Merge Epic Cluster + Freedom Cluster

[bloodmaster 318]

You still didn't answer if all of MR will leave due to it? You seem to make a big lot of that vote. And if you force the people who voted yes to live on Epic, when they would rather be apart of the Chaos merge with more people, in the long run you could definitely see people quitting over it.

[Propheteer 7,139]

3 hours ago, whykillme said:

Well, you are partly right and partly wrong.

 

Let me try to explain this with your example, woodcutting.

 

Assuming we're using a 1ql tool on Freedom AND Epic and the tool skill is the same as the woodcutting skill. We're cutting walnut trees.

 

Skillticks at skill levels:

 

Freedom: 

70 Skill: 49% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.49 Skillgain

80 Skill: 46% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.46 Skillgain

90 Skill: 41% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.41 Skillgain

95 Skill: 38% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.38 Skillgain

99.9 Skill: 35% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.35 Skillgain

 

Epic:

 

70 (90 skill): 41% Tickrate x 0.02 (epic) = 0.82 Skillgain

80 (95? skill) 38% Tickrate x 0.02 (epic) = 0.76 Skillgain

90 (99.9? skill) 35% Tickrate x 0.02 (epic) = 0.70 Skillgain

 

So yes, your bonus is not the 2x you were promised all the way to 100, but it is still faster all the way to 100.

 

 

 

 

I'll need to think/reply about this when i'm more awake and did some testing. It doesn't sound right as im certain woodcutting on epic is much more difficult than it is on freedom, and that could be due to me not understanding how it works entirely (although i was pretty sure i did.)

 

1 hour ago, Redd said:

60% say yes.

 

thats a 40% loss in player base and therefore a 40% loss in revenue from Rolf's PvP player base.

 

Can't see this goin through as it would simply kill off to many players.

 

Yes it means we put all the PvP population together, but at what cost?

 

So 40% people are going to quit the game.

 

Your entire kingdom is going to quit the game if this goes through?

 

Is that a joke? lol. Nearly nobody in this thread who voted no and posted said they would quit or consider quitting if this happened, nobody i spoke to about it in game said it either, whether they agreed to it or not. Most of the people i spoke to actually had a stance of "my view is x, but i don't care either which way"

 

That's completely blown out of proportion.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Propheteer

[Alexgopen 2,376]

I realize that the intent behind this suggestion is to consolidate the pvp playerbase, but I don't think that this would be a good idea in practice, as the two clusters' pvp servers follow such different playstyles.  It would be a -1 from me, I think that rather putting everyone together to increase pvp playerbase, instead perhaps actually do some sort of advertising and give better explanation of the differences between the various servers in the tutorial when selecting a server to join. 

 

I have never seen a single wurm online ad anywhere, and only came across the game myself several years ago by browsing for a new mmo to play on some website that compiled a list of all known mmos.  It was only chance that I ever even tried wurm, by deciding that out of the list of mmos presented on that website, that this one sounded interesting. 

[Stik 453]

3 hours ago, Alexgopen said:

I realize that the intent behind this suggestion is to consolidate the pvp playerbase, but I don't think that this would be a good idea in practice, as the two clusters' pvp servers follow such different playstyles.  It would be a -1 from me, I think that rather putting everyone together to increase pvp playerbase, instead perhaps actually do some sort of advertising and give better explanation of the differences between the various servers in the tutorial when selecting a server to join. 

 

I have never seen a single wurm online ad anywhere, and only came across the game myself several years ago by browsing for a new mmo to play on some website that compiled a list of all known mmos.  It was only chance that I ever even tried wurm, by deciding that out of the list of mmos presented on that website, that this one sounded interesting. 

The thing here is that sure you'll be gaining new people into Wurm, but that doesn't mean, or direct them to the Chaos server or the Epic cluster.

[Naio 675]

proph what are you talking about?  you can see who voted "yes" and as i said, confirmed that alts are spamming the voting.

 

it's literally your entire kingdom being asked to vote yes on the topic, both on epic and chaos, for whatever underhanded reasoning you have behind it.  maybe you promised you'd push MR back if you came back?  Maybe JK is completely giving up and this is their last hope?

 

it's 60/40 today.  on day 1 it was 90/10.

 

over the past week, "yes" has gotten a small handful of votes.  "no" has gotten almost 60.

 

your exploiting of polls are bad and you should feel bad

[Propheteer 7,139]

44 minutes ago, Naio said:

proph what are you talking about?  you can see who voted "yes" and as i said, confirmed that alts are spamming the voting.

