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Bugged fountains renamed

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Retrograde isn't to blame at all really. He may be strongly against these pans but I doubt it. He owns two.

At least some of us devs feel bad about bugs and imbalances. In general old lingering ones if we think they deter new players. This leads us to try and fix them. I am pretty certain Retrograde just tries to mediate between you and us and explain our view of the situation since we're not here enough to answer ourselves.

 

The outcome of this discussion is strongly based on your input which was negative to change and we want to fix the bug while helping you as much as possible. Our initial alternative has always been to just put the fountains on the ground which is the easy decision.

I am happy that at least some of you understand and appreciate our efforts. It is a bit strange to see the rage that comes from you being able to use the items for another year. I can't think of any better solution to this bugged item.

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I read the nearly 20 pages of the pre-change discussion, so I'm not about to read this one. So many people complain when the devs release a patch that changes something without giving players any notice or input. This time around, they came to the forums and said up front "We want to do something about this, and we want your input" and all they got was page after page of people saying "don't change it" or just generally complaining about the dev team, the game and the community.


 


As it stands, you got your way; for the time being, the items were renamed and remain functionally the same. Your response? Complain about the devs, the game and the community!!


 


And you wonder why the devs rarely come to the forums to discuss the changes they are considering?!? 


 


If anyone needs me (I know they won't), I'll be playing Wurm rather than swimming through the tedious, repetitive vitriol that fills these pages.


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nm not worth it 

Edited by tgod

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Retrograde isn't to blame at all really. He may be strongly against these pans but I doubt it. He owns two.

At least some of us devs feel bad about bugs and imbalances. In general old lingering ones if we think they deter new players. This leads us to try and fix them. I am pretty certain Retrograde just tries to mediate between you and us and explain our view of the situation since we're not here enough to answer ourselves.

 

The outcome of this discussion is strongly based on your input which was negative to change and we want to fix the bug while helping you as much as possible. Our initial alternative has always been to just put the fountains on the ground which is the easy decision.

I am happy that at least some of you understand and appreciate our efforts. It is a bit strange to see the rage that comes from you being able to use the items for another year. I can't think of any better solution to this bugged item.

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Read the post again slick, I bought 1.... 

Also I don't think anyone saw this coming or the value would've dropped before the post saying they were being discussed.  They were allowed for years with little or no mention until a few weeks ago.  

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Let us exchange them 1:1 for a Large Magical chest.  I bet no fountain pans will be left in game after the weekend.

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can we fix permissions for pvp on chaos? the game is still broken

 

Can't bash walls/structures on enemy deeds, can't drop stuff when templar is alive, can't drop in enemy house AT ALL

Can't cast spells on enemy deed.

Can't use sorcery abilities/karma  on enemy deed.

 

and CAN WE REMOVE HUNTED STATUS FROM CHAOS????

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Bye bye legacy items/legacy players. You guys are removing a legacy item that has been in the game for YEARS to please a few broke, cry babies. They should have just been removed in 2008 if you didn't want them in the game, not 8 years later after people invest tons of money in them because you ALLOW them to stay in the game. Those who own them aren't getting an option to trade for a similar item or anything? Just BOOM, see ya! Thank you, come again! Unreal.

BTW, pans do not deter new players. That is the funniest ###### I have heard in a while. It may deter old players, but not new ones. New players don't even know what a fountain pan is and probably couldn't care less for at least the first year or so of playing. And about the rage...you are robbing people of money invested in your game due to actions that you made when the bug was uncovered. People didn't spend 50-80e on a pan that will remain in the game for another year. They purchased them because it was understood (whether you said it or not) that they would remain in the game, without a life timer, as legacy items. Again, if you didn't want the pans in the game, you should have removed them when the bug was found, not 8 years later after a market was created. That is your fault. This game will continue to slowly go down the chute due to one piss-poor decision after another. Just keep on running off your investors. Buncha freakin ass yahwho's.

Edited by Macadelic

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It may be tough for many to lose their fountain pans over the next year - but honestly, this was by far the best option to take in a no-win scenario like this.

 

You're going to piss off a lot less people than you normally would. CodeClub AB is definitely improving, and I'm impressed.

In all the time i have been here i have never myself seen Rolf like a post so you made a good one, lol

 

As far as the changes go they are great in my opinion. I never owned but one of the fountain containers and i sold it pretty quickly because it was not a game supported item but now i can have and use the new features that will come out of them being removed. I can also understand that many priest/merchants use them to store there stock of enchanted goods they are selling but with the new changes to come i am sure you will get more ways to do that as well like with the expanded magic chest if that is one of the planned changes. 

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Retrograde isn't to blame at all really. He may be strongly against these pans but I doubt it. He owns two.

At least some of us devs feel bad about bugs and imbalances. In general old lingering ones if we think they deter new players. This leads us to try and fix them. I am pretty certain Retrograde just tries to mediate between you and us and explain our view of the situation since we're not here enough to answer ourselves.

