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Elktazahjr

Wurm online is dying and it has to be revived

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Plenty of good point, which have been raised countless times and nothing have been done for it.

 

But hey lets hope our new addition to the paid staff will help sorting those good ideas and implement them.

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On 2/9/2016 at 3:55 PM, purplenurple said:

I agree WO needs help keeping players and fixing issues... but it's been the same story for 8 years, this is nothing new.   And yet the game still exists, this isn't the end.

8 years ago the game was still progressing with lots of new changes in the horizon.. That kept people playing and coming back.. Im afraid much of those updates came in and made wurm see its heyday and many now feel there is only a downhill slope seeing as to how many problems go unfixed. The inconsistency with gm rulings is KILLING this game more then many want to accept. Old rules havnt changed while much of the codes and full on system overhauls have. There is a large disconnect with how issues are handled.. T

Much of the GM team are not professional.. They act from a non buisness stand point and most of the time biased. There are a few GMs that have gone above and beyond at times but those are far to few. 

 

There is no accountability for gms, perhaps Rolf is afraid to lose free help, but Rolf should open his eyes to see how much free help he could actually have if he so wanted... The only thing needed to regulate biased decisons is harsh punishments for GMs and you would see a much better game because of it.

 

An example of how to deal with an issue:

Rather then making a rash decison and banning a player for possibly breaking a rule, a GM can and should realize that he/she is dealing with another HUMAN... And so when dealing with someone in a business stand point not only is the GM dealing with the player in question but the decison also affects the players of the game as well. 

Outdated rules can be changed but its a bit harder to change in a situation after being rash... A community would complain more about a reversal of a  decision rather than if the decison was taken more serious... How about a temp suspension of the account to be able to review within 24 hours... Then once a decison is made clearly spelling it out for the PAYING CUSTOMERS and give an explanation of the reasoning. Psychology goes a very long way in business practices. 

 

Even if the decision was made by the GM team/Rolf that bent the rule or changed the rule well then would be opportune timing for a public service announcement stating that blah blah changes to the game made x rule out of date and x change were to be made of it and although there will be some sort of penalty it will not be as drastic and here are the changes... And there you would have a customer who would most likely keep playing and the rest of the community seeing that actions are not just being taken without thought.

 

Bah i feel like posting this is a waste. In one ear out the other.

Edited by MaurizioAM

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49 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

8 years ago the game was still progressing with lots of new changes in the horizon.. That kept people playing and coming back.. Im afraid much of those updates came in and made wurm see its heyday and many now feel there is only a downhill slope seeing as to how many problems go unfixed. The inconsistency with gm rulings is KILLING this game more then many want to accept. Old rules havnt changed while much of the codes and full on system overhauls have. There is a large disconnect with how issues are handled.. T

Much of the GM team are not professional.. They act from a non buisness stand point and most of the time biased. There are a few GMs that have gone above and beyond at times but those are far to few. 

 

There is no accountability for gms, perhaps Rolf is afraid to lose free help, but Rolf should open his eyes to see how much free help he could actually have if he so wanted... The only thing needed to regulate biased decisons is harsh punishments for GMs and you would see a much better game because of it.

 

An example of how to deal with an issue:

Rather then making a rash decison and banning a player for possibly breaking a rule, a GM can and should realize that he/she is dealing with another HUMAN... And so when dealing with someone in a business stand point not only is the GM dealing with the player in question but the decison also affects the players of the game as well. 

Outdated rules can be changed but its a bit harder to change in a situation after being rash... A community would complain more about a reversal of a  decision rather than if the decison was taken more serious... How about a temp suspension of the account to be able to review within 24 hours... Then once a decison is made clearly spelling it out for the PAYING CUSTOMERS and give an explanation of the reasoning. Psychology goes a very long way in business practices. 

 

Even if the decision was made by the GM team/Rolf that bent the rule or changed the rule well then would be opportune timing for a public service announcement stating that blah blah changes to the game made x rule out of date and x change were to be made of it and although there will be some sort of penalty it will not be as drastic and here are the changes... And there you would have a customer who would most likely keep playing and the rest of the community seeing that actions are not just being taken without thought.

 

Bah i feel like posting this is a waste. In one ear out the other.

I disagree.  Most of the time GM's are too forgiving, and don't follow through with strict punishment where it is needed.  I've rarely seen a situation where GM's were too harsh with their rulings, but instead more lenient when they probably shouldn't be.  To be sure, however, all of this is speculation for the most part.  We aren't behind the scenes with the information that the staff has, so we aren't exactly privy to what should or should not be done in a given situation.  This of course only speaks towards rule sets and enforcement.  Any game related issues and updates are for another post that I won't go into because the debate would be far too frustrating.

