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Transformation liquids

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Currently in testing are transformation liquids. When enough liquids are used on a tile it will transform into a resource tile corresponding with the liquid used.

 

These liquids are on test now, the recipies are as follows:

Juice Solid Used on Makes
0.5 kg Apple 5kg Tin Sand Clay
0.5 kg  Lemon 5kg Charcoal Grass/Mycelium Peat
0.5 kg  Cherry 10kg Iron Steppe Tar
0.5 kg  Lemon 10kg Zinc Clay Dirt
0.5 kg  Cherry 3kg Moss Peat Dirt
0.5 kg  Apple 10kg Lead Tar Dirt

To make the potion follow these easy steps

  1. Activate Juice
  2. Right click small amphora filled with solid
  3. Mix to create the transformation liquid
  4. bless the liquid to make active

Then simply pour activate the blessed liquid and right click the corresponding tile and select 'use'!

(don't just pour it, you'll all hate me if that happens!)

This does take A LOT of liquid (the amount is also dependant on quality), so expect to be at it for a bit, you can examine the tile for a rough idea (quarter of the way, halfway, almost there)

 

 

Currently mechanics as for creation and removal on PvP are being questioned. We'd like to hear further feedback in relation to this in order to be able to address concerns. Feel free to leave any constructive ideas or feedback. The test server has these items available for testing.

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Totally against this it kills Social and reason to travel and meet people  near these resource's. Lost Social in a MMO kill's it faster than beating that horse to death with a stick. Didn't you lose enough people to WU already want to see more? Yes some want it cause there lazy don't want to have to take a small ride to a near by resource cause they want to be anti social hermit's. They can do that after they travel to a resource they don't need to be social and can be stuck up and never talk to people.

 

PVP this is a nightmare for them guy's an I don't pvp at all and I can see it.

 

Don't stop making your alchemy changes just turn the new system you been working hard on to something other than resources. Turn it to making rare flowers grow, healthy grass that feel's animal's up faster, fertilizer for crop tiles, Quick grow for tree's an grass, etc....

 

You need to really Work more on the Social of your game alot more to get people to want to play. The entire reason I left console gaming for the MMO was the social part mainly it was new and new people to meet and talk to. If you keep implementing stuff like this to break what little and I do mean little social you have you will kill it off completely.

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i have never seen more social interaction on digging clay than with other activities in Wurm, i don't see how it would "kill social".

socialising is a choice, not bound to a specific activity.

 

as for the mechanics:

add a kingdom influence check, make creation only work in kingdom influence. if it must be, add the slope restriction that was already discussed.

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Lets create John,

 

John has a humble 35x35 deed that he shares with some friends and they get told that tar walls are the new great thing and they should make some. Lets ignore the arbitrary slope restrictions because lets face it they change nothing. They have mid level range NS and head out to pick 14,000 cherries sometime in the coming month when the season becomes available (if they catch it) and dig 17,000 moss. Sadly they couldn't find 14,000 cherry trees so they had to wait several more months. John and his friends finally get enough materials together and if he is lucky this number might create enough potions to cover his walls, RNG probably screwed him though and it takes longer and more materials.

 

John and co rejoice, they feel comfortable that their deed is secure. Later to their horror they discover that there really was nothing stopping those tar walls coming down, any decent raid force will have several people all levelling the wall down. Here is the kicker, John quickly realises that he has griefed his whole village and they can not level the wall back up to repair the damage. Now he has a gaping hole in the side that he fruitlessly attempts to wall off, the following day the enemy catapults the walls and walks straight back in.

Lets also consider that the enemy can just troll raid and not even intend to get in, removing a longhouse and taking the wall down just a few slope will have the same effect of screwing them over.

 

Lets imagine John had heard this might be the case and has a few spare potions to revert the tar back to dirt for repair work, how much stamina does his group have for maintaining thousands of fruit and such for this with a seasonal material. With the mentality of Chaos being that entire deeds get removed, they can still do this and John can rebuild somewhere else but how many times is he going to restock these items for something that works against him more than his enemy? Maybe John and his friends are masochists.

 

Do we really need to find ways to prevent people from greifing themselves? Make it kingdom influence only if its a big deal, but don't just remove the ability to create at all.

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I hope that you still only can create clay near water similar to where you naturally find clay now.

 

You need a way to undo what you created/destroyed  thats why it makes no sense to leave one option out.

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Having a water or height restriction pretty much defeats the point of being able to create them and introducing the mechanic to begin with.

 

The social aspect is amusing, in all my years I've never known a resource tile to be a social event place. The only person I have seen saying so is someone who also mentioned selling resource tiles in WU which to me seems rather an invested imaginary social disaster scenario theory designed to maintain the profit.

