Mega Mod

[Tux 17]

I doubt I will have the time or long term inclination or current skill but from looking at the files last night I think the following 'super mods' are 100% possible.

 

1. A complete conversion of game from Java to C# so that it can be used in the Unity Engine which can result is stunning graphics

2. A completely disconnected from the internet or any LAN base setup or pseudo setup for true single player experience

3. a Sci Fi version of the game. same rule sets just different models.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tux

[tambre 0]

Just some of my thoughts.

 

1. Unity Engine is in my opinion horrible and often not the right tool for the job. It's an useful engine for prototyping, but for long-term it's a hassle to maintain and develop with. A custom made C++ OpenGL client would sound a lot more reasonable. I've been thinking about taking it up myself, once I have more time, as currently graphics and other aspects of the client side feel sluggish and old.

2. This sounds completely reasonable with a new client.

3. Sounds also reasonable. I could imagine there being resource/model/texture packs on the custom clients.

[Xyberviri 0]

1. Games like this don't really need a C family client, what they need is a C family server that doesn't use memory in place of performance.  

2. Technically you can run a client and server on the same machine and connect to 127.0.0.1(or localhost) 

3. Are you bugging my teamspeak? i just talked to my buddy about this yesterday, like literally. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Xyberviri

[BadLuckBurt 51]

I definitely don't have the skill to pull this off but wouldn't something like OpenSceneGraph make more sense than Unity? Unity is an engine and Wurm has it's own engine already so once you'd port Wurm's code to C#++ or whatever flavour you prefer, you'd only need a renderer.

[Tux 17]

Just some of my thoughts.

 

1. Unity Engine is in my opinion horrible and often not the right tool for the job. It's an useful engine for prototyping, but for long-term it's a hassle to maintain and develop with. A custom made C++ OpenGL client would sound a lot more reasonable. I've been thinking about taking it up myself, once I have more time, as currently graphics and other aspects of the client side feel sluggish and old.

2. This sounds completely reasonable with a new client.

3. Sounds also reasonable. I could imagine there being resource/model/texture packs on the custom clients.

 

From my understanding Unity has changed radically in the last few iterations and speaking as a gamer the games I have seen that use Unity now are stunning when balanced into that how quickly they are able to put out updates.

7 Days to Die, Kerbal Space Program, Rust, Subnautica are all using Unity 5

[yarnevk 257]

Shroud of the Avatar is using Unity for its MMO reboot of the Ultima/Ultima Online games.    You completely underestimate what it takes to finish a game, they are the second highest funded Kickstarter game ever with millions of dollars raised for staffs of dozens working on it for years, and they are doing it as an indy outside the huge studio system where budgets are 100x higher.  Unity does save them money because they use the asset stores, but they also realized it costs them money when they budgeted to use the asset store only to find quality not up to their standards so they have to hire more artists to redo work from scratch.  Even just upgrading from Unity 4 to Unity 5 asset quality cost them significant release slips.

 

You also underestimate what it takes to do .java to c# conversions, as well as making use of the Unity API as opposed to third party graphics and sound libraries, which is what you are actually seeing and hearing.  There is a list in the credits what libraries they use, good luck trying to get any of them working with Unity.

 

Interesting to go thru as an educational exercize, but no amount of promising on the forums means it would actually get done.  If it was affordably feasible to do, CodeClub would have had sufficient profit motivation for rewriting the game to a new engine.  And they are the only ones that could do it, just because you figured out how to decompile java that does not give you license to violate copyright law and use that source code to make a new game.

 

A total conversion mod is one where you are replacing the game assets with a new theme, but you are still required to buy the game from the devs to play the conversion.  If you understood game development you would know asset creation has nothing to do with what programming language the game is written in.  By the time you spent years getting assets for a new game, you would only find that it is years later and the state of the art has passed you by and you cannot afford to do any new assets.

 

#2 can already be done by patching the launcher code, legally that would be bypassing Steams DRM.   So could luck with attempting that.  Only the devs can patch the game legally to work without Steam DRM, as there are already games that use Steam only as a download service and work just fine it is entirely possible.  I suspect they will not do it since they outsourced distribution promotion to a company that is in the biz of reselling Steam keys, otherwise they could have put the game on GOG which is a DRM free download service.

 

Also this game already works just fine as a LAN game as long as your steam login works, you are confusing your personal installation capabilities for the install capability of the game.

