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Retrograde

Weekly News #6 Alche-Madness

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2 hours ago, Kegan said:

I see clay, peat and tar but what about marsh? I know you can get rid of marsh with floorboards but it would be nice to be able to make some tiles if we like. 

Yes marsh would be great to be possible to created. Also missing plantable NATURAL reed (not the planted) and kelp. Some terraforming work is cancelled to save the sparse kelp I have :P

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Hrm. See how it plays out live I guess.

 

The complexity of creating might help slow issues of griefing (aka pvp :P); however, we'll see. Also I wonder what kind of decay rate the finished product will have.

 

EDIT: I recommend ql play a role in chance of tile success, if it doesn't already.

 

Also have the creation timer be interruptible by fighting, or people will be dropping this on opponents feet.

Edited by Klaa

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Thank you for the alchemy changes. I really like that the materials needed are easy to get. It may take a lot of them but anyone can collect that stuff. It's not like imbuing where only those who hunt uniques (or buy with silver) are allowed to benefit from the perk.

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1 hour ago, MisterTeddy said:

Could the blessing requirement be removed from alchemy? Most priests can't even use alchemy, and priests already have way too much influence on the gameplay overall as it is.

 

On the bright side, all the priests that can make this stuff, are also the ones able to dig it up afterwards.

Bless is a 10-favor, no-risk spell available to every priest - so if anything this encourages a little social element to the hermits.

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15 minutes ago, Stanlee said:

 

On the bright side, all the priests that can make this stuff, are also the ones able to dig it up afterwards.

Bless is a 10-favor, no-risk spell available to every priest - so if anything this encourages a little social element to the hermits.

 

It's to make it a pain to do, but not too much of a pain. It's another step so you don't have people turning the entire map into clay or tar.  Actually... who wants to start terraforming Xanadu to all tar once this goes live?

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1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

What is the deal on starter towns, not like they are much use for a new player other than a place to hide from trolls and hell hounds. I don't believe they can do any of these actions on the starter town deed, mine, farm, load/unload, cut down tree's and pick up items unless dropped by yourself.

 

 

 A place to hide from trolls and hellhounds is very important to newbie. Also, a place to sell your grass and pumpkins to the token, fish, and interact with other newbies. Blossom had (maybe still has?) a newbie smithing house nearby and a nice public mine. 

Edited by NeeNee

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So in exchange for removing annoying clay tiles, we'll get a bunch of even more annoying lemon forests :P

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starter deed visitor permissions have been revised some time ago, maybe recheck the visitors role @JakeRivers

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This is one of the most awesome changes yet.  Enough difficulty in logistics and skills to prevent all but a few from misusing it, yet practical and accessible to the masses.  

 

As for PvP not sure i see the issue, and yes i am PvEer, but have been there and have seen how deeds are built and had the reasons explained in excruciating detail. Those of you who have the resources and retarded enough to fortify a capital or town will just become fat a lazy and while you are making your cites dirt walls into tar your enemies will be too. Sounds like it adds a whole new dimension to the game, it also sounds like it makes cities a lot more secure, 7 guys with a catapult should not be able to storm a capital.

 

If anyone should be complaining in pvp it should hots as it is going to suck for us to make the stuff

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soon every deed will have a single tar, clay and peat tile, all next to each other and right by their craft workshops. Huge peat and clay (above water) fields will all vanish.  I'm really glad I haven't started my "bridge over clay" projects. 

 

One thing I am thinking about is the potential for people to abuse.  Taring over Xanadu, griefing a neighbor, etc.  Might it make sense to make the transformations only possible on a deed you control, or it's perim?  NOT possible in someone else's perim.  Not possible on unclaimed land.

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I think the limits imposed by fruit trees should discourage people from converting vast areas. Griefing, surrounding someones deed might be an issue, but probably dealt with like people that rip up highways.

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25 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

soon every deed will have a single tar, clay and peat tile, all next to each other and right by their craft workshops. Huge peat and clay (above water) fields will all vanish.  I'm really glad I haven't started my "bridge over clay" projects. 

 

One thing I am thinking about is the potential for people to abuse.  Taring over Xanadu, griefing a neighbor, etc.  Might it make sense to make the transformations only possible on a deed you control, or it's perim?  NOT possible in someone else's perim.  Not possible on unclaimed land.

Well that's the thing.  It's certainly more difficult to return a tile to dirt from a clay/tar/peat tile, however it is still possible to do.  Currently anyone can come to your perimeter and make it entirely sand, or lawn, or steppe and in such be able to grief you.  Griefing is a behavioral form of rule breaking, not a functional form of rule breaking.  Basically people can already grief your perimeter in a number of ways.  Adding in mechanics (functional) to prevent that doesn't really battle griefing in itself because griefers follow the functional rules enough to slide past the "letter of the law," but in doing so break a behavioral standard of rules.  In essence, griefing will continue in some form or fashion regardless of mechanical functions to prevent it, because griefing is a behavioral issue, not a functional one, so any modifications to this feature won't change that possibility.  I hope that made sense. lol

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7 hours ago, Redd said:

From a PvP aspect I can see a plethora of issues with the transformation of resource tiles.