 

it's literally your entire kingdom being asked to vote yes on the topic, both on epic and chaos, for whatever underhanded reasoning you have behind it.  maybe you promised you'd push MR back if you came back?  Maybe JK is completely giving up and this is their last hope?

 

it's 60/40 today.  on day 1 it was 90/10.

 

over the past week, "yes" has gotten a small handful of votes.  "no" has gotten almost 60.

 

your exploiting of polls are bad and you should feel bad

 

there really aren't that many alts

 

good jab lad

 

yes, i got most of the people i know personally to take a look at the topic, fortunately, most everyone i spoke to agreed.

 

blatant lie

 

and last but not least, once again, good jab lad.

 

 

[Mowglia 190]

I voted no.

 

Some of us like being on Epic and we don't care about Freedom or PvP over there. If we did we'd have started on Freedom. Trouble with Freedom is you can bail and sail to a non-PvP server. That isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.

 

Just leave us be.

 

If you want more PvP delete Chaos and come to Epic :)

[whykillme 1,621]

Well mowglia, you don't have to go to chaos. I guess rolf can just make a portal from Epic to Chaos.

 

Using this portal will remove all your epic skill and transform those into freedom skills.

 

We just need to find a fair way to apply this skill system transformation.

[Cayce 235]

Hmm... *throws in some fresh thoughts*

I can totally see why many of the "veteran" players on either Chaos or Epic say this is a nogo :/
But actually I've read nothing about new players.

New players, as rare as they may be, will always have to decide wether they go to Chaos or Epic, and automatically, one side will win from the players decision while the other one loses.

And the decision itself is just horrible. How are they supposed to know what community or server they like more?

As a "rather new player" on epic I do see - and have - a big problem with that. I found friends on epic, and yet I'm still not sure if that is the place where I want to be. Sure, I could go to Chaos... but that would mean to abandon my friends on epic, since I neither have the time nor want to play on two servers at the same time.

Only one pvp server on the other hand would mean only one place to go for pvp interested Newbies

[MaurizioAM 919]

So i havnt posted yet so here it goes.

 

The only way this could work without pissing off vets on either cluster is to continue to keep the cluster skills and items etc separate. But change how skills are transfered. Now only a Dev/Rolf would be able to confirm exactly how skills are affected by the 2x gain. And if the equation is simple stupid and straight forward then the example listed a few comments behind mine might be showing some truth. 

 

With that said im not going to be biased about this and i realize there are many freedom players who dont like the idea to start over as well as epic players having to do the same in a harder fashion on freedom. There is to much seperation that is not needed and i dont understand why Rolf continues to go down this route its nothing but bad news for wurm online. The simple solution is to remove the x2 skill gain from epic and adjust the curve a bit higher at lower skills gradually balancing as your epic skills get higher. By removing the x2 skill gain we go back to basics allowing both clusters to be able to share NEW accounts between clusters opening up a much larger option for players if one cluster seems to die out during certain parts of the year. 

 

Now the kicker. Some of you might like this, those of you trying to keep your skills and sorcery might not. AN OPTION for anyone on epic wanting to convert your skills a 1 time ordeal you can use the convert and turn your skills into a normal 1x gain with the adjusted epic curve and be allowed to bring skills over with you to freedom or you dont have to use that convert and you can just keep it seperate. ( or what i would do as Rolf/a dev i would just make everyone convert the skills to make life much easier. Knowing that the adjusted curve will make up for any skill loss.)  My suggestion is to ultimately connect the clusters in a way that would allow easy start for any existing player on freedom or epic cluster. 

 

Now lets talk about this convert. Lets assume everyone is either forced through it or everyone accepts it on their own but everyone would be affected. Those players with 90 skill in certain skills, although the skill gain is x2 that would make your converted skill 45. I can honestly say that wouldnt work nor would that be fair. Looking at the example of skill gains above it seems the curve affects the x2 and its not a straight forward 100% skill gain difference but perhaps retaining 75% of your skills from epic. So someone with 99 will come over with 74. Yes it hurts a bit but this is a choice that has to be made the fact the people chose to play on seperate cluster and now those same people want to play on freedom well there has to be a compromise. If you already have higher then 75% of your epic skill on freedom you will retain the higher of the 2 calculations. 

[ one thing to keep in mind some skills like weapon smithing and meditation should probably have a different percentage]

 

My long rant comes to an end. Flame away.

