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Ayes

Digging Down Clay = Bad Idea

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I just want to go on record as stating that this new change of randomly digging down clay at 50-100 actions is a bad idea that will just create problems and more work for those who are concerned enough to repair the now appropriately named "clay pits".

 

It didn't take me more than just a few moments of thought to realize that most players will not be bringing any dirt with them to fill in the voids (holes) that they create now while digging clay. For those that are concerned enough to repair others damage (holes) it will just end up making more work for them due to the lack of concern of others. Newbies especially will not either know or take the time to dig dirt from somewhere else to fill in these pits they dig but they will just be a small part of the problem.

 

Since I believe that the Developers make changes to the way the game functions to improve it, I find it hard to figure out how they came up with this as being a good idea. There have already been suggestions made as how to improve the functions of clay digging and this hardly compares with them with any positive merit. If the Dev's want to improve the way clay functions then why not just make leveling clay have the same timer as regular leveling of dirt and reduce the ability to do so to 50 digging. Also enable the ability to level clay *upwards*. This would improve the functioning of clay in a positive way to enable altering it constructively. Digging it down randomly at 50-100 digs makes no sense at all to improve anything about it.

 

As for me, I am done with cleaning up problems that others create within WO through their own carelessness or lack of concern for those that come along behind them, such as surely this bright idea of digging clay down will create. I mean really, was no forethought put into this as being some positive improvement for the players of the game to enjoy?

*shakes head in bewilderment*

 

=Ayes=

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I do not understand why this change was warranted.  Same goes for giblets disappearing when you bury a corpse.  These both need to be reverted.

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As far as my understanding goes:

  • Digging down clay was an intended feature.
  • It broke.
  • It was fixed. (kinda)
  • It was still broken, as it only seemed to work on certain tiles. This is why some people stated that they'd always have to bring dirt with them to raise it back up, where others haven't had this issue. (It used to lower MUCH quicker in these instances. I think it was every 10 before.)
  • It's now balanced better between the broken state and the non-broken state. In other words, it's fixed.

That's pretty much the history of this. You may only see it from one side, having only experienced it one way. This is also a sandbox game, so why shouldn't someone be able to lower clay? You also know how the mechanic works now, meaning you can more easily prepare for it. For every 50-100 clay, you can drop 1 dirt to raise it back up. Also consider that some people have accidentally dumped dirt or sand on clay tiles, so how would you propose those be lowered? Leveling isn't an ideal solution. So if you can raise a tile up, why not lower it as well?

 

And no, this wasn't one of my fixes. I just understand why it was done this way and I happen to know the history that led to this change. Some seem to be mistaking it for some random change, when it's really not at all. 

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I could have sworn when I first started playing, around early 2011, , it would always randomly drop down one periodically (maybe every 10-20 actions?) and you had to occasionally dump a few dirt to raise it. Maybe I am misremembering. 

 

edit: oops, Keenan says my memory is fine :D  Because I have it in the back of my mind that it was always this way, it doesn't bother me at all and I never understood why I kept seeing this posts about it being "glitched" since it sounded like it was normal to me.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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Quote

This is also a sandbox game, so why shouldn't someone be able to lower clay?

 

We SHOULD be able to lower clay.  But it should be by another means other than digging clay, so that this process does not interfere for those that don't want to lower the slope.

 

Quote

You also know how the mechanic works now, meaning you can more easily prepare for it. For every 50-100 clay, you can drop 1 dirt to raise it back up.

 

I haven't had to for the last 2 years, and I shouldn't have to now.

 

Quote

 

Also consider that some people have accidentally dumped dirt or sand on clay tiles, so how would you propose those be lowered? Leveling isn't an ideal solution. So if you can raise a tile up, why not lower it as well?

 

Leveling does function properly, so yes, it is ideal.  How long does it take to level 1 slope of clay?  How long does it take to dig 50 clay?  Exactly.  Revert it back, because it takes LESS time AND effort.

 

Quote

 

And no, this wasn't one of my fixes. I just understand why it was done this way and I happen to know the history that led to this change. Some seem to be mistaking it for some random change, when it's really not at all. 

 

I'm not blaming you personally for it, but I think it is a very poor decision to make life more difficult for the 99 out of 100 people that simply wish to dig clay as opposed to appeasing the one guy that was hell bent on deeding over a field of clay.

 

We still can't convert clay tiles.

We still can't create clay tiles.

