Staff are not exempt from rules as far as i know or am concerned. 

 

If wanted i can dig around my logs to figure out who said that exactly. Not gonna look for it if its not asked tho. 

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Exactly who it was is of lesser importance.
 

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Please... please... please LOCK THIS THREAD !!!!

Players AND staff have had there say 10x TIMES OVER !!!!

 

Your just stoking a fire that has already been burning for over 4 months now and are getting no where with this.

Players like or dislike WO or WU and the staff have said what there going to do about this and how to go forward with WO..... IT'S DONE.

If you don't like the game then just leave and play another game... how hard can that decision be. ?

 

You closed a thread because it had "Run it's course and became toxic", and yes i understand why you started this one to tell the players why that was done, but this thread is just going the

same way.

While i do fell a bit salty about some of the things Rolf and the team have done, or are doing, And yes at times they ask you for idea's and it seems your just talking to the wind, this thread is in

no way helping at all.

Lets play some Wurm (WO or WU) or not.... it's up to you all.

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3 hours ago, Keenan said:

@Cecci (can't quote, this forum software is horrible :P)

 

Truer words have never been spoken. The joke is in the meta.

Edited by Dairuka
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Hi,

 

after participating in game forums for years & years I regard this move as not good at all.

 

Deleting posts, or even more whole threads, will always alienate many participants - those that had written will be angry to see their efforts spoilt, as well as those that sympathized with one side. And those that didn't write nor read will read about the deletion, get curious, but can only rely on hearsay.

 

So, actually, deleting in a forum* is the best way to create Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt!

(* without notice, explanation & facts that actually require a deletion)

 

Since I see posts above mine deleted while I write I'll stop here. Not worth my time, the FUD has worked.

 

No fun. :(

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I am only copying moderator words here. Apparently this post cannot be removed then:

 

The Wurm Online forum is not a democracy and not protected by any form of freedom of speech laws.

 

No comments. they simply say it all.

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Patreus, it is pretty common both in onlinegames and in other forums really.

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The original intention of this thread was to provide transparency as to why the thread in question was removed. We left this open to allow players the opportunity and appropriate channel to discuss this, This does not mean allowing a space to violate the forum rules. It is clear that while some players are voicing constructive concerns,  others are resorting to more staff bashing and challenging moderation. As such, we will be locking this thread from further comments.

 

I appreciate the feedback from you all, and I do hope to improve communication both in what we have planned for Wurm in the future, as well as moderation actions. Feedback is a two way street and I'm aware that in the past this has been lacking in both ways, both listening and talking.

 

These changes will take time, as much as we would all love to see things improved overnight it is unrealistic to expect that to happen. These are changes that we all want, and I hope we can all work together to bring these changes and make everyone feel much more appreciated, staff and players alike.

 

I am always available on IRC and via email or forum PM to take feedback and concerns. If you do have further concerns or wish to make comment, please feel free to use those methods to contact me.

 

Retrograde

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