Edited October 29, 2015 by yarnevk

[Tux 17]

Shroud of the Avatar is using Unity for its MMO reboot of the Ultima/Ultima Online games.    You completely underestimate what it takes to finish a game, they are the second highest funded Kickstarter game ever with millions of dollars of raised for staffs of dozens working on it for years, and they are doing it as an indy outside the huge studio system where budgets are 100x higher.

 

You also underestimate what it takes to do .java to c# conversions, as well as making use of the Unity API as opposed to third party graphics and sound libraries, which is what you are actually seeing and hearing.  There is a list in the credits what libraries they use.

 

Interesting to go thru as an educational exercize, but no amount of promising on the forums means it would actually get done.  If it was affordably feasible to do, CodeClub would have had sufficient profit motivation for rewriting the game to a new engine.  And they are the only ones that could do it, just because you figured out how to decompile java that does not give you license to violate copyright law and use that source code to make a new game.

 

#2 can already be done by patching the launcher code, legally that would be bypassing Steams DRM.   So could luck with attempting that.  Only the devs can patch the game legally to work without Steam DRM, as there are alerady games that use steam only as a download service and work just fine.

 

Yeah I agree that number 1 is likely far more than is reasonable. For all intents and purposes what number 1 is asking me to do is create wurm all over again. I aint doing that I am just blue skying ideas.

 

now regarding the 'single player login' I would pay for that. I would kickstart that.someone please do that because currently my game is dead in the water and I can no longer play and if I am going to open a tech manual to learn how to fix it then I am going to go ahead and learn Unity and Blender instead which is something I have wanted to do for a long time

[Keenan 5,539]

I won't touch Unity. It's a breeding ground for sloppy programming and kids who think "Hello World" makes a game.

 

Now if you said Unreal, that might make me a tiny bit excited.

 

The thing is... Wurm's got a custom engine, and one that's undergoing a rewrite anyway.

 

Also, being a programmer for a while... languages tend to become simply machine dialects. I never understood all this hype to favor one or another. They're tools... yes, you want an appropriate tool for the job, but ultimately it's the skill of the wielder that determines success.

[yarnevk 257]

now regarding the 'single player login' I would pay for that. I would kickstart that.someone please do that because currently my game is dead in the water and I can no longer play and if I am going to open a tech manual to learn how to fix it then I am going to go ahead and learn Unity and Blender instead which is something I have wanted to do for a long time

 

OK that is as good a motivation as any to mod rather than play.  But as I stated in your help request, your issue is you turned off your computer and did other stuff on your network so Windows changed your local LAN IP on reboot.  It truly is as simple as running ipconfig and change the game server IP.  Many people are already playing single player LAN login just fine after some tutoiral help.

 

Look at Life as Feudal for 'motivation'  a bunch of disenchanted Wurm players that thought they could do better. The key is they started from scratch,although game mechanics cannot be copyrighted they can seek inspiration from the skill tree system all they want, what they could never do is even look at Wurm source code and use it.

Edited October 29, 2015 by yarnevk

[Tux 17]

OK that is as good a motivation as any to mod rather than play.  But as I stated in your help request, your issue is you turned off your computer and did other stuff on your network so Windows changed your local LAN IP on reboot.  It truly is as simple as running ipconfig and change the game server IP.  Many people are already playing single player LAN login just fine after some tutoiral help.

 

Look at Life as Feudal for 'motivation'  a bunch of disenchanted Wurm players that thought they could do better. The key is they started from scratch,although game mechanics cannot be copyrighted they can seek inspiration from the skill tree system all they want, what they could never do is even look at Wurm source code and use it.

 

This is hard to explain and I understand why it gets people frustrated but basically I don't want to solve the problem.

What I want is for someone to create a mod so that its never a problem for anyone including new players who might want to return the game if they have to run IPConfig, write down and IP reboot to see if it changed. The shouldn't have to be bothered with that.

 

Now for me personally I have to get better at prioritizing my wants and although I do want to learn modding, networking skills are WAY down on that list

[Tux 17]

I won't touch Unity. It's a breeding ground for sloppy programming and kids who think "Hello World" makes a game.

 

Now if you said Unreal, that might make me a tiny bit excited.

 

The thing is... Wurm's got a custom engine, and one that's undergoing a rewrite anyway.