 

Fighting over resources? Ive never seen this nor can I see it happening, people will find resources elsewhere. The only thing I can see happening if you can remove and not replace is further snowballing from stronger kingdoms preventing the growth of smaller kingdoms. Some people seem to enjoy wiping out competition to destroy any chance of pvp, others prefer to actually have enemy around to fight.

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7 hours ago, SmeJack said:

The social aspect is amusing, in all my years I've never known a resource tile to be a social event place. The only person I have seen saying so is someone who also mentioned selling resource tiles in WU which to me seems rather an invested imaginary social disaster scenario theory designed to maintain the profit.

 

Yes next time just say my name. 

Yes traveling to a resource allows you to meet people you would have never meet in a area. I've meet many people at resources and talked while standing there clicking dig to pass the time of the boring timer and dig cycle. If this would have been able to be made at my deed and never had to travel I would have never meet them nice people and made friend's with them and been a lonely hermit on a deed.

 

Example 8 people live in a area but not close enough to be in each other's local. The resource spot is in between the 8 peoples deed's. They all go there cause it is the closest resource of that type and while there they meet talk socialize make friends etc... If they all could make  resource tiles on there deed's then they all have no reason to go to the resource spot and just stay on there deed cause of less travel. If they don't have to travel they don't meet when they don't meet they become hermit's in there deed's. Why do people travel from all over on a map to the implong? cause it is the only place it is at. What happens there? They socialize, make new friend's. have the implong on everyone's deed what happens? No one travel's to it no socialize etc...

 

Now the mention of selling resource tiles in WU yes I said it "say my name" This is true not on my server but there are a few server's being run where they do this to make money. I've been told this by other's who joined my server who played on these server's. So your Social disaster theory you are claiming is false cause it is no theory it is happening on several WU server's.

 

So many people against a Idea and there's talk of it still trying to be put in sound's insane.

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2 hours ago, Arkonick said:

...

Example 8 people live in a area but not close enough to be in each other's local. The resource spot is in between the 8 peoples deed's. They all go there cause it is the closest resource of that type and while there they meet talk socialize make friends etc...

...

I could say the same about pretty much everything systemic Wurm has to offer, be it specific dens of creatures, a specific type of trees, a unique to hunt or even a mission.

Neither of those prevent me from socialising and a clay spot (or other systemic feature) on the neighbors deed won't change that.

 

If some WU server can sell the tiles for money it only indicates to me that this is a wanted feature.

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Chaos does not need this in any form. Resources being unavailable at mountain deeds/inland deeds/coastal deeds is all part of the appeal of chaos. Some strategic deeds will be in places with no resources readily available making building on deed harder to do as you will have to travel to get clay for the construction. Travel on chaos means dealing with valerie creatures and rival pmk kingdoms. There is always risk involved in getting attacked and loosing the goods you were moving.

Edited by JakeRivers
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This feature, not saying future features the dev team come up with instead of fixing the crippling lag and solving more important bugs, is not needed on Chaos at all, removal or addition.

 

I know you like to believe that exclusion of one feature will be a slippery slope to the exclusion of many, but this particular feature is really unnecessary in PvP and will quite possibly do more harm than good.  

 

Instead of forcing this upon PvP only to create more problems than it will solve, especially with all the bugs that will come because you by nature refuse to test updates thoroughly, and further make pvp servers less fun because of new bugs and lag, can you just hear the truth instead of ignoring it?

Edited by madnezz
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I see a lot of "not on PvP" But could we please clarify which server you play on? It's seeming that Epic PvP has different ideas to Chaos PvP, and it would be great to seperate that.

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16 hours ago, Arkonick said:

So many people against a Idea and there's talk of it still trying to be put in sound's insane.

 

Weighing all the feedback, not just the ones I'd like to see, I've seen more people for this (on Freedom) than against. The majority against seem to be from Chaos, with a smattering that usually play both Epic and Chaos.

 

Oh, and this can be disabled on WU servers I believe?

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As my sign says, I play chaos and will edit my post to reflect this.

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On ‎26‎.‎02‎.‎2016 at 11:02 PM, KaiH said:

i have never seen more social interaction on digging clay than with other activities in Wurm, i don't see how it would "kill social".

socialising is a choice, not bound to a specific activity.

 

as for the mechanics:

add a kingdom influence check, make creation only work in kingdom influence. if it must be, add the slope restriction that was already discussed.

Heh.. of course digging clay isn't a social activity. Most of the activities aren't. But imagine now a situation, where John needs some clay, it is 70 tiles away, he takes cart and drives out. On the way he meets Jane, who is on the way to the local market, because she needs a new sword. They exchange few words, while they see each other in local. Soon after Jane leaves local, John meets local fisherman named Joe, who comes from fishing, again they exchange few words etc..
 

Now imagine similar situation, where john could make clay to his own deed. Or Joe could make a pond for fishing on his own deed. Or... devs would give free swords to everyone. :) Neither of those encounters would've been happened. Yes, I am exaggerating here, but I hope you all understand, that it is the "need for something", which is motivating us to move around. Whether it is clay, fish, certain type of ore, you name it.. When everything "grows" in 5 tile radius, it WOULD affect social interaction a lot, despite neither of activities could be categorized as social.

