Ban Discussion+Rule Revision: Champ Point Farming

[Hashirama 870]

right

[Kegan 3,926]

Maybe they need to revisit the champion system so that it can not be exploited seems all this suggestion does is make it so more players are comfortable abusing the system because the punishment is reduced. 

[icbash 352]

Hashy u want to keep editing ya post.. i can to.. i understand what the point of this post is about. if u can not see the point im making you really are clueless.. and should go back to school..

becuz its all part of the same problem..

[PassiveMiniroll 160]

If he gained battle rank it would show on here: http://wild001.game.wurmonline.com/battles/ranks.html

You only get champ points from kills if the player is over 50fs which will give you 1 rank which means 1 point.

Still stupid anyway, because the point system is meh and gaining champ points before was only for keeping said champ hood which would be understandable for a ban. but considering no points were gained... nothing should have happened.

 

Could we get the dev team to look at a way to reimburse champ lives? because I know of many cases from multiple kingdoms where a very very stupid bug happens and kills people. i.e Digging dirt server lag tick = instarip, or suffocating in cave floors/walls, or riding a cart into a building and getting RIPed instantly... kinda a bullcrap way to lose lives...

[MaurizioAM 919]

Rather then the CONSISTANT RASH desicions that continue to be made.. How about just a temp ban for 24 hours so the incedent can be looked into? Again the same promblem is happening in game as in real life... Those with authority feel they are above the law.

 

The reason for bans long ago was for a purpose you lost you points you lost your life. This is no longer the chase that has been changed and so should have these damn rules!

 

Wurm is going down the wrong road here. 

[zethreal 582]

50 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

Rather then the CONSISTANT RASH desicions that continue to be made.. How about just a temp ban for 24 hours so the incedent can be looked into? Again the same promblem is happening in game as in real life... Those with authority feel they are above the law.

 

The reason for bans long ago was for a purpose you lost you points you lost your life. This is no longer the chase that has been changed and so should have these damn rules!

 

Your argument is still the same as everyone else. "The rule is outdated and should be ignored". He killed an alt, which could have given him champ points. That is a violation, so they did the "right" thing by following through with the penalty.  Should the rule be looked into and possibly changed? Most likely. Does that change the fact that the person that was banned be let off? Probably not, as the rule is still currently in effect.

Edited February 4, 2016 by zethreal
Should read "Does that mean that the person that was banned should be let off?"

[Slickshot 1,195]

2 minutes ago, zethreal said:

 

Your argument is still the same as everyone else. "The rule is outdated and should be ignored". He killed an alt, which could have given him champ points. That is a violation, so they did the "right" thing by following through with the penalty.  Should the rule be looked into and possibly changed? Most likely. Does that change the fact that the person that was banned be let off? Probably not, as the rule is still currently in effect.

Good reasoning.  I feel most people get distracted with details in a debate and forget the ground rules and basics of what they are debating about.

[zethreal 582]

Thanks Slickshot. 

 

Just because you feel rules should be changed, does not mean you can break them without being penalized.

[icbash 352]

funny part if you look at the rules way they worded they not broke

[zethreal 582]

1 minute ago, icbash said:

funny part if you look at the rules way they worded they not broke

 

If he was awarded champ points, he did. I was not trying to say that he was definitely guilty, just that if the rules were broken & the argument was "they're outdated"... they're still rules. I don't know what went on other than people upset that someone was banned for some "old outdated rule".  Honestly, I don't play pvp so I've got no real idea what's going on just that it sounds like a bunch of people arguing that someone should be let off because the rule the Wurm team used to ban him needs to be looked at and possibly changed.

 

From your earlier post:

"* Gaining champion points outside of normal PvP. (example: Draining your own or a friends deeds, or killing avatars provided only as a service for champion points.) "

 

From thirtynine: 

"Maximillian did indeed get 1 champ point from the alt killing.  That was confirmed."

 

That tells me that the rule, as listed, was broken. The alt was killed outside of normal PvP and a champion point was gained.

[Maximillian 155]

28 minutes ago, zethreal said:

 

Your argument is still the same as everyone else. "The rule is outdated and should be ignored". He killed an alt, which could have given him champ points. That is a violation, so they did the "right" thing by following through with the penalty.  Should the rule be looked into and possibly changed? Most likely. Does that change the fact that the person that was banned be let off? Probably not, as the rule is still currently in effect.

I'm not interested in changing any rule at this time. What I am interested in is why I got banned. The rule says if I kill a avatar to gain champion points I should be banned, not if you get nothing. There was no rule broken yet I still get ban and de-champed sort that out for me.

 

Edit: The reason I got banned is a GM took a rash action based on no information Enki himself said there was no record of the champ point gained to me.

