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Dairuka

How long will it take, how long until you break? To talk you into advertising space?

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Despite the predictions being made by many people on the forums, I remain cautiously optimistic that the current state of Wurm Online is ready for prime time.

 

Latency issues and server positioning aside - travel has never been more appealing; the game's level of customization and openness to creativity has never been more accessible; and the potential for new innovations remains as high as ever.

 

December's recent change in focus to a mantra of, "Punishment does not equal Challenge" has proven successful in stemming the blood loss of accounts, however, we're still at a critical juncture in this game's existence. Morale remains at an all time low, and people are continuously talking about the potential of the game's death. I don't agree.

 

However, I don't want to see Wurm stagnate at an average of 400 players online at any given time either.

 

There needs to be a long conversation about advertising, and the conversation needs to include everybody on these forums, and in game. People need to believe again, and it's up to CodeClub AB to make us believe.

 


 

To the community as a whole. If you were in CodeClub AB's position, and you had a game that you know would attract a large quantity of niche players that are hopelessly suffering through games like Xsyon and Mortal Online. What would you do to advertise to them? How would you convince players who've left Wurm 5 years ago while it was still trying to figure out what it wanted to be, to come back and try Wurm out again?

 

Edited by Dairuka
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Yea they definitely need to advertise more

I only found out about wurm when i stumbled across in on a games review site

Never seen any advertisement for it sadly

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Out of curiosity, what sort of advertising are you expecting to see? 

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Just now, zigon said:

Yea they definitely need to advertise more

I only found out about wurm when i stumbled across in on a games review site

Never seen any advertisement for it sadly

 

We were just talking about this in Global. How everybody had a different story about how they stumbled into Wurm Online.

 

With the exclusion of the invasions, this appears to be the most common story - "I saw someone talk about in a forum post", "I randomly clicked a link on MMORPG.com's list", "I googled for Adult Minecraft"

 

Wurm Online is a much better game than it used to be. It's not mainstream by any measure, but it's definitely got more appeal to a wider spectrum of players than it did even six months ago.

 

Just now, Archaed said:

Out of curiosity, what sort of advertising are you expecting to see? 

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vITEC7jweYBMvTI9ABOwD-fddIa9iP4Cc8Sj9Rve_Vs/edit

 

Advertising - What’s a Worm Online? Is that like the game Worms?:

 

Wurm Online is not ubiquitous. It took me about five minutes on The Giant in the Playground (A Dungeons and Dragons webcomic forum) forums to discover this fact. I brought it up, and started a conversation with a former player. Everybody else who came into the thread started poking jokes about us playing a game nobody else had ever heard of. When we showed the game to them - they mocked because of the graphics.

 

Wurm Online is the type of game that needs to be discovered. At the same time, it’s the type of game that is very well hidden in the depths of the video gaming library.

 

This can be rectified with something as simple as a banner advertisement with a silly slogan like, “New and Improved” or “Wurm has never looked better.”

 

Of course, for this to be effective - you can’t just throw your banner onto an expensive gaming website and expect the triple-A community to treat you with any respect. You’ll largely draw in a crowd that won’t mesh well with Wurm Online’s gameplay, and the forums will burn up with whines from players who just don’t understand your game and it’s vision.

 

I suggest targeted marketing:

 

  • Video Game Webcomic Websites.

  • Pen and Paper Game Discussion Forums.

  • Small, Niche Video Game Review Sites.

 

Locate websites with a fanbase similar to your own. Offer them a low rate per click, rather than per view. Then go after the audience that would be curious in a game like Wurm Online, and give them an opportunity to discover it on their own. Opening up forum posts rarely works to this case, because it’s usually derailed by former players who have a chip on their shoulder and see this as an opportunity to bash the game - even if they haven’t played it since 2007. Keep an eye on the metrics, and drop the banners that don’t pull in any curiosity clicks - ask your fanbase for help in locating more places to potentially advertise on. Expand. Expand. Expand.

