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Transmutation liquids live

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38 minutes ago, Brunwulf said:

Everyone here complaining about tar dirtwalls becoming the meta have absolutely no idea how much resources that would cost.

Also, afaik there is no "removal' feature. If you turn a clay tile into dirt it's still a transmutation thus can only be done in your own influence.

 

I dont think you realize players resource ability when it comes to PvP. Like a 60x60 war deed is about a quarter million dirt required, Which can be dug in under 3 weeks btw with multiple people ^^. A few hundred or thousand transformations to tar is childs play comparatively.

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6 minutes ago, akaedis said:

 

I dont think you realize players resource ability when it comes to PvP. Like a 60x60 war deed is about a quarter million dirt required, Which can be dug in under 3 weeks btw with multiple people ^^. A few hundred or thousand transformations to tar is childs play comparatively.

 

Gods, I know I shouldn't.

How does this even compute?

 

I've both helped with making a war deed AND have used the transformation liquid.

 

I mean the amount of ingredients you'd need just to get started... not counting the juicing (and having good skill for good QL or we're back to more fruit)

Add on the time (and alchemy skill) to make good QL transformation liquid.

THEN the priest to BLESS It all. (Meaning all the favor you're going to spend on this, plus time to cast, sac, repeat)

And it's harder to do than even what I've done... (Meaning the PvP difficulty increase)

 

How is this child's play compared to digging dirt and flat-raising walls?

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2 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Gods, I know I shouldn't.

How does this even compute?

 

I've both helped with making a war deed AND have used the transformation liquid.

 

I mean the amount of ingredients you'd need just to get started... not counting the juicing (and having good skill for good QL or we're back to more fruit)

Add on the time (and alchemy skill) to make good QL transformation liquid.

THEN the priest to BLESS It all. (Meaning all the favor you're going to spend on this, plus time to cast, sac, repeat)

And it's harder to do than even what I've done... (Meaning the PvP difficulty increase)

 

How is this child's play compared to digging dirt and flat-raising walls?

 

Childs play example:

War deed size, Corner to corner to corner. Single tile wall. 250 dirt slope high. 61x61 from corner wall tile to corner wall tile. Thats 240 tiles that need to be transformed into tar. Even if it was a 25% chance on all of them, And i mean an actual 25% chance not wurms BS %, I mean 25% of all your actions your going to perform work, Thats less than a 1000 times you have to do it. Whereas gathering a quarter million dirt takes several weeks, but transforming all this could be done in an afternoon. Even then, Lets say just for argument here, Its basically 10% to do it, Thats less than 2500 over-all actions. Thus = Childs play when building a deed. I have more trouble and time spent building the long houses, outfitting mass doors and 95ql locks then transforming tar tiles. 

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21 minutes ago, akaedis said:

 

Childs play example:

War deed size, Corner to corner to corner. Single tile wall. 250 dirt slope high. 61x61 from corner wall tile to corner wall tile. Thats 240 tiles that need to be transformed into tar. Even if it was a 25% chance on all of them, And i mean an actual 25% chance not wurms BS %, I mean 25% of all your actions your going to perform work, Thats less than a 1000 times you have to do it. Whereas gathering a quarter million dirt takes several weeks, but transforming all this could be done in an afternoon. Even then, Lets say just for argument here, Its basically 10% to do it, Thats less than 2500 over-all actions. Thus = Childs play when building a deed. I have more trouble and time spent building the long houses, outfitting mass doors and 95ql locks then transforming tar tiles. 

Hahahahaha.  What a laugh.

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1 hour ago, Slickshot said:

Interesting how the devs don't post inflammatory things about you [those you speak for as "we"] even though you're hateful and rude to them and don't listen to them.  But your excuse for acting out still stands yeah?  I mean, you've yet to be on the receiving end of the hateful mob who are constantly unsatisfied and never cease in berating you.  Walk a mile mate, and then come with excuses.  That's all I'm sayin.