We still cannot flatten clay tiles. 

We still cannot "dredge" clay tiles.

 

These are the four issues that need to be addressed, not breaking something that was already working fine.

 

Edited by Wargasm
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this is not so bad. being able to lower clay is a great idea.  I remember when I started playing dropping dirt on clay or peat tiles turned them to dirt.  Sometimes I wish could still do that to get rid of some of the 9000 peat tiles sometimes in the way. 

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Everything is intended until it's been fixed, then it's a bug. Silly people.

 

Just wait until they add the ability to change clay tiles to dirt tiles.

Edited by Dairuka

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Strange since I remember from way back when on GV and beyond with it never lowering, ever, I've dug my share of clay and have in the past used dirt to raise it and flatten recently to flatten a tile, but it never dropped by digging.

 

What the hell do I know tho, I just played the game all these years ...

 

Guess you need a fancy forum title to be believable.

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2 hours ago, Ayes said:

I just want to go on record as stating that this new change of randomly digging down clay at 50-100 actions is a bad idea that will just create problems and more work for those who are concerned enough to repair the now appropriately named "clay pits".

 

It didn't take me more than just a few moments of thought to realize that most players will not be bringing any dirt with them to fill in the voids (holes) that they create now while digging clay. For those that are concerned enough to repair others damage (holes) it will just end up making more work for them due to the lack of concern of others. Newbies especially will not either know or take the time to dig dirt from somewhere else to fill in these pits they dig but they will just be a small part of the problem.

 

Since I believe that the Developers make changes to the way the game functions to improve it, I find it hard to figure out how they came up with this as being a good idea. There have already been suggestions made as how to improve the functions of clay digging and this hardly compares with them with any positive merit. If the Dev's want to improve the way clay functions then why not just make leveling clay have the same timer as regular leveling of dirt and reduce the ability to do so to 50 digging. Also enable the ability to level clay *upwards*. This would improve the functioning of clay in a positive way to enable altering it constructively. Digging it down randomly at 50-100 digs makes no sense at all to improve anything about it.

 

As for me, I am done with cleaning up problems that others create within WO through their own carelessness or lack of concern for those that come along behind them, such as surely this bright idea of digging clay down will create. I mean really, was no forethought put into this as being some positive improvement for the players of the game to enjoy?

*shakes head in bewilderment*

 

=Ayes=

 

So you can no longer sit on one tile for days at a time, weeks even digging tens of thousands of clay, cry me a river somewhere else.

 

A broken mechanic has been fixed, I for one look forwards to more broken mechanics being fixed, in the end the game is better for it.

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1 minute ago, JakeRivers said:

 

So you can no longer sit on one tile for days at a time, weeks even digging tens of thousands of clay, cry me a river somewhere else.

 

A broken mechanic has been fixed, I for one look forwards to more broken mechanics being fixed, in the end the game is better for it.

It would be great if we had a current list of broken mechanics, it seems atm ###### is just being made up as we go.

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16 minutes ago, Kadore said:

Strange since I remember from way back when on GV and beyond with it never lowering, ever, I've dug my share of clay and have in the past used dirt to raise it and flatten recently to flatten a tile, but it never dropped by digging.

 

What the hell do I know tho, I just played the game all these years ...

 

Guess you need a fancy forum title to be believable.

 

Heh, See, I have the opposite experience.. I remember having to haul dirt to the clay outside of newtown on old JK-H all the way back when i first started because it would always be underwater. I have found some pits over the years that didn't lower when dug, but they were never really close to me, so I just got used to hauling the dirt along with me on my mortar runs.

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7 minutes ago, spellcast said:

 

Heh, See, I have the opposite experience.. I remember having to haul dirt to the clay outside of newtown on old JK-H all the way back when i first started because it would always be underwater. I have found some pits over the years that didn't lower when dug, but they were never really close to me, so I just got used to hauling the dirt along with me on my mortar runs.

So it lowered in the old JHK days, then didnt for years, now it will again ... so after this change it will change to ...

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3 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Leveling does function properly, so yes, it is ideal.  How long does it take to level 1 slope of clay?  How long does it take to dig 50 clay?  Exactly.  Revert it back, because it takes LESS time AND effort.

 

Actually, ask anyone who's had their deed landlocked via clay raising, leveling only allowed bringing it back down to knarr depth.

 

3 hours ago, Wargasm said:

We still cannot "dredge" clay tiles.

 

Ehm... been able to dredge clay for ages.