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6 minutes ago, zigon said:

Yea they definitely need to advertise more

I only found out about wurm when i stumbled across in on a games review site

Never seen any advertisement for it sadly

 

So it's out there, and on plenty of MMO sites and also streamers and social media. Or are you thinking larger scale adspace and flashy advertising, the kind thats been done before with little to no impact

 

Btw I've read that document, you assume a lot and make statements based on little to no fact, it's flashy, but in reality it lacks substance of a distinct vision, it';s just wordspam

Edited by Archaed
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Advertising alone won't help - new player retention needs to be looked at at the same time or before you go advertising. Wurm punishes noobs for being noobs (as someone more wise said somewhere here on the forum the games difficulty is upside down. It is hard when you are new and easy when you are a vet).

 

All advertising doesn't help when people create a free toon, play two days, realize it'll probably take a few weeks before they can ride a horse or load a crate unto a cart let alone make some rather basic things like stone walls or large crates that require obscene amount of skill, and quit again.

 

If your answer is "then go play WU" - yeah, that's what people might do. It just doesn't help with the player numbers in WO.

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5 minutes ago, Eltaran said:

Advertising alone won't help - new player retention needs to be looked at at the same time or before you go advertising. Wurm punishes noobs for being noobs (as someone more wise said somewhere here on the forum the games difficulty is upside down. It is hard when you are new and easy when you are a vet).

 

All advertising doesn't help when people create a free toon, play two days, realize it'll probably take a few weeks before they can ride a horse or load a crate unto a cart let alone make some rather basic things like stone walls or large crates that require obscene amount of skill, and quit again.

 

If your answer is "then go play WU" - yeah, that's what people might do. It just doesn't help with the player numbers in WO.

yea wurm need to help out noobs more

When i first started it was very hard very often getting killed which kept irritating me,

Once you get to 50+ fs and can ride a horse not much can kill you

 

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5 minutes ago, zigon said:

yea wurm need to help out noobs more

When i first started it was very hard very often getting killed which kept irritating me,

Once you get to 50+ fs and can ride a horse not much can kill you

 

 

My first three days in Wurm were also my worst three days in Wurm. It wasn't until I joined Roanoke and played alongside Damnyankee and Manowarfan that I got really hooked on Wurm. The sense of community was important.

 

The game is much easier to get into nowadays, but sometimes I can still read frustration in the words of people just getting into Wurm and failing to find purpose. That's also partly our fault. We need to continually emphasize the importance of joining a village to newer players. It really does make Wurm more palatable.

 

Edited by Dairuka
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41 minutes ago, Eltaran said:

Advertising alone won't help - new player retention needs to be looked at at the same time or before you go advertising. Wurm punishes noobs for being noobs (as someone more wise said somewhere here on the forum the games difficulty is upside down. It is hard when you are new and easy when you are a vet).

 

All advertising doesn't help when people create a free toon, play two days, realize it'll probably take a few weeks before they can ride a horse or load a crate unto a cart let alone make some rather basic things like stone walls or large crates that require obscene amount of skill, and quit again.

 

If your answer is "then go play WU" - yeah, that's what people might do. It just doesn't help with the player numbers in WO.

I would call it progression..

 

EDIT About advertising tho.. It has been done. Considering they stopped advertising, I think it is safe to assume, that it didn't have big effect on income (while it still has effect on costs).

Edited by rixk
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Progression is not being able top build a Caravell from start but having to start with a rowing boat. Progression is not being able to produce HQ items from start but having to skill up. Not being able to use basic functionalities isn't progression, it's cruelty. Sometimes it looks like Wurm WANTS to drive new players away. Why do new players have to be forced to live in a fugly wooden shack (if they manage to level a tile at all)? Why do new players have to be forced not to be able to have a cart with at least small crates? These little things add up and make the game a chore early on where it should ease noobs in and get them hooked.

 

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Advertise PAYED for is needed...  why the hell is facebook farmvile game most played game? Well hello its on facebook... lets get that sorted... youtube ads, fb ads google ads...  so many great options...  if only 5% of wurm income goes in ads there will be resoult!!    And why not made mini wurm game on facebook  ?

 

Also   i would give for first premium time made...   21.1 skills in all categorys  that will be also free charter booost.  Only for players who buy time from shop

Edited by Sila

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Starter towns or spawns need to be center of every server community... old players have nothing to do there now.   Mybe will be good to have examine board to buy bulk as on test... 1silver and large create of bricks pop out  or to get 1 wild horse per 24h .... many ideas to make community places.. option on player to give him tip that go directly to his bank...  and why our charters still fidnt learn to dance in afk!!!    Seems rolf like to sit when afk...

