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Steveleeb

Lapis Lazuli

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Lazurite, blue dye.
Blue is a word many languages lack, because of its to-hand rarity.
although woad was in use by many tribal cultures, this is the mineral that made the colour truly accessible.

we all know our dye/paint system needs some love.. without disrespecting effort spent.
woad is a crying agony.


lapis-2.jpg

Edited by Steveleeb

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It probably depends on the part of the world.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_dye

Natural dyes are dyes or colorants derived from plants, invertebrates, or minerals. The majority of natural dyes are vegetable dyes from plant sources—roots, berries, bark, leaves, and wood—and other organic sources such as fungi and lichens.
Archaeologists have found evidence of textile dyeing dating back to the Neolithic period. In China, dyeing with plants, barks and insects has been traced back more than 5,000 years.  The essential process of dyeing changed little over time. Typically, the dye material is put in a pot of water and then the textiles to be dyed are added to the pot, which is heated and stirred until the color is transferred. Textile fibre may be dyed before spinning ("dyed in the wool"), but most textiles are "yarn-dyed" or "piece-dyed" afterweaving. Many natural dyes require the use of chemicals called mordants to bind the dye to the textile fibres; tannin from oak galls, salt, natural alum, vinegar, and ammonia from stale urine were used by early dyers. Many mordants, and some dyes themselves, produce strong odors, and large-scale dyeworks were often isolated in their own districts.
Throughout history, people have dyed their textiles using common, locally available materials, but scarce dyestuffs that produced brilliant and permanent colors such as the natural invertebrate dyes, Tyrian purple and crimson kermes, became highly prized luxury items in the ancient and medieval world. Plant-based dyes such as woad (Isatis tinctoria), indigo, saffron, and madder were raised commercially and were important trade goods in the economies of Asia and Europe.

 

So in this wikipedia article that mentions dyes from plants, inverebrates and minerals, woad is cited as an important trade good for dying but Lazurite seems to be more in non-eurpoean areas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazurite

 

Woad is also highlighted in a lot of other articles on Medieval age textile dyes (as opposed to oil painting pigments) such as this one:

http://www.jennydean.co.uk/index.php/dyes-of-the-celts/

So Woad may not be anything Wurm devs need feel ashamed of!

I have never felt that Wurm "needed" to be purely  Medieval European in its "lore" but it's true that seems the basis of most Wurm crops etc. 

I have made a pitch before for alternate coloring ingame including using mushrooms as a natural dye

One thing we all agree on though, Wurm dyes and coloring need more love!

Especially as we gear up for WURM FASHION WEEK!

 

PS: here is an interesting article that examines many coloration techniques and has an entire section on BLUE! Although it seems woad maybe be more "indigo" blue-black than a pure blue, and not a particularly pretty shade:

http://www.jcsparks.com/painted/pigment-chem.html#Blues

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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very informative
Yes, if not for the Silk Road, we would have probably never seen lapis in the west until relatively recently.

Still. imo  Woad is not accessible enough.

Black is the hardest dye to produce and I've never seen an acorn above q30.
Woad shouldn't be as difficult to retrieve nor should it cost as much to purchase.

What about Indigo carmine?

 

Edited by Steveleeb

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41 minutes ago, Steveleeb said:

very informative
Yes, if not for the Silk Road, we would have probably never seen lapis in the west until relatively recently.

Still. imo  Woad is not accessible enough.

Black is the hardest dye to produce and I've never seen an acorn above q30.
Woad shouldn't be as difficult to retrieve nor should it cost as much to purchase.

What about Indigo carmine?

Judging by the complete absence of +1's i guess i stand alone :P
 

 

the question is, why don't we get botanize an item to plant these kind of herbs and plants in? We should be quite able to plant all plants the game knows. maybe to make it less common bound these specific herbs ot speocific locations, like Next to a ###### tree grows X and Y only next to 3 trees,

 

Also, Am I the only one who ever wondered why acorns can't grow oak trees and not be harvested form oak trees? ther are usually laods of acons around oak trees in RL.

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>> Black is the hardest dye to produce and I've never seen an acorn above q30.

