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Chaos - Lets start again

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7 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I have been in contact with almost all Chaos kingdoms so far, and I am taking note of what the general consensus is. This thread is extremely handy, and has listed much of what I have talked about with each kingdom.

 

As for these actual changes coming in, some are feasible within a short term, but others are slightly longer term, a map reset for example is not something we'd do just to "mix things up". We're aware that there are numerous changes that need to be made and balances that need to come in prior to approaching anythijng of the sort.

 

I haven't commented on this as I'm curious to see what feedback players have, to say without the presence of official word but I feel you all should know I'm keeping a very close eye on this, and will be discussing many changes with the development team over the next few weeks

 

First off all,

 

Thank you for taking your time to actually acknowledge us  It means a lot as now at least we know we are being heard.

 

On the other hand...  I do have a few questions.

 

If the server won't be reset but mechanics will be changed, How will you test them if a kingdom owns the entire map?  Does that mean they will get to test it by themselves?  or, Will every kingdom get disbanded during testing in order to have neutrality?

 

Can we have a real Q&A with the devs instead of having another player pick and choose?  What I mean by this is to have them do a live chat in which Chaos players only ask questions in an organized manner and are answered on the spot.  This way, we can have a constructive conversation and ideas can be thrown back and forth between the devs and the players.

 

When you say you are aware of changes that must happen before server reset.  Can you be more specific to what those are?  We have had a lot of bad experience when Devs "Are aware of problems and balances needed", but then push an update that fixes absolutely nothing regarding the player base main concerns.

 

You said you will "discussing many changes with the development team over the next few weeks".  So you mean to tell us that you expect the Chaos player base to continue to pay a premium while we wait for you to "discuss many changes with the development team over the next few weeks".  I think it's more acceptable to hear that there will be testing and implementations done to the server within a few weeks.  But i honestly believe that making player base wait a few weeks just for you to bring it up to the devs is not only unfair but also an outright insult to us.  

 

I understand you are the PR officer, however, there HAS to be some interaction with between the devs and us the players in order to keep us paying for this game.  Since WO, we the players in WU have felt abandoned by the staff.  WO was supposed to add more devs and fix more things in WU with the influx of more money but this has not been the case.  The excuse before was that there was not enough money to hire more devs and that we only had volunteer devs.  What's the reasoning now for this process to take so long?

 

 

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7 hours ago, hemrzz said:

 

Retrograde you will not be able to implement changes without a map reset.. its not even worth doing in that case.... the damage has already been done.

 

if you are not considering a map reset then there is no point in changing those mechanics that have already been heavily used by people... 

 

 

 

Also

 

- Seriously reconsider the merging of chaos and epic to have much larger population on one PVP server

- Epic people should have some sort of skill conversion so years of effort is not lost

- Go for a smaller server size instead of a larger one. The smaller the server the more intense the concentration of people which in turn leads to more pvp. You can always add another server later. With the number of people currently pvping in wurm I would go 1024 preferably, maximum 2048.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Puertorro said:

there HAS to be some interaction with between the devs and us the players in order to keep us paying for this game.  Since WO, we the players in WU have felt abandoned by the staff.  WO was supposed to add more devs and fix more things in WU with the influx of more money but this has not been the case.  The excuse before was that there was not enough money to hire more devs and that we only had volunteer devs.  What's the reasoning now for this process to take so long?

Puertorro, you are no longer a part of any PvP kingdom on Chaos, so I can understand why you might thing that there's no interaction going on, but you're waving your arms and screaming when you don't actually know what you're talking about since you're not playing.
Retrograde personally has joined the Teamspeak server of most of the active PvP kingdoms, from my understanding - including the Epic PvP kingdoms. The ones he missed he told to contact him and he would arrange a meet-up.
Although this thread wasn't acknowledged until just now, it is ignorant to say that we are being "abandoned by the staff" at this point in time, as Retrograde was only recently hired as the PR Officer.

He is already kicking things into gear and trying to push what the players would like to see forward to the developers.
You practically do not play, so maybe consider not bashing one of the more helpful staff members.

I for one am glad we at least had a staff member reply to the thread. I didn't hear what I would like to hear, especially concerning a map reset which most seemed on board with, but at least we have an actual staff post in the thread. 

