WO is dead.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Dunno if you are jokeing or if I need to be logged in to see it

[Tikki 65]

thanks for the link. i think in time with mods and stuff WU will overtake wu , could be a year or less but intime it will be the front runner...because no one likes monthly payments

[Stargrace 602]

thanks for the link. i think in time with mods and stuff WU will overtake wu , could be a year or less but intime it will be the front runner...because no one likes monthly payments

 

The only problem with blanket statements like "no one likes" is that there's always someone some place who does in fact like. 

 

I'd much rather play on a Code Club hosted MMO server than on a privately run one - even if it means paying (which isn't actually true anyway, WU is $30, WO is F2P with a subscription option). 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Stargrace

[Clatius 455]

No online game is free to play unless you are stealing internet. And I can't see anyone playing this game F2P for very long. It would get very boring.

[Audrel 2,223]

never mind I messit it up again, let me figure out what happened 

 

 

test

 

http://steamed.kotaku.com/a-lot-of-people-are-using-steam-refunds-1709938036

[FranktheTank 1,901]

Don't worry WU is not totally alive either.

[Outlaw 697]

All this says to me is you better not sell crap on steam or the crap is going to get thrown back in your face. Good, I say. Too many people sell no refund garbage on steam.

 

Steam has so much 'white noise' now it's getting tough to actually find the games worth buying in their store.

The reviews don't even help either as the game devs can edit/censor their games store reviews.

 

I'm somewhat amazed to see 1400/9700 owners online concurrently in WU. That's like 14.5% of everyone who owns WU is online at once.

I thought there would be a lot lower % of concurrent players to owners than that a few weeks after release.

 

As for Steam refunds...the developers all sound shocked saying things like this:

"“Bloody hell steam refund rate has gone from 0.09% to 17%. Methinks people are taking the piss. Here comes DRM again sadly.â€"

 

Well yeah...because before Steam allowed for refunds, it was insanely difficult to get a refund unless you could prove fraud or something. It's not that people didn't want refunds before...it's that they literally couldn't get them.

The only downside to the refund system is that it hurts small/short games...if a game can be completed in under 2 hours, it'll get refunded by a lot of players after fully completing it. Although if a game is truely that short, it should probably be a free game hosted on kongregate or something instead.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Outlaw

[Keenan 5,539]

Anyone considering that people may be refunding to spend their money on the next new/shiny (aka Fallout 4)?

 

Then I also wonder how many people make a habit of doing that. Toss in some money, buy games - play until the limit - refund and move on to the next.

 

Also Brash... good ol' Smedley. I saw that man kill two of my most beloved games, but he does have that right. Sadly too, we end-users are doing this to ourselves. We gravitate towards micro transactions, even if we know better. Even if we know the data proves that you pay more over time on a supposedly "free" game than you would if you purchased it or ran with a subscription. It's the illusion that we have control in those situations. "I'll only buy what I use" - which only works in a rare few situations, if any really.

[Edge 141]

I see no problem with guaranteed refunds with less than 2 hours playtime. You shouldnt rely on tricking people into buying your crap, its not daytime tele-sales. If someone regrets buying your game after less than 2 hours, it was a bad buy, theres no abuse possible from the buyers side. It's solid consumer protection against terrible games and trick/scam sales.

[sunsvortex 599]

WO isnt dead...its "Undead". its been killed a number of times, yet it still walks. Cant kill whats already dead....that takes silver bullets, a knife to the head, or a good ole fashioned exorcism.

 

Its too early to be proclaiming death, however, its future is not the brightest bulb in the bunch. I think WU underperformed even though it looks like pretty decent sales given right at 3 weeks now. Still have xmas coming up so perhaps a few extra sales there, not many, but a few.

 

If WO is to feel some love from WU then some interesting decisions are going to need to be made. The decline in wo numbers (i predict) will continue unless they make some changes or pull something out of thier collective asses to stop the bleeding. The idea that people would play WU and then want to come to WO and stick around is a pipe dream without some changes.