[SmeJack 5,806]

The flaw there is that we don't want to, we would be forced if this suggestion gets taken on. So why should those who don't want this be forced to take any skill loss at all? If being forced through yet another server wipe freedom can learn to accept the epic accounts as they are and chaos can take a wipe too for the pleasure.

[Redd 4,281]

36 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

The flaw there is that we don't want to, we would be forced if this suggestion gets taken on. So why should those who don't want this be forced to take any skill loss at all? If being forced through yet another server wipe freedom can learn to accept the epic accounts as they are and chaos can take a wipe too for the pleasure.

 

We dont want this as much as you do. Its just Propheteers group who want to bring all their OP accounts over which have had increase skill gain and very easy access to valrei items. And then you get JK who have been told to vote yes without any real reason just because they're being wiped off of chaos.

 

This will ultimately lose Rolf revenue, from a business stand point i really hope he never even contemplates this. From a game play point of view, we'll end up with half the population on one server because two completely different games have been mashed together.

 

[Hashirama 870]

On 11/24/2015, 2:57:51, whykillme said:

Well mowglia, you don't have to go to chaos. I guess rolf can just make a portal from Epic to Chaos.

 

Using this portal will remove all your epic skill and transform those into freedom skills.

 

We just need to find a fair way to apply this skill system transformation.

 

Stop right there. 
The point of this suggestion was to consolidate pvp and have 1 pvp server/cluster. Now, if "those who want to come can come and others can stay" , how does that solve the problem proposed? That would just allow a group of individuals to come over with their skills. What stops people from making another suggestion in future "hey they got to take their toons, our turn please". 
Honestly, even a blind person can see that this is an attempt to get certain accounts to chaos under the banner of "consolidating pvp servers".

[Hashirama 870]

Those who want to live on epic like mowglia are there for obvious reasons. Making an option to either come or not with skills will not change anything.

[MaurizioAM 919]

1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

The flaw there is that we don't want to, we would be forced if this suggestion gets taken on. So why should those who don't want this be forced to take any skill loss at all? If being forced through yet another server wipe freedom can learn to accept the epic accounts as they are and chaos can take a wipe too for the pleasure.

My view of my suggestion is yes to fully remove the 2x skill gain and adjust the curve making converting skills to freedom easy. But my overall suggestion is leaving players with the option to go through the convert and merged skills or not converting and continuing without the merged skills. The only real thing that changes is the real skill. The adjusted curve should take care of the merged skill loss making it remain even on the epic side. 

 

The only purpose is to allow many players who are infact bored and might want to play another cluster without having to rework all their skills. A full on merger of the way the real skills work could be the solving solution to this. But again if you dont want to convert you wont have to. 

[Aaron_IRL 256]

I voted no, and I'd be curious to know how many votes are from people who will never PvP in Wurm, are so far removed from it they really don't matter anymore, or are just forum alts they acquired with the many characters that have passed through their possession.

 

On 11/13/2015, 5:39:47, Propheteer said:

How:

Epic players would utilize a portal to enter the freedom cluster. Rework the current /transfer feature to swap a characters skillset during this week-long period. (If they type /transfer on a freedom server, it would replace their skills with the ones they had on Epic. Curved skills ignored, actual skills only. No fix for the body stamina.)

I would only consider this if they could accurately reflect what you would have actually earned if you would have leveled on Freedom.

Quote

 

The portal would prevent a drastic flood of high value items and allow for people to bring across their major belongings at the same time.

Zero item transfers.  Items made with inflated skills that you will no longer have the ability to make after the recalculation should all be left on Epic.

Quote

 

Maps:

The Epic maps should be scrapped. As painful as that is, the whole point is to consolidate the population, and the homeservers simply aren't as inhabited as Elevation, and I don't think it's wise to add more maps to further split the population, because as stated, the whole point is to consolidate the population.

I have no stake in this, but I believe that using the /transfer option should be a one-way trip.  Any left behind would have to decide for themselves how they will want to continue.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Aaron_IRL
grammer

[demondan 1,865]

Merging will mean epic is gone and new players won't have 2x skill gain. With all the WU coming out I'm sure that will look more attractive than chaos and freedom with no increased skill gain. This will hurt so bad. 

