Off-Deed Building Decay

[Audrel 2,223]

I know this is not the case or was not the case until the past few days maybe as I suppose there was a fix, we will see if the fix actually worked after letting it sit for a week, if I bother to log in an check it.

 

We have an alliance bridge that one face of a support building was 1 tile off deed. It rotted in less than a month to insane levels. The writ owner/deed owner was on every single day working on the bridge while the building was rotting out from under it. The damage was noticed and repaired in time so the bridge was saved. But the fact of the matter is that this is a high QL walled building of an active player on a project that is less than a month old that needed massive repair work done it. It's deeded over now. 

 

When I first deeded my spot, I waited weeks for individual buildings to fall and slowly expanded into the voids. It took well over a month to expand up and over the hill to the extents we have deeded today. This was waiting for medium QL wooden buildings. The stone buildings on top of the hill took much longer. That's just how it worked. You waited it out or you moved. Perimetering the buildings sped it up. But I guess that's not fast enough these days. 

 

I, for one, abandoned repairing the supports of an off-deed bridge I made. I'm not playing Repairs Online. Someone else can waste materials on this tripe. The more crap like this happens, the less I am even online. But since everything off-deed has rotted and vanished and I have months and months of upkeep, I guess I'm good to go. 

[Alectrys 2,040]

As a reminder, please keep this thread for data collection at this time.  It's very difficult to monitor actual results.

 

I'm updating my post here with daily data.  So far, an off deed house with the owner logging in daily seems to be fixed:  http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/136684-off-deed-building-decay/&do=findComment&comment=1403435

 

I have not tested owner being absent for 90 days as I don't have that setup on the live servers.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

[22:21:16] QL=55.453335, dam=0.05409954

 

That's a day's worth now.

 

I just had an idea. Why can't templars repair perimeter buildings. You'd have to assign them to repair, so that they're not repairing buildings you're waiting to rot out. And maybe they can also chip away at buildings you don't want. I'd re-hire templars on the deeds where I dropped them if they could do this.

[Aeryck 862]

I am waiting on 2 buildings that I believe are owned by the same inactive player. One began losing walls yesterday while the other has not taken more than a .20 damage per wall since Monday. Prior to Monday they were steadily taking 6 damage per day on my perimeter. No idea why the second, which is right next to the first has stopped taking damage. Someone mentioned entering it frequently could reduce decay, not sure.

 

They are the same ql, roughly the same size and had nearly the same damage. The second one stopped at 81 while the other kept right on at 6 per day.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Aeryck

[Mirax 117]

At least on Serenity/Epic, decay is back to the pre-bug levels (i.e., beginning of December levels).  Approximately 0.03 damage/day on 85-95ql stone walls/windows/doors.  Not 100x that like it was during the bug period.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

2 hours ago, Aeryck said:

I am waiting on 2 buildings that I believe are owned by the same inactive player. One began losing walls yesterday while the other has not taken more than a .20 damage per wall since Monday. Prior to Monday they were steadily taking 6 damage per day on my perimeter. No idea why the second, which is right next to the first has stopped taking damage. Someone mentioned entering it frequently could reduce decay, not sure.

 

They are the same ql, roughly the same size and had nearly the same damage. The second one stopped at 81 while the other kept right on at 6 per day.

 

That is the problem, you don't know for sure who own's each building, so if one player is gone and the other is active it will slow the decay down.

Also are they made of the same materials and same quality of construction?

Edited January 9, 2016 by JakeRivers

[Aeryck 862]

6 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

That is the problem, you don't know for sure who own's each building, so if one player is gone and the other is active it will slow the decay down.

Also are they made of the same materials and same quality of construction?

Same ql and construction. Roughly the same size, same number of levels and I am nearly positive they are made by the same player.

[Kegan 3,926]

I would suggest adding in an examine line to the buildings that show how long the owner has been gone for something like..

 

[20:55:13] Material plain stone
[20:55:13] You see a wall.
[20:55:13] Owner last seen x days ago.
[20:55:13] QL=82.86948, dam=0.0
 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Kegan

[Aeryck 862]

It sort of seems like the damage is being applied across all of the owners buildings somewhat evenly now. He owns a dozen or more buildings and ones that were not decaying are now falling apart and ones that were farther along seem to be decaying less. Maybe my brain is just decaying, but it seems like weird things are happening.

