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Cista

Wait what, steppe now eating through forests

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So I am finally realising that steppe is now eating up grass tiles. The last few times I have walked around my neighbourhood, it became more and more obvious. I am making a specific test of it, but is hardly necessary anymore. It must have been implemented quite recently but I never pay attention, was it announced?

It has been known hitherto that steppe tiles and grass tiles did not grow over each other, for example here  http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/81542-grasssteppe-spreading/

 

In my little pic here you see what we will slowly see more off. Steppe is everywhere and expanding *through* the forests on the ridges, leaving trees standing on single grass tiles with steppe around. 

fglwVhQ.jpg

 

The longterm consequences will be, than when settlers chop down the trees surrounded by steppe, those tiles will also become steppe. There will be less regrowth of the timber trees that people want, leading to even more trees being cut down. Ultimately there will also be a shortage of flowers needed for planting new grass.

This will of course be countered by the players actively planting grass and trees. But we are going to see some changes.

Edited by Cista
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Another picture of the mixture of steppe and trees that we will begin to see everywhere soon.

tjWTShm.jpg

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As far as I know it always did that! (Steppe has a tendency to expand.)

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Aye, I have a Cele deed on the southern steppe, there's a constant struggle between the grass and steppe. Steppe seems to be a little more aggressive in its expansion but occasionally the grass will just go nuts and push in 2-3 tiles over a day. but all in all seems to balance out in the end.

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Yaga, you may be right that it was always the case, but in 2013 some experienced players did testify that the two tile types will not grow over each other, and that seemed to be the consensus.

Maybe it happened with a very low probability, but by how much things have changed in my neighbourhood lately, I am then suspecting that devs have recently increased the rate with which steppe invades grass. Over the years there have been many requests to make steppe a more resilient biome, so they may have sneaked a rate change in there.

 

I am also suspecting that the speed at which steppe and grass - respectively - invade dirt, has changed. 

This is a separate issue, which I tested specifically one year ago and found that grass grows over dirt 3-4 times faster than steppe. I am going to test that again now, I think steppe is maybe faster than it was before.

 

Maybe all this is only interesting for Xanadu with its wide expanses where nature develops freely - now 1½ years and ongoing! 

Edited by Cista
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Grass can also expand over Steppe (have replanted mixed grass in a few spots of my deed several times)

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+team grass and trees - the steppe by me spreads a lot. I've stopped it with floorboards and paving. But it's a pain.

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4 hours ago, LorraineJ said:

+team grass and trees - the steppe by me spreads a lot. I've stopped it with floorboards and paving. But it's a pain.

 

why, just pack it to dirt, cultivate, plant thatch.  I did that on around 20 tiles last night after i noticed a bunch of it showing up where it wasn't 3 weeks before.

 

Unless you're thinking of marsh?

Edited by Stormblade
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3 hours ago, Stormblade said:

 

why, just pack it to dirt, cultivate, plant thatch.  I did that on around 20 tiles last night after i noticed a bunch of it showing up where it wasn't 3 weeks before.

 

Unless you're thinking of marsh?

 

OMG yes that is what I was thinking of. But still the fast-spreading steppe is being a pain.

 

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Lorraine, is it your impression that steppe is spreading more now than 2-3 years ago, or is it the same as always?

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You never can tell what changes the Dev's will sneak in unannounced. I also think that things of these sorts happen inadvertently, that even they don't realize.

 

I never did like steppe so whenever I see any around I just dig once and drop the dirt back. Of course now that dirt drops on ground when digging you have to pick it up to drop it back down again, which is a disadvantage of dirt dropping to the ground instead of into inventory. Anyway, besides the point, that.

 

Then with the above approach new sprouts can be planted to eliminate the invasive steppe. That is until someone comes along and cuts down the trees and doesn't bother to replant them. On and on it goes. Such is Wurm life, where every advantage is countered by another disadvantage, snuck in or otherwise. Yea, that's the ticket!

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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I've lived near the edge of a steppe* at some point and seen it push back and forth a few tiles all the time, i guess that depends on the mood of the server when it goes through the tiles which side gets lucky :P 

 

* Before @Wulfgar sanded the whole area while i was away, goddamit.

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5 hours ago, bdew said:

i guess that depends on the mood of the server when it goes through the tiles which side gets lucky

 

Nope, I don't see that at all. I only see steppe marching forward.

There is a clear pattern everywhere in my area, where you will find isolated tiles of grass tiles enveloped by steppe, as you see clearly in my picture#2 above.

 

And the same is seen in this picture#3 below. Those blobs of steppe in the background used to be a few fragmented tiles of steppe where I had eradicated a previous blob. Now you see isolated tiles of grass inside, waiting to be overgrown. You don't se isolated tiles of steppe, all the steppe tiles are contiguous (in each blob), because grass never grows over steppe tiles to cut of a bud or a single tile of steppe from the others.

 

If you can find (naturally) isolated tiles of steppe surrounded by grass where you live, it would be interesting to see some pics of that :)

 

i4pPIb0.jpg

 

 

Edited by Cista

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The probability of dirt being colonized by grass vs steppe (vs tundra?) could be influenced by elevation above the water level. 

 

What are the elevations where these observations are being made?

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3 hours ago, Meldichoir said:

The probability of dirt being colonized by grass vs steppe (vs tundra?) could be influenced by elevation above the water level. 

 

The issue I am highlighting is not about dirt. No dirt is involved, it is just about steppe bordering grass.

(I am open to the possibility that the speed of growing into dirt may *also* have changed. But dirt is not involved in processes in undisturbed areas since dirt does not occur naturally in the Wurm environment. In most parts of Xanadu there are basically no players. There are also no animals packing tiles)

 

I do realise now (also from private chats) that many observers already knew that steppe will overgrow grass at some slow rate. I am still interested in knowing if they think this was always the case, or it is a more recent dynamic, or the rate of overgrowing has changed?

Edited by Cista

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6 hours ago, Cista said:

The issue I am highlighting is not about dirt. No dirt is involved, it is just about steppe bordering grass.

The issue is about grass and steppe competing for dirt tiles (regardless of whether they are already occupied). Yes, dirt is involved.

Allow me to phrase my comment again so that the actual point can be acknowledged:
The probability of [grass overtaking steppe]/[steppe overtaking grass] may be influenced by elevation.

People on this thread, including yourself, are reporting differing results from deliberate tests made in the past. I am asking what the approximate (low/medium/high) elevations were at the locations of those experiments.

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Take 3 4x3 paved areas paved surronding them.

 

1st    =  1 dirt next to 1 grass

2nd  =   1 dirt next to steep

3rd  =    1 grass next to steep  ( can also do multiple cases of this to test how fast steep over takes grass vs grass over taking steep )

 

see wich one spreads the fastest.

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Testing is great, but for some immediate information you can look around your (undisturbed) neighbourhood:

If you find some isolated tiles of grass, it means steppe is dominating.

If you find isolated tiles of both types, that indicates they can both overgrow each other randomly.

 

In my region on Xanadu, steppe is eating up everything that's green, and I just checked with my alt on Independence. It is the same situation there.

There is little doubt that steppe is eating grass everywhere, but slowly. I will try test for the speed, I am guessing steppe advances not more than say, 10 tiles per year unless they recently changed the speed.

Edited by Cista

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