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2 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

I disagree.  Most of the time GM's are too forgiving, and don't follow through with strict punishment where it is needed.  I've rarely seen a situation where GM's were too harsh with their rulings, but instead more lenient when they probably shouldn't be.  To be sure, however, all of this is speculation for the most part.  We aren't behind the scenes with the information that the staff has, so we aren't exactly privy to what should or should not be done in a given situation.  This of course only speaks towards rule sets and enforcement.  Any game related issues and updates are for another post that I won't go into because the debate would be far too frustrating.

You are missing a vital point to my comment. The point being there have been multiple game code changes and full changes to how some things work but rule remain outdated many times. These are the times that hurt the most when the way you play changes and the rules do not. 

 

I know some of which situations you are talking about on the PVE end, but again i will point the finger at the devs/gms because much of situations are caused by the game. If the code and rules were both taken into account there would be less issues... If updates were tested there would be less issues... If rules applied to new updates were set there would be less issues... Do you see where im going with this? They need to stop halfarshing this game and they would have less issues. The reasons why the gms are sometimes to lenient on an issue is becasue they realize more then half the time is the games fault.

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My input regarding GM accountability: Actually display the name of the GM that makes a note on a player's ticket, or closes that ticket. I've had a case where a GM closed out a ticket before even talking to me, with little awareness of what the situation was, and I had no way of knowing who it was. How can someone be accountable when you can't even tell who they are?

Edited by Ostentatio

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1 hour ago, MaurizioAM said:

You are missing a vital point to my comment. The point being there have been multiple game code changes and full changes to how some things work but rule remain outdated many times. These are the times that hurt the most when the way you play changes and the rules do not. 

 

I know some of which situations you are talking about on the PVE end, but again i will point the finger at the devs/gms because much of situations are caused by the game. If the code and rules were both taken into account there would be less issues... If updates were tested there would be less issues... If rules applied to new updates were set there would be less issues... Do you see where im going with this? They need to stop halfarshing this game and they would have less issues. The reasons why the gms are sometimes to lenient on an issue is becasue they realize more then half the time is the games fault.

From my experience and conversations that is seldom the actual case.  Usually it comes from them not wanting to ban people unless it's their absolute last option, because banning obviously reduces player count and they avoid banning players, if at all possible, especially if they're subscribers.  That's just what I've found through conversation with GM's [by this I mean them not wanting to ban people unless it's their last option].

Edited by Slickshot

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An all out ban never has to be an option. (with the exception to thse hacking the client) There are plenty of ways to address issues without bans. There are plenty of ways to deal with losses caused by the game itself. 

 

This game has a poor way of dealing with its customers. Has a poor way of dealing with live updates without testing. Has a bad way of dealing with issues caused by poor planning on their part. Has a bad way of dealing with rule breakers... Rules in general. Im not trying to be an arse about it... Im just stating for as small of a game it is playerbase wise this games ratio of how many people have left and how many complain about the same thing... That speaks for itself.

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Interestingly enough my actions with the GM have not benefitted me at all:

 

1.  I accidentally left a house writ on an old free alt, that alt expired and the writ was deleted along with him.  The house is on a deed and cannot be reclaimed.  I can't bash it (fo priest) and even if I did I could not rebuild it (fo priest), so I am left with a house on a deed I own that just sits there gathering dust.

 

2.  Years ago we were robbed, we knew who had done it and could see our stuff in his place but the GMs were unable to do anything about it.

 

The trouble is the GMs I have spoken to have been polite and honest, as well as offering advice on how to avoid situations like that in the future.  While it left me feeling unsatisfied as a paying customer it really isn't down to the GMs who just enforce the rules, they do not make them.  What is really needed is a rule reform in certain areas that allows GMS to offer reparation of some kind to players who have lost out due to a mechanic that is not behaving as intended (I mean seriously, how would it be contraversial to create a writ for a building that has no writ or owner so that the the deed the building is on can either remove it or pass it to a new resident?).  I suspect it doesn't feel nice to be a GM and constantly have to tell people "I'm sorry but there is nothing we can do"...

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1 minute ago, Etherdrifter said:

I suspect it doesn't feel nice to be a GM and constantly have to tell people "I'm sorry but there is nothing we can do"...

Why would they care? It's not their loss, they'll have probably forgotten about your petty house that takes up space on your deed within a few days of you putting in the ticket. They're not the ones that have to deal with it, or the ones paying for a house you have no control over to sit on deed.

When I first started playing this game years ago, the GM's were extremely helpful. I remember Enki personally helping me out with account issues after a long hiatus, I remember the GM's helping me with various other things when I first started playing, too.
Things going missing, Body getting bugged, etc.

Things have seemed to change.

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1 hour ago, MaurizioAM said:

You are missing a vital point to my comment. The point being there have been multiple game code changes and full changes to how some things work but rule remain outdated many times. These are the times that hurt the most when the way you play changes and the rules do not. 