 

The outcome of this discussion is strongly based on your input which was negative to change and we want to fix the bug while helping you as much as possible. Our initial alternative has always been to just put the fountains on the ground which is the easy decision.

I am happy that at least some of you understand and appreciate our efforts. It is a bit strange to see the rage that comes from you being able to use the items for another year. I can't think of any better solution to this bugged item.

But the whole point of this is that they should have been fixed years and years ago. And the biggest question is: why are they suddenly a huge problem that deserves this much attention? 

Edited by atazs
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Give us the optoon to swap them in at teaders for lrg magical chests.

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Rolf and CodeClub is being more than generous by leaving the bugged items for another year AND working on creating non-bugged replacements.  Stop the whining and be grateful for a change.


 


The only reason the bugged items were not removed right away was because the old (legacy) players screamed bloody murder and threatened to ragequit, and back then the playerbase was small enough to worry Rolf if they did leave.  Times have changed, those legacy players are now a small part of the playerbase, and it's time to make the game fair to new players.  It's time to remove the bugged items.


 


As to how much money you may have spent on them, that really is your own problem.  Rolf did not sell it to you, nor did he set the price.  You knew you were buying a bugged item, and common sense should have told you that bugs get fixed - eventually.  Again I say, be grateful he is being considerate enough to make replacements for them, all he needs to do is remove the bug.  He has no obligation to do anything more than that.


 


And no, you should not get magical chests to replace them.  Those are items Rolf DOES sell to the players, and you should not get one from him for free.  As I said earlier, he didn't sell the bugged item to you, you have no right to expect him to give away expensive items to replace your bugged item.  Be patient and wait to see what they come up with for replacements, you may find he has good ideas.  Besides, a magical chest does not give you as much storage, nor can you put it in a forge or oven, so it comes up short on what the bugged items were used for.


Edited by Vroomfondel
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But the whole point of this is that they should have been fixed years and years ago. And the biggest question is: why are they suddenly a huge problem that deserves this much attention? 

 

Bugs that are not game breaking are always put on a lower priority list. This bug was not game breaking but it was still a bug that goes against the vision of wurm Rolf had. It wasn't suppose to happen but it did and not being game breaking other things like future development content and major game breaking bugs get worked on first. Sometimes a bug can go years before it is finally brought up and worked on. No one cares when a bug gets fixed that has been in the game for years as long as it's not a bug they use to some sort of advantage.

 

The whole point is Why are you and others so upset a bug is getting fixed?

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I find it strange how theres not a single topic found on the forums back when this change was made.


 


Not 1 topic about the patchnotes, not 1 topic of complains or questions. 


 


Was it removed where we can not see it anymore?


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Give us the optoon to swap them in at teaders for lrg magical chests.

if only you could downvote a post lol.

 

nah u should get like 80 iron for it though its only 8 actions to make fountain

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I find it strange how theres not a single topic found on the forums back when this change was made.

 

Not 1 topic about the patchnotes, not 1 topic of complains or questions. 

 

Was it removed where we can not see it anymore?

best I found was apprently eddited by oracle some months after the fix

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/895-stuff-in-carts-what-is-legal-what-is-not/

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20100103021115/http://www.wurmonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

 

Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 08:54:08 PM by Oracle »

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Why not give BOK or something like it that can be heated and hold lots of stuff?  Not sure why they are a problem in game.  I don't own one.  (I don;t pay that much for a purse in real life not paying for a cartoon one.)   But  if people are using for heating large amounts of stuff there has to be items now that can do almost the same thing.  As far as decay goes i have no idea how that works for fountain packs or such, should have taken same decay as all other items in a backpack did.   


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Rolf and CodeClub is being more than generous by leaving the bugged items for another year AND working on creating non-bugged replacements. Stop the whining and be grateful for a change.

It is not a generous move. We are not talking apples-to-apples here.

The only reason the bugged items were not removed right away was because the old (legacy) players screamed bloody murder and threatened to ragequit, and back then the playerbase was small enough to worry Rolf if they did leave. Times have changed, those legacy players are now a small part of the playerbase, and it's time to make the game fair to new players. It's time to remove the bugged items.

So, what you are saying is that it is okay to make a statement (or action) to allow an bugged item to remain in-game while you have a smaller playerbase, but then renege on that statement when the population grows? Business standards of this nature are hardly respectable.

As to how much money you may have spent on them, that really is your own problem. Rolf did not sell it to you, nor did he set the price. You knew you were buying a bugged item, and common sense should have told you that bugs get fixed - eventually. Again I say, be grateful he is being considerate enough to make replacements for them, all he needs to do is remove the bug. He has no obligation to do anything more than that.

No, Code Club did not set the price for the items, but they did set the market for them. Common sense does not tell you that a bug will eventually be fixed when the folks that run the game say (or imply) that the the bug will remain in-game. They have been around for 8 years, not 1 month.