 

Edit 2 for your more recent post: Why do you assume the OP's info is correct?

Edited February 4, 2016 by Maximillian

[zethreal 582]

2 minutes ago, Maximillian said:

I'm not interested in changing any rule at this time. What I am interested in is why I got banned. The rule says if I kill a avatar to gain champion points I should be banned, not if you get nothing. There was no rule broken yet I still get ban and de-champed sort that out for me.

 

Sorry, I thought I had reworded that before posting. Meant to say "He killed an alt, which could have given him champ points. If it had - that is a violation..."

[icbash 352]

alt was below 50fs or im told

Edited February 4, 2016 by icbash
typo

[zethreal 582]

6 minutes ago, Maximillian said:

Edit 2 for your more recent post: Why do you assume the OP's info is correct?

 

One has to assume some information is correct. If your information is correct and you did not receive a champ point. You did not break the rules and should not have been banned. My entire argument has not been to keep your ban or let you off. It was that IF you had been found guilty, you SHOULD be banned and any proposed rule change should not have an effect on this one instance. 

 

Honestly, I do zip with PvP and the entire thing doesn't have any affect on me. I'm just voicing my opinion that future rule changes should not change previous rulings.

[Maximillian 155]

Fair enough. I shouldn't assume everyone is a 10 year old I guess -.-.

 

 

Edit: To be on topic the idea of changing the rule is not good as is, 1 chance with a reasonable punishment and then perma-banned.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Maximillian

[zethreal 582]

2 minutes ago, Maximillian said:

Fair enough. I shouldn't assume everyone is a 10 year old I guess -.-

And I should learn not to browse forums when I'm counting down the minutes until I can leave the office.

[SmeJack 5,800]

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2014#140317_Cooldowns_and_Champion_3-strike

"You also get the champion points worth of any battle points you gain from any kill"

 

 

[icbash 352]

thx smejack proved my point.

info needs to be in rules or made sure its updated on wiki with rules linking to it

[Maximillian 155]

8 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2014#140317_Cooldowns_and_Champion_3-strike

"You also get the champion points worth of any battle points you gain from any kill"

 

 

Afaik I got non, no message or anything with champion points?

[KaiH 1,126]

while that was cleared now, can we get back to the OP?

 

does the rule need to be changed? and if, in which way?

[thirtynine 257]

Doing /champs in game will reveal champ points.  It only works for any Champ with a kill that day atm.  A member luckily did it on the 29th when the kill took place.  

 

[21:03:22] Current Eternal Records:
[21:03:22] Maximillian 1
[21:03:22] Older Eternal Records:

 

[ElvenElder 139]

It goes without saying that the ruling is completely ridiculous. Did he get his account back yet ?

[PassiveMiniroll 160]

Have a look through the twitter logs yourself! wildserv1 announces all champion point gains from kills!

and guess what?!

it didnt announce it!

 

[MrGARY 12,421]

2 hours ago, icbash said:

thx smejack proved my point.

info needs to be in rules or made sure its updated on wiki with rules linking to it

 

* Gaining champion points outside of normal PvP. (example: Draining your own or a friends deeds, or killing avatars provided only as a service for champion points.)
 

It's pretty clear to me that it's gaining champion points outside of normal pvp still.  It's not up to the rules imo to state how game mechanics regarding champion points work, the players should know. 

 

2 hours ago, Maximillian said:

Afaik I got non, no message or anything with champion points?

 

Lets say someone failed to successfully break the rules, it doesn't change the fact they were doing something that is against the rules.  If you're on freedom and tried luring mobs to a player to try to get them killed but failed to accomplish it, it doesn't mean that you weren't dragging mobs to try to kill the guy

 

5 hours ago, Maximillian said:

There was noalt farming or champion point gained to my knowledge the character gauntlet is around 28fs and only died to a single hit as a damage test not to farm anything. I think the punishment far out weighs the ?crime? Considering its only champ point farming that's the rule. Where would I even see my champ points?

 

It doesn't make sense to try to test damage with an enemy alt that requires using a proxy to login, it seems easier to test on a same kingdom alt/village mate?  Champion points should be visible in spell effects

 

The deed disbanding also btw afaik is only for when a deed is used to farm points, not just because you live in it

 

Edit:

2 minutes ago, PassiveMiniroll said:

Have a look through the twitter logs yourself! wildserv1 announces all champion point gains from kills!

and guess what?!

it didnt announce it!

 

 

That's only for deed drains and over 50fs.  You get champ points from rank gained which is documented, and not announced on twitter

Edited February 5, 2016 by MrGARY

[Propheteer 7,139]

The rule was put in place when you used champion points to hold your champion status, it seems a bit archaic, as much as i dislike anything related to alts.