 

Also, being a programmer for a while... languages tend to become simply machine dialects. I never understood all this hype to favor one or another. They're tools... yes, you want an appropriate tool for the job, but ultimately it's the skill of the wielder that determines success.

 

ouch..

 

you just offended some of my favorite games of all time

 

Kerbal Space Program: favorite

7 days to die: top 5

subnautica

Layers of Fear

Rust

 

not to mention a TON easier to create content for Oculus Rift.

 

I think what most people think about Unity is based on 2002 not 2015

Edited October 29, 2015 by Tux

[Keenan 5,539]

ouch..

 

you just offended some of my favorite games of all time

 

Kerbal Space Program: favorite

7 days to die: top 5

subnautica

Layers of Fear

Rust

 

not to mention a TON easier to create content for Oculus Rift.

 

I think what most people think about Unity is based on 2002 not 2015

 

 

I'm not saying Unity can't lead to good games. I'm saying that sadly, it seems to lead to more half-baked "early access" failures than it does good games. 

[yarnevk 257]

Problem is you will want to run the game to see if your mods work you do have to get your login working, even if you insanely want to make a Unity carbon copy you have to be able to run the original.

 

Yes the devs shoveled MMO networking model into a single player LAN setup exposing something normally only server admins ever see.  But refusing help on principle is not going to get your game working.

Edited October 29, 2015 by yarnevk

[Tux 17]

I'm not saying Unity can't lead to good games. I'm saying that sadly, it seems to lead to more half-baked "early access" failures than it does good games. 

all those games I listed are half-baked 'early access' games

[Tux 17]

Problem is you will want to run the game to see if your mods work you do have to get your login working, even if you insanely want to make a Unity carbon copy you have to be able to run the original.

 

Yes the devs shoveled MMO networking model into a single player LAN setup exposing something normally only server admins ever see.  But refusing help on principle is not going to get your game working.

 

I dont think them having those options is the problem I think having them as the only option to play single player is the problem.

 

Will I make mods for Wurm? unlikely, will decompile the code to take a look at the business rules to get my own ideas and to learn the game programming? 

very likely.

 

will I play Wurm before someone creates a 'single signon' soultion that leaves me confident that I will not loose 6 months of game time due to some networking API I dont understand? highly unlikely.

 

its not a protest its how I dont want to spend my time and yes I find spending my time trying to explain this to the community more satisfying than running Netstat

[cherbert 12]

its not a protest its how I dont want to spend my time and yes I find spending my time trying to explain this to the community more satisfying than running Netstat

 

You seem to want to spend a lot of time teaching everyone how superior you are to everyone else. I see you posting on Steam forums and here with the same message that you are here to educate everyone in your awesome modding and programming skills yet always in the same breath state how you don't have the time or the inclination. Your posts are very egotistical.

 

Converting Wurm to any other engine is a monumental task even for a large team of people let alone an individual. Besides, an improvement in the rendering engine for Wurm is already underway. Personally I don't feel the graphics are bad at all - I have seen some stunning views in my world. Its the gameplay the matters most. Wurm Online has been in development for years. The current devs are hard at work trying to improve it and Wurm Unlimited has just launched. I just think its a tad disrespectful to jump into the official forums suggesting it could be re-written in Unity.

 

For someone so skilled and constantly going on about netstat I find it astonishing you still can't get a local server working on your machine. Maybe you should focus on getting the game working on your computer before even suggesting a re-write in Unity.

 

As I see your posts all over the place stating the same issues can you please explain in detail why you can't connect to your server? If DHCP is the issue then all you need do is give your server a static local IP like 192.168.1.x or whatever your local range is.

Edited October 30, 2015 by cherbert

[Tux 17]

You seem to want to spend a lot of time teaching everyone how superior you are to everyone else. I see you posting on Steam forums and here with the same message that you are here to educate everyone in your awesome modding and programming skills yet always in the same breath state how you don't have the time or the inclination. Your posts are very egotistical.

 

Converting Wurm to any other engine is a monumental task even for a large team of people let alone an individual. Besides, an improvement in the rendering engine for Wurm is already underway. Personally I don't feel the graphics are bad at all - I have seen some stunning views in my world. Its the gameplay the matters most. Wurm Online has been in development for years. The current devs are hard at work trying to improve it and Wurm Unlimited has just launched. I just think its a tad disrespectful to jump into the official forums suggesting it could be re-written in Unity.