 

Even if private servers start floundering all over the place, if the alternative for players still interested in playing Wurm is WO with current grind settings, they will abandon wurm altogether. Untill WO addresses player retention, WU is a slow, self inflicted wound that will eventually end in pain for players currently in WO. The contrast from playing WU and then going into WO is shocking to say the least. It will be interesting to see if they make the changes necessary to stop the bleeding or let it bleed out and finally be laid to rest.

Edited November 11, 2015 by sunsvortex

[Warlander 2,730]

I found this intriguing article on how common steam refunds are these days:

 

A Lot Of People Are Getting Refunds On Steam

 

http://steamed.kotaku.com/a-lot-of-people-are-using-steam-refunds-1709938036

 

 

 

Completely unrelated (or maybe not) but equally interesting:

Valve Is Not Psyched They Got An 'F' In Customer Service

which might explain why Steam suddenly decided to make getting full refunds super easy for everyone...

As far as I know Valve decided to do that due to German law being, hmm... let's say not really good for Steam policies, and ban in Germany would most likely mean ban in the whole EU. There were a lot of lawsuits due to various Steam-related things, especially lack of refunds and game being considered a service and not product. Otherwise, they would probably never do that (and - to be honest - I still think that they shouldn't, both from player and developer point of view).

[Audrel 2,223]

Anyone considering that people may be refunding to spend their money on the next new/shiny (aka Fallout 4)?

 

Then I also wonder how many people make a habit of doing that. Toss in some money, buy games - play until the limit - refund and move on to the next.

 

Also Brash... good ol' Smedley. I saw that man kill two of my most beloved games, but he does have that right. Sadly too, we end-users are doing this to ourselves. We gravitate towards micro transactions, even if we know better. Even if we know the data proves that you pay more over time on a supposedly "free" game than you would if you purchased it or ran with a subscription. It's the illusion that we have control in those situations. "I'll only buy what I use" - which only works in a rare few situations, if any really.

 

A two hours played/two week limit doesn't make a very good Fallout 4 piggy bank though.

 

 

As far as I know Valve decided to do that due to German law being, hmm... let's say not really good for Steam policies, and ban in Germany would most likely mean ban in the whole EU. There were a lot of lawsuits due to various Steam-related things, especially lack of refunds and game being considered a service and not product. Otherwise, they would probably never do that (and - to be honest - I still think that they shouldn't, both from player and developer point of view).

 

Not to mention losing all those German gamers. Those people game as hard as they work.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Audrel

[Amadee 1,543]

If you look hard enough, it's more likely than not that you'll find what you want to find and see what you want to see.  Human nature.   And since that applies to me as well, I look at all those refunds on WU and therefore conclude that WO will conquer WU and will emerge the victorious victor in this new battle going on in some people's minds.  **smiles sweetly**

 

Personally, I still think WO is going to be just fine

[AlexLong 128]

I doubt WU will damage WO in the long term. After people buy and play WU, they will one day want to play WO. I know I won't be changing much about my WO gaming. Still keeping my deed and toon. 

[Milosanx 716]

WO is not dead, I am still here making bricks...

 

.....we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender....oh that's not my quote!

 

WO will still be here and we have seen many new players come to WO after seeing WU. I'd say we will be seeing more. I think we'll be surprised in how many people that Roared "finally I can make wurm the way I want it, will indeed, get bored of their quick skilling and GM powers and come back to the simulation that I know I enjoy. 

[Keenan 5,539]

WO is not dead, I am still here making bricks...

 

.....we shall fight in the hills;

we shall never surrender....oh that's not my quote!

 

WO will still be here and we have seen many new players come to WO after seeing WU. I'd say we will be seeing more. I think we'll be surprised in how many people that Roared "finally I can make wurm the way I want it, will indeed, get bored of their quick skilling and GM powers and come back to the simulation that I know I enjoy. 

