Allow Us To Remove Perimeter Please!

[MaurizioAM 919]

Perimeter has more of a need on freedom but not so much on chaos. We currently have the option to expand it but not remove it. On freedom it serves its purpose but on chaos its more of a hinderance. Freedomers have no need to worry about being attacked but only having players becomig a nuisance trying to get to close to ones deed. On chaos we have to worry about attacks which enemies will come right up to your door step and perimeters hinder a village to build reinforcements. I would select to have 0 Perimeter around my deed so that i am only hit with normal decay vs double decay or whatever it is inside of a perimeter. Its almost like having a negative affect on the very perimter of YOUR land. 

 

Now before some of you say well you can just make your deed bigger pushing thr Perimeter out further. Thay still does not stop the fact that there are 5 tiles on every side of your land which will be affected by extra decay. Its counter active anyway you want to look at it in its current state on chaos. 

 

I propose the ability to have the expansion also be an ability to reduce it to 0 if that is wanted at least only on chaos if freedomers feel this would affect them. 

[Firestarter 1,210]

+1, or at the very least a 1 tile perimeter so you can't have deeds right up to each other.

[MaurizioAM 919]

4 minutes ago, Firestarter said:

+1, or at the very least a 1 tile perimeter so you can't have deeds right up to each other.

 

How about an invisable 5 tiles and an option to enable/disable the ability to deed next to each other? Each direction with its own ability.

[ElvenElder 139]

Quote

I propose the ability to have the expansion also be an ability to reduce it to 0 if that is wanted at least only on chaos if freedomers feel this would affect them.

 

Yes ! Because we always build on perimeters and they hinder us from doing creative things like building our single deed defences and such. Really ? Is that so ?  I mean, isn't there something that you "accidentally" forgot to add to your suggestion ? Let's see:

 

Translate:

 

"We are the kingdom of Ebonaura, sidekick of Mol Rehan in Chaos. We built two deeds one next to the other cause somehow we thought this is a good defensive setup in Chaos. Now, after months of work, we finally completed our twin deeds Gnomon and Umbra and it turns out this setup sucks cause we didn't understand the game mechanics involved with perimeters. Can you now change the game mechanics so as our effort does not go wasted ?"

 

[00:23:38] <Emmanuel> Just wonder why someone would build such a huge village ....
[00:23:43] <Emmanuel> right next to another huge village ...
[00:23:55] <Emmanuel> Tons of effort -> zero gain
[00:25:04] <Nussenknack> everything has benifits
[00:25:10] <Emmanuel> nope
[00:25:22] <Emmanuel> It's a stupid thing to do
[00:25:45] <Nussenknack> come back and ill show u lol

 

That's a month ago. So eventually, you figure out that you indeed were wrong, despite the tips even your enemies gave you. But instead of admitting you messed up, you head to the forums and try to convince people to change game features ? Stop asking for changes only because you did a mistake in building your wardeeds. You complain that the bugs are not fixed but the reason they don't get fixed is because kingdoms like yours keep asking for resource consumping changes that serve absolutelly no purpose but only to correct the mistakes you did.

 

I know I come off very agressive, but lots of us are fed up by the people who constantly blame the developers for not doing their work, while on they same time, they try to trick them to work on changes that have no benefit to the game, but just try to benefit their kingdom.

 

Now as for the importance of perimeters there's a lot that can be said. In freedom, rapid decay helps get rid of inactive land. It's the only way you can get rapid decay as catapulting is prohibited in the freedom cluster. Structures of high quality take a huge time to decay without perimeters and it makes some places unhabitable for even a whole years. This can lead to ghost servers. Perimeters in Chaos are also very important. Guards and Templars agro in perimeter too and provide cheap alerting via twitter. Without perimeter, you'd have to expand a deed to huge dimensions in order to prevent stealth catapulting from outside.

 

Passing kingdom agenda as suggestions is like passing ads as sponsored content. It hurts the game, they are not suggestions, they are merelly beneficial changes to a subset of players masked as changes that will greatly affect the game positivelly. This should be considered an offence.

 

Big -1 and the topic should be locked. This person is trying to change game features to his advantage. He doesn't really care about the perimeters, all he cares about is getting his twin deeds properly defended.

Edited December 30, 2015 by ElvenElder

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

Good change, should be added.

+1

[Odynn 2,248]

Even on freedom that's something needed for the same reason, perimeter is a mess since the removal of the enclosure rule. Can't defend it properly, can't deed it as well in some case (2 deeds next to each others).

 

Wurm is a sandbox, whatever the reasons are, the game mechanism shouldn't prevent someone from managing properly their paid for land.

 

+1 for having the option to opt out of the "FREE" perimeter.

[bangzuvelis 549]

I am sorry, I see this as a big game changer. Can we reset Chaos and get that perimeter - no perimeter thing then? I guess a few people would want to change how their deeds are if they had a 0 perimeter option...

