Posted October 30, 2015 I'm sorry, but one thing is knowing that its ok to trade a character, another thing is trading in a item YOU KNOW was born out of an exploit, and then thinking its not ok that its removed? It should have never been allowed to be kept in the first place, the fact that you got to keep enjoying the benefits of an exploit that no one legitimately could enjoy this far (also called an unfair advantage, something that most games would ban people for exploiting) is already more than your money's worth! Furthermore, this is AWESOME publicity for a game going on steam now. This game lets you keep the exploited items! Haxxors welcome! That is the thing, it is not those exploiters any more, who are enjoying the benefits from this.. Like I said, it has become a feature already. Those items should've been removed, yes... but at the same time when this bug was fixed, or shortly after. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Retro, make sure to step back and read what Mith posted. This sort of thing is extremely true, he hit it home with that. These items are not only used to help other players bgy those who own them, but can keep their things safe for their return. Imagine if you removed all of the post-casual players from wurm? Probably a pretty huge player-dropoff.You want to remove Fountain Pans, that is fine. but we are telling you that if you do, players in this game *need* a way of storing a LOT of items in a very small, transportable no-worry-zone where you can just let it sit till it is needed again. Wurm is far too much maintenance for some, and for those players these items are and have been the only solution. If the team doesn't like the idea of an item that can do what I just described they really should just stop what they're doing and actually try playing their own game for a few months. Maybe then you would understand.Sounds like they are willing to alter Magic Chest and Forge/Ovens as a compromise Maybe helpful to tell the Developers what is a acceptable size change for Magic Chest for Veteran players or how many in bag units you are holding if you have pan/bag fountains? Also if you use these items in the forge how much ore you normally use for it, and also how many pans are you using for cooking? Also state if you use it for another purpose not stated Quite a few people are Yelling this is not acceptable but are refusing to give the developers specific info, which could also help players without panbagsFoundains Edited October 30, 2015 by enoofu 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I do not see the issue, really. They are a bugged item? yesEveryone knows this? yesEveryone purchased them even if they knew it was bugged? yesBugged items do get deleted from time to time, because they are...bugged? yes So where's the problem? Just delete them. It is the player's fault that these bugged items were perpetuated and increased in value along the way. It makes no sense to keep such items (or such people that threaten to quit if you remove x or y KNOWN bugs) around BESIDES, who invests money in a game they cannot afford to lose? AFAIK there is a no refund policy anyways in the EULA Edited October 30, 2015 by Thorakkanath 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I do not see the issue, really. They are a bugged item? yes Everyone knows this? yes Everyone purchased them even if they knew it was bugged? yes Bugged items do get deleted from time to time, because they are...bugged? yes So where's the problem? Just delete them. It is the player's fault that these bugged items were perpetuated and increased in value along the way. It makes no sense to keep such items (or such people that threaten to quit if you remove x or y KNOWN bugs) around BESIDES, who invests money in a game they cannot afford to lose? AFAIK there is a no refund policy anyways in the EULA Lol. This guy. Well, we know one thing for sure. You don't own one. It is very evident who has and hasn't invested money into one of these awesome legacy items. I can just smell the jealousy in the air. HIIIII HATERRSS! o/ Edited October 30, 2015 by Macadelic 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 It should have never been allowed to be kept in the first place Exactly. But since it was, and since it was traded right here in the forums... You can't let something go on for years and then suddenly cry foul. What SHOULD happen is the software should be tested before it even gets released. The users are not the QC staff. I wouldn't give an argument if on Friday a bug was accidentally released that let fountain pans be made, and on Monday it was announced "ok all the fountain pans have to go." Of course. You're arguing in support of lax solutions to buggy software. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Exactly. But since it was, and since it was traded right here in the forums... You can't let something go on for years and then suddenly cry foul. What SHOULD happen is the software should be tested before it even gets released. The users are not the QC staff. I wouldn't give an argument if on Friday a bug was accidentally released that let fountain pans be made, and on Monday it was announced "ok all the fountain pans have to go." Of course. You're arguing in support of lax solutions to buggy software. Precisely. But nah. Instead, we will just say that "the existing ones will remain in the game as legacy items." This way a market will be created for them and people will spend tons of real money on them. Then, after 7 years pass by and we rake in all the cash that people spent to buy the coin used to purchase these items, we will just delete or hinder the item making it virtually worthless. Once that is done, we can create a new, similar item that we can sell on traders. This item will be easier to find/obtain and be infinitely produced, which means we should rake in even more money. To be quite honest, it is a really a pretty smart scheme. Edited October 30, 2015 by Macadelic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 It is the player's fault that these bugged items were perpetuated and increased in value along the way. Whoa. Back 'em up. First fault is the software updates were not tested before they were released. I'm only playing some years but it appears to me that there isn't even a single QC check before updates are released. I feel this is certain because I remember for one round, not a SINGLE Mac user could log in. It wasn't a question of which Mac - NO Mac. One single test of trying to log in with a Mac would have made this evident. Second fault was not removing the "buggy" pans immediately. Third fault was not removing them the first time someone tried to sell one in the forums. Fourth fault is, nothing is ever documented. We have to play guessing games to know if things are features or bugs. I think I'd even venture a fifth fault in that people are placing a great value on larger forges and getting rid of decay, and this issue was not addressed ages ago. At least it looks like now it might. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 Precisely. But nah. Instead, we will just say that "the existing ones will remain in the game as legacy items." This way a market will be created for them and people will spend tons of real money on them. Then, after 7 years pass by and we rake in all the cash that people spent to buy the coin used to purchase these items, we will just delete or hinder the item making it virtually worthless. Once that is done, we can create a new, similar item that we can sell on traders. This item will be easier to find/obtain and be infinitely produced, which means we will rake in even more money. It is a really smart scheme to be honest. I see your point, and yes it makes financial sense. Except you don't piss off your customers who were obviously willing to invest a lot of money into your game. Make the functionality available to all, but don't suddenly hammer your investors. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I see your point, and yes it makes financial sense. Except you don't piss off your customers who were obviously willing to invest a lot of money into your game. Make the functionality available to all, but don't suddenly hammer your investors.I couldn't agree more. However, the investors will get the hammer either way. Even if the pans stay, if a new item is released that produces the same result and is readily available on a trader, the value of fountain pans will diminish quickly. The entire situation is utter bs. Edited October 30, 2015 by Macadelic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Sounds like they are willing to alter Magic Chest and Forge/Ovens as a compromise Maybe helpful to tell the Developers what is a acceptable size change for Magic Chest for Veteran players or how many in bag units you are holding if you have pan/bag fountains? Also if you use these items in the forge how much ore you normally use for it, and also how many pans are you using for cooking? Also state if you use it for another purpose not stated Quite a few people are Yelling this is not acceptable but are refusing to give the developers specific info, which could also help players without panbagsFoundains In answer to your questions, what they are being used for (the ones I know of): 1. Smelting setup for a person grinding to 100 mining: Three fountain pans inside a steel large magical chest, giving three times the single fountain pan's smelting ores capacity at one time. On occasion, one pan is used to keep pottery bowls numbered in different Ql ranges to place the lumps into as they smelt, while the other two are then used to smelt ores. This setup is moved along with the person grinding to 100, as he produces a substantial amount of ores to be smelted and stored, to be used later on for imping and creating, given away, etc. This means this setup has to be moved from place to place along with the char using them, obviously to go where the veins giving best gains are, which is all over. This setup is also used while serious black and weapon smithing is being done, with the pans holding larger amounts of various lumps to be kept glowing all at the one time, and then left just like that inside the magical chest in between imping sessions to keep the very valuable high ql ores safe from decay and/or poofing. 