Undo forum change

[Zera 175]

2 minutes ago, KunAlt said:

I just see a bunch of empty squares all around, probably people using other browsers don't have this issue, but I rater stop using the forums that switch my browser just because someone decided to trow a bunch of incompatible crap.

Just a thought, but why not inform the team of what browser you are using and take the time to perhaps explain where these 'empty squares' are, so they can be resolved?

If you're feeling really nice, or would really like to see your issue fixed so you can use the Forums effectively. You could load up another browser to specifically point out what 'empty squares' are in the other browser for comparison.

[Zekezor 3,188]

4 minutes ago, Zera said:

Personally I think there could be a little more 'thanks!' going around

I think you forgot that Code Club is a company which charge money for its services.

[Zera 175]

1 minute ago, Zekezor said:

I think you forgot that Code Club is a company which charge money for its services.

I haven't forgotten at all, but I also haven't forgotten that it also offers an unlimited free access to the game too.

You don't have to pre-buy it, and pay a sub. You can play it 100% for free, if you wanted to, no cash from your pocket.

 

Just because they charge a sub fee (for players who choose to pay out of pocket, instead of working the economy and other players who do pay from pocket) does not grant them all-mighty endless funding power to perform miracle tasks.

The only thing that Code Club "owes" (and I use this term lightly here) anyone, is the 'premium time' given when paid for. And even then they can revoke/ban your account if you cannot follow rules properly. Which is of no fault on their part, but the players.

 

That being said, just because they're charging 16 Euro every 2 months for a 2 month subscription, does not make them anywhere near a AAA game. They are small team, and I believe may even be considered "Indie" (is that the right term to use there?). So yes, things aren't going to be finely polished, and they don't owe anyone that. No game owes anyone that.

What we can expect, is that they will do their best to polish and fine-tune to the best of the abilities, at the speed they are capable of. And demanding/wanting more of a small team for a game such as Wurm is quite frankly wrong.

 

If you truly enjoy Wurm and the gameplay it has to offer, and respect all that the team does for it's players, there shouldn't be any complaining about 'how awful this change is' and instead should reflect on information you have to offer. Not complaints, or demands that what they've done is horrible.

 

When the day comes that you pay someone to code you you're own special game with your own features and layouts and all that lovely stuff.. Then you can complain all you like about how it's not complete enough before release, or doesn't look right. Until then, work with the team because they're here to listen. I cannot say I see that too much of the larger games, not on the level that Wurm does.

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Fewtheunsleepproud crying as usual, this forum works 10 times better for android then the other one.

 

-1

[Propheteer 7,139]

I like it, much cleaner.

 

Could use a different default theme, but other than that it's excellent.

[Wargasm 1,926]

1 hour ago, Zera said:

For those who are complaining about this new forum update, let it go..

It's a new update, with new features and more work to be done on it yet.

 I'm sure are still being worked on, and fine-tuned.

 

ok, so test it, tweak it, fix it, THEN release it? 

 

1 hour ago, Zera said:

Personally I like the update, and am eager to see what kind of changes are in-store for it when they get closer to finishing the update for it.

 

What do you like about the new forum?  The blinding white background? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Zera said:

"It was fine" is never a good reason to not try something new or add something. If that were the case, we'd still have nothing but Wild GREY horses, only white sheep or probably no sheep at all, and we wouldn't have gotten "plain stone walls" or multistories (which means no bridges either). The game was fine before, why change it? Right?

 

Bad example.  We didn't get blood red and distorted terrain with the horse colors update, did we?

 

 

1 hour ago, Zera said:

Give it more than a few hours to actually give it a try. It looks different, it feels a little different, but it still functions the same.

Don't turn it down simply because it's new/different.

 

More than a few hours?  Hello.... it's the weekend.  Say hello to significantly diminished forum activity for the remainder of the weekend.

 

[Zera 175]

3 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

ok, so test it, tweak it, fix it, THEN release it? 

 

What do you like about the new forum?  The blinding white background? 

 

Bad example.  We didn't get blood red and distorted terrain with the horse colors update, did we?