 

Also it's 10 clays per tile on WU, you guys got off easy all in all.

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2 hours ago, Kadore said:

 

 

Guess you need a fancy forum title to be believable.

 

Here Ye, Here Ye.

 

Kadore, I now proclaim you GOD OF ALL THINGS THAT DON"T MATTER ON THE FORUMS. There, ya happy now? Ya have a fancy forum title. :)

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1 hour ago, Clatius said:

 

Here Ye, Here Ye.

 

Kadore, I now proclaim you GOD OF ALL THINGS THAT DON"T MATTER ON THE FORUMS. There, ya happy now? Ya have a fancy forum title. :)

That was taken years ago I'm sure.

 

I'm actually usually pretty happy, I suppose questioning changes equals unhappy I guess

 

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3 hours ago, Kadore said:

So it lowered in the old JHK days, then didnt for years, now it will again ... so after this change it will change to ...


No, It has lowered the entire time, just not on every clay patch/tile. Now it will lower a lot LESS on the tiles that used to lower, and only a little bit on the tiles that never did...

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4 hours ago, Mordraug said:

 

Actually, ask anyone who's had their deed landlocked via clay raising, leveling only allowed bringing it back down to knarr depth.

 

Which is why I brought up dredging as well.

 

The point I was trying to make is that leveling clay is faster.  30 seconds per slope, and digging 50 clay takes at least 250 seconds....per...slope.  Yeah, you can't level below 8 dirts deep, but Rolf fixed surface mining underwater, stands to reason he could do the same for dredging clay.

 

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These are all my suggestions and are fully open for suggestions.  I put this to open up all the tiles to building because all to often I see huge areas unsuitable for building due to wide spread deposits of these materials.

 

I would strongly recommend a change to all of this for Clay, Tar, Peat, Moss tiles.  Make these tiles appear "naturally" as a tile enhancement, (similar to enchanted grass) meaning after so uses they are consumed. Underneath it would be dirt or sand.   

 

What you do to correct for the need of these tiles is create crafting/processing stations to process materials into the needed clay, tar,peat resources.

*Suggestion* A Clay station that needs to be -1 to -3 in the water or (maybe it would require a supply of water added from a well?).  You input dirt and can process out dirt based on quality and skill 5 - 25 clay could be produced per dirt, as an additional measure   you could add straw (from grain crops),reeds or grass to further stretch out the clay making process?

 

For tar you could bake logs and water in the smelter, kiln or other object to produce the tar? Could be passive production or improved with active use and the forestry skill?

 

For Peat, you could use plant scraps, grasses, wood scraps and Moss?  Let it ferment to convert it to peat and use forestry to harvest for quality? The best thing about this would be that peat could be "recycled" here to restore quality in a newer harvest.

 

Lastly, Moss should be naturally occurring under oak and willow trees in the plant "kill zone".  This could be encouraged with watering or it will slowly regrow.  If exposed to sunlight it will dry out and form peat enhancement on the surface?

 

 

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Lolol this is comming from the same person that was complaining before that the "fall of bugfixes" wasn't enough. Now they fix bugs and it's not good again.

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This is an improvement by far. It was dropping every 10th dig. This new fix is 5x to 10x longer before you have to drop dirt meaning more room for brought home clay and less room for carried in dirt.

 

EDIT: I should say, on the tile I use that is closest to home. It dropped every 10th dig. One that is farther from home never dropped. For me it has always been "do I want to cart in dirt or do I want to drive forever?"

 

Edited by Audrel
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I remember it working like this in 2010/11, I always had a few extra dirt on me to bring the tile back up, and it wasn't that big a deal....

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I too remember clay randomly dropping years ago, but for the past few years I've never had it happen which was a huge improvement. I'd rather have seen them change it so it never drops as Ayes is spot on that shared clay spots are likely to turn into messes as new players aren't aware that they need to bring dirt and others probably won't care as they believe that somebody else will fix it for them (by dropping dirt) at some point.

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Clay has pretty much always been able to drop.

 

What I found was if I queued three dig actions and let my stamina recover after it never dropped.

 

If I kept digging without letting stamina regen or queued seven actions then there was a reasonable chance of it dropping.

 

So I assumed the chance of dropping was time based and if you managed it actively and kept it below a certain threshold the clay wouldn't drop. Don't pay attention and it did.

 

I liked it that way as it was under my control whether or not I would dig down clay.

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