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7 minutes ago, Nappy said:

 

Also

 

- Seriously reconsider the merging of chaos and epic to have much larger population on one PVP server

- Epic people should have some sort of skill conversion so years of effort is not lost

- Go for a smaller server size instead of a larger one. The smaller the server the more intense the concentration of people which in turn leads to more pvp. You can always add another server later. With the number of people currently pvping in wurm I would go 1024 preferably, maximum 2048.

 

 

 

Another server!!!!  Brilliant.  You wont have to touch Chaos to do testing if you just have a blank server.  Let people in and start blasting us with the proposed changes.  You can even use the Challenge servers used for this since their are sitting idle.

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4 minutes ago, Stik said:

Puertorro, you are no longer a part of any PvP kingdom on Chaos, so I can understand why you might thing that there's no interaction going on, but you're waving your arms and screaming when you don't actually know what you're talking about since you're not playing.
Retrograde personally has joined the Teamspeak server of most of the active PvP kingdoms, from my understanding - including the Epic PvP kingdoms. The ones he missed he told to contact him and he would arrange a meet-up.
Although this thread wasn't acknowledged until just now, it is ignorant to say that we are being "abandoned by the staff" at this point in time, as Retrograde was only recently hired as the PR Officer.

He is already kicking things into gear and trying to push what the players would like to see forward to the developers.
You practically do not play, so maybe consider not bashing one of the more helpful staff members.

I for one am glad we at least had a staff member reply to the thread. I didn't hear what I would like to hear, especially concerning a map reset which most seemed on board with, but at least we have an actual staff post in the thread. 

 

And you didnt read my post well.  

 

I understand you are the PR officer, however, there HAS to be some interaction with between the devs and us the players in order to keep us paying for this game.

 

Also, Retrograde has been PRO for a LONG TIME!!!!  So please, do some research before arguing out of ignorance.

 

P.S.  You are not part of any PVP kingdom either.  I'm still on Chaos, you live on a freedom server and cross over from time to time.  You are not HotS, you are actually Horde of the Freedomers.

 

 

Edited by Puertorro

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Retrograde is your point of interaction from now on, apart from the rare occurrence of a Q&A session in IRC with Rolf that is handled properly to address concerns with the game. The players interacting with Rolf directly hasn't ever ended well in all the long years of Wurm's development.

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Just now, Fooligun said:

Retrograde is your point of interaction from now on, apart from the rare occurrence of a Q&A session in IRC with Rolf that is handled properly to address concerns with the game. The players interacting with Rolf directly hasn't ever ended well in all the long years of Wurm's development.

 

Yes,

 

That's why I said a live chat Q&A instead of a forum one.  It is known retrograde is the PRO and point of contact for all players since I spoke to Rolf over 2 years ago and asked him together with other players to allow BL PMK's.  Since then all communications shifted directly to retrograde.

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13 minutes ago, Puertorro said:

 

Another server!!!!  Brilliant.  You wont have to touch Chaos to do testing if you just have a blank server.  Let people in and start blasting us with the proposed changes.  You can even use the Challenge servers used for this since their are sitting idle.

 

No, you misread my comment. It's not ANOTHER server, it's just having ONE PVP server. Population is both too low and too spread out, moving to one smaller server fixes both problems potentially.

 

It would be interesting to get an accurate count of the number of people who pvp in wurm, personally my guess is between 50 - 100 possibly going as high as 200 if you include all WU servers too.

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Just now, Nappy said:

 

No, you misread my comment. It's not ANOTHER server, it's just having ONE PVP server. Population is both too low and too spread out, moving to one smaller server fixes both problems potentially.

 

It would be interesting to get an accurate count of the number of people who pvp in wurm, personally my guess is between 50 - 100 possibly going as high as 200 if you include all WU servers too.

 

No I got you.  I was just giving another way to "test out" changes they would want to implement without having to reset Chaos.  We DO NOT need another permanent server.  But if in the end they are going to wipe Chaos, they can make a "new" Chaos in which players can play and start out while the new mechanics come out and to give the current Chaos players the opportunity to pulling their goods out of the old one.

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8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I have been in contact with almost all Chaos kingdoms so far, and I am taking note of what the general consensus is. This thread is extremely handy, and has listed much of what I have talked about with each kingdom.