 

I mean to change suddenly something what has been here for a good few years... Mmm..

 

But then again, I am just a noob, having fun playing this game.

Edited December 30, 2015 by bangzuvelis

[MaurizioAM 919]

5 minutes ago, bangzuvelis said:

I am sorry, I see this as a big game changer. Can we reset Chaos and get that perimeter - no perimeter thing then? I guess a few people would want to change how their deeds are if they had a 0 perimeter option...

 

Why would you need a reset? Yes some things would change but nothing is stopping you from just doing it. The fact is perimeter only real purpose ilwas put in for freedom griefing prevention. But since the changes with enclosures perimeters are literally of no use at all. And the fact that tiles just outside of your deed have worse decay then wilderness is a bit ridiculous. 

 

Issle is way wrong with his comment but i wont waste breath on him. Again the truth is it does nothing but hurt active deeds and peremiters helps nothing at all for turning ruins into wilderness. The new decay based on time spent offline will handle that. 

 

 

[Ostentatio 1,970]

-4.33333333333

 

This would allow people to deed over entire regions by gluing deeds next to each other, effectively allowing them to act as one gigantic deed instead. There are valid design reasons why this is not currently allowed, and in any case where removing perimeter would be desired, you might as well just have one larger deed instead of two smaller ones and set up permissions properly.

 

46 minutes ago, Odynn said:

Even on freedom that's something needed for the same reason, perimeter is a mess since the removal of the enclosure rule. Can't defend it properly, can't deed it as well in some case (2 deeds next to each others).

 

Wurm is a sandbox, whatever the reasons are, the game mechanism shouldn't prevent someone from managing properly their paid for land.

 

+1 for having the option to opt out of the "FREE" perimeter.

 

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. Of course you "can't deed it"; it's perimeter. That's the entire point of perimeter.

 

And you can manage your paid-for land just fine; that's your deed. The free perimeter around your deed is not your deed; it is neither paid-for, nor your land. If you want it to be your "paid-for land", expand your deed. What's the trouble understanding this?

 

 

Here is an example of why mandatory perimeter is necessary: If it weren't, you could effectively gerrymander gigantic areas, controlled solely by you, without having to actually pay for most of it. For example, you could enclose a huge area with four oblong deeds, and completely control access and use of the land inside that area without having to even pay for most of it.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Ostentatio

[Cenotaph 118]

would not 1 22x44 size deed cost the exact same in upkeep as 2 22x22 deeds ?

[MaurizioAM 919]

18 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

-4.33333333333

 

This would allow people to deed over entire regions by gluing deeds next to each other, effectively allowing them to act as one gigantic deed instead. There are valid design reasons why this is not currently allowed, and in any case where removing perimeter would be desired, you might as well just have one larger deed instead of two smaller ones and set up permissions properly.

 

 

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. Of course you "can't deed it"; it's perimeter. That's the entire point of perimeter.

 

And you can manage your paid-for land just fine; that's your deed. The free perimeter around your deed is not your deed; it is neither paid-for, nor your land. If you want it to be your "paid-for land", expand your deed. What's the trouble understanding this?

 

 

Here is an example of why mandatory perimeter is necessary: If it weren't, you could effectively gerrymander gigantic areas, controlled solely by you, without having to actually pay for most of it. For example, you could enclose a huge area with four oblong deeds, and completely control access and use of the land inside that area without having to even pay for most of it.

 

There could easily be rules set and code set against allowing this. This however is the only con to allowing the change. As of right now you cant do shat with the perimeter as it speeds up decay to ACTIVE deeds as well as inactive ones. There is no need for it. 

 

Here is a simple solution to your worries so you can sleep well... 3 out of the 4 sides can have ajointing deeds if deemed wanted. There u have it a simple fix no more free land all paid for now.

Edited December 30, 2015 by MaurizioAM

[MaurizioAM 919]

3 minutes ago, Cenotaph said:

would not 1 22x44 size deed cost the exact same in upkeep as 2 22x22 deeds ?

The costs are the same land all has the same price. 

[Ostentatio 1,970]

10 minutes ago, Cenotaph said:

would not 1 22x44 size deed cost the exact same in upkeep as 2 22x22 deeds ?

 

Indeed it would. The only reason to want to destroy free perimeter is to abuse the system by doing something like this:

 

Found four very narrow deeds, and make them form a square. Say, two deeds 5x30 and two 5x20. If you position these properly so the deeds only meet at the corners, this leaves a big 20x30 area in the middle you also control access to, but which is not deeded. In effect, this gives you full and total control over 1100 tiles while only paying for 500 of them. It's clear abuse of the system, and one of the exact reasons perimeter is enforced in the first place.