2. One small magical chest with a fountain pan inside inside a cart, for storage and no decay of said ores and other valuable stuff like some rare tools etc. All of these four mentioned are pans, not satchels, so can be used in forges as well. You can see how making them immovable would render the use of them for the miner/smith pretty much useless. Edit, also forgot to mention that the cart goes with the owner on ships too, so the pan and magical chest gets removed for these travels, and placed back on arrival at destinations. Painting ships for friends was just incidental, this was not why they were purchased. Once again a request that the pans stay in game with current functionality, if you want to rename that is fine. Edited October 30, 2015 by Fairyshine 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Do not worry... Long time players loyal customers are going to make as painless as possible when they stop paying subs.No I don't own one... But just having too much fun in WU for now...You really doing this in the wrong moment guys... Too late is too late....yeah its your call Edited October 31, 2015 by topkos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2015 -Increase forge capacity to hold 100 ore-On deed with more than 30 days paid upkeep: no decay on all tools, weapons, armor, lumps. Ever. PERIOD. -Increase capacity of SMC and LMC by 2x-do whatever you want with FPs, problem solved already bro 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2015 What are all the beneficial effects of the fountain pans? So far I see you can store a lot of things in one place; the things don't decay; you can heat up a lot of items without dealing with the drudgery of moving small bits at a time. What else? I'd love all of these functions. How about making: - expanded-capacity forges, either craftable or buyable or both - large-capacity storage items that nullify decay of all things, including fish and meals and raw meats, either craftable or buyable or both - whatever the heck else nice function these items have, either craftable or buyable or both - remove all on-deed decay (please I don't want to hear the argument that stuff on deed bogs down the game - the items in bins are just spreadsheet numbers, and the stuff that gets repaired gets repaired to the time-wasting frustration of most, and it's still there on the server, only it necessitated many more server interactions to keep it there) Obviously players want these functions, or no one would have paid high prices for the pans. If for some reason the code of these items within items is making some disaster, and you truly must remove the pans, give the current owners any and all items needed to replace the functionality that the pans had. And maybe a present. If a player enjoys decay, or moving ores a few at a time over some hours, well then they don't have to use the expanded capacity items. Maybe to make them happy you can even make mini-capacity forges that only heat like 7 ores at a time, so they can have even more busy work. And maybe there can be a mini cool-down forge, that only holds 3 lumps, so you have to heat 7 ores, cool three of the lumps, move the three into a bin, move three more from the mini forge to the mini cool-down forge, and if you're really fantastic you can coordinate sticking fresh ores into the forge while three are cooling, etc. And maybe you can make some kind of "paint" that can be applied to items on deed that will cause them to have super fast decay, necessitating constant repair. Make sure the paint needs to be made by someone who has at least 55 alchemy and 65 muscles of some sort, and even then will have a failure rate over 80%, and you have to mix it using clay flasks with 4 acorns in them, and pour that off 16 times at a proper ratio into a huge barrel that contains x gallons of mash made from the milk of a black sheep and maple syrup harvested at night within four tiles of a hell hound. There must be a 25-minute wait between each pouring. The painted item can then take on a special glow, and will be renamed "Honorable Mega-Decay (well, bin, etc.) of the True Warrior." "This is a Super Illustrious instance of a (well, etc.) that has been inbued with a most noble tincture of true grit, only found amongst the most esteemed and dedicated Wurmians on the whole server. It will f_cking decay instantly if it is not repaired within a 36-hour timeframe, day after day." ** Problem solved. ** Oops. Edit to add: "This item may NOT be purchased from a trader." for the reader's convenience I've read through 17 pages and highlighted the best post in this thread 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 1, 2015 Well, whatever happens next, please communicate it well in advance of any actual actions taken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 1, 2015 I think a verdict has been reached. Leave these be, worry about the real problems. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 1, 2015 I think a verdict has been reached. Leave these be, worry about the real problems. FTW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 1, 2015 Hi Everyone, I'd like to say thank you for all the input you've given us over the week of this discussion, There has certainly been a lot of input and there is a lot to go over, I'll be locking this thread now while we look at possible options. We will let you know of any changes prior to them going live. Regards,Retrograde 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites