My biggest fear realised- Why private servers suck

[Xyp 273]

I wouldn't do that either but the people renting these servers aren't professionals, they're hobbyists and a good portion of them jumped into this without realising what they were getting into. I've seen it happen with other games, people think it's fun to run a server until they find out what's involved and that it cuts into your own gametime.

 

Yep, and that will really start to show itself as a month or two has passed. I am spending as much time working on my server as I do at my real job. However, I love it. It is not for everyone.

[bigsteve 378]

So when I started playing this game my greatest concern was that since Rolf doesn't host the server any more your characters very existence is in the hands of someone who has no monitory incentive to keep the server running. So what does make people host? A love of the game surely? But what happens when that honeymoon period runs out? Well, then they stop hosting, and your character ceases to exist.

Aaaand that just happened. Let me preface this by saying I absolutely love this game, it's seriously awesome! 

 

But BlueFangSolution's London server just decided that after a week to call it quits. 68 Hours of game time totally wasted. Gone. Not only that but I have no way of contacting the guys in my village, who I would like to keep in touch with. It's all really sad, but this situation was foretold by numerous skeptics.

 

And yes I know they'll be numerous people commenting that I should have just joined Wyvern to begin with (as if that's my fault), but at the time I didn't know that server existed, and when you've made friends and invested time into your village you don't fancy starting over. Lakeside Homestead is- was my home.

 

I kind of feel this is a fundamental problem of this game's model. I paid £20 for it, and I have no character security at all. In fact 68 hours of my life has completely been deleted. Thanks a bunch. Nothing to show for it. 

 

If any of the BlueFang guys read this, PM me, I'd love to keep going with you guys.

[Natarthos 0]

You see I only agree to a point. As a software engineer by trade I wouldn't provide a service that featured persistent data as a requirement to be so unprotected, without any safeguards. I don't think my firm would pass ethics on that without humongous warnings about temperamental data.

I spent 40 years as a high end business analyst and programmer and took time along the way to get my MBA.  Any model that does not allow the basic character to be recoverable, even if it is some form of local save but that would invite hackers as some people enjoy nothing more than trying to make the lives of others harder or miserable.  I can think of a few ways around hacking a local save but it would require more programming on the game side and my bet is that the "you lose it, it's your problem" crowd would drown out the "I have a life and don't have unending hours to recreate things" crowd.

 

Oh, flames have no effect so don't bother as you will only add to your chances at carpal tunnel issues down the road and since most flames rarely utilize more than a few chaotic neurons, it does nothing to improve your verbal or mental skills so again, a simple waste of time.  However, honest discourse that exhibits actual original thought will be happily read, considered and often replied to if that is part of the conversation.

[Tux 17]

besides....are admins somehow magically immune to ever being a hacker themselves?

 

Basically the world and all the characters in the map is already are backup-able (is that a word). Its just a matter of WHO can do it. The admin who is going to disappear next week or the player who when the admin shuts down the server can then find a new admin to host the database he just downloaded or both

 

plus. exactly what kind of hacks are we talking about? the kind that nobody would care about other than PvP players and those who make a life concerned with what others do OR are we worried about hard drive wipes? 

Edited November 13, 2015 by Tux

[BadLuckBurt 51]

Basically the world and all the characters in the map is already are backup-able (is that a word). Its just a matter of WHO can do it. The admin who is going to disappear next week or the player who when the admin shuts down the server can then find a new admin to host the database he just downloaded or both

 

Or those players could just host a server themselves to begin with. If you want a backup, just ask an admin. If they don't want to give it, maybe it's time to find another server.

[Outlaw 697]

So what you want is for all private servers to be linked in some sort of private hive setup where you can jump from server to server with the same character?

Yeah...no...that is never going to work for obvious reasons.

 

Your character is tied to each server...if you want to play solo, best bet is to run your own server. If you want to play on a server with others...just know what you're getting in to. WU public servers would be best to use fairly high skillgain/low timers so that people don't have to invest so much time, unless they are sure they will still be running in a few months at least. Some people are definitely committed to hosting long term, however without relying on it financially, even something like the server admin going into hospital etc could lead to it shutting down unexpectedly.

 

I'm not quiet sure what you're annoyed about or why, although I've tried to answer above. WU is for private servers...if they want, they can always form some sort of 'hive', where character data is shared and game rates are equal...although that would require a lot of effort, co-ordination and trust.