 

For someone so skilled and constantly going on about netstat I find it astonishing you still can't get a local server working on your machine. Maybe you should focus on getting the game working on your computer before even suggesting a re-write in Unity.

 

As I see your posts all over the place stating the same issues can you please explain in detail why you can't connect to your server? If DHCP is the issue then all you need do is give your server a static local IP like 192.168.1.x or whatever your local range is.

 

I have had a continuous problem trying to explain myself and in all honesty I can understand why its hard to grasp because on the surface its a strange statement to make but I will try to explain.

 

'I don't want my problem solved I want my issue to be automated'

 

why would I say that? Why would I be willing to not play the game until the automation happens? well let me try to explain in detail

 

Although this game is great and one of the best games around given recicent improvements in the gaming industry as a whole over the past two years it is not the only option for a LOT of fun.

 

So..

 

I don't want to know what a DHCP is and I am willing to play a different game in order to not know what a DHCP.

I know that sounds crazy but here is why.

Before I start a game and invest 6 months of game time I want to have a high level of confidence that I will not loose my game because of a network hack, network lack of understanding on my part thus for me to manually configure my launcher I want to have a very high level of confidence that I am doing everytrhing correctly, securely and to a point where I will not loose my game data.

 

Given that I don't even want to know what a DHCP is, I think its better for me to do something else with my time until the devs or modding community become aware of this. If they don't that is fine as well I will just play other games. I have more games then I have time to play anyway

[cherbert 12]

I have had a continuous problem trying to explain myself and in all honesty I can understand why its hard to grasp because on the surface its a strange statement to make but I will try to explain.

 

'I don't want my problem solved I want my issue to be automated'

 

why would I say that? Why would I be willing to not play the game until the automation happens? well let me try to explain in detail

 

Although this game is great and one of the best games around given recicent improvements in the gaming industry as a whole over the past two years it is not the only option for a LOT of fun.

 

So..

 

I don't want to know what a DHCP is and I am willing to play a different game in order to not know what a DHCP.

I know that sounds crazy but here is why.

Before I start a game and invest 6 months of game time I want to have a high level of confidence that I will not loose my game because of a network hack, network lack of understanding on my part thus for me to manually configure my launcher I want to have a very high level of confidence that I am doing everytrhing correctly, securely and to a point where I will not loose my game data.

 

Given that I don't even want to know what a DHCP is, I think its better for me to do something else with my time until the devs or modding community become aware of this. If they don't that is fine as well I will just play other games. I have more games then I have time to play anyway

 

If you have no idea what DHCP is and if you consider changing your IP to be a hack then all your grandiose claims of being a developer appear to me to be false. What chance of converting Wurm to Unity have you got if you claim to not even know what DHCP is? You go on about your knowledge of netstat quite a bit over here and on Steam forums but you don't know what DHCP is?

 

I kind of see what you are getting at in that the game launcher should really be a seamless experience for those who want a simple single player game. But.. I really don't think its that difficult to fire up a server. And if you have some issue whereby your primary IP address has changed then its not that difficult to change it to a local static IP and is far from being considered a hack. Plenty of gamers spend vast amounts of time playing around with dedicated servers and messing with their IP's. It should be simple elementary stuff for someone of your background. But I suspect you aren't being completely honest about that.

 

I don't see why you fear loosing stuff so much. Stop being so stubborn and learn a little bit about your problem rather than waiting for the single launch solution you seek, because it isn't coming. That would mean a fundamental change to the entire codebase of Wurm. No matter how simple they make the launcher it will ALWAYS rely on a local server and you will ALWAYS require some minimal knowledge of DHCP and static/dynamic IP addressing.

 

If your machine has Norton Security or McAfee Security then thats just going to break everything. Those horrible Firewall programs will block your internal networking in Windows and you should remove them. Windows does a good enough job of blocking external traffic as will your local router.

 

If you have desires to code games and plugins you will be doing yourself a favor by learning as much as you can about networking.

 

You said before you had a lot of experience with Neverwinter Nights? Well that game required a similar configuration of DHCP and IP address allocation. But maybe you never ran your own server?

Edited October 30, 2015 by cherbert

[Tux 17]

If you have no idea what DHCP is and if you consider changing your IP to be a hack then all your grandiose claims of being a developer appear ...

