Merge Epic Cluster + Freedom Cluster

[bloodmaster 318]

9 hours ago, whykillme said:

Still waiting for someone to explain me exactly how its fair that epic players ave faster skillgain and how this will work when combining the clusters.

It has literally been stated multiple times in the thread by different players, the curve harms skill gain at higher skill due to it calculating how many skill ticks you get. The higher your skill, the higher it is on the curve. So at 70 you get a lot less skill ticks on epic compared to freedom cluster.

 

The idea was to use an algorithm (basically the reverse of the epic one I imagine) to recalculate their skills to freedom levels without them losing out on any skill they fairly gained compared to Freedom. I don't even play on Epic and I know this, as I read the thread.

[Keenan 5,539]

If something like this can be implemented from Epic to Freedom, then it can be done in reverse as well.

 

The only way I would ever consider agreeing to this is if it was two-way travel, and the cool down for using a portal was increased to 30 days.

 

Reasons!

 

Two-way would be fair. Skills, etc, yadda-yadda aside: There's no fairness in allowing people who have had a completely different environment to come over here. So make it fair, let Freedom come rip it up on Epic  So sure, you can head over here, but we might be over there raiding your deeds.

 

30-days because choices are important. You shouldn't be able to willfully move between two different clusters with all of your skills (and possibly items) in tact.

 

This means you'll have to pick your battles!

[Worksock 465]

4 minutes ago, Keenan said:

If something like this can be implemented from Epic to Freedom, then it can be done in reverse as well.

 

The only way I would ever consider agreeing to this is if it was two-way travel, and the cool down for using a portal was increased to 30 days.

The suggestion is about merging the two playerbases though, so there would be no point in doing this as the whole epic cluster would be shut down.

 

 

[Propheteer 7,139]

On 11/20/2015, 8:42:03, Naio said:

On 11/20/2015, 8:42:03, Naio said:

 

the majority in the poll want it, the majority of people that posted dont want it. wonder why? 

 

oh thats right, cus it takes 15 seconds to make a forum alt and vote on this poll.

the majority in the poll want it, the majority of people that posted dont want it. wonder why? 

 

oh thats right, cus it takes 15 seconds to make a forum alt and vote on this poll.

 

I'm still surprised you stopped posting about alts so quickly.

[Sizan 17]

I voted no because i played a few weeks on epic and i never met that much sick and strange people. I'm sick myself, don't need more of them around.

[Keenan 5,539]

12 hours ago, Worksock said:

The suggestion is about merging the two playerbases though, so there would be no point in doing this as the whole epic cluster would be shut down.

 

 

 

Merging would make game mechanics obsolete and punish a number of players who are happy on Epic. I don't see that happening. My suggestion is just a modified idea. I still voted No though.

 

Honestly, it's hard to not see this as a ploy to get more people for a recently founded Chaos PMK. I don't comment on these issues much, but if you take a look back through the history of these forums, you can see a rather distinct pattern, especially from a specific group of people.

 

[Postinglels 1,270]

15 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Merging would make game mechanics obsolete and punish a number of players who are happy on Epic. I don't see that happening. My suggestion is just a modified idea. I still voted No though.

 

Honestly, it's hard to not see this as a ploy to get more people for a recently founded Chaos PMK. I don't comment on these issues much, but if you take a look back through the history of these forums, you can see a rather distinct pattern, especially from a specific group of people.

 

 

And yet the largest number of negative votes comes from freedom cluster. Hardly indicative of epic players feeling punished. Do explain, or not kek

[Propheteer 7,139]

20 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Merging would make game mechanics obsolete and punish a number of players who are happy on Epic. I don't see that happening. My suggestion is just a modified idea. I still voted No though.

 

Honestly, it's hard to not see this as a ploy to get more people for a recently founded Chaos PMK. I don't comment on these issues much, but if you take a look back through the history of these forums, you can see a rather distinct pattern, especially from a specific group of people.

 

 

Well, if they go to one PMK, whose fault is that?