 

The idea of WU is to be like a sort of LAN network or w/e that you and some friends can go play Wurm at a expedited rate for a few days/weeks then reset and do again. It isn't really designed with the 'it'll be here forever' idea, however that too will work if a host can manage to pull it off.

Keeping the servers separate is one of the strengths as well as weaknesses of such a design.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Outlaw

[Tux 17]

Or those players could just host a server themselves to begin with. If you want a backup, just ask an admin. If they don't want to give it, maybe it's time to find another server.

 

this just falls in line with my developing theory that wurmains feel that whatever the developers create is perfect and should not be changed under any condition.

 

wat ever bro

[Tux 17]

So what you want is for all private servers to be linked in some sort of private hive setup where you can jump from server to server with the same character?

Yeah...no...that is never going to work for obvious reasons.

 

Your character is tied to each server...if you want to play solo, best bet is to run your own server. If you want to play on a server with others...just know what you're getting in to. WU public servers would be best to use fairly high skillgain/low timers so that people don't have to invest so much time, unless they are sure they will still be running in a few months at least. Some people are definitely committed to hosting long term, however without relying on it financially, even something like the server admin going into hospital etc could lead to it shutting down unexpectedly.

 

I'm not quiet sure what you're annoyed about or why, although I've tried to answer above. WU is for private servers...if they want, they can always form some sort of 'hive', where character data is shared and game rates are equal...although that would require a lot of effort, co-ordination and trust.

 

The idea of WU is to be like a sort of LAN network or w/e that you and some friends can go play Wurm at a expedited rate for a few days/weeks then reset and do again. It isn't really designed with the 'it'll be here forever' idea, however that too will work if a host can manage to pull it off.

Keeping the servers separate is one of the strengths as well as weaknesses of such a design.

 

i pretty much disagree with everything you are saying.

 

'a few weeks'???

 

what the...no....just not even 

[BadLuckBurt 51]

wat ever bro

 

Same to you buddy. I have nothing against change as long as it makes sense. Have a nice day.

[Trake 360]

Tux, please shut up.

[Uberknot 327]

Tux, please shut up.

[Zenity 728]

It's the same three threads over and over again bumping because he is mad and wants a negative ad campaign against the game on the forums.

 

He did on steam and still does now.  he thinks his one man show is going to somehow fix his computer to work without looking at it or trying anything,

 

Obvious trolling they are allowing.

[Outlaw 697]

i pretty much disagree with everything you are saying.

 

'a few weeks'???

 

what the...no....just not even 

 

If you want something to be guaranteed to be up more than a few weeks, either join one of the couple well run/populated WU servers or stick with WO.

It's that simple.

 

95% of the WU servers running are run by inexperienced people who are just looking for some casual fun with buddies, no strings attached. In such cases, it is definitely likely their server will shut down or at least the admins/gms/hosts will move on at some point in the 'near' future. That's just the way things go. (Or people have disputes, backup is lost etc and leads to the collapse of the server)

 

As such, it would be best that such servers aim to have rates high enough that people can progress and enjoy the game fully within a few weeks rather than years like in WO.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a different way to play.

 

If you're going to disagree, at least say why.

[Lolabelle 597]

This is why I have set up a Steam Group and made sure all my villagers are Steam friends.  Everyone knows on my server they can contact me and I can transfer all my backups if I had to.   Also the main reason why I only have my longtime Wurm friends and villagers on my server.  People I trust and those who trust me. 

[Tux 17]

If you want something to be guaranteed to be up more than a few weeks, either join one of the couple well run/populated WU servers or stick with WO.

It's that simple.

 

95% of the WU servers running are run by inexperienced people who are just looking for some casual fun with buddies, no strings attached. In such cases, it is definitely likely their server will shut down or at least the admins/gms/hosts will move on at some point in the 'near' future. That's just the way things go. (Or people have disputes, backup is lost etc and leads to the collapse of the server)

 

As such, it would be best that such servers aim to have rates high enough that people can progress and enjoy the game fully within a few weeks rather than years like in WO.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a different way to play.

 

If you're going to disagree, at least say why.

 

I think your missing what I meant.

 

This game is not designed for a 'few weeks' of play I have no idea where you got the idea that Wurm Unlimited had anywhere even close to that in mind from a design perspective.

 

Unlike many other Multiplayer games I think this game is specifically designed to have a larger player investment in time then most. I am not saying that as a bad thing I am just saying 'a few weeks' doesnt even come close to the design objective here

[Uberknot 327]

I think your missing what I meant.

 

This game is not designed for a 'few weeks' of play I have no idea where you got the idea that Wurm Unlimited had anywhere even close to that in mind from a design perspective.

 

Unlike many other Multiplayer games I think this game is specifically designed to have a larger player investment in time then most. I am not saying that as a bad thing I am just saying 'a few weeks' doesnt even come close to the design objective here

 

daily troll bump II

[PWreset 66]

I had this happenign 4x in Planet explorers,

and 3x in LiF.

 

yes it very much sucks, because private servers are rather much hope and trust in whoever runs the server. But thats exactly why you either play your own server locally or the online version.

 

But then Wurm online isn't safe at all, imagine something might happen ro Rolf, will anyone notice will anyone takecare? will it be gone?

[Keenan 5,539]

Some food for thought.

 

Wurm Unlimited was sold as a personal Wurm experience. This is why it comes with two modes: Creative and Adventure. In this way, your data is as secure as you make it - like any other game you install on your system.

 

Custom servers are a feature offered. It was very clear from the start that absolutely no protections would be offered for these servers, as their intention was to allow small groups of friends to play. They were never intended to be professionally-run commercial servers - and why should they? Wurm Online exists for a reason.

 

This is precisely why I won't move on on to playing any WU server in earnest, not until the weaker ones fold. I've said it before: Many hosting companies offer free time for signing up - so some people have anywhere from 30 to 90 days of hosting without the worry of paying anything. Then there's the stress of being an admin - of handling the server-side tasks, in-game support, and if you plan to make money enough to pay for said hosting, the advertising and innovation needed to stand above the rest. Not everyone is cut out for that, and sooner or later, people will either not see the value in paying for hosting or not feel the worth in stressing themselves out. The few who can pull past all of this, they will offer you the best hope you have at a stable experience.

 

I do hope this also serves as a lesson for current or would-be admins: Understand the burden you are taking on by running a public server! If you are not stable yet, then password lock your server - or at the very least use your MOTD to inform people connecting of that.

[Llurendt 31]

Speaking as an admin relatively new to the whole thing, the hardest part for me is not having much of a player base, though seeing growth in the last week or two has certainly helped! I own the server box and run it from my home, so there are no extra monthly costs other then the negligible increase in the power bill. I've had to learn how to set up the server from scratch (linux server, RAID configuration, etc), run backups, modify the server files and databases, and a bunch of other things I've never done before, but they're all completely worth it. I've also got a website I'm learning to run as well. While this may all make it sound like I'm not a professional, I work quite hard to make sure I'm addressing all the concerns of my player base and to keep improvements coming in.

 

I think what a lot of players fail to do is to learn about WHO is running the server. If you want a stable and long lasting experience, then you need to know who is running the server. Ask questions... hell, make it a full-on interview! Especially on the smaller servers where the admin should have enough time to answer any questions you have. Years ago when I was running a village on Minecraft PvP servers, I interviewed every candidate who wanted to join and we rarely had problems with the people I brought in. It's all about getting to know who you're inviting to be part of (or shape) your experience.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Llurendt

[BadLuckBurt 51]

1 hour ago, Llurendt said:

While this may all make it sound like I'm not a professional, I work quite hard to make sure I'm addressing all the concerns of my player base and to keep improvements coming in.

 

Actually, it sounds like you might be more professional than some 'professionals'

 

I'll give your server a shot sometime this week, I'm thinking about doing a YT sight-seeing tour on the more persistent WU servers after they've been around for a while but I'll need to make sure I have a half-decent char on each server.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Some reasons I choose a "family run" server rather than a public one:

 

* I really don;t know if they truly intend to keep things "free," or if they might decide later to add fees/costs "because the players wanted a real economy" or somesuch. (The Players meaning, a small group that the server admin listens to, or even a serverwide democratic vote, Or WU one day drifts to paid mods (like Steam tried to do to Skyrim)  and a fee is needed to purchase mods. Whatever.).

* On my own server, if somehow I lost everything, it's probably my own fault (which is often easier to tolerate than someone else who suddenly moved, had personal life emergencies, just got a new career/marriage/family, something-something)

* It's hard to keep track of the variety of personal choices the different admins make on such things as: priests, harvests, hostile mobs, skillgain/actiontimers, etc. What if I got used to a system and they changed it, and I hated the change?

