Off-Deed Building Decay

[Mirax 117]

Off-Deed Building Decay...is once again bugged.

 

Since the last round of this bug, I've repaired a ton of longhouses and structures off-deed back to <10 damage.  They're back up to 30-50 damage in the last week or two (these are all 85-90ql stone structures).

 

A gatehouse I built less than 2 months ago at 93ql walls is up to 30 damage.

 

This is consistent in all places checked - both buildings I am the owner of and not, my own and others.  Once again broken.

 

The last bug like this cost me several days of playtime to repair and over 20k repair bricks.  I can't do it again - please, when you fix, run an update on the database to delete 30-50 damage off of off-deed buildings...or just all buildings, since on-deed don't take decay in most cases.  Do something, this is crazy sad.  Or a good ploy to have us drop more deeds...which I would gladly do if I could.  ALLOW 1 TILE PERIM DEEDS OR FIX THIS INSANE BUG.  I do not want to spend all my game time every day making repair bricks and repairing house walls that, prior to this bug, would accrue 10 damage PER CALENDAR YEAR and have, in the last 3 months, accrued 7-8 YEARS worth of damage because of these bugs.  Not fair, not cool, frustrating this loyal customer.

[Firestarter 1,210]

See also http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/136047-perimeter-decay-stone-house/

[Kegan 3,926]

33 minutes ago, Mirax said:

I do not want to spend all my game time every day making repair bricks and repairing house walls that, prior to this bug, would accrue 10 damage PER CALENDAR YEAR and have, in the last 3 months, accrued 7-8 YEARS worth of damage because of these bugs.  Not fair, not cool, frustrating this loyal customer.

This is the issue the 10 damage per year as you say is way to low and was why they adjusted it but they do know that there is an issue and are running tests on the test server now to figuring out a solution that is good for everyone. 

[Kianga 219]

Why isn't the current damage which is knowingly being dealt out every single day turned OFF WHILE testing is going on, this is going to cost hours, days and weeks of repairing by tons of players again!

And as to decay being too low as it was - I disagree, most certainly where lower QL buildings are concerned it was fine as it was (for off-deed or in-perimiter houses which are actively owned).  If you are waiting on such buildings then i.m.o. it's the fact of the waiting that is the problem, not the decay - either don't wait on those and go do other things, or learn to be very patient, or talk to the owner to see if you can change things toward the way you would like it to be...

Buildings should go fast only if owner has been inactive (away from server) for some time. Only at that point faster decay should start kicking in (and sure, if it then goes in a few weeks, no trouble... but do NOT put more weight on everyone elses shoulders who are actively playing - unless you want less players of course) ('you' directed in general dev-direction here, not at any player in particular).

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

5 hours ago, Kegan said:

This is the issue the 10 damage per year as you say is way to low and was why they adjusted it 

 

I thought the problem was abandoned deeds in someone else's perimeter which is a completely different issue.

This building was not ABANDONED, it was not from from a POPPED DEED, it was not owned by an absent player, and it was not in SOMEONE ELSE'S PERIMETER.

For years we have had perfectly functioning code to deal with each of those issues. If THAT code needed tweaks, then please tweak THAT code,  And for gods sake, TEST IT FIRST.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with Kianga, please shut OFF this insane damage rate while you actually test on test server.

My guess however is they cheerfully mangled the code then went off on a three week break and will not be actually fixing things anytime soon. 

I have already had some of my perimeter buildings pop, others I have just given up on to concentrate on saving what few I can.

More likely, I will just let all my deeds disband and go back to WU where some poorly broken code is less likely to destroy months of my work. I imagine I will not be the only one doing this.

This has severely mangled any confidence I had in WO's development team. 

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE DEVS. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[Mirax 117]

Aye, at least my issue, seen on Epic, is the same as it was a few weeks/months back (hard to remember exactly) when stone building walls of 80+ql were taking 6, 8 damage a day vs. the usual like 0.03.  Regardless of too slow or too fast, that was acknowledged as an error and fixed - but now it's happening again, I think since the last update the other day.

 

For this particular thread, perim has no bearing on it, nor does player activity, talking about buildings in the clear, off-deed, not in perim, with active owners on daily.  The rate has jumped 100-200x what it was, just as it did the last time prior to them fixing it back to "normal".

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Actually last time decay was borked was ACCIDENTAL, from when they changed the permission system, removed writs from the game and inadvertently made all off deed building owners "absent", subjecting them to escalated "abandoned" decay rates. I can get the date for you if that helps refresh your memory, but I believe it was in late October. They acknowledged and fixed that pretty fast by turning off escalation and having only normal decay rates, supposedly while they studied the issue. 

 

 

This time, it was actually code changed PURPOSELY by devs in response to a few players who complained that a couple of old abandoned buildings that they had perimetered over, were decaying too slow.

So Tich said she was changing the code to escalate the decay again. It was reported many times that the changes seemed severely broken but there has been no response from the devs since.