 

More than a few hours?  Hello.... it's the weekend.  Say hello to significantly diminished forum activity for the remainder of the weekend.

Where would you like to test it?

Are you aware of some magic forum that gets used by Wurm Players or even the Developers of the new forum setup that the rest of us don't know about?

What is so broken that makes the forums unusable right now? And no, color scheme does not count...

 

What do I like about the new forum?

I like the notices that someone has posted the very thread that I'm currently looking at, without having to refresh the page 100 times to check if something new was added to it. That's a good new feature.

The blinding white isn't a new feature, it's a yet to be updated layout scheme, which has already been mentioned to be a work in progress and will get updated. The forums are not 100% complete, and that goes for the theme as well.

 

Perfect examples.

No we didn't get blood red and distorted terrain with the BUG FIX to seeing only grey horses in the wild. THAT was a bug, and was a bug for a long time. It's been fixed, but it didn't "break" horses, did it?

The point there being, not everything is released 100% fully functional, and they DO get updated and fixed. Nothing here is broken to the point it's unusable. No it's not very pretty to look at right now, but it functions.

They didn't split up forum sections, move threads around in all kinds of weird ways that you cannot find what you're looking for.

Instead they changed the initial layout of the page and added new features to make it more user-friendly. And yes, I do think it is USER friendly. Appearance (pretty) doesn't change the fact that accessing certain things, or finding what you're looking for harder to do. It's the same forums, just with a different theme to it and a better laid out access to features we already new and loved, with some new ones added in.

 

Yes, it's the weekend.

It's when the kids aren't at school and we're sure to see a lot less kiddies using the forums right now because "it's not pretty to look at" and often times "new is scary". But that doesn't make it harder to use, or to find things.

For those who are going to be active on the forums regardless that "it looks ugly", it's a perfect time for people to explore it, familiarize themselves with what is new and may or may not have changed and provide real feedback on what could be improved on.

But to anyone who's just going to login to the forums, see it's different declare it awful within the first couple of minutes of looking it over, aren't doing anyone any good.

 

Outside of changing the theme, updating a few bug fixes (like they do ingame ALL the time) I don't think we're going to be seeing the old layout again. So it's best to just "suck it up buttercup" and learn what it has to offer, and offer your own feedback on it. "It's awful" isn't good feedback and doesn't do anything but make it clear that "I hate it".

Which boils down to the simple "If you don't like it, don't use it." But there is no reason to go around complaining about it, if that's all that's going to happen. It gets no one, anywhere and no changes can be made to improve it, because there is not clear "I don't like X" going on.

We get it.. The theme/color scheme is horrid. It's a work in progress. Let it go already. So unless someone's got some suggestions on the way the theme could be "eye candy" or whatever, it's pointless to keep pointing out because it's not going to stay this way anyway.

[Kadore 926]

2 hours ago, yashua said:

The people who want the old version sound like all the people that still want to use windows 98, there was nothing wrong with it why upgrade? lol

The people that want the new forum sound like those that wanted windows 8 ... see what I did there?

 

 

[Zera 175]

1 hour ago, Kadore said:

The people that want the new forum sound like those that wanted windows 8 ... see what I did there?

 

 

But the difference being "upgrades and new features, new things to do and ways to do them" vs. "what you've had for a long time, with no opportunity to experience anything new. Stuck with the same old things."

 

Really it's a boil down to:

Eating nothing but Creamy Peanut Butter because that's what you've been raised on and all you've ever eaten growing up. But you love Peanut Butter and of course you love Peanuts, but why bother to even try Crunchy? Creamy has been just fine for you all these years, why bother to try something new?

(Sorry I just had a PB&J) xD

[Zera 175]

There are too many folks out there afraid of change, and when they are faced with it in a place they are all to familiar with they panic.

That's what I'm getting from all of this.

 

It's not the incomplete theme, it's not the currently poor color choices of things. It's not even the new navigation (which no one has said a single word about this far). It's the fact that it's different, and the idea of something new and different is scary. People get too comfortable to the point where when something changes in their typical/usual interaction in their daily (or frequent) life, they get antsy and upset.

 

If we use the 98 vs. ANY version released there-after...