 

What happens if we clay/peat our dirtwalls and therefore make them impossible to dig down, making raiding near impossible?

What about griefing on PvP servers where the objective is to just remove the enemies resource tiles?

 

Resources on PvP servers are fought over and create PvP. I feel this should be a PvE feature only.

 

the first shouldn't be possible to begin with

the second can be resolved with the same method you use to destroy them

 

and no, in all my years i have never not once seen any resource being fought over except for one or two small skirmishes.

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I'm glad alchemy is getting some more use... But I would like the ability to not have this feature in WU. I have my server set to have lower Clay,Tar,Peat,moss to encourage travel and friendship. I also make it a rule to not be able to fence these in.

I don't run a mod server just a straight WU server. I shouldn't have to make a mod to turn a new feature off I don't see fit on my server. Please before you bring this to WU make sure there is a on off switch for this feature

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39 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

the first shouldn't be possible to begin with

the second can be resolved with the same method you use to destroy them

 

and no, in all my years i have never not once seen any resource being fought over except for one or two small skirmishes.


You make his point for him by saying "using the same method to destroy them"
Which means it turns into a resource battle. 
so you HAVE seen people fight over resources?
:S

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49 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

the first shouldn't be possible to begin with

the second can be resolved with the same method you use to destroy them

 

and no, in all my years i have never not once seen any resource being fought over except for one or two small skirmishes.

 

Resources play an important role in the strategical game which is Chaos. Of course it'll be possible as you can turn dirt (which dirtwalls are made from) into clay/tar/peat. 

 

I have seen resources fought over many times, you were probably too busy hopping kingdoms back when.

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Thank you all for the feedback!

 

I must admit, my original thoughts were "it's more effort to turn an entire deed into resource walls, it would be far easier for a raiding force to hit a small area" But I have spoken with a few PvPers and I can agree, becoming just another time consuiming drawback to raising feels a bit much.

 

We'll be looking at limitations on slopes for CREATING resource tiles, turning resource tiles to dirt will still have no limitations.

 

No one wants a 40-60 slope tar wall, right?

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Bad for PvP servers for obvious reasons.

 

Easy fix: make it so you can only spawn the resource tiles close to water level (like 50 above water level at maximum) - can't do it on dirt walls anymore then. Also make it so you can only remove the resource tiles on your own deed on PvP servers so you can't grief others with it.

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8 hours ago, Redd said:

Resources on PvP servers are fought over and create PvP. I feel this should be a PvE feature only.

 

To be fair, I've never heard of an instance where resources have been fought over on Wild/Chaos. It's easy enough to just truck a load of any kind of iron, clay, bricks, etc in to a new deed site and build. If there were real fights over resources, and if it was too difficult to actually transport materials/supplies, we wouldn't be spending our silver on Chaos buying mortar (and bricks) from Freedom, in bulkloads. :)

 

The issue with the tar/marsh on dirtwalls - just make it easy to remove them. Right Click > Remove or something.

 

Besides, if this feature goes in on Chaos/Epic, no deed will ever need to run outside the city walls and dig clay/peat off-site, as there will already be tiles spawned inside for that.

Edited by Xallo

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2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

No one wants a 40-60 slope tar wall, right?

 

Disclaimer: I play on PVE.

 

I would rather see 120 high tar/clay/peat ridges than the currently popular stone slabs mountains.

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Gonna start writing up my comedy act to distract my enemies while my buddies juice up them tar walls.  

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31 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Thank you all for the feedback!

 

I must admit, my original thoughts were "it's more effort to turn an entire deed into resource walls, it would be far easier for a raiding force to hit a small area" But I have spoken with a few PvPers and I can agree, becoming just another time consuiming drawback to raising feels a bit much.

 

We'll be looking at limitations on slopes for CREATING resource tiles, turning resource tiles to dirt will still have no limitations.

 

No one wants a 40-60 slope tar wall, right?

Can't that also be used to prevent fixing dirt walls. Dig it down then clay it so enemies can't rise it back forcing them always have this liquid somewhere stored away.

EDIT: in a more extreme situation. You could use clay tile to prevent any way to break into mines cause rock tile won't reveal unless you carry this liquid around.

Edited by shankiest
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The next logical step would be potions to turn rock into whatever ore you fancy - whatever it takes that people never have to leave their deed again and (heaven forbid) explore or meet other people.

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My own peat tile, here I come! The trees in my area will rejoice.

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I think that would be awesome for PvP... (I am strictly PvE)

Your enemy slowwwwwly climbs up your very steep tar wall... and half way up, you set fire to the tar!

Perfect!

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