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Chaos - Lets start again

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11 minutes ago, Stik said:

The state of chaos is toxic right now, go look at the influence map Demondan drew up. A whole kingdom up and abandoned recently. MR have no reason to own half their deeds anymore since there's only JK now.

Hopefully Rolf can have a clear thought without money in mind.

 

The operation of the game is still a business and it is insane to expect that to be laid to the wayside. WU took care of any concern of legacy since the game will function essentially forever. Arguably it answered most complaints, even if it wasn't a good answer for the community.

 

Without real metrics, any number of conclusions could be drawn that don't require validation by the playerbase or even their input at all.

Edited by Zerocool

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yes to everything but there needs even more to be involved

 

purpose of the server, an identity

a look into the top tier deed meta (multiple sloped dirt walls / rock pits / mountain deeds/ etc)

raiding in general

 

there is no point in resetting the map when you have other mechanics in the game that may end up getting changed, but someone already took advantage of it and now has a super powerful fortress. We see this, time and time again.

 

(also this topic is hilarious, considering a lot in the OP was suggested in the past which was heavily disagreed on. I wonder what changed?:lol:)

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Just to clarify I am fine with a reset. In fact, I'm indifferent, but friends want it to happen so I'm fine with it. It is just easier at the moment from a business standpoint to say "Wow, look at all these players not getting along. I guess I could always close the server and force them into the rest of the game. I can cut server expenses AND refocus player behavior!" This should scare anyone who genuinely cares about the experience on Chaos. There is going to come a point where it is easier to justify cutting expenses over overhauling and players have to demonstrate a willingness to make up the difference.

Edited by Zerocool

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32 minutes ago, MetalDragon said:

(also this topic is hilarious, considering a lot in the OP was suggested in the past which was heavily disagreed on. I wonder what changed?:lol:)

 

Had to slip that in didn't you. Please keep your needless childish trolling to yourself.

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What is the main thrust (pun intended) of the PvP game?

 

Is it KvK  or individual PvP or something else? 

 

If the former then Kingdom influence needs to be taken to the next level if PvP then it needs dialing back down so its about as background as it gets.

 

Assuming a KvK scenario. Start with the assumption that influence matters. This means it shouldn't be easy to spam out fresh influence and spread across the whole map, Instead kingdoms should be somewhat more compact.

 

I felt that the principle of building within existing influence to increase it was a good idea but the tower chaining was incredibly bad. So..... influence needs to be a bit complicated unfortunately.

 

The capital is the centre of the kingdoms influence and creates a circular area of influence around it, literally. Each influence generating entity, tower, or town increases that radius. (Slight aside here, perhaps we need other interesting influence generators?), Other towns create their own smaller radius which cannot grow, its fixed but has a special use. Towers do not create a fresh radius instead just feeding the kingdom one. This keeps a kingdom much more focused and tighter than we've seen before.

 

Tower capturing I think would go and we'd be back to tower bashing again which would reduce the kingdoms influence and here is the tricky bit, once a tower is outside of the kingdom influence it can't contribute until the influence overlaps it again, maybe its weaker, I'm not sure but it should be considered a loss for sure. As a town generates its own influence circle it has more of a grace period for when things shrink but once its influence no longer overlaps that of the capitals it has twenty four hours to right the situation or it is ejected from the kingdom.  It can still rejoin once influence expands again but it would be a pain for kingdom players to come protect it if the village guards don't recognise them.

 

This would mean that various tactical activities and objectives can be set by attackers to make attacks on a kingdom more (or less) successful. It also means that two kingdoms which are close enough would end up in an influence battle so maybe tower captures would be relevant in that situation.

 

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3 hours ago, Redd said:

So I figured I'd write up a suggestion, hitting on points on Chaos which I dislike, and stuff I would like to see changed. Its boring being the winners on Chaos, and I think the following suggestions will stop another kingdom/community taking total domination of a server again.

 

Chaos Map Reset

 

Lets be honest - We need it. There are so many choke points, so many prebuilt places, so many ultra defended settlements. These are only a few examples of why the map needs restarting, but they all certainly stagnate PvP. I would love a map with multiple islands, rivers, fjords, with a central island for the HotA (IDK). PLEASE FOR MAGRANONS SAKE DO NOT LET ROLF DO THE MAP. Lets have some player submissions, a vote taken and the most popular is done!

 

Village teleporting/karmaing

 

Village karmaing is ridiculous. Ive never been a fan of it, but I still used it. It allows enemies to instantly, safely, teleport to a village with very little expence (1s). Usually on raid when you could not do this, exits were usually walled off, and it made enemies have to fight to defend. You should only be able to teleport to a deed if you have been a member for 24 hours or alternatively if no enemies are in local of your destination (though I suspect this may be hard to code).