 

I don't think they will, but if they do then your kingdom has nothing else but to blame its own recruitment policies, its a very large pool of players the thread is discussing.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Propheteer

[Keenan 5,539]

4 minutes ago, Postinglels said:

 

And yet the largest number of negative votes comes from freedom cluster. Hardly indicative of epic players feeling punished. Do explain, or not kek

 

In my opinion, any person who must merge against their will is being punished. As for voting, I don't put much credit in any of these polls - I never have. It's easy to weight them in favor of a single option. I'm also not saying that the idea of a merge is totally wrong. I just don't think it would fix anything, nor do I think it would be fair to people who do want to stay on Epic. Hence my idea of the ability to transfer between with a proper algorithm to modify skills appropriately and a cool down significant enough to stop abuse.

 

Just now, Propheteer said:

 

Well, if they go to one PMK, whose fault is that?

 

I don't think they will, but if they do then your kingdom has nothing else but to blame its own recruitment policies, its a very large pool of players the thread is discussing.

 

I'm not posting about my kingdom. I'm making an observation, as I stated. As a Chaos player, we need more spice. That's something I can get behind... I just don't see this as being the means to that end and I don't think it can be taken seriously considering the timing and the replies involved. Every time folks from Epic take to Chaos - regardless of where they decide to go - this "suggestion" comes back around. I could be wrong, but to someone watching this over the last year or so, it would seem that the motivation for this suggestion is to bring more people over to support that group.

 

As a Freedom cluster player, I would actually love to go the other way! I don't want to play up another character, nor do I want to buy one. I'd love the chance to see what scenarios are all about, to see the differences in the game play without having to commit time. So I do understand the desire to want a merge, I just don't think it's proper (at this time) and I think there might be a better solution that would make more people happy.

 

Does that explain my position better?

[Propheteer 7,139]

1 hour ago, Keenan said:

 

In my opinion, any person who must merge against their will is being punished. As for voting, I don't put much credit in any of these polls - I never have. It's easy to weight them in favor of a single option. I'm also not saying that the idea of a merge is totally wrong. I just don't think it would fix anything, nor do I think it would be fair to people who do want to stay on Epic. Hence my idea of the ability to transfer between with a proper algorithm to modify skills appropriately and a cool down significant enough to stop abuse.

 

 

I'm not posting about my kingdom. I'm making an observation, as I stated. As a Chaos player, we need more spice. That's something I can get behind... I just don't see this as being the means to that end and I don't think it can be taken seriously considering the timing and the replies involved. Every time folks from Epic take to Chaos - regardless of where they decide to go - this "suggestion" comes back around. I could be wrong, but to someone watching this over the last year or so, it would seem that the motivation for this suggestion is to bring more people over to support that group.

 

As a Freedom cluster player, I would actually love to go the other way! I don't want to play up another character, nor do I want to buy one. I'd love the chance to see what scenarios are all about, to see the differences in the game play without having to commit time. So I do understand the desire to want a merge, I just don't think it's proper (at this time) and I think there might be a better solution that would make more people happy.

 

Does that explain my position better?

 

And you are aware of the rate of population decline across the epic cluster? You are aware that the last polls about allowing freedom to go to epic and vice versa without deleting the clusters were shut down fast?

 

At the point where i think the majority of the people who voted no, vote yes, the population will be too low to change the dynamic of the game at all

Edited November 22, 2015 by Propheteer

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Stop ur short term thinking proph, even games like Destiny have a low pop atm with the release of fallout 4 and such.

 

Epic and Freedom wont die. And hopefully wont merge either.

[Outlaw 697]

Or, you know, we could do it the 'fair' way and just make a new cluster, completely unconnected to the current one, never to be connected in future.

Start over.

 

Better map design, new economy, new characters, new world.

Even change the skillgain/action timers, to 2x/3x/whatever, add a couple of the popular mods and have it run officially by Code Club as the new version of Wurm Online.

 

Pristine/Release were great until they eventually connected.

 

It would also give a great opportunity for the devs to make large changes, such as the skillgain rate as mentioned or other gameplay elements, without having people complain about missing out or having 'done it the hard way' in the past etc, as everyone would be playing those new rules from the get go.