 

People who master dying/natural substance (maybe it was Headhunter?) say even a super high quality  black dye still comes out dull and grey, there is no real "black" in the game.

 

Woad is easiest to find I think along shorelines.

 

Acorn is easiest to forage around an Oak tree. I agree they should be able to plant / harvest with oak trees.

 

Walnuts could also be used for lovely natutral shades. I would like more and more and more options for dying. 

 

So I meant to +1 :D

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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Incredibly interesting article brash.

 

Honestly, I don't think lapis lazuli is necessary, there's a skill requirement for all resources, butchering for cochineal, mining for zinc/copper/iron and botanising for acorns and woad, which isn't too hard once you start looking at it as a skill based action, butchering with 20 skill wont get you many high ql pieces, same with botanising.

 

With 60+ botanising i regularly get 50-70ql materials, and im slowly creeping up to higher ql.

 

Long story short, I think the woad works, we dont need a new method.

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Increase woad in botanizing n foraging I say. But LL via gems for new jewelry options would be inviting 

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There is also another issue that needs to be addressed.  In order to see the glow on rare items, you need the GLSL Shader Support set to Core, but in order to see the full color from dyes you need to disable it.  This is especially annoying with items painted black or white, where they just show up as brighter or darker instead of black or white, but it also makes the other colors paler than they should be.  If the art team can fix this problem so rarity glow and colors can be seen properly, I would be really happy.

Edited by Vroomfondel

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ok, let us grow woad!

there.

you think the ancient celts wondered the Highlands foraging on the off chance they found woad and their skill got it out of the ground in one piece?

nay! they grew it.

Edited by Steveleeb

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On 1.12.2015 00:28:52, Archaed said:

Incredibly interesting article brash.

 

Honestly, I don't think lapis lazuli is necessary, there's a skill requirement for all resources, butchering for cochineal, mining for zinc/copper/iron and botanising for acorns and woad, which isn't too hard once you start looking at it as a skill based action, butchering with 20 skill wont get you many high ql pieces, same with botanising.

 

With 60+ botanising i regularly get 50-70ql materials, and im slowly creeping up to higher ql.

 

Long story short, I think the woad works, we dont need a new method.

 

well, the quantity heavily differs, because woad and coinche... the red stuff, is rare due to having to prog to appear or the mob even to exist (or does someone breed cavebugs for the sole purpose of making red dye?)  While copper and Zinc basically are a fixed source of hundreds and thousends of color attemps.

 

14 hours ago, Steveleeb said:

ok, let us grow woad!

there.

you think the ancient celts wondered the Highlands foraging on the off chance they found woad and their skill got it out of the ground in one piece?

nay! they grew it.

 

that generally, sassafras and basil? It's like finding 4 leaf clovers

 

So many possible ways, like planting blue flowers for botanising them for blue dye ressource every X days. or the yellow ones for some yellow dye. or the yellows for woad.

 

What also could work is increasing the amount of forgaed items, like skill/10. so isntead of one woad you would find 5 if you have skill 55,

Edited by PWreset

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+1

If not as a dye... To be used as a material for creating decorative objects, walls, and cave cladding would all be grand in my opinion... Would also like to see similar for other colors too if practical :)

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-1, dye itself doesnt need love, botanizing does. Lapis lazuli in jewelry would be a different story. Plenty of woad can be obtained by botanizing in steppe areas, and steppe areas are ez-pz to make. Botanizing skill is more annoying though.

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-1 as a dye material

 

Forage/botanise is already massively overshadowed by farming/gardening (especially now that herbs can be grown).   If anything we should be buffing it by adding more useful items, not nerfing it by giving mining another buff.

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bump

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On 10/24/2017 at 4:33 AM, Yiraia said:

-1, dye itself doesnt need love, botanizing does. Lapis lazuli in jewelry would be a different story. Plenty of woad can be obtained by botanizing in steppe areas, and steppe areas are ez-pz to make. Botanizing skill is more annoying though.

Botanazing and foraging should be out of the game as a skill and should use gardening skill for foraging action instead..

+1 for additional sources for colors expecialy some that use different skill (minning should be suitable for LL)

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For anyone hunting woad, go botanizing in steppe - the chances of getting woad are significantly higher.

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