And no, you should not get magical chests to replace them. Those are items Rolf DOES sell to the players, and you should not get one from him for free. As I said earlier, he didn't sell the bugged item to you, you have no right to expect him to give away expensive items to replace your bugged item. Be patient and wait to see what they come up with for replacements, you may find he has good ideas. Besides, a magical chest does not give you as much storage, nor can you put it in a forge or oven, so it comes up short on what the bugged items were used for.

Pans were not given away for good looks. People bought them with real money or coin that was bought with real money. Code Club surely had no problem selling the coin used to buy them. I highly doubt that it will kill them to give the current 8-year old bug owners the option to trade their 8-year old bug for a LMC or similar, non-craftable item. They likely received the funds for a large majority of the 8-year old bug sales anyway through coin purchases. You can keep trying to fault the players for buying these 8-year old bugs, but it just doesn't make sense. Nobody would have bought them if it wasn't stated/implied, 8 years ago, that the items would remain in-game.

One thing that you are spot on about is LMC storage and forge/oven placement. It wouldn't be anywhere close to a fair trade, but it would be better than absolutely nothing at all.

Edited by Macadelic
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Give us the optoon to swap them in at teaders for lrg magical chests.

 

*option *traders

 

So much saltyness in here.

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As to how much money you may have spent on them, that really is your own problem. Rolf did not sell it to you, nor did he set the price. You knew you were buying a bugged item, and common sense should have told you that bugs get fixed - eventually. Again I say, be grateful he is being considerate enough to make replacements for them, all he needs to do is remove the bug. He has no obligation to do anything more than that.

No, Code Club did not set the price for the items, but they did set the market for them. Common sense does not tell you that a bug will eventually be fixed when the folks that run the game say (or imply) that the the bug will remain in-game. They have been around for 8 years, not 1 month.

 

 No they didn't set the price players did. Rolf and dev team never came in game said charge X amount for this item it was all the player base run economy.​

And no, you should not get magical chests to replace them. Those are items Rolf DOES sell to the players, and you should not get one from him for free. As I said earlier, he didn't sell the bugged item to you, you have no right to expect him to give away expensive items to replace your bugged item. Be patient and wait to see what they come up with for replacements, you may find he has good ideas. Besides, a magical chest does not give you as much storage, nor can you put it in a forge or oven, so it comes up short on what the bugged items were used for.

Pans were not given away for good looks. People bought them with real money or coin that was bought with real money. Code Club surely had no problem selling the coin used to buy them. I highly doubt that it will kill them to give the current 8-year old bug owners the option to trade their 8-year old bug for a LMC or similar, non-craftable item. They likely received the funds for a large majority of the 8-year old bug sales anyway through coin purchases. You can keep trying to fault the players for buying these 8-year old bugs, but it just doesn't make sense. Nobody would have bought them if it wasn't stated/implied, 8 years ago, that the items would remain in-game.

Bugs get fixed over time eventually in any game. If you thought this bug will never get fixed some time down the road it is on you. Now if you had spent cash on a item in game that was never bugged then changed I could have sympathy for you but this is not the case. No matter how many times the 4 to 5 of you complaining in here over this it will not change the change or what's about to take place over the next year. Just need to get over it and move on.​

 

 

 

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Just let it go and move on the more you try to debate over whatever side you are on the longer the deal gets dragged out. They have made their minds up and If they would have wanted to give any other compensation they would have posted it here.


 


I am existed about what they will bring new into the game but i also know that it will not be as OP as the fountain containers were.  I myself don't mind if they leave the "unstable source rift" in the game as a decorative object after they fizzle out and close up or whatever but i doubt they will do that.


 


Do they have any graphic look to them now over what they were or no? ( i did not remember seeing any art updates so i am guessing no) 


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Just let it go and move on the more you try to debate over whatever side you are on the longer the deal gets dragged out. They have made their minds up and If they would have wanted to give any other compensation they would have posted it here.

 

I am existed about what they will bring new into the game but i also know that it will not be as OP as the fountain containers were.  I myself don't mind if they leave the "unstable source rift" in the game as a decorative object after they fizzle out and close up or whatever but i doubt they will do that.

 

Do they have any graphic look to them now over what they were or no? ( i did not remember seeing any art updates so i am guessing no) 

 

I would be perfectly happy if it literally had no looks or use but stayed in my inventory as a "reminder" of what it was.

 

 

Ps: They aren't OP......They don't do crap that a Alt can't do, a hota cant do, ect.  people just have no idea that there our other ways to abuse the game's systems that even put the FP to shame. but god forbid anyone mentions them, because then they'll be gone, so instead, vets will shut up - like they always have - and new players will still be screwed over.  Except even more so now.

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At least u guys are able to discuss and talk about it.

As BL most things just get nerfed/removed without any discussion.

Moral of the story: stop crying and keep on wurming

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