 

Of course, leave the old cluster running too for anyone who wishes to stay there. (Assuming it makes financial sense to do so for Rolf)

[Josh 477]

Your solution outlaw still isn't solving the major reason this suggestion was made,to consolidate the player base. Your suggestion was perfectly fine until you mentioned leaving the old cluster running. That completely defeats the purpose

[Propheteer 7,139]

1 hour ago, Outlaw said:

Or, you know, we could do it the 'fair' way and just make a new cluster, completely unconnected to the current one, never to be connected in future.

Start over.

 

Better map design, new economy, new characters, new world.

Even change the skillgain/action timers, to 2x/3x/whatever, add a couple of the popular mods and have it run officially by Code Club as the new version of Wurm Online.

 

Pristine/Release were great until they eventually connected.

 

It would also give a great opportunity for the devs to make large changes, such as the skillgain rate as mentioned or other gameplay elements, without having people complain about missing out or having 'done it the hard way' in the past etc, as everyone would be playing those new rules from the get go.

 

Of course, leave the old cluster running too for anyone who wishes to stay there. (Assuming it makes financial sense to do so for Rolf)

 

So, instead of consolidating the playerbase, you would rather split up even further? Despite the fact both PvP servers are terribly underpopulated?

 

jeez....

[Banzai 664]

Give Epic their in game poll already. 

[Keenan 5,539]

22 minutes ago, Banzai said:

Give Epic their in game poll already. 

 

Unless people are willing to give real life identities to qualify for a poll, any such poll would be useless.

[Propheteer 7,139]

9 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Unless people are willing to give real life identities to qualify for a poll, any such poll would be useless.

 

Not many people had that stance the last few times they were used, i mean i guess we could base it off this forum poll though, either way is a win.

 

i can see why people use that stance though, i mean, 80% of the no votes are from the same kingdom on chaos (one of the most disliked in the game, i might add.)

Edited November 22, 2015 by Propheteer

[Keenan 5,539]

Just now, Propheteer said:

 

Not many people had that stance the last few times they were used, i mean i guess we could base it off this forum poll though, either way is a win.

 

Not many people understand how easy it is to defeat both the forum polls and in-game polls by use of multiple accounts, or if they do they don't wish to mention it?

 

You can't base it on IP addresses, not with free proxies being so easily used. Premium accounts aren't all that expensive to create these days either. Credit cards come in all shapes and sizes as well, especially prepaid ones. Therefore neither in-game nor forum polls are accurate methods to judge the true will of the player base, and I personally wouldn't accept the results of either for anything more than a show of dedication behind the group pushing for the change.

 

If you want real results, you tie each vote to a real individual. One person, one vote. This means you will not have privacy in casting the vote, but that doesn't mean the results cannot be displayed anonymously.

 

You also avoided my point before about creating a method to allow travel between existing clusters. I would much rather easier access to the Epic content than see it dissolve away.

[Propheteer 7,139]

1 minute ago, Keenan said:

 

Not many people understand how easy it is to defeat both the forum polls and in-game polls by use of multiple accounts, or if they do they don't wish to mention it?

 

You can't base it on IP addresses, not with free proxies being so easily used. Premium accounts aren't all that expensive to create these days either. Credit cards come in all shapes and sizes as well, especially prepaid ones. Therefore neither in-game nor forum polls are accurate methods to judge the true will of the player base, and I personally wouldn't accept the results of either for anything more than a show of dedication behind the group pushing for the change.

 

If you want real results, you tie each vote to a real individual. One person, one vote. This means you will not have privacy in casting the vote, but that doesn't mean the results cannot be displayed anonymously.

 

You also avoided my point before about creating a method to allow travel between existing clusters. I would much rather easier access to the Epic content than see it dissolve away.