 

Tower capping, and influence blocker deeds

 

This is a mechanic used by all kingdom on Chaos. Dropping a s5 deed in an area will not allow capping of towers for (correct me if im wrong) 150 tiles in each direction of your village boarder. This can lock down huge areas for a very low cost. I suggest either tower capping is removed, or that villages only stop tower capping for the towers on deed.

 

Perhaps remove tower capping and how towers can be planted currently and revert back to the old system where towers need to be chained from existing influence (though some sort of work around needs to be done for newly fledging PMKS, and islands?)

 

Artifacts

 

Artifacts seriously need looking at. They either need to be reviewed carefully, or removed entirely from the game. At the current moment in time, they are not worth using in PvP, and require a huge amount of maintenance to keep them.

 

Twitter

 

I miss the old times where you could raid a deed without being scared of the second you stepped a toe on the deed. Please remove twitter as it stagnates PvP.

 

Information ministor (Your informers reley information...) rubbish

 

Please remove this! Its yet another way which stagnates PvP! Smaller, roaming groups cannot operate now.

 

Add back mine doors not opening in enemy local off deed!

 

I feel as if roaming, and small group skirmishes have deminished since the removal of mine doors being used as safe spots on the map for smaller groups. This encouraged people off of deed more often, thus creating more PvP.

 

WL/BL bashing and their influence range

 

The WL/BL should remain bashable, but i recon their influence of no buildings/deed/whatever should be increased by a lot. Perhaps 400-600 tiles so that they cannot be locked down by anyone. That being said though, the code needs a revamp. With less towers on the server I recon the new WL shouldnt spawn within 500-1000 tiles of a kingdom influence.

 

HotA

 

Make the HotA on an island where no deeds, walls, mines or anything can be planted! This will stop stagnation of the HotA and make it fair to all to access. HotA should be a PvP creation zone.

 

Non-premium mayors

 

Please, for heavens sake, allow mayor non-premium players to be able to spawn at their own deed! Its so annoying!

 

PMK Village Cap

 

There should be some sort of cap on the amount of deeds a PMK can place. Perhaps 5 villages can be placed every 1% of influence the kingdom has (IDK something ballanced). This should stop war deed spam.

 

Epic loot code

 

There is nothing more annoying than when over powering the enemy completely in a skirmish and they managed to nab the corpse of your mate who is the only one on your team who dies. Of course sods law kicks in and their res stone works. Please make it so corpses can only be picked up when an enemy isnt anywhere near it!

 

Merchant taunting

 

Please add merchant taunting to Chaos. I feel like everyone finds it annoying that people use them as impenetrable loot storage holders.

 

Logged off alts in boats for speed

 

This is a nasty little trick used so that your sailboat is full speed without the risk of your alts being at the discretion of arrows and other pointy objects. Characters logged on a boat should increase the speed, once they are logged off they should not add to the total spead of the boat.

 

These are my suggestions anyway. A map restart would be required for this to happen of course. Feel free to tear this suggestion apart :P

 

PLEASE do not talk about an epic-freedom merge. That is not the aim of this discussion. Feel free to make another thread to talk about this. Any posts made about this will be reported.

 

 

MR players should get a cool title :D Order of Chaos and name the map as a new thing.

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Now all epic people who dont play chaos should do the same as chaos did to elevation reset, lets see how much u folks like it 

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1 minute ago, LorenaMontana said:

Now all epic people who dont play chaos should do the same as chaos did to elevation reset, lets see how much u folks like it 

I am not familiar, what happened during the Elevation reset?

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2 hours ago, Redd said:

 

Had to slip that in didn't you. Please keep your needless childish trolling to yourself.

Hey man, I'm with you on this one but I'm just saying it's a mad coincidence that you managed to remove a good portion of your competition by not voting for these changes sooner. I mean as long as we're all on the same sort of 'fun factor' page now, no matter how long it took, I guess that's all that matters. Fun for all the server no?

I'm all for these changes, no trolling, in fact I supported a lot of these changes in the past!

Edited by MetalDragon
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I'll really regret selling if this is put through, I can GUARENTEE you that this is a step for the better of the pvp community and server, and many people will play because it's not "just a reset" it's a large chunk of actual fixes with a reset just being making a clean slate for implementing them.

+1

 

If absolutely nothing is chosen to be done, for christs sake remove this :

 

Information ministor (Your informers reley information...) rubbish

 

Please remove this! Its yet another way which stagnates PvP! Smaller, roaming groups cannot operate now.