Edited by Sila

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1 hour ago, Eltaran said:

Progression is not being able top build a Caravell from start but having to start with a rowing boat. Progression is not being able to produce HQ items from start but having to skill up. Not being able to use basic functionalities isn't progression, it's cruelty. Sometimes it looks like Wurm WANTS to drive new players away. Why do new players have to be forced to live in a fugly wooden shack (if they manage to level a tile at all)? Why do new players have to be forced not to be able to have a cart with at least small crates? These little things add up and make the game a chore early on where it should ease noobs in and get them hooked.

 

Heh, why it is a problem that players have to live in a "fugly wooden shack", but it isn't a problem, that they can't sail/build a caravel and have to sail with a fugly rowboat? Same thing essentially. That fugly wooden shack has same basic functionality like that high ql stone wall, as they both provide shelter. As does caravel have compared to rowboat, they both get you from point A to point B.

That's the thing.. High QL, yes, when we look at tools, it matters, thats why there is no real skill requirement in creating tools. But those items, where QL doesn't matter, have skill requirement, to have also some kind of progression for that, so you have something to look forward. This is NOT punishment to the newbies as you want to show it..

 

About being hard in the beginning and easy in the later stages. This is the survival aspect in the game. When you are thrown into the wild unprepared and unskilled, of course you are having it hard and as the time passes, it gets easier. Problem isn't that much that it is challenging in the beginning. IMO the problem is, that the challenges stop from some point completely. But at the same time I understand, that if we want to balance the game to make it challenging to experienced gamers and at the same time easy for newbies.. how would you do that? We are all in the same world, what is challenging for me and you, would make the lives of the newbies even harder than current situation.

Edited by rixk
Corrected wording a bit.

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What I am thinking, what Wurm lacks.. It simply lacks a vision. We are currently sailing in a big ship on deep sea, while we have no captain. Rolf's vision was PvP, I think even now he has understood, that doesn't lead anywhere. But after that realization its all blank. The game is now passed the stage, where Rolf usually opened a new server, which brought in some cash and players. But that is not an option any more, instead we got now some devs, who desperately are going through the suggestion forums and try to find that next "jackpot".

But first thing IMO that should be done, is to define, what Wurm actually is. Is it a survival game, is it medieval Sims, PvP game, or just a game, where you grind skills? Current reality is tho, that they try to please every crowd, but in reality none is pleased, because at times all those approaches go in conflict with each ohter.

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Well, fact is that the new player retention is horrible. I can only talk from my personal experience (started in November) and what irked me. Not being able to build a *big* house didn't irk me. Not being able to build a stone house for the looks (which is really that: more or less only COSMETIC on Freedom) did irk me. I very often wondered "why do I have to be limited artificially in this particular aspect in a sandbox as a new player?"

 

Adding better equipment did help already (without it took two of us to kill a rooster in November). Lowering SOME requirements would also help. Being able to dig at some higher slope from start, being able to load small crates with lower body strength requirements, being able to bash walls of your own house without strength requirements, lowering some purely cosmetic requirements - things like that,

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One thing I'll say about advertising:  from talking to a staff member advertising is something Code Club continues to do, but it isn't an instant thing.  Advertising takes time to setup, coordinate, and pay for.  It certainly isn't cheap.  The bottom line is Code Club does advertise, but it isn't always effective due to the type of game this is, not to mention they aren't always able to run large advertising ads because such things tend to bleed money very quickly.  Just some insight.

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1 hour ago, Slickshot said:

from talking to a staff member advertising is something Code Club continues to do, but it isn't an instant thing.  Advertising takes time to setup, coordinate, and pay for.  It certainly isn't cheap. 

 

I want to see that advertisement... just saying.

 

I can also understand that Wurm (and team) is waiting for the next big thing to happen to advertise... but well, we need it to happen before the blood loss drain wurm of it's last resources... the ones building the community and helping those new players to settle in. The tutorial is awfull, the starter towns redesign might help, but newbies being helped properly in their first day is still highly needed. And that contact with the community, done properly, is what helps the players stay.