 

Do you know how to do Sharepoint development? do you know how to make a content type? maybe an ASP.net control, Ajax? How do you attach a debugger? whats a Try Catch Block? IS IEnumerable needed on Classes using .Net 2.0 or higher? or do most collection objects already have it in the class?

 

see what people dont seem to understand is that not all development skills require networking knowedge, many developers have IT admins to handle all that while we dig around in javascript.

 

I dont want to know what DCHP is and I dont expect a lot of developers to know and I REALLY dont expect gamers to know.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tux

[cherbert 12]

Do you know how to do Sharepoint development? do you know how to make a content type? maybe an ASP.net control, Ajax? How do you attach a debugger? whats a Try Catch Block? IS IEnumerable needed on Classes using .Net 2.0 or higher? or do most collection objects already have it in the class?

 

see what people dont seem to understand is that not all development skills require networking knowedge, many developers have IT admins to handle all that while we dig around in javascript.

 

I dont want to know what DCHP is and I dont expect a lot of developers to know and I REALLY dont expect gamers to know.

 

Yes I know how to do all that. I am a Software Developer by trade and have been a developer for over 20 years. I work with lots of developers and even Graphic Designers. All of them have some knowledge of networking. If I had a developer come to my company and say they didn't know what DHCP was I wouldn't hire them.

 

IP addresses, DHCP, routing.. its all basic stuff of how the internet works. How can you possibly claim to be a .NET developer and throw around terminology like Ajax, .net and Content Types but you don't know what DHCP is?!? I'm sorry but that is just very strange to me.

 

But like I said before.. lets assume you don't. It would be in your best interest to start learning. It might help further your career and complement the skills you already have and give you a greater overall knowledge of your chosen field.

Edited October 30, 2015 by cherbert

[Tux 17]

Yes I know how to do all that. I am a Software Developer by trade and have been a developer for over 20 years. I work with lots of developers and even Graphic Designers. All of them have some knowledge of networking. If I had a developer come to my company and say they didn't know what DHCP was I wouldn't hire them.

 

IP addresses, DHCP, routing.. its all basic stuff of how the internet works. How can you possibly claim to be a .NET developer and throw around terminology like Ajax, .net and Content Types but you don't know what DHCP is?!? I'm sorry but that is just very strange to me.

 

But like I said before.. lets assume you don't. It would be in your best interest to start learning. It might help further your career and complement the skills you already have and give you a greater overall knowledge of your chosen field.

 

Then you SHOULD know as a developer that knowing what DHCP is not required or often not even helpful in some roles.

 

That said I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY want to help you focus on what the point and issue here is.

 

There is only ONE part of this story to focus on

 

SHOULD ALL GAMERS KNOW DHCP IN ORDER TO PLAY

 

 

we can techy sword fight later that is a different conversation

 

ALSO..

 

if you read my OP you will see the first line in it says

 

'I doubt I will have the time or long term inclination or current skill but from looking at the files last night I think the following 'super mods' are 100% possible.'

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tux

[Ricowan 199]

I think the better question is: Should all gamers be server admins?  And the answer to that is no.

You do not have to be a server admin to play Wurm Unlimited.  If you want to be a server admin, and run Wurm Unlimited as a stand alone server, then you absolutely need to know networking.

[ftoz 122]

Unity is javascripts supported, so not need rewrite anything only add and wired. Javascripts is little outdated. Its old fashion programming. Syntax is out. Its not portable. If someone wants do some proper mod, so good luck. Its better to rewrite

[ftoz 122]

Important is goal, which many ppl still forget. Y mean if rewrite all code to something else and add 3d engine, will more players play it? LiF, there is about 3 years work with good team, they are old wurm players. Seems they go to way wurm idea with better graphic. LiF is torque3D, so open source can allow modify engine to add terraforming, tunneling. So hard work for them and they are still at beginning. Goal is for me important. Y want earn on game? Create something great art piece? Manage yourself to do that? Editing foreign code with no reason? Maybe y should share more ideas to create team for next work.

Edited October 31, 2015 by ftoz

[ftoz 122]

I like czech developer game Kingdom come. Their game fights are almost realistic. 

 

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVdEqlud8Sg

 

Problem can be what another features game brings. If it will be better playable movie, so hyperrealistic graphic doesnt save it. Simply better graphic, harder mechanic implement.