98 had your basic gaming, mostly what we'd call now, outdated blocky/chunky graphics, limited user interaction due to coded limitations and very basic infrastructure in their systems.

Versions AFTER offered the opportunity for better design, sleeker, more friendly interfaces. More options and flexibility of customization and an overall better experience. (For when certain versions weren't designed more for an other device than the actually intended (Windows 8).)

 

If you cannot accept the opportunity for change and the room to grow and expand with the release of new features/technology/interface of both the user and the machine in question, you're going to struggle with much of anything.

Now a days everything is updating and changing constantly, new things added, tweaked, altered, and adjusted to keep up with the constantly changing world around them, and failure to do so leaves them feeling old and out-dated.

 

Many players out there these days take one look at Wurm and declare the game a waste of time simply because of it's graphics. But every dedicated Wurm player knows it's not about the way the game looks, now isn't it? Even though Code Club has worked towards putting out new models for things, and adjustments to the way things move and interact with the world.

These forums are no different. Forums are getting a face-lift just like the mob models and player models got in-game. We got to sit in carts finally, so with forums new face-lift we're getting new features/abilities here too.

It's the same ordeal, and even though one is a graphic game we play on a screen, and the other is an interactive chat system we use to communicate outside of game. It is still the same principle.

 

If the same people can be excited for new Horse and other Mob models, and customizing their characters. Why can't they be excited for the possibilities that the new Forums setup will have too?

What would be great, is if Code Club offered customized themes. Not exactly the ability to skin our own forums, but options. Maybe I'd like my Forums to have horses in the background, or maybe I'd like to look out on some magnificent deed with an amazing castle? What could be coming may just surprise you, and maybe you have thoughts of your own?

No one is going to know these things if all anyone is seeing is "I don't like it". Speak up, stop complaining and actually use those words to communicate what you don't like and what you want to see?

I don't understand why that's so hard.

[Lycanthropic 523]

Dear Magranon Zera!

 

Did you design the new forum and thus pissed off because people have critique on it??

 

I've seen people defend things, but you go waaaaaay out of you're way on this one it seems.

 

You speak that we should know by now that Wurm doesnt have a full AAA-developer team backing it up, and things like this new forum are to be expected, but then YOU must surely know, that this forum is usually full of people who cry REALLY loud when something changes that they dont like, without really adding solutions or going in detail why they dont like it.

 

People on this forum will "-1" and "REVERTOMGWTF!!!" all the time, you should by now been used to that, heck, Rolf used to swing out in the past on the forum (andthat resulted in some ugly stuff) but he already has learned that the forum does not represent the Wurm playerbase at all and knows how to take stuff with a pinch of salt and knows NOT to go to emotional into defending against critique.

 

 

I can understand that you want to defend this new forum design/Wurm a bit, but going so out of your way to aggresively reply to every negative post in this topic, is just... not healthy, really, it cant be good for your bloodpressure if I analyse your posts and the tone you set down.

 

Your message came across, now just take a deep breath and let all this #### just slide off you, once the custom wurm-theme is added back to the forum, these topics and remarks will die down real fast.

 

 

 

And ontopic:

I dont care much about the design of a forum, as long as I can post/read stuff and dont have adds popping up left and I right, then I'm a happy forummer.

 

The structure is still basically the same of the old Wurm forum (with a few extra bells and whistles), and I know that no dev is planning on keeping this white background as the standard theme for the forums (especially not since they made such nice graphics in the old forum), so I dont spit "-1" towards that, because I know they will change it the moment they can.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Lycanthropic

[Griffith 362]

48 minutes ago, Lycanthropic said:

stuff

 

but, but then what am i gonna read when i, grinding?  

[Audrel 2,223]

8 hours ago, Zera said:

These are the kinds of posts that we need to see. Not "change it back!".

Feedback is important, but it's only helpful when it's informative. "i don't like it" doesn't tell anyone what you don't like about it, or how to improve it.

 

Customize-able settings, with a minimal default? I think personally that's reasonable and would be smart for 'starting' settings and users can edit as they like. Rather than being bombarded with loads of notices or something, of things they may not exactly want to see.