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exactly. it doesn't need anything beyond the choice to communicate.

random encounters for whichever reason result in communication if both partys choose to communicate, usually because someone shows up in the local tab.

and some dont want to socialise at all, are we here to force them to do like others want/do?

 

but all of this is already quite off topic. the topic is mechanics

On 26.2.2016 at 9:07 PM, Retrograde said:

Currently mechanics as for creation and removal on PvP are being questioned. We'd like to hear further feedback in relation to this in order to be able to address concerns. Feel free to leave any constructive ideas or feedback. The test server has these items available for testing.

 

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A suggested idea is Removal only while in kingdom influence, how would that go?

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23 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

A suggested idea is Removal only while in kingdom influence, how would that go?

 

That's terrible and defeats the purpose, it's not giving pvp the full thing.  Just give Epic full feature and see how it goes.  Chaos can get whatever they want since they're so against it

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Oh the drama of it all.

 

Btw I'm having an event down at the local clay spot, come on down....I don't think I've ever seen someone else at the same clay spot whenever I've been there. As for seeing  it as dumbing down wurm or whatever, it's a minor disturbance. It  is quality of life as they call it in mmo's. For someone that lives on the top of a mountain 15 mins ride in all directions..I can't wait!

 

Wurm really does need some quality of life changes. The dev team is moving in the right direction imo.

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

A suggested idea is Removal only while in kingdom influence, how would that go?

Why?  What is the purpose?  Why do you need to force it?  Just leave it off Chaos. 

 

Can you give an example of why this would be useful and fun on Chaos?  

 

I can think of one time where we built a deed on clay and we had to move the deed to a better spot.  Having transmutation would not have helped because there were 100s of tiles of clay and it would be cost & action prohibitive.  In the end the game made more money because we disbanded and moved the deed to a better/larger area.  We didn't whine or ask for fundamental changes to the way the game works.

Edited by madnezz
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If you located your deed over peat/tar/clay purely because it was a strategic location I would say it was a choice you made and deal with it.

 

We built a war deed with a tar pit that interfered with one corner of the wall, we built around it and dealt with the problem. 

 

I do not think anyone on Chaos should be allowed to modify resources, whether its adding them or removing them, its part of the PvP environment on the map.

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The nature of this thread is to gain feedback upon the mechanics. Complaints such as "pvp doesnt want this" and "fix other bugs" or "this kills the game" are not constructive feedback and will be hidden.

 

We want to hear about the mechanics of the suggested feature, and concerns around how they would work in specirfic situations or scenarios. Fear based feedback is not condusive, if you have concerns, jump on test and try the feature out, if you simply think it does imbalance pvp, simply state how and why.

 

The desire of this thread is to make sure that any potential imbalances and abuses can be recognised prior to its implementation. From there, we can take preventative steps, or limit its release.

 

Keep it constructive, and based on mechanics and we'll go just fine.

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I thought my post was constructive feedback on why the resource mechanics on chaos should not be changed.

 

This is a beautiful feature on PvE where players often choose a deed location purely because of scenic locations and not strategic ones. Where it allows players to remove existing resources if they are in the way of construction on there deed or add ones if none are to be found in the area.

 

On PvP such as chaos people must deal with the logistics of importing resources (at times with great risk to logistics) to a strategic deed or building around them. This is part of the appeal of playing on a chaotic server. It is nerve wracking at times driving a slow wagon through valeri infested forests, or skirting around enemy lands to get supplies moved in.

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After considerable review and feedback, it is pretty clear this isn't something wanted on Chaos.

 

As loathe as I am to see features denied to PvP due to the posibility of being abused, I understand the desire to keep things as stable as possible. Should the mechanics or function of these liquids change it may be possible to introduce them on chaos in a form, but for the forseable future, they will remain Freedom/Epic only.

 

As you all know by now, they have gone live on these servers as of today, so we'll be closely monitoring them and any feedback we get, they can be easily reverted or disdabled if abused, though the amount of work required should make it clear that it's not worth the time.

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My only concern about it, is the removal or 'reversion of old land'. For a new player (PvE servers), it's pretty hard to ever find an area that was never touched before. Usually everywhere has already been terraformed to some degree, and often times that is a bonus for a player wishing to re-deed land. However - perhaps 1 year down the line, there will be lots of unwanted tar pits and claypits scattered around the map in positions that the new player would rather not have there and they just block their plans for an ideal deed design.

 

Currently the 'removal' seems way beyond the capabilities of any new or even mid-range player. This won't be an issue for the near future, but 1 year down the line, it could be really awkward for all new players. Any plans on 'reversion' of these tiles if unused for a period of time? Or when a deed disbands?

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