 

 

7 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

 

There could easily be rules set and code set against allowing this. This however is the only con to allowing the change. As of right now you cant do shat with the perimeter as it speeds up decay to ACTIVE deeds as well as inactive ones. There is no need for it. 

 

Here is a simple solution tonyour worries so you can sleep well... 3 out of the 4 sides can have ajointing deeds if deemed wanted. There u have it a simple fix no more free land all paid for now.

 

There are other cons. It would also effectively allow you to make deeds in shapes that are currently disallowed in a more general sense, including ones that are extremely oblong, for doing things like deeding an entire coastline. Another purpose of perimeter, presumably, is to enforce at least some quasi-public space in between deeds so places like Newspring don't wind up resembling Kowloon Walled City more than anything else.

 

It also, I must emphasize, makes emphatically no sense at all for deeds to border each other directly, because then who does that tile border in the middle belong to? When two deeds share tile borders, who owns those tile borders? Normally, the border of a deed is considered part of that deed, but in this case, it's the border of both. Can either of them build fences or house walls there? How would that even work?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Ostentatio

[Cenotaph 118]

Very good point Ostentatio. Did not quite grasp it in your previous post

[ElvenElder 139]

Mister Maurizio.

 

It's a common tactic in debate, whenever you can't counter someones arguments, you get to throw insults on him to hurt his image. Well, if you don't want to waste your breath on me, I don't want your breath either cause I don't think it'll have the best of the smells either. But just incase you are just plain and simply short minded and not just passing forward kingdom agenda let me make it a bit more clear to you:

 

Part of what wins and loses wars in Chaos is mistakes. You play your strong cards but you also exploit the mistakes of your enemies. We who've chosen to fight for years in the server, did those mistakes and paid vastly by losing people, land and raids. We paid, but we learned but most importantly we took how the game works for granded and never questioned it. That's reality. On the other hand, you chose to play politics. So inevitably, when the war knock on your door, you inevitably did inexperienced mistakes, one of them being placing two deeds one next to the other, creating a perimeter gap that can be exploited since you don't get deed bonuses on this 10 tile wide area.

 

Eventually you figured out how bad this setup was. But compared to the rest of the server, that once realizes its mistakes, it fixes it, you decided to go the easy way. You came here, barelly mentioned why you are suggesting this and intentionally kept it secret that you have a mafunctioning twin deed setup in Chaos. And you have the audacity to lie to everyone pretending this is some necessary change while all you try to do here is save your ass.

 

Can you imagine how unfair that sounds to the rest of theh players of Chaos ? We've done mistakes in the past too, we corrected them though, we didnt ask for game changes. What is more, how do you know that there's no big raid plan going on that is basing its existence on the fact that your villages are vulnerable ? How unfair is it for the rest of us, to waste our time on an opportunity you try to delete by getting changes passed to the game ?

 

In your own reality, you somehow believe that first you build it, then you figure out it's wrong and then you get to change the game. Hell yea ! Can't change the deed, let's change the game. It doesnt work that way.

 

As a conclusion, I'd like to say that you have absolutely zero arguments, you constantly avoid confronting me when I expose your cunning little tricks and when you have to, you just say something smartass about your breath.

 

Grow up.

[Pandalet 1,848]

Given that the costs of two deeds next to each other with no perimeter would be the same as a single deed the same size, I'm not convinced this is necessary?  Perimeters fill a useful function, preventing griefing and holding more land than you pay for, and I don't really see that the proposed change adds anything over what's currently available.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I have no problem with a smaller perimeter, but at least 1 tile between deeds will always be needed.  Consider this: if 2 deeds are right next to each other and a wall or fence is built on the border, which deed controls that wall?  Which deed keeps the decay off the wall?  Who has the right to destroy it,?  There are many reasons besides not blocking off areas from travel to have a perimeter.

[Rasu 561]

-1 to many problems if you could border deeds like this

[Traveler777 101]

I posted the same thing several weeks ago... I wanted the option to "ally or combine East/West/North/South perimeter with..." and they would do opposite side. IN order to get rid of the gap the people could mine in between our two deeds, that is my main reason I want it.  They now have the joint deed options just take it "Remove North Perimeter" option ...nothing hard about that..little programming unless they are worried about loss of income on both deeds losing the appropriate side..outer perimeter.

+1

Edited December 30, 2015 by Traveler777

[Ostentatio 1,970]

3 minutes ago, Traveler777 said:

I posted the same thing several weeks ago... I wanted the option to "ally or combine East/West/North/South perimeter with..." and they would do opposite side. IN order to get rid of the gap the people could mine in between our two deeds, that is my main reason I want it.  They now have the joint deed options just take it "Remove North Perimeter" option ...nothing hard about that..little programming unless they are worried about loss of income on both deeds losing the appropriate side..outer perimeter.

+1

 

I brought up at least a few other issues this would not resolve.