 

I know some of which situations you are talking about on the PVE end, but again i will point the finger at the devs/gms because much of situations are caused by the game. If the code and rules were both taken into account there would be less issues... If updates were tested there would be less issues... If rules applied to new updates were set there would be less issues... Do you see where im going with this? They need to stop halfarshing this game and they would have less issues. The reasons why the gms are sometimes to lenient on an issue is becasue they realize more then half the time is the games fault.

 

Please, not this argument again. The last time this was started, they locked the thread. Outdated rules are still rules. Play within them or don't get mad when you get the punishment that's IN THE RULES.

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1 minute ago, zethreal said:

 

Please, not this argument again. The last time this was started, they locked the thread. Outdated rules are still rules. Play within them or don't get mad when you get the punishment that's IN THE RULES.

Exactly.  I honestly don't understand how some people complain so much about everything in this game.  Try to enjoy a game for what it is, instead of hating it for what it isn't.  That's my guideline anyhow.

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1 hour ago, Ostentatio said:

My input regarding GM accountability: Actually display the name of the GM that makes a note on a player's ticket, or closes that ticket. I've had a case where a GM closed out a ticket before even talking to me, with little awareness of what the situation was, and I had no way of knowing who it was. How can someone be accountable when you can't even tell who they are?

 

I had a CM escalate a ticket to a GM & not even 2 minutes later it was deescalated back to a CM. Thankfully the CM spoke to me about it and let me know what the findings were, so I can understand your frustration. It would be nice for it to list who makes changes to the ticket instead of just registering who spoke to the player.

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Anyone heard of the placebo effect? You believe is dying, the game will be very boring for you. You believe WO is the best game in the world, you will have a great time playing. Opinion of most: if the game has lasted this long, well there is no reason it won't last until the end of the world. At which point, I believe we will be able to play using our minds and not even touching a keyboard or mouse.

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3 hours ago, polarbear said:

Anyone heard of the placebo effect? You believe is dying, the game will be very boring for you. You believe WO is the best game in the world, you will have a great time playing. Opinion of most: if the game has lasted this long, well there is no reason it won't last until the end of the world. At which point, I believe we will be able to play using our minds and not even touching a keyboard or mouse.

Positive thinking goes a long long way that's for sure.  Doomsayers predict annihilation and then seek it out to make it true.  Kind of flawed.

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3 hours ago, polarbear said:

Anyone heard of the placebo effect? You believe is dying, the game will be very boring for you. You believe WO is the best game in the world, you will have a great time playing. Opinion of most: if the game has lasted this long, well there is no reason it won't last until the end of the world. At which point, I believe we will be able to play using our minds and not even touching a keyboard or mouse.

Saying that wurm online isn't dying isn't positivity, it is fooling yourself. The numbers speak for themselves, there is nothing opinion or feeling about it, feeling positive and happy won't suddenly bring hundreds to wurm online.

 

Not to mention that is the wrong usage of the world placebo anyway, you're looking for "self fulfilling prophecy".

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11 minutes ago, Elktazahjr said:

Saying that wurm online is dying is negativity, and you're fooling yourself.

Fixed to show accuracy.

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20 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

An all out ban never has to be an option. (with the exception to thse hacking the client) There are plenty of ways to address issues without bans. There are plenty of ways to deal with losses caused by the game itself. 

 

This game has a poor way of dealing with its customers. Has a poor way of dealing with live updates without testing. Has a bad way of dealing with issues caused by poor planning on their part. Has a bad way of dealing with rule breakers... Rules in general. Im not trying to be an arse about it... Im just stating for as small of a game it is playerbase wise this games ratio of how many people have left and how many complain about the same thing... That speaks for itself.

 

It sounds like you or someone you know was constantly breaking rules, or pushing the limits, and got called on it by a GM.  I understand that can make you feel bad.  But for you to come here and claim the GM's and their rulings are killing the game or whatever is just...it doesn't make much sense.

 

I can't even remember the last time I spoke to a GM.  Much less had one make me want to quit Wurm.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Interestingly enough my actions with the GM have not benefitted me at all:

 

1.  I accidentally left a house writ on an old free alt, that alt expired and the writ was deleted along with him.  The house is on a deed and cannot be reclaimed.  I can't bash it (fo priest) and even if I did I could not rebuild it (fo priest), so I am left with a house on a deed I own that just sits there gathering dust.

 

2.  Years ago we were robbed, we knew who had done it and could see our stuff in his place but the GMs were unable to do anything about it.

 

The trouble is the GMs I have spoken to have been polite and honest, as well as offering advice on how to avoid situations like that in the future.  While it left me feeling unsatisfied as a paying customer it really isn't down to the GMs who just enforce the rules, they do not make them.  What is really needed is a rule reform in certain areas that allows GMS to offer reparation of some kind to players who have lost out due to a mechanic that is not behaving as intended (I mean seriously, how would it be contraversial to create a writ for a building that has no writ or owner so that the the deed the building is on can either remove it or pass it to a new resident?).  I suspect it doesn't feel nice to be a GM and constantly have to tell people "I'm sorry but there is nothing we can do"...