 

Sounds like someone here has forgotten one of the key relationships in this game.

 

Customers are the people who pay money to play this game. Developers etc are the people who are ultimately paid by those customers. 

 

This doesn't mean that the customer's always know what's best for the game, sometimes they don't.

 

However it's pretty common in most real life areas that if customer's perceive that they are being ignored or not communicated with then eventually they stop paying money.

 

With all the threads about needing more players etc, I suspect what's needed is less attitude and a lot more effective listening.

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27 minutes ago, akaedis said:

Thats less than 2500 over-all actions. Thus = Childs play when building a deed.

 

Where are you getting 250,000 fruit from in one afternoon? :rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, Nappy said:

 

Sounds like someone here has forgotten one of the key relationships in this game.

 

Customers are the people who pay money to play this game. Developers etc are the people who are ultimately paid by those customers. 

 

This doesn't mean that the customer's always know what's best for the game, sometimes they don't.

 

However it's pretty common in most real life areas that if customer's perceive that they are being ignored or not communicated with then eventually they stop paying money.

 

With all the threads about needing more players etc, I suspect what's needed is less attitude and a lot more effective listening.

We agree on that last line.  Unfortunately trying to impart that ideal is difficult.  Make no mistake, there is nothing at all wrong with trying to explain neutrality to others for their own benefit.  Some people just don't want to play nice.

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24 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

 

Where are you getting 250,000 fruit from in one afternoon? :rolleyes:

 

Very Carefully start a tree fruit farm, And patiently wait ^^

 

Anyways, Someone mind explaining to me what im getting wrong here? Sorry, I wasn't able to partake in any tests of the content due to obvious reasons stated in other threads, aswell nor do i currently own any WO account aswell i do not wish to purchase one. 

Edited by akaedis

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1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

 

Where are you getting 250,000 fruit from in one afternoon? :rolleyes:

Fo. (ask chaos about my thorn forests)

Edited by Zekezor
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Rome already has 10k+ fruits stockpiled for this very reason, fo has blessed us. 

Edited by Egard
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52 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Who builds a war deed with just 250 slope walls?

 

 

 

Lol

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This is a feature that comes with several behind the scenes checks. It is possible to be toggled on and off by the GM team, and if these tiles are abused, they can be identified and reverted

 

Aside from that, the sheer amount of materials needed to transform a tile will be a large deterrent. I see a lot of fear around someone turning their deed into a clay or tar fortress, but ultimately the resources required would be months, if not years worth of effort, and could be knocked down in a matter of minutes, so we're keen to see how it goes and whether it actually impacts the meta of the game, or just provides a nice QoL change.

 

Needless to say, we'll keep an eye out, and if it becomes ultimately necessary, we'll look at reverting transformed tiles

 

 

I see a lot of players asking why werent they listened to. All players are listened to, and we had numerous feedback threads available for this, we're also looking at ways to improve ingame polling for more information behind results, and I'm always available to jump on teamspeak, mumble, irc or wherever if you have concerns. A lot of feedback was related to concerns of abuse, which were my concerns as well. What we did notice is those who had been on the test server realised that their initial concerns were lost, as they realised just how intensive this process is for such a limited result.

 

We're always looking for players to provide feedback, and myself, as well as my assistants and indeed the entire staff team are always willing to take it, we pay attention to every board on the forum and identify areas of concern. What we want to see more of is feedback based off actual experience and addressing the mechanics.The majority of feedback was based off fear, uncertainty and doubt, which has been understandable given the past but we need to move past this, we need to be able to address the mechanics of a feature, before fearing the impact it will have, as the feature can and as shown in the past, will be modified according to that feedback.

 

We endeavour to use the test server as much as possible, providing as much information and support as possible, so you can experience just how the new features will work and give not only bug reports based on that, but also feedback on how it feels, how it works, and other aspects.