 

Maybe they're still working on the settings part of the forums as well. I made a brief skim of the options but I cannot say that it was too overly clear on what I glanced at and found myself questioning what some things were exactly, how they effected other things, or why there didn't seem to be choices for other settings that weren't there at all.
But then again, this is still only a max of a couple hours old(live) and I haven't had too much chance to explore the basic setup just yet.

 

"I don't like it" and "I prefer the old forums" are feedback. They say exactly what they don't like... the new format. I thought WTH? myself but then shrugged. Wurm is about the only place to not change their forum this year. I think the old one fit the game better but this will do I guess. But I can say "I don't like it because I prefer the old format" and it's valid enough and says why. 

[Zera 175]

3 hours ago, Lycanthropic said:

Dear Magranon Zera!

 

Did you design the new forum and thus pissed off because people have critique on it??

 

I've seen people defend things, but you go waaaaaay out of you're way on this one it seems.

 

You speak that we should know by now that Wurm doesnt have a full AAA-developer team backing it up, and things like this new forum are to be expected, but then YOU must surely know, that this forum is usually full of people who cry REALLY loud when something changes that they dont like, without really adding solutions or going in detail why they dont like it.

 

People on this forum will "-1" and "REVERTOMGWTF!!!" all the time, you should by now been used to that, heck, Rolf used to swing out in the past on the forum (andthat resulted in some ugly stuff) but he already has learned that the forum does not represent the Wurm playerbase at all and knows how to take stuff with a pinch of salt and knows NOT to go to emotional into defending against critique.

 

 

I can understand that you want to defend this new forum design/Wurm a bit, but going so out of your way to aggresively reply to every negative post in this topic, is just... not healthy, really, it cant be good for your bloodpressure if I analyse your posts and the tone you set down.

 

Your message came across, now just take a deep breath and let all this #### just slide off you, once the custom wurm-theme is added back to the forum, these topics and remarks will die down real fast.

 

 

 

And ontopic:

I dont care much about the design of a forum, as long as I can post/read stuff and dont have adds popping up left and I right, then I'm a happy forummer.

 

The structure is still basically the same of the old Wurm forum (with a few extra bells and whistles), and I know that no dev is planning on keeping this white background as the standard theme for the forums (especially not since they made such nice graphics in the old forum), so I dont spit "-1" towards that, because I know they will change it the moment they can.

I have a serious pet-peeve about people who want to do nothing but whine and complain that they hate something, and/or want to demand that they are owed something just because X.

 

I cannot say I use the forums much to be honest, but I am well aware of how vocal the "kiddie crowd" can be.  And is it really going out of my way, if I'm not doing anything else anyway? Some people find fun and enjoyment in the trolling or the complaining, and while I find I am annoyed by these things from others, I really don't mind trying to shed some light or explain to these "kids" that they really aren't going to achieve anything by doing so.

If anything I say, gets through to 1 person then my attempts were successful. However, I cannot say that I refer to "kids" with the idea that they are bothered to stop and consider much besides themselves to begin with.

 

While my posts may seem rather aggressive and the tone may be questionable in which direction it is going, I assure you there is nothing but sighs of disappointment or giggles at the ridiculousness that is "people".

Last night was entertaining to say the least, it at least kept me busy while I had nothing left to do. Now I grow rather bored with repeating myself, because it's still apparent from posts made after yours, that near no one understands any bit of what I've been saying. I cannot say I expected any differently.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Zera
Forgot words, didn't want to be misleading

[Eyesgood 2,121]

16 hours ago, Josh said:

I mean come on. Its absolutely awful. The other one was perfectly fine and there was no reason to change it at all. 

 

As a company they have every right to change systems.  Come on, let's not act like we own Wurm Online....  Give them some deference. 

[Josh 477]

8 minutes ago, Eyesgood said:

 

As a company they have every right to change systems.  Come on, let's not act like we own Wurm Online....  Give them some deference. 

To be fair we as the players kind of do own wurm online. Every bit of money used to fund it comes from us, so in a sense we do. And we as player should have every right to have our input on something BEFORE it is changed, not after.