 

I didn't avoid your point, you just didn't read the thread seeing as how that was suggested about six times in this thread alone, and i mentioned to the majority of those replies that every time it was suggested in its own thread it had almost three times the no votes this poll does.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Propheteer

[whykillme 1,621]

On 21-11-2015 21:04:43, bloodmaster said:

It has literally been stated multiple times in the thread by different players, the curve harms skill gain at higher skill due to it calculating how many skill ticks you get. The higher your skill, the higher it is on the curve. So at 70 you get a lot less skill ticks on epic compared to freedom cluster.

 

The idea was to use an algorithm (basically the reverse of the epic one I imagine) to recalculate their skills to freedom levels without them losing out on any skill they fairly gained compared to Freedom. I don't even play on Epic and I know this, as I read the thread.

 

So just for my view.

 

Freedom:

100 Actions

70 Skill 

 

You get 50 actions with 0.01 gains

 

Epic:

100 Actions

70 Skill > 90 Effective

You get less then 50 actions with the exact same 0.01 gains?

 

Edit:
 

I just read propetheers posts 3 more times, and it clearly says you get the same ticksize as on freedom (so 70 freedom is 70 epic (90 curve)). Both get 0.01 per action for example. 

 

You just get fewer ticks, right?

Edited November 22, 2015 by whykillme

[Propheteer 7,139]

6 minutes ago, whykillme said:

 

So just for my view.

 

Freedom:

100 Actions

70 Skill 

 

You get 50 actions with 0.01 gains

 

Epic:

100 Actions

70 Skill > 90 Effective

You get less then 50 actions with the exact same 0.01 gains?

Freedom

100 Actions, one .01 tick every 3 actions

70 skill

 

Epic:

100 actions

70a/90e

 

On epic, you would start out at .01 tick every 6 actions, and the frequency of the ticks would get less and less common, especially once you hit 99 effective it drops off drastically. The size of the tick is twice the size of what you would get at the actual skill on chaos, so you would get .02.

 

Basically, you get half as many ticks and much less the further you go, with bigger ticks. It's not that hard to grind certain skills, but it is harder to grind others, and much more difficult to grind certain ones. Skills where getting the actual ticks isn't a problem won't be difficult, for instance, but skills where you rely on getting a lot of ticks rather than a large size, it becomes difficult. (For instance, Shieldskills are easier on Epic, harder on Freedom. Woodcutting becomes much harder later on Epic, than it does on Freedom.)

 

Read the OP please.

 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Propheteer

[whykillme 1,621]

Well, you are partly right and partly wrong.

 

Let me try to explain this with your example, woodcutting.

 

Assuming we're using a 1ql tool on Freedom AND Epic and the tool skill is the same as the woodcutting skill. We're cutting walnut trees.

 

Skillticks at skill levels:

 

Freedom: 

70 Skill: 49% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.49 Skillgain

80 Skill: 46% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.46 Skillgain

90 Skill: 41% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.41 Skillgain

95 Skill: 38% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.38 Skillgain

99.9 Skill: 35% Tickrate x 0.01 = 0.35 Skillgain

 

Epic:

 

70 (90 skill): 41% Tickrate x 0.02 (epic) = 0.82 Skillgain

80 (95? skill) 38% Tickrate x 0.02 (epic) = 0.76 Skillgain

90 (99.9? skill) 35% Tickrate x 0.02 (epic) = 0.70 Skillgain

 

So yes, your bonus is not the 2x you were promised all the way to 100, but it is still faster all the way to 100.

 

 

 

[Redd 4,281]

60% say yes.

 

thats a 40% loss in player base and therefore a 40% loss in revenue from Rolf's PvP player base.

 

Can't see this goin through as it would simply kill off to many players.

 

Yes it means we put all the PvP population together, but at what cost?

[bloodmaster 318]

What happens to the 60% if it doesn't happen by your logic Red? They won't be happy either and could also end up quitting over it. Even if only two thirds of the people saying yes quit it would be equal so don't go playing that argument. And will MR-Chaos all quit if it happens then as you seem to make up some of that no vote.

Edited November 23, 2015 by bloodmaster

[Redd 4,281]

They'd have quit by now if they had, that logic is completely flawed (as expected from someone like you).