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On that point and picking out one part of it, I would strongly advise getting more trusted individuals setup as gms on test. Currently it's very difficult, if not impossible to fully use test without the aid of a gm. After all a large function of testing is trying to find the unintended, which may require many stat adjustments and faith swaps amongst other things (and no unlimited isn't good enough for testing on either) 

Edited by Postinglels
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We're looking at better means to support players on test, but if you're relying on other players as GM's all the time, it's going to get messy.

 

What we'd like to see is improvement in automation services, instant priest with x faith, ability to spawn materials necessary for the specific tests

 

Of course other aspects will always be testable, and might require GM intervention, we want to make what we're testing at the time as easy as possible for players.

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Well, we have been relying on other players to date, and it has been messy. Any steps towards making test more usable would certainly encourage more of us to use the server. Changes like you just mentioned would go a long way

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The problem I found with the test server is the time it takes to build stuff to test, I rather spend my time playing wurm building stuff, not building on test. Something like instead of needing to go through all the actions to build a wall, you could just right click build wall, choose type and poof it is there. We don't need to keep testing the actual methods to build that wall. Same with mining, one action to mine a tile instead of 50, even with 90 stats and tools this takes too much time if you wanted to test buildings underground.

 

Another good idea I heard was to reward players with sleep bonus for spending time on the test server testing new features.

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2 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

The problem I found with the test server is the time it takes to build stuff to test, I rather spend my time playing wurm building stuff, not building on test. Something like instead of needing to go through all the actions to build a wall, you could just right click build wall, choose type and poof it is there. We don't need to keep testing the actual methods to build that wall. Same with mining, one action to mine a tile instead of 50, even with 90 stats and tools this takes too much time if you wanted to test buildings underground.

 

Another good idea I heard was to reward players with sleep bonus for spending time on the test server testing new features.

This is why I stopped testing on test after that 1.0 launch and the Massive build I did on test testing multi story drove me dam crazy. I don't mind testing but having me test features that have worked and are live is just plain agroing.

 

Test needs a instant build wand/ summon any item you need. After last reset my corncopia was removed so there went summon item's to build stuff. Test needs to work like minecraft creative mode. not half and half. I'm sure if test worked like minecraft creative mode Rolf would have a lot more testers than he has.

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45 litres of liquid at low ql could not transform one clay tile to dirt.  Hardly seems worth the effort for the resources needed to change one bridge's clay pier to dirt so it can be paved.

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soon every fotress gets giant area of slow down material planted around it :P

Edited by PWreset

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5 minutes ago, PWreset said:

soon every fotress gets giant area of slow down material planted around it :P

i doubt that.

 

On 2.3.2016 at 2:42 AM, Osiris said:

45 litres of liquid at low ql could not transform one clay tile to dirt.  Hardly seems worth the effort for the resources needed to change one bridge's clay pier to dirt so it can be paved.

 

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On 3/1/2016 at 11:11 PM, akaedis said:

 

I dont think you realize players resource ability when it comes to PvP. Like a 60x60 war deed is about a quarter million dirt required, Which can be dug in under 3 weeks btw with multiple people ^^. A few hundred or thousand transformations to tar is childs play comparatively.

 

I've personally participated in building a (roughly) 60x60 capital village with 600 slope dirtwalls and longhouses, mine entrance, etc. It took us a week with roughly 20 people.  It really isn't that hard.

 

My main concern that still wasn't addressed is the need for priests to bless these liquids. Why is this a thing? Is it fore lore or gameplay reasons? I really feel that priests are too powerful and just flat out necessary already (at least on PvP), and I really think they need to be less so. If this really is supposed to be a quality of life improvement, it shouldn't have anything to do with priests, especially considering priests reduce quality of life considerably just by being a requirement and by the god awful RNG associated with casting.

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22 minutes ago, MisterTeddy said:

I've personally participated in building a (roughly) 60x60 capital village with 600 slope dirtwalls and longhouses, mine entrance, etc. It took us a week with roughly 20 people.  It really isn't that hard.

 

 

20 people :o  lucky. We had like 5

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