So to fix a small "perimeter" decay issue  they have intentionally renabled the insane decay rates which ignore quality levels or ownership issues,  on ALL off deed properties.  

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[Ehizellbob 885]

I was going to take a large maul to some off deed stone walls that were around 45ql that have been busy rotting away for the last couple of months in my perimeter to slowly be converted to hedges. Gave me time to lazily gather the sprout I'd need. In the last 2 weeks 50% of what's left have dropped. I'm not saying thats a bad thing but they certainly shouldn't take dmg that fast.

 

I built an off deed 1x1 cabin about a week and a half ago, with a 3x5 wooden fence around that to give myself a rice farm as the deed isn't close enough to water. The house walls were improved to around 50ql, which should keep me from needing to repair it every week. Rather annoyingly it's had to be repaired 3 times since I built it, yet the wooden fences next to it which are only mid 30's to 40ql have next to no damage...

 

suppose I should quit complaining here and go repair my other gatehouses before they fall down again...

[Eobersig 1,006]

Yes, off-deed decay has issues again.

 

There are also conflicting opinions about how fast off-deed buildings should decay. Personally I believe the current mechanic is rather poor and needs a re-think. Suggestion thread coming in.

[Jaz 2,665]

 

8 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

I agree with Kianga, please shut OFF this insane damage rate while you actually test on test server.

MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE DEVS. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I now sit an hour a day to keep the various buildings our alliance have ON OWN PERIMETER or next to it to keep from falling.

It is simply not acceptable to have a 65ql stone wall to take 3+ damage each day!

Do something fast, it is more than annoying I would rather spend my times on useful projects I had in mind for this relaxed period of the year.

Do you really think that all buildings should be on deed? Deed it or lose it? Not even possible in many cases. You can think I'm a freeloader wanting my houses stay off deed to hog land but in reality currently my family pays the upkeep for 15 deeds around the servers (if I don't forget any for now), none of which are trader deeds, and I'm keeping alive 4 deeds of a good friend who can't even log in to Wurm for months.

 

If it stays as it is now and it is on purpose I'll need to reconsider wanting to keep my villages on any other server than my "home" server. Won't worth the time invested in mere repairs.

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Jaz

[Dorian 865]

I'm normally a happy go lucky goofball as some of you know, but Wurm is making me mad and sad now.

I missed impalong on Indy because of the off deed decay rate, I spent all of the holiday mining, making bricks, cutting down trees, making planks, and repairing my off deed buildings.=(

I had enough silver in my account to have Flunky make a small deed to save my farm.  Becoming a Mayor and having a deed should be a fun and happy time, but I'm a bit mad that I was forced to do that in order to save my newly redesigned home.

I'm now forced to let some buildings in our alliance auto decay away as I can no longer keep up with the repairs, I can't mine fast enough..ok maybe I can but lord am I bored with it LOL.

3.0  dmg per day for 70ql stone walls is insane. With this change anyone trying to have a nice off deed home will get more frustrated with repairing it than they were without having the ability to fight off a large rat without death.

I truly feel sorry for people who are not in wurm during the holidays to spend time with family and friends, who will come back to find their off deed buildings gone, and most likely all their supplies within scavenged away.

..end of rant..

[Alectrys 2,040]

Off deed decay was fixed with the patch this morning, per Tich.  Please check your buildings today to set a baseline to verify the fix has worked.

[Dorian 865]

7 minutes ago, Alectrys said:

Off deed decay was fixed with the patch this morning, per Tich.  Please check your buildings today to set a baseline to verify the fix has worked.

I'll repair a wall and do my logging and let you know ASAP.  Thanks Alectrys!

[Jaz 2,665]

Sounds great, I hope it works, will of course test it as well.

 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

15 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

 

This time, it was actually code changed PURPOSELY by devs in response to a few players who complained that a couple of old abandoned buildings that they had perimetered over, were decaying too slow.

 

 

 

 

Perimeter decay for unwanted buildings should not take months to achieve destruction. 

 

Then there are players who abuse deeds by using buildings to secure extra area without cost of deeding extra area, then there are players who have no choice but to make use of tight perimeters for more space.

 

There is certainly a complex balance that needs to be worked out, but I have no idea how to figure the math on this one.

 

Testing needs to be done on finished buildings of all types, before changes to code is released, maybe you need a test server with an accelerated clock.

 

Unfinished plans of all types. (these seem to be currently missed) I know of buildings now with 1 brick in one wall that I have drove by for months on end.

 

Buildings owned by mayor in perimeter, buildings not owned by mayor.

 

Off deed buildings with active players and off deed buildings owned by inactive players.

 

If you need help testing this I will give the test server a try if you want.

 

[Mirax 117]

15 hours ago, Eobersig said:

Yes, off-deed decay has issues again.

 

There are also conflicting opinions about how fast off-deed buildings should decay. Personally I believe the current mechanic is rather poor and needs a re-think. Suggestion thread coming in.

 

While I don't disagree, I don't want to cloud the specific issue at hand, either.  