[Propheteer 7,139]

10 hours ago, SmeJack said:

The flaw there is that we don't want to, we would be forced if this suggestion gets taken on. So why should those who don't want this be forced to take any skill loss at all? If being forced through yet another server wipe freedom can learn to accept the epic accounts as they are and chaos can take a wipe too for the pleasure.

 

Well, you and others don't want to. If you look at Yes, there are a load of people that are interested, and not people that are just my friends.

9 hours ago, Redd said:

 

We dont want this as much as you do. Its just Propheteers group who want to bring all their OP accounts over which have had increase skill gain and very easy access to valrei items. And then you get JK who have been told to vote yes without any real reason just because they're being wiped off of chaos.

 

This will ultimately lose Rolf revenue, from a business stand point i really hope he never even contemplates this. From a game play point of view, we'll end up with half the population on one server because two completely different games have been mashed together.

 

Once again, it's not just "my group". "My group" is very small, lol.

4 hours ago, demondan said:

Merging will mean epic is gone and new players won't have 2x skill gain. With all the WU coming out I'm sure that will look more attractive than chaos and freedom with no increased skill gain. This will hurt so bad. 

 

Epic is in a decline, it's been in a constant decline since it was released. It has spikes, but every spike is smaller than the previous. It's not gaining players by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Keenan 5,539]

1 hour ago, Propheteer said:

 

Well, you and others don't want to. If you look at Yes, there are a load of people that are interested, and not people that are just my friends.

Once again, it's not just "my group". "My group" is very small, lol.

 

Epic is in a decline, it's been in a constant decline since it was released. It has spikes, but every spike is smaller than the previous. It's not gaining players by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I still can't look at the "Yes" votes and see anything more than artificial influence. As I said previously, just one person saying no is enough to sink the idea for me. You've had several from the Epic cluster. I recommend thinking of a better solution and trying to garner actual support for it.

[Propheteer 7,139]

24 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

I'm sorry, but I still can't look at the "Yes" votes and see anything more than artificial influence. As I said previously, just one person saying no is enough to sink the idea for me. You've had several from the Epic cluster. I recommend thinking of a better solution and trying to garner actual support for it.

 

what?

 

like 99% of the votes are actual people. Just because it isn't want you want and just because you may not recognize the name doesn't make it any less valid. There is no perfect solution, there will always be a percentage of people who won't like the change, always. Thinking that this, or anything else that would actually change the game by a fair bit would pass with a 90% or more majority is some very wishful thinking. (i'm actually still laughing at the idiots who think more than 10 votes are alts simply because they don't recognize the names.)

 

I'm not sure what constitutes as actual support in your world.

 

If its my friends voting yes, well, that sucks, some voted no too and i can't help the fact i know people since ive been playing this game forever. It also wouldn't make sense considering over half the no votes are from the same kingdom.

 

If its people making "misinformed decisions", there are people who voted on alts for both yes and no, there are people who voted no because they thought the poll was to make the freedom servers raidable, and there are also people who voted no to "try and rustle some jimmies".

 

Is actual support getting your kingdom to back this decision? It's the only thing i can think of.

 

I can't, i don't.. What went through your head when you made this post? This is almost Hashirama tier.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Propheteer

[aamanus 1,488]

To be honest, I feel that the clusters are too far removed in game style to be merged.  Had Epic run under the same mechanics as the Freedom/Chaos cluster, I'd not have seen any real issue.  As it is, skillgains are significantly different, and not uniform either.  Some items function differently, people would be either be setting up to gain a lot or lose a lot.  I just don't feel there is a fair way to merge the clusters for either side.

 

If people so strongly wish to move to one cluster or the other, either suck it up and grind skills on the other cluster, or sell up and buy an account.  

[SmeJack 5,806]

Seriously lol what do you think anyone could sell if epic and their accounts are deleted and who exactly do you think this nothing can be sold to?

[Redd 4,281]

1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

Seriously lol what do you think anyone could sell if epic and their accounts are deleted and who exactly do you think this nothing can be sold to?

 

What are you even on about? No one said delete the epic accounts...? Aamanus was simply saying the suggestion wouldn't work so instead either grind up a new account on chaos, or sell your epic one and buy one on chaos.

 

His post really wasn't that hard to comprehend o.O

Edited November 26, 2015 by Redd

[Afterburner 30]

+1

[SmeJack 5,806]

So we sell some crappy account that has had its skills all cut in half? Do you wanna buy it? I'll use the 10e to buy a packet of smokes, seems legit for 4 years of game play

 

So yes at that point it may as well have been deleted.