 

As for these actual changes coming in, some are feasible within a short term, but others are slightly longer term, a map reset for example is not something we'd do just to "mix things up". We're aware that there are numerous changes that need to be made and balances that need to come in prior to approaching anythijng of the sort.

 

I haven't commented on this as I'm curious to see what feedback players have, to say without the presence of official word but I feel you all should know I'm keeping a very close eye on this, and will be discussing many changes with the development team over the next few weeks

Shame you didnt do that for the merge. Ya know. The suggestion that had majority positive feedback (is this proper usage of the word) and actually may have done something useful to fix pvp in WO?

 

 

we havent given up. The merge WILL happen.

Edited by Josh
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40 minutes ago, Puertorro said:

 

No I got you.  I was just giving another way to "test out" changes they would want to implement without having to reset Chaos.  We DO NOT need another permanent server.  But if in the end they are going to wipe Chaos, they can make a "new" Chaos in which players can play and start out while the new mechanics come out and to give the current Chaos players the opportunity to pulling their goods out of the old one.

 

My apology. I misunderstood your comment.

 

Agreed. Stand-up a second server, get buy-in and then collapse the remaining.

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Come on dev's the pvp community needs some attention, lets get this things fixed and a fresh map for it all to take effect on. Damage is done cant be reverted with simple fix's a new map is needed. 

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2 hours ago, Egard said:

Come on dev's the pvp community needs some attention, lets get this things fixed and a fresh map for it all to take effect on. Damage is done cant be reverted with simple fix's a new map is needed. 

 

How will a new map fix anything?  MR has the high level accounts, gear, and desire to dominate any map current or new.  Nothing will change with a new map.

 

Didn't you guys abandon your deeds and drop the crown into the ocean on your way out of Chaos?  I understand how someone who gave up everything would want a fresh start, but that's not fair to the people who have invested a lot of time, hard work, and money in their deeds and still want the current map.

Edited by Galatyn

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1 hour ago, Galatyn said:

 

How will a new map fix anything?  MR has the high level accounts, gear, and desire to dominate any map current or new.  Nothing will change with a new map.

 

Didn't you guys abandon your deeds and drop the crown into the ocean on your way out of Chaos?  I understand how someone who gave up everything would want a fresh start, but that's not fair to the people who have invested a lot of time, hard work, and money in their deeds and still want the current map.

You must not be able to see that even mr wants this change

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From looking back through the posts, the only original MR that  I can see is where Redd wants a new map.  Jakerivers said no to map reset and Jukimo said not right now.  Did I miss another?  If not, 1 original MR member doesn't represent all of them, so it's not accurate to say "even mr wants this change" because you are implying all or a majority.

 

I still don't see how a map reset will solve anything.  Several previous posts acknowledge that MR will retain dominance.  It seems like people who have lost everything are just wanting everyone else to suffer and lose everything.

Edited by Galatyn
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Maybe the most feasible change that can be made at this time is for all non-MR players who want to PvP put aside their differences and join JK.   Or, do the right thing and join MR, the best kingdom on any map.

 

All we only need are two kingdoms for pvp.  Many video games pit only two teams against each other.

Edited by Galatyn

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What you fail to see Galatyn is that if most of these changes suggested happen, it will prevent a lot of what happen with this chaos. I understand you just recently joined MR and might not be aware of how they got to how they are at the moment, but I can guarantee you that if these changes are implemented with a new map MR will not dominate the same it at the moment. No doubt they will be strong, they have large numbers but they will not be able to snowball like they did on the current map. You would be a fool as well to think MR has all the high end accounts. Also MR has one thing left to do on the server and its drain kyara thats why Jukimo said no. This whole suggestion as well is not targeted at MR's current dominance but rather fixing crucial issues that have been present for years and enabled a lot of snowballing. So far this thread has been pretty good with leaving the KvK and looking at the improving pvp as whole so lets keep it that way. Again you just joined MR you must be eager to show them you're a big guy and can pvp on the forums but lets keep the KvK away, if we wanted to make this KvK we could do what MR has done the last two years and massive -1 against suggest by any other kingdom, but here you see people from every kingdom agreeing with each other and acknowledging issues. 