 

I discovered Wurm after playing Minecraft and reading Notch biography... Decided to test it. Spent like 6 hours in the tutorial failing to make kindlings and unfinished mallets... was a pita, but i survived there. From reading the forums i knew there was a french speaking community in northern deli, so tried to find my way there (i failed poorly) and was invited into a new player town where I was taught the basics. Few months / years forward, I've seen dozens if not hundrens of players try Wurm with friends, discovered from minecraft, failing to find bashur on epic or whatever weird reasons that might have happened. In the end, I stopped running my newbie town, too much personal involvement to see players leave without knowing their reasons for the bigger part.

 

4 hours ago, rixk said:

What I am thinking, what Wurm lacks.. It simply lacks a vision. We are currently sailing in a big ship on deep sea, while we have no captain. Rolf's vision was PvP, I think even now he has understood, that doesn't lead anywhere. But after that realization its all blank.

 

This sadly, right now Wurm is a glorified community chat, where we watch timers while creating items we cannot sell and use from time to time in community events or just mindless slaughtering of poor creatures (why do the wildcats look so good ?!).

 

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4 hours ago, rixk said:

But first thing IMO that should be done, is to define, what Wurm actually is. Is it a survival game, is it medieval Sims, PvP game, or just a game, where you grind skills? Current reality is tho, that they try to please every crowd, but in reality none is pleased, because at times all those approaches go in conflict with each ohter.

If I could like this twice, I would! Feels more like a medieval Sims™ to me and that's pretty much the way I play it.  I'm starting to get bored with it though, finding myself longing for a more fast paced challenge.  Most of the time though, it's the slow pace of WO that I love. 

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Your raise some robust issues here and provide equally tangible solutions. The problem is making a pitch without knowing what the buyer (the wurm team wants). I've never found it easy to understand the strategic direction of the team, new servers, poor risk management, and the steam release (which really made me scratch my head). I just want openness, to know where things are heading, and to help this game realize the potential it has and has always had......

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i wonder...

is there someone here that came because of an advert?

i don't mean a review in a mmo-zine or because of "Notch came from Wurm" or bashur... Did anyone come through an ad?

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While there are many good point added here I will only address the OP. As a player I do not think it is my place to tell Rolf and crew how or when to advertise. I find it presumptuous to think that is my affair. Yes we want to see Wurm survive and grow That does not mean I should meddle in other affairs. I have no doubt that the big boss knows what i going on with his game and is aware of the needs to make it grow and survive. This to me means it is his game and those are his decisions, I do not need to tell him how to do it.   

 

Just my personal take on things.

Edited by Chiqa
typos
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1 minute ago, Chiqa said:

While there are many good point added here I will only address the OP. As a player I do not think it is my place to tell Rolf and crew how or when to advertise. I find it presumptuous to think that is my affair. Yse we want to see Wurm survive and grow That does not mean I should meddle in other affairs. I have no doubt that the big boss knows what i going on with his game and is aware of the needs to make it grow and survive. This to me means it i his game and those are decisions, I do not need to tell him how to do it.   

 

Just my personal take on things.

Thank you.

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I agree a few well placed ads might help to bring in new blood.  Not sure where though, to be honest.

 

I'll tell you one thing that would help tremendously.  The tone on these forums.  I swear if I was someone who just heard of this game and came here to check it out, and all I see is doom and gloom, I'd run for the hills. 

 

When I go to a forum for a game, and the players are enthusiastic about their own game, I tend to be more disposed to trying it than if I go to one where the players are claiming the game is on it's last gasp. 

 

I'm referring to some of the other posts on this forum mainly.

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7 minutes ago, Amadee said:

I agree a few well placed ads might help to bring in new blood.  Not sure where though, to be honest.

 

I'll tell you one thing that would help tremendously.  The tone on these forums.  I swear if I was someone who just heard of this game and came here to check it out, and all I see is doom and gloom, I'd run for the hills. 

 

When I go to a forum for a game, and the players are enthusiastic about their own game, I tend to be more disposed to trying it than if I go to one where the players are claiming the game is on it's last gasp. 

 

I'm referring to some of the other posts on this forum mainly.

Exactly.  This is one of the reasons why I do my best to show my actual public support for this game, instead of just sauntering on enjoying it privately, or bashing it with every breath.

Edited by Slickshot
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