[KunAlt 844]

12 hours ago, Zera said:

There are too many folks out there afraid of change, and when they are faced with it in a place they are all to familiar with they panic.

That's what I'm getting from all of this.

 

It's not the incomplete theme, it's not the currently poor color choices of things. It's not even the new navigation (which no one has said a single word about this far). It's the fact that it's different, and the idea of something new and different is scary. People get too comfortable to the point where when something changes in their typical/usual interaction in their daily (or frequent) life, they get antsy and upset.

 

If we use the 98 vs. ANY version released there-after...

98 had your basic gaming, mostly what we'd call now, outdated blocky/chunky graphics, limited user interaction due to coded limitations and very basic infrastructure in their systems.

Versions AFTER offered the opportunity for better design, sleeker, more friendly interfaces. More options and flexibility of customization and an overall better experience. (For when certain versions weren't designed more for an other device than the actually intended (Windows 8).)

 

If you cannot accept the opportunity for change and the room to grow and expand with the release of new features/technology/interface of both the user and the machine in question, you're going to struggle with much of anything.

Now a days everything is updating and changing constantly, new things added, tweaked, altered, and adjusted to keep up with the constantly changing world around them, and failure to do so leaves them feeling old and out-dated.

 

Many players out there these days take one look at Wurm and declare the game a waste of time simply because of it's graphics. But every dedicated Wurm player knows it's not about the way the game looks, now isn't it? Even though Code Club has worked towards putting out new models for things, and adjustments to the way things move and interact with the world.

These forums are no different. Forums are getting a face-lift just like the mob models and player models got in-game. We got to sit in carts finally, so with forums new face-lift we're getting new features/abilities here too.

It's the same ordeal, and even though one is a graphic game we play on a screen, and the other is an interactive chat system we use to communicate outside of game. It is still the same principle.

 

If the same people can be excited for new Horse and other Mob models, and customizing their characters. Why can't they be excited for the possibilities that the new Forums setup will have too?

What would be great, is if Code Club offered customized themes. Not exactly the ability to skin our own forums, but options. Maybe I'd like my Forums to have horses in the background, or maybe I'd like to look out on some magnificent deed with an amazing castle? What could be coming may just surprise you, and maybe you have thoughts of your own?

No one is going to know these things if all anyone is seeing is "I don't like it". Speak up, stop complaining and actually use those words to communicate what you don't like and what you want to see?

I don't understand why that's so hard.

 

 

I can't be more exited.

 

BTW clearing cache does nothing to fix it.

[Zera 175]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

To be fair we as the players kind of do own wurm online. Every bit of money used to fund it comes from us, so in a sense we do. And we as player should have every right to have our input on something BEFORE it is changed, not after.

Just because you pay a subscription fee, does not mean you own the game.

If you own the game, then lets see you submit some coding for it, look into ways to make it better and say more than "I don't like it"

You have your right to put your input in it, but they don't have to listen to you with it either. You by rights that they have given you, are allowed to play the game. You paying to play it, a choice you make. The money you pay to play it, goes towards keeping it running and further development, but gives you no further rights than to the premium access that the fee you give them allows.

 

If you want to "own" Wurm in any sense, provide more money than your in-game coin and subscription fees. Until then, you are paying for a service they are selling. Not a game they are selling.

No more than you paying for the electricity in your house. Does that mean you own the electric company too? And have a say-so in how they manage their fees or power-lines providing you with that power?

Edited November 21, 2015 by Zera

[Josh 477]

Why are you so triggered

[Zera 175]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

Why are you so triggered

Why are you so blind to how this works?

I hear a lot of "mine", "me" and "hate" in everything you say but nothing useful out of you. Why?

[erozaxx 37]

Well, I'll wait to see the final version of forums, but hey. The WO is out there for quite some time. I think ppl are pouring into the game some hefty bucks so you could afford a parallel VM and Forum before at least the most ugly and immature stupidities are settled, before switching old forum off and forcing ppl using this new one. This really seems like someone let elementary school student to TRY to put up a forum as his homework ... overnight.

[Audrel 2,223]

1 hour ago, Zera said:

Why are you so blind to how this works?