[MaurizioAM 919]

Issle im not going to even read past the first sentence. 

 

Truth is regardless of what i think about you i answered your first questions because your comments had no merit.

 

Now to continue solutions to the same questions ive already asked myself...

 

Ostentatio you are asking the right questions looking for the hidden cons. But our debate should be based more on balance. Let me ask you what do you think is stopping people right now from being able to do the exact things your worried about? A fact is very very little. Money wise it would be cheaper to actually use the current perimeter system vs not having a perimeter.

 

Also the tile boarder is the only real question i asked myself and the only simple solution that i can see is for any ajointed deeds a 1 tile (perimeter not the same as current however) that takes the same decay as deed. 

[Aeryck 862]

I did not read all the replies and I am not a Chaos player but wouldn't perimeter serve as a way of keeping people off your land in PvP? Do People ever build temporary shelters or fences around your settlement? If not, then I see no problem with removing it on Chaos.

 

The reason perimeter exists on Freedom is to prevent people moving the edges of their settlement right up next to yours and potentially creating structures that block your structures. If we remove perimeter we are going to have a lot more complaints about people blocking others' deeds. I am all for giving the option to have 0 perimeter but I don't like taking away the decision completely.

 

30 minutes ago, Pandalet said:

 I don't really see that the proposed change adds anything over what's currently available.

 

Removing perimeter would offer an advantage to multiple deed owners and alliances. For people who want a separate deed for their docks, or for a farm or some such it is annoying having a neutral zone in between where things can easily be set down and forgotten and inevitably lost or liberated.

[Wulfgarr 810]

3 hours ago, ElvenElder said:

 

Yes ! Because we always build on perimeters and they hinder us from doing creative things like building our single deed defences and such. Really ? Is that so ?  I mean, isn't there something that you "accidentally" forgot to add to your suggestion ? Let's see:

 

Translate:

 

"We are the kingdom of Ebonaura, sidekick of Mol Rehan in Chaos. We built two deeds one next to the other cause somehow we thought this is a good defensive setup in Chaos. Now, after months of work, we finally completed our twin deeds Gnomon and Umbra and it turns out this setup sucks cause we didn't understand the game mechanics involved with perimeters. Can you now change the game mechanics so as our effort does not go wasted ?"

 

[00:23:38] <Emmanuel> Just wonder why someone would build such a huge village ....
[00:23:43] <Emmanuel> right next to another huge village ...
[00:23:55] <Emmanuel> Tons of effort -> zero gain
[00:25:04] <Nussenknack> everything has benifits
[00:25:10] <Emmanuel> nope
[00:25:22] <Emmanuel> It's a stupid thing to do
[00:25:45] <Nussenknack> come back and ill show u lol

 

That's a month ago. So eventually, you figure out that you indeed were wrong, despite the tips even your enemies gave you. But instead of admitting you messed up, you head to the forums and try to convince people to change game features ? Stop asking for changes only because you did a mistake in building your wardeeds. You complain that the bugs are not fixed but the reason they don't get fixed is because kingdoms like yours keep asking for resource consumping changes that serve absolutelly no purpose but only to correct the mistakes you did.

 

I know I come off very agressive, but lots of us are fed up by the people who constantly blame the developers for not doing their work, while on they same time, they try to trick them to work on changes that have no benefit to the game, but just try to benefit their kingdom.

 

Now as for the importance of perimeters there's a lot that can be said. In freedom, rapid decay helps get rid of inactive land. It's the only way you can get rapid decay as catapulting is prohibited in the freedom cluster. Structures of high quality take a huge time to decay without perimeters and it makes some places unhabitable for even a whole years. This can lead to ghost servers. Perimeters in Chaos are also very important. Guards and Templars agro in perimeter too and provide cheap alerting via twitter. Without perimeter, you'd have to expand a deed to huge dimensions in order to prevent stealth catapulting from outside.

 

Passing kingdom agenda as suggestions is like passing ads as sponsored content. It hurts the game, they are not suggestions, they are merelly beneficial changes to a subset of players masked as changes that will greatly affect the game positivelly. This should be considered an offence.

 

Big -1 and the topic should be locked. This person is trying to change game features to his advantage. He doesn't really care about the perimeters, all he cares about is getting his twin deeds properly defended.

You really are mad at MR and blame them for everything? Or atleast try to drag them everywhere.... That is sad.. really sad..

Oh and why not, +1 to OP.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Wulfgarr

[ElvenElder 139]

Out of all the kingdoms in Chaos, only you and Ebonaura are always requesting changes through suggestions and emails. One can't help himself but point out the similarities my friend.

[Wulfgarr 810]

Just now, ElvenElder said:

Out of all the kingdoms in Chaos, only you and Ebonaura are always requesting changes through suggestions and emails. One can't help himself but point out the similarities my friend.

k, if you say so.