[Miretta 1,415]

it probably is totally unrelated to fallout 4 TOTALLY

 

no seriously, Wurm will be there for a long time I think and rolf even mentioned a few times that even if the servers are getting almost empty, he will probably still continue running them (just look at the game istaria...it's hard to believe they are still running, but they have even smaller community then wurm and they are similarly old)

[silakka 2,360]

When the activity in forums drop, thats when u should be worried.

Even then, Wurm Online is so far from dying.. I wonder if people have seen these dying games even.

Ive tested a ton of games, and some had only 7 people playing in like 4 servers. And they had no problem keeping it up for those 7 folks haha.

[Dairuka 888]

Don't worry. If Wurm dies. It'll respawn at Freedom Market.

 

I'm off to play Fallout 4 now! Toodles!

Edited November 11, 2015 by Dairuka

[Cista 428]

When the activity in forums drop, thats when u should be worried.

Even then, Wurm Online is so far from dying.. I wonder if people have seen these dying games even.

Ive tested a ton of games, and some had only 7 people playing in like 4 servers. And they had no problem keeping it up for those 7 folks haha.

 

Well the bar has certainly changed hasn't it.  In September we were told that WO would double or triple its membership when WU came out. Now that membership is in freefall, you are implying we must be thankful that the game is not closing down altogether. Two months is an eternity for sure.

 

The bottom line of what has happened is that instead of making WO a better game, they chose to launch a competing, similar game that would bring them some fast money. And they tried to sugercoat it as something that would be good for WO. I didn't buy it at the time, and now we are seeing the result.

 

Whether or not they will keep the servers open if there are only 7 people on each is not the issue here  the game is "dying" because the population is in steep decline, losing almost 100 premium members per week. Only 7 people will care if they keep a server open for 7 people or not.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Cista

[silakka 2,360]

you are saying we must be thankful that the game is not closing down altogether.

 

Not saying that.

What I mean is that Wurm is still far from dying when you compare to even less popular games.

[Edge 141]

Well the bar has certainly changed hasn't it.  In September we were told that WO would double or triple its membership when WU came out. Now that membership is in freefall, you are saying we must be thankful that the game is not closing down altogether. Two months is an eternity or what?

[Jberg 3,070]

No, dearest Edge,

 

What was speculated were the long term increase in WO subscriptions. Less than a month is not "long term", I'm sorry. Anyone could predict that a lot of people would be excited to play around in Wurm Unlimited with the GM modes.

 

Albeit - I'll give you that I didn't personally fully count in the amount of replayability the extensive modding support gives - it'll be a hard one. But, at the same time, it'll probably lead to a great amount more WU sales, so who am I to complain.

 

Toodles,

Jberg (One of the doomsday-idiot-lumped staff members)

[rixk 830]

Agreed, Wurm doesn't die any time soon.. As long as wurm generates more income to Rolf, than average programmer salary in Sweden, I think we are ok.

But currently things don't look too good either. Rolf released a game, which main target group are his own players. Also the fact, that he didn't release Wurm Online to Steam shows to me, that even the big man himself doesn't really believe in the success of the formula of WO.

There are many reasons for current situation of course: release of WU, AAA games being released(new Fallout etc), some people just taking breaks, griefers, you name it... the current result is combination of everything. BUT, during the time I have been playing (since early 2012), many AAA titles have been released during these times etc, but I have never seen so many high level characters being sold in such short timeperiod. So whatever the reason is for that, current situation right now is not OK.. And thousands of players, who were hoped to come to WO via WU, haven't arrived (yet).

Let's see where the numbers stabilize, currently it is still about 100+ premiums lost per week. WU sales probably cover it currently, but don't forget, WU players, who have bought it, are not bringing any more money in, one time purchase and that's it, they are gone. Even that doesn't matter, whether they do play it or not.

[Mordraug 2,542]

There's still hope.. the suggestions' thread seems a bit cleaner since WU launched... one can only hope the derailing clan has seen its numbers take a hit.