 

this was added after years of it not being in the game, and pretty much wiped away small roaming it's such a meta it's dumb.

 

Imagine playing CS:GO and there was an option to hold a mirror around every corner and a pistol in your other hand, obviously there is gonna be a group that argues against everything ever, saying stuff maybe like "you sacrifice having a primary weapon hurhurrr" but this OBVIOUSLY isn't a good mechanic and if you don't understand that just from the second you hear of it then you honestly never will, REMOVE IT PLEASE.

Edited by Cornchips
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+1 to all. Well thought out Redd. ;) 

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PVPers are bored, give them a new map and let them enjoy PVP once again. 

 

We need this soon, reset fast so we can have fun this summer. 

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+1 to all except mine doors - more PvP =/= better PvP

 

I'd really hate to go back to the days of chasing someone to their mine door where lots of general nonsense occurs

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this is a better suggestion for improved PvP than Epic, Challenge and WU put together

+1

 

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Game needs a pvp wide reset.

+1 to all of this on chaos as well as epic 

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3 hours ago, Gaul said:

PVPers who gave up early are bored.

ftfy

 

Those who have put in effort to get to where we are still have goals that we want to accomplish. Deal with it.

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Agree almost 100%. Only thing I'm not sure on is this:

 

Quote

Epic loot code

 

There is nothing more annoying than when over powering the enemy completely in a skirmish and they managed to nab the corpse of your mate who is the only one on your team who dies. Of course sods law kicks in and their res stone works. Please make it so corpses can only be picked up when an enemy isnt anywhere near it!

 

I understand the frustration but at the same time I'm kinda glad that even if a kingdom gets wiped if they get lucky they can save a bit of the gear, especially on Chaos where lots of ppl wear drake it kind of provides an advantage for the smaller kingdoms. If a whole kingdom gets wiped especially if they are the 'underdog' it could put them out of action for a very long time and I think it's better for the game if they can get back into the fight sooner rather than later.

 

Instead I could get behind making the chance for a res stone to work lower the more you are carrying, so if you are carrying like 6 sets of drake armor you have almost no chance for it to work but if you carry your armor and one friends stuff the chance should be somewhat normal. I agree it's annoying when you have 1-2 good corpse ninja's rescue almost everything (example: when we wiped MR at Tyre years ago and got literally _zero_ loot) but at the same time if we got all of the loot it would mean zero PvP for at least a month while the other kingdom restocked everything.

 

 

 

I really like the idea of tower chaining being implemented again, I feel that tower capturing is far too cheap and easy. I'd also personally like to see the decay of guard towers turned up significantly too because it's no fun wandering around in enemy territory spending 90% of the time killing tower guards.

 

Don't put the HoTA near a mountain pls. I like the idea of putting it in a huge desert / steppe area like Elevation 1.0 had. I'm not sure about the island idea as it would make a boat a requirement to get to HoTA and one good lockpicker and it's all over. A island with a natural bridge to it might be alright.

 

I'd like to see deeds much more expensive on Chaos than PvE. As is even a s100 isn't very expensive to maintain and it's not good for the game to have all these super deeds everywhere.

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Regarding karma porting, might be able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

First, doesn't the code already exist to check if enemies are nearby - that you cant change guards or size of a deed when there are enemies around?  Either way, I like the idea of being blocked from karma with enemies around rather than a 24 hour timer on the teleport - because it's a nice feature to have when there isn't PVP involved.

 

Secondly, how about a system that simply lets you karma to any allied deed (assuming #1 can be implemented).  you can do it anyway - by becoming a villager - so rather than forcing people to quit village and join another, which kind of kills any "village" mentality since everyone is always a member of warfront deeds - let people choose from a list of all allied deeds.  This will also allow mains to be mayors and not force the use of free alts to be a mayor of a deed (removes another thing that requires account sharing).  Also of note, there might be situations where you don't want to allow someone to port to your deed - so maybe its an option on token to not allow teleports.  Can keep a 24h limit on this as well so people cant just TP all over the server constantly.

Edited by Naio

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On 2/26/2016 at 0:19 PM, TradingAlt said:

ftfy

 

Those who have put in effort to get to where we are still have goals that we want to accomplish. Deal with it.

 

Translation:  Let us kick our enemies while they're down just a little longer. 

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Lets just remove karma-porting altogether on a PvP server to encourage travel.
If you hop the boarder with your scale set you shouldn't be able to safely get back on deed without at least travel.

Remove karmaport mechanic entirely.

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