 

#1.  Can't even happen anymore via the new permissions system.  So why bring this up?  And why would you trade a writ to an alt anyway? 

 

#2.  You probably weren't "robbed".  You just didn't secure your property.  Which in Wurm is NOT theft.

 

Building writs aren't even a thing anymore, and good riddance I say.  I'm a little confused why you keep bringing that up....

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Fortunately there is already a Rebirth enchant ingame, despite the long line of nerfs to it.

 

Not to mention other shenanigans associated with the spell.

Edited by Klaa

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On 2/9/2016 at 6:00 PM, Zerocool said:

-Isn't mythmoor the one people keep getting cussed out and banned on? Legitimate question because that is what I keep hearing here. Cute that you thought putting that in there was gonna get people joining up with you though.

 

I really only respond for my own entertainment though. Rolf isn't gonna read your post and I feel bad for anyone on staff who chunks through it. Development is a dialogue with the consumer. Slow dialogue, slow development. You aren't helping with this. This post makes more sense in the review section for WU on steam than the suggestions section on WO.

 

New to these forums, attitudes like this don't really make me want to be a part of the forums community. Anyone and everyone knows that threads like these aren't going to make any changes to the game. Thread creator most likely understood that when making the thread but you don't need to be rude about it just because they put themselves out there.

 

As far as the Mythmoor server, I've played there for more than 10 hours a day just about every day for the last few months (I'm a disgusting nolifer), and I only ever heard of a handful of bans, maybe one independent person early on and one or two PVP groups that were upset they didn't get their way. I wouldn't anticipate that server going anywhere anytime soon either. Not sure how payment works in WO but even though the players on the Mythmoor server can earn their way through the whole game, there are still people willing to chunk out some money and buy in-game rewards. There were two players recently that contributed $250 each to the server, so that should be at least a few months alone.

 

In response to the title, most things people have said here are irrelevant from my perspective. By releasing WU, Code Club basically handed out WO for just a one time B2P cost. Back in November when I was thinking of getting WU I read the forums, and there were lots of hopeful WO players thinking that WU would be a means of advertising WO to the Steam crowd. If that was the plan then it doesn't seem to have worked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but just about the only people left on WO are those that have invested a lot of energy (financially, emotionally, etc) into the "MMO." Now WU is just as massive as WO. My thought is that if they want to see new subscribers to Wurm, they're going to have to remake the game from the ground up and fix what is broken. Probably shut down WO, give everyone access to the old server maps, and compensate long-time subscribers with a free copy of WU. At least that's what I would do.

 

So in my opinion, Wurm Online is not dying, but it has to be killed :P

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25 minutes ago, radii said:

 

New to these forums, attitudes like this don't really make me want to be a part of the forums community.

 

Not changing my attitude for you or anyone else. Also not responsible for whether you stay or go, that is on you. You will see worse than me.

25 minutes ago, radii said:

Probably shut down WO, give everyone access to the old server maps, and compensate long-time subscribers with a free copy of WU.

 

Oh no I have two sources of revenue, better cut this one off while it is still profitable.

 

Edit: Oh hey you have 1 post. You signed up specifically to quote me? So my posts and attitude are actually exactly why you are "part of the forums community".

Edited by Zerocool

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5 minutes ago, Zerocool said:

Oh no I have two sources of revenue, better cut this one off while it is still profitable.

 

Obviously not immediately, but if I were Code Club I would be working on an even more profitable version of WO. The concept is wildly popular, the execution is not.

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32 minutes ago, radii said:

Probably shut down WO, give everyone access to the old server maps, and compensate long-time subscribers with a free copy of WU. At least that's what I would do.

 

So in my opinion, Wurm Online is not dying, but it has to be killed :P

Jeeze I'm glad you're not in charge of anything if you're suggesting killing a fine game. 
Game has seen changes in the past few years that have increased the quality of playing dramatically, and I can almost guarantee that it has more players than when I started.

Yeah we lost a lot of people to WU, that should have been obvious. Doesn't mean we're not going to get any new players.

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I'm not sure it is even fair to count those who switched to WU as lost. They still sell the brand by word of mouth at least. Heck, Steam does the word of mouth for them. Nice little notification telling you your friend is playing something when they launch it.

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Figured you'd say something like that Zerocool, lol

 

I'm just throwing my 2 cents in, as a WU player I'm the type of player that likes to spend as little on subscriptions as possible. I understand that people from WO aren't necessarily like that. When I say the game should be "killed," I just mean that if I were on a subscription fee I would expect more than WO. I hope you guys can understand my point of view.

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