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I know MR does not have all the high end accounts.  You have Warrior and Banzai has Legionnaire and there are many other great accounts out there.  You may be right if all the changes are implemented along with a new map, then MR may not dominate.  However, I only addressed what some are saying about just a map change.  I don't see how just changing the map will change anything.  

 

I'm not trying to be a "big guy".  I don't pay any deed upkeep so it doesn't matter to me, personally, if there is a map reset.  However, I can see how it would affect others who do pay for upkeep, or invest their time and effort into their deeds and want to keep the current map.  I don't think it's fair that people who have lost everything are trying to make everyone else lose everything.

 

Why exactly did your group abandon deeds and leave Chaos?  I've seen Pools Closed and Gotem City recently and they were really nice deeds.  It's obvious alot of hard work and time went into them.  Is it related to the recent alleged MR hota statue thefts?

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The "xxx enters your kingdom" is so annoying. It literally kills roaming out.

Also, delayed twitter alarms would be good so that people with bigger kingdoms need to have an active population in all their deeds rather than twitter/IRC notifications.

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Twitter would have to be fully removed from pvp servers to have a meaningful effect. A delay sure on homeservers but not elevation or chaos. As it stands I still have deeds that arn't being attacked or drained due to the fear of getting ganked from freedom and just the sheer monotony of raiding abandoned and cleared out deeds

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2 hours ago, Galatyn said:

 

 

Why exactly did your group abandon deeds and leave Chaos?  I've seen Pools Closed and Gotem City recently and they were really nice deeds.  It's obvious alot of hard work and time went into them.  Is it related to the recent alleged MR hota statue thefts?

 

Boredom and disgust with the many detrimental changes to game mechanics that have been made over the last 2 -3 years. Well at least on my part. I have no idea about any alleged hota statue thefts so cant answer that one

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11 hours ago, Galatyn said:

Why exactly did your group abandon deeds and leave Chaos?  I've seen Pools Closed and Gotem City recently and they were really nice deeds.  It's obvious alot of hard work and time went into them.  Is it related to the recent alleged MR hota statue thefts?

Changes over time have built up making the game no longer fun on Chaos. I have been playing for around 9 years now and this game is nowhere near as fun as it was in the past. Chat with any veteran player and they all say the same thing about how fun the old times were compared to now. These changes will bring it back to be more in line with the past. Just look at Chaos' premium numbers right now. When we left we took 40 premium subscriptions away, I don't want to see Wurm die at all as I used to love the game. But the issue is some people aren't interested in pve, but those people can't move back to a pvp server right now as it is no longer fun. This makes it hard for us, we cannot play the game we used to love anymore. I would say the fact we left behind the deeds we had worked so hard on speaks how it wasn't just us throwing a fit and leaving, we thought about it and decided to stop doing something that became more of a chore than a game.

 

The biggest thing I love about Wurm is the community aspect, the game is much more fun as a group. It why I am drawn to the PVP servers. However when one person leaves, it acts like the snowball mechanics right now - one person leaves, another one leaves and another one etc. The only way you will stop the chain is to show the people who are leaving that change will be done and for the better. There is no way people are going to just stick around hoping for it magically change and you can see from Want to sell that people are moving on. Even though some people may not like the people in other kingdoms so much, you should be worried about this as what does that mean for the future of the pvp servers if there isn't anyone around?

 

 

Edited by bloodmaster
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each day more and more accounts are being sold because nothing mentioned in this thread the dev's even want to consider, the pvp player base that was going down has started to diminishing now, notice most account sale threads are people that played for years on chaos. Its well known freedom is a large part of the economy of wurm and revenue however this lack of attention to the rest of player base is only hurting more and more by the day. I personally don't expect immediate change I think most of the pvp player base that wants these changes do either, but rather some acknowledgement of the issue and something to look forward to with regards to them being fixed. 

Edited by Egard
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Being a Freedomer, I even see that change needs to be made. While I don't think all of these people leaving would ultimately kill Wurm entirely, it's going to hurt Wurm.... a lot.

 

I have a lot of friends on Chaos. I feel for you guys at the moment.

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Make the new server all gravel, mountains, and mostly sand.

 

No dirt allowed to be transported in, and very, very few water spots.

 

Heck throw in some lava for giggles.

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