* I just like having ultimate control since Wurm is such a huge part of my life right now. I might be less fussy if it were just something to do on weekends etc.  

* Also I am still hoping that they eventually release a true singleplayer offline mode, so that I can play even if the internet is being quirky and unreliable. Its easier for me to have an "online" (for family) and "Offline" (just me, no internet) if it is all on the same computer even if those are two separate worlds/maps/characters.  

 

However not everyone wants to (or can) run their own server, and many (most?) want many more social opportunities.  I would love to see BadLuckBurt do a YouTube look at maybe the Top5 or Top10 servers just to compare and contrast. But that also would likely result in smaller servers losing out even more potential players to the mega servers that get more out of the publicity. So I hope in addition to Top 5/10 there is also a separate show/review on "10 WU servers you probably never tried (but really should)" that looks only at servers with a smaller playerbase (maybe under 15-20 at peak times) but that is interested in growing and has very attractive potential to grow.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[BadLuckBurt 51]

10 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

I would love to see BadLuckBurt do a YouTube look at maybe the Top5 or Top10 servers just to compare and contrast. But that also would likely result in smaller servers losing out even more potential players to the mega servers that get more out of the publicity. So I hope in addition to Top 5/10 there is also a separate show/review on "10 WU servers you probably never tried (but really should)" that looks only at servers with a smaller playerbase (maybe under 15-20 at peak times) but that is interested in growing and has very attractive potential to grow.  

 

Before I get started, I'll make a thread where people can recommend servers they think I should visit. I'm interested in seeing what people create and wether that's on a small or large server doesn't really matter to me.

[PWreset 66]

19 hours ago, Llurendt said:

Speaking as an admin relatively new to the whole thing, the hardest part for me is not having much of a player base, though seeing growth in the last week or two has certainly helped! I own the server box and run it from my home, so there are no extra monthly costs other then the negligible increase in the power bill. I've had to learn how to set up the server from scratch (linux server, RAID configuration, etc), run backups, modify the server files and databases, and a bunch of other things I've never done before, but they're all completely worth it. I've also got a website I'm learning to run as well. While this may all make it sound like I'm not a professional, I work quite hard to make sure I'm addressing all the concerns of my player base and to keep improvements coming in.

 

I think what a lot of players fail to do is to learn about WHO is running the server. If you want a stable and long lasting experience, then you need to know who is running the server. Ask questions... hell, make it a full-on interview! Especially on the smaller servers where the admin should have enough time to answer any questions you have. Years ago when I was running a village on Minecraft PvP servers, I interviewed every candidate who wanted to join and we rarely had problems with the people I brought in. It's all about getting to know who you're inviting to be part of (or shape) your experience.

 

One point is the server list, it is unstable, My Internet serverlist shows totally different results for each refreshing. yet when I have a friend playing on the server I usually play this server always is visible in the friend tab, yet the internet list still does not show it, just sometimes. And So I guess a lot people came on the server, didn't found it again and left. Because the favourites, internet and history tab do not show the server at any refresh. Which may lead some form thinking it's offline and going somewhere else.

 

22 hours ago, Keenan said:

 

Some food for thought.

 

Wurm Unlimited was sold as a personal Wurm experience. This is why it comes with two modes: Creative and Adventure. In this way, your data is as secure as you make it - like any other game you install on your system.

 

Custom servers are a feature offered. It was very clear from the start that absolutely no protections would be offered for these servers, as their intention was to allow small groups of friends to play. They were never intended to be professionally-run commercial servers - and why should they? Wurm Online exists for a reason.

 

This is precisely why I won't move on on to playing any WU server in earnest, not until the weaker ones fold. I've said it before: Many hosting companies offer free time for signing up - so some people have anywhere from 30 to 90 days of hosting without the worry of paying anything. Then there's the stress of being an admin - of handling the server-side tasks, in-game support, and if you plan to make money enough to pay for said hosting, the advertising and innovation needed to stand above the rest. Not everyone is cut out for that, and sooner or later, people will either not see the value in paying for hosting or not feel the worth in stressing themselves out. The few who can pull past all of this, they will offer you the best hope you have at a stable experience.

 

I do hope this also serves as a lesson for current or would-be admins: Understand the burden you are taking on by running a public server! If you are not stable yet, then password lock your server - or at the very least use your MOTD to inform people connecting of that.

 

true, but the  Personal edition is very limited because a lot features are not remade to work for solo gameplay. Many features (spells?, but at least creatures) require many players to be done.