 

That said, it definitely irks me as someone/part of a deed who spent hundreds of hours building longhouses around our deed - specifically after extensive testing of decay vs. ql vs. material type - to think all that work would now be rendered in need of repairing on a weekly or even monthly basis on the scale we built it.  While I certainly understand the Freedom cluster has restrictions and therefore may want increased off-deed decay rates, and some on all servers may wish for slower, faster, or no change to decay rates - I think from a game case perspective, you're not luring more people into this game if they have to spend most of their time repairing walls, and restricting the ability to drop small deeds to prevent decay (due to 5 tile minimum perimeter vs. 1, which has been suggested many times).  It's lose-lose right now on the retention and filling Code Club coffer fronts.

[Mirax 117]

10 hours ago, Alectrys said:

Off deed decay was fixed with the patch this morning, per Tich.  Please check your buildings today to set a baseline to verify the fix has worked.

\o/ thanks for the update!

 

[Dorian 865]

Some initial results are in!  After 24 hours, the stone walls I repaired yesterday in my Yacht Club, which is a building not on a deed or on a deed perimeter, has no visible damage.  So the super-speedy off deed decay has indeed been fixed.  \o/

Thanks!

[Faustus 0]

mis-post

Edited January 1, 2016 by Faustus

[JakeRivers 2,921]

On 12/30/2015 at 10:52 AM, Dorian said:

Some initial results are in!  After 24 hours, the stone walls I repaired yesterday in my Yacht Club, which is a building not on a deed or on a deed perimeter, has no visible damage.  So the super-speedy off deed decay has indeed been fixed.  \o/

Thanks!

 

One day is not enough to know if this has been fixed, unless you inspected every single wall and had zero damage. Decay ticks are random and a wall may decay but not show the decay for a few days.

[Anabel 26]

I hope it works!!!!

Edited January 2, 2016 by Anabel

[Mirax 117]

I'll report back tomorrow if it's not fixed, at least on Serenity - made and used over 3k repair bricks in the last 48 hours and feel like stabbing myself in the brain right now.  Great way to start the new year.  Another 12k to make and use to repair everything - no compensation (no, I don't want sleep bonus) and no retroactive fix is pissing me off.

 

I understand the forums would implode with a global deduction of 50 damage off all structures, but that seems like a very simple SQL Update query to the database for 15-20 class types (stone wall, stone window, plain stone wall, wooden wall, timber framed wall, etc.) and far more reasonable given the accumulated 60-80 damage between the bug a month or two ago and this one now vis a vis decay.

 

90ql+ stone buildings, mind you, that have taken a half decade or more RL time damage in the course of a few days because of these bugs, and now take hundreds of hours of game time to repair, in which I'm not playing the game or having fun.  

 

DEED IT?  Yes, I would - if you allow 1 tile perim deeds instead of mandating 5 as minimum.  Impossible for a variety of reasons otherwise.  GLADLY I will pay you 8 euros a month or whatever it works out to not have to go through this kind of torture, if you give me the option to do that!

[Dorian 865]

On 1/1/2016 at 7:20 AM, JakeRivers said:

 

One day is not enough to know if this has been fixed, unless you inspected every single wall and had zero damage. Decay ticks are random and a wall may decay but not show the decay for a few days.

Oh I know, that's why I said initial results we in, before I was getting damage in less than 24 hours on everything.

 Since that post however I've noticed on average a tick of 3 damage on every off deed wall.  I posted those findings to one of the now SIX forum topics regarding the decay.  It's hard keeping all these posts straight in the new forums.  

[Mirax 117]

DEFINITELY not fixed.  Tick of ~3 damage on 90ql walls in less than 24 hours since they were repaired.

 

Also having an effect on floors as well, 50 damage on off-deed marble slab floors that are 65ql and less than 2 months old.

 

Either damage will need to be reverted on all house wall/floor/roof types by a significant amount (seems like approximately 3 damage regardless of QL per tick/per day), or GMs will need to be allowed to auto-repair buildings upon ticketing or something.  It is not acceptable to expect us to churn out, in some cases, tens of thousands of repair bricks and spend dozens of hours of game time over the next several weeks repairing, for a screw-up on the code end, that we had no way of controlling or preventing.

 

This is not a way to retain customers.  It takes a lot to piss me off, but this is crossing a line.

 

{Begin Enrage Sequence}

Edited January 3, 2016 by Mirax

[Firestarter 1,210]

15 minutes ago, Mirax said:

Either damage will need to be reverted on all house wall/floor/roof types by a significant amount (seems like approximately 3 damage regardless of QL per tick/per day), or GMs will need to be allowed to auto-repair buildings upon ticketing or something.  It is not acceptable to expect us to churn out, in some cases, tens of thousands of repair bricks and spend dozens of hours of game time over the next several weeks repairing, for a screw-up on the code end, that we had no way of controlling or preventing.

Another good way to do this would be to allow (for a few weeks) players to repair walls without needing bricks. Just a right click action similar to repairing a tool.