 

Is the "buildings decay slower if entered by others" rule for sure, or just a rumor? Because I have been obsessively entering the building to check on it.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

the slower rate may then be due to the building being built at a later date, I have seen this before

[Telurius 52]

Decay rates for off-deed house walls that aren't abandoned and not in perimeter seem to be back to normal, using normal QL-based decay.  Specifically, they take ( perishability / EffectiveQL ) damage per decay tick, where perishability is 10 for wooden house walls and 3 for stone house walls.  Timber framed house walls used to have a perishability of 10, but it's been a while since I tested them.  All floor/roof types I have data for seemed to have a perishability of 10 also, but I do not have data for some floor/roof types and it's been a while since I last tested it for floors/roofs.  Here is some data for wooden and stone house walls since the fix, as well as what my decay calculator predicts for their decay patterns:

 

Listed QL = 18.935068	Post-Fix Wooden House Wall Data	Decay Calculator Predictions
Initial	Damage = 0.0	Damage = 0.0
After Decay Tick 1	Damage = 0.52812064	Damage = 0.52812064, Effective QL = 18.835068
After Decay Tick 2	Damage = 1.0590452	Damage = 1.0590452, Effective QL = 18.734537

 

Listed QL = 35.237965	Post-Fix Stone House Wall Data	Decay Calculator Predictions
Initial	Damage = 0.0	Damage = 0.0
After Decay Tick 1	Damage = 0.08513545	Damage = 0.08513545, Effective QL = 35.207962
After Decay Tick 2	Damage = 0.17034346	Damage = 0.17034346, Effective QL = 35.17794
After Decay Tick 3	Damage = 0.25562418	Damage = 0.25562418, Effective QL = 35.14789

 

As I've said previously numerous times in-game, it appeared that the problem was all houses off-deed were being treated as abandoned.  While I don't have an exact formula for abandoned decay, I do have some limited data on it, dating as far back as 2011.  Here is some data from my 2011 observations on abandoned decay of stone house walls, as well as some data on off-deed stone house wall decay (from a house that shouldn't have been flagged as abandoned) during the problem:

 

Listed QL = 31.510109	2011 Abandoned Stone House Wall Data
Initial	Damage = 2.700985
After Decay Tick 1	Damage = 5.8019485
After Decay Tick 2	Damage = 8.906345
After Decay Tick 3	Damage = 12.0144205
After Decay Tick 4	Damage = 15.126449
After Decay Tick 5	Damage = 18.242735

 

Listed QL = 35.243835	Recent Pre-Fix (Bugged) Stone House Wall Data
Initial	Damage = 0.0
After Decay Tick 1	Damage = 3.0877538
After Decay Tick 2	Damage = 6.178393
After Decay Tick 3	Damage = 9.272116
After Decay Tick 4	Damage = 12.369144

 

I don't have any data on decay of houses that are abandoned or in perimeter since the fix, so I can't comment on whether they're decaying properly or not.  Whether non-abandoned house decay rates outside perimeter are what they should be or not is debatable (and has been debated for years), but I can confirm that for wooden house walls they're back to the decay rate they've been using since at least 2010 and for stone house walls they're back to the decay rate they've been using since at least 2011.  I don't have any timber framed walls at the moment, as I personally don't consider them worth the effort/materials to make and only make a few periodically for testing purposes, though I'll probably get around to making and testing some in the next week or so.

 

For those who are curious about my decay calculator, you can find a link to the current version of it (as well as some of my other tools and resource maps) in the following thread:

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/112192-telurian-tools/

[LorraineJ 1,099]

15 hours ago, Telurius said:

 

For those who are curious about my decay calculator, you can find a link to the current version of it (as well as some of my other tools and resource maps) in the following thread:

 

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/112192-telurian-tools/

 

 

 

Do you have a repairs calculator? I'm always torn if I should use the Vynora mend, or repair with my best handyman.

 

[Aeryck 862]

Now the buildings which aren't even on my perimeter are taking more damage than the one building in my perimeter. All perimeter buildings are nearly completely destroyed. This one building though sits at 69 damage and has taken no more than 1 damage in almost 2 weeks. I find it VERY unlikely that this one building is owned by a different player. Does anyone know for sure if entering a building resets abandoned status and for how long?

[Dorian 865]

From what I understand from studying the multiple posts regarding the latest decay fixings and buggings, building that are not in a deed, whether it be in a perimeter, or just out in the open, should take an accelerated amount of decay when the owner has not been on the same server (or any wurm online server) for an extended period of time.  

A building in Wurm is considered abandoned when the owner has not logged into Wurm, and now when the owner has not logged into the same server the building is on, for a long time.  I've never heard, in the past or in relation to the latest decay fix/bug, that entering a building resets anything.

Even though we no longer have writs for buildings, and the new permissions make it easier to share the management of a building, there is still only one owner of any building, and that is the person the accelerated abandonment decay ticks should go against.