I hear a lot of "mine", "me" and "hate" in everything you say but nothing useful out of you. Why?

 

No offense, but you are saying a lot of nothing useful yourself. People have opinions. Their opinion is just as valuable as yours. Aesthetics. You can't quantify tastes. If they don't like, they don't like it. Because you do does not invalidate their opinion and being snitty in half the post count in the thread is not a good way to wear your tag. "I don't like the look of it" is just as valid as your diatribe on change. You're trolling as hard as what you call trolls. Step back. Take a breath. Let it go. 

 

PS: I don't care how the forums look but you're beginning to irritate me with haughty demeanor over other's opinions. 

[Zera 175]

22 hours ago, Josh said:

I mean come on. Its absolutely awful. The other one was perfectly fine and there was no reason to change it at all. 

 

22 hours ago, Rhianna said:

please go back to the old forum version. I still think this is horrible. This is like the kindergarten version of the forums

 

21 hours ago, Aarbi said:

yeah old forum was alot better as this new one i think :)

 

Tell me where, in these posts it says more than "it" or "this"?

 

3 hours ago, Audrel said:

"I don't like the look of it" is just as valid as your diatribe on change.

 

I yet to read any "don't like the look of it" from half the comments on this thread. If that were the case, I wouldn't continue to make mention of "don't like what!?" replies back. As that would obviously be redundant, wouldn't it?

 

I am not looking down on anyone's opinions here, I am asking for information on these opinions. WHY "don't like it". I get the "I" and the "don't like" but I don't get the it information. It's just simply no where to be found...

As far as what I say, being nothing useful. I think that's all a matter of whether or not you're going to actually follow along and considering ALL that is being said here, not just picking bits and pieces.

I have said my 2 cents on what features I have seen so far and what I have or haven't liked. Any commentary after that fact have been nothing more than "stop being children, stop whining like you're owed anything and/or like you own anything, and provide REAL feedback that can be used." Because "No, stop that" doesn't explain what "that" is, now does it?

 

As far as my tag goes, it's an unfortunate result of an in-game status that I am unable to not wear here on the forums. I am not here as a CA, but as a player just like you and everyone else. And if it's going to come back at me that I am not allowed to voice my opinions just as everyone else here is, then let them take it away.

I am not going to stand idly by why everyone throws a tantrum, demands that things be done a certain way (without specifying anything at all), and make comments in the manner that they are owed anything, from anyone, of Code Club for whatever reason.

[Josh 477]

why are you so triggered

[Wargasm 1,926]

4 minutes ago, Zera said:

*snip*

 

As far as my tag goes, it's an unfortunate result of an in-game status that I am unable to not wear here on the forums. I am not here as a CA, but as a player just like you and everyone else. And if it's going to come back at me that I am not allowed to voice my opinions just as everyone else here is, then let them take it away.

 

I have to give Kudos for your honesty here.  Being able to speak my mind without repercussions is the reason why I have no desire to be a staff member.  I commend you for doing so.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Zera said:

I am not going to stand idly by why everyone throws a tantrum, demands that things be done a certain way (without specifying anything at all), and make comments in the manner that they are owed anything, from anyone, of Code Club for whatever reason.

 

Yes, you will stand idly by when we throw a tantrum.  You should take a page out of Rolf's playbook on that one because he's the creator.

 

This is Wurm, a Sandbox game.  In a Sandbox, things can become broken (such as the permission system bugs that Tich has been battling for the last month or so).  Things will break, we expect this.  But what we don't expect is for something clearly imperfect to be released.  Imagine how buggy bridges would have been (and how much screaming would have taken place) if there were lethal bugs (that resulted in player death) as a result of bridge design flaws due to a hasty release?

 

You want specific examples of why we don't like it?  The white screen, the alerts, the emails, the list goes on for some players more than others.

 

I'll leave you with one last thought.  When I walk into a restaurant and order food... lets say a cheeseburger, and I don't like it and decide to order something else, I will not be grilled by the waiter with 100 questions, I will be served new food or I will leave the restaurant.  In the case of Wurm, the devs will listen, or they may not listen.  But they can't hear what we don't say, which is why posts such as this one exist.