 

[Telurius 52]

I built a small house with a few timber framed walls of varying types off-deed not in perimeter and observed their decay a bit to make sure they were decaying properly.  They appear to be following the expected decay pattern, taking normal QL-based decay with a perishability of 10, as this sample from my data shows:

 

Listed QL = 13.797505	Post-Fix Timber Framed House Wall Data	Decay Calculator Predictions
Initial	Damage = 0.0	Damage = 0.0
After Decay Tick 1	Damage = 0.72476876	Damage = 0.72476876, Effective QL = 13.697505
After Decay Tick 2	? (missed this tick)	Damage = 1.4548287, Effective QL = 13.596776
After Decay Tick 3	Damage = 2.1902971	Damage = 2.1902971, Effective QL = 13.495299
After Decay Tick 4	Damage = 2.9312959	Damage = 2.9312959, Effective QL = 13.393059
After Decay Tick 5	Damage = 3.6779513	Damage = 3.6779513, Effective QL = 13.29004
After Decay Tick 6	Damage = 4.4303946	Damage = 4.4303946, Effective QL = 13.186221

 

I also noticed that with the new permissions system it's now possible to give a house to someone without them having to accept or even being online.  This might make it quicker/easier to gather data on decay for abandoned houses, but that will require more looking into.

 

On 1/11/2016 at 3:02 AM, LorraineJ said:

 

 

Do you have a repairs calculator? I'm always torn if I should use the Vynora mend, or repair with my best handyman.

 

 

No, I don't have a repair calculator.  Repairing actions that don't use materials are far more complicated than decay, especially with both the repair and skill ticks occurring throughout the action.  I'm not even sure if it would be possible to make an accurate repair calculator.  In particular, if the skills at the start of the action are used for all repair ticks throughout the action and there is no randomness to the QL/damage changes per repair tick, it should be possible to make an accurate calculator.  If each repair tick uses skills at the time of that repair tick or there's any randomness to the QL/damage changes per repair tick, it will be impossible to make a completely accurate calculator, though it still might be possible to calculate upper and lower bounds on what the listed QL could be reduced to.  However, it would require a huge amount of data, more than is likely to be gathered in any reasonable period of time without examining the code.  I do not have Wurm Unlimited myself, but perhaps someone with it will make such a tool, though it will need to be tested with Wurm Online data for accuracy, as repairing could have differences between the two.

 

On 1/11/2016 at 8:48 AM, Aeryck said:

Now the buildings which aren't even on my perimeter are taking more damage than the one building in my perimeter. All perimeter buildings are nearly completely destroyed. This one building though sits at 69 damage and has taken no more than 1 damage in almost 2 weeks. I find it VERY unlikely that this one building is owned by a different player. Does anyone know for sure if entering a building resets abandoned status and for how long?

 

Players other than the owner entering houses hasn't affected their abandoned status in the past as far as I know (Some of the abandoned houses I've observed in the past were open to the public and personally entered by me.), though that's no guarantee it won't in the future.  To my knowledge, it goes by how long it's been since the owner logged into the server the house is on, with houses on servers where the owner has been away for longer than 1.5 real months being flagged as abandoned.  I'm not aware of any obvious indicator as to when they're flagged as abandoned, other than the change in the formula used for damage per decay tick (If you're paying close attention to the damage they're taking, the difference is usually pretty obvious when they get flagged as abandoned.).  If the player is active on the server, but somewhere far away from the house, it won't get flagged as abandoned, even if nobody is using it.

[Wurmhole 3,650]

From what Telurius is saying about what defines "abandoned", I made a bad choice on who should hold the writs.  I was using my primary deed holder to hold all writs, but it is just a F2P alt (formerly prem to preserve him from deletions).  I don't need to use him often and he goes offline for months at times.  So I just need to transfer all building ownership to the alt I play the most, or have the deed/writ holder log in every couple weeks.  Guess that explains why all my off deed bldgs poofed or nearly poofed.  Lost the wooden QL70s, but the stones barely survived.

 

[Sin 220]

On 1/3/2016 at 9:35 PM, Brash_Endeavors said:

I wash my hands of Wurm Online for good.

Brash NOOOOOOOOOO please stay with us i remember when i started playing wurm about 6 years ago i couldnt launch the game and thanks to your help i managed to get it working! You have been of great help to wurm community =) 

PS. i still wonder why arent you a GM with all that knowledge, the current gm's really look like they are joking with us, fix one thing and break another 2 that worked just fine

[Cecci 1,609]

She's been in my head several days now also, I want my Brash fix in forums daily

[Sin 220]

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