FOUNTAIN-PAN REVISION - CLOSES NOV 1st

[Miretta 1,415]

maybe give those people who own one a title as compensation, so they can brag that they owned it once : "panholder of the void" 

or something like that XD

[MrGARY 12,421]

It's pretty simple imo.  Rename them to something else as suggested, but leave functionality the same otherwise. 

 

Now, to solve problems and allow everyone to have the benefit, continue making them useless to have.  Dying things was covered, give us a smelting furnace that can smelt 100 ore, increase the size of magic chests.  If people have no reason to buy fountain containers, then they will slowly die off at their own pace without upsetting anyone other than people wanting to make money off them.  The only use left will be the bragging rights of a legacy item that means nothing anymore

[Booskii 379]

I bought mine roughly a year ago when we as an alliance decided to open a market as I enjoy dying thing making dye the whole dye process!!

I wanted to offer a service that was hard to find I dis not charge more for being able to use the container even when no dye was bought I would still offer the use. I also worked hard to earn that money. The fast it was in game earned or not does not matter. It was an item available for 4+ years before I got mine. 4 years in the eyes if most looks

Pretty safe. Then I bought a small magic cheat another investment into the game.

Now we have arguments of that it's an advantage to some but not others...

So is brake and scale armor yes?

1. If they were gone when you started playing ...oh well pay money

2. Reapawns! Awsome right?...they drop to little now we demand more drops its so much work!!

3.Drops increased!!

So we have now a but more drops and legs efforts but there sail lining the pockets of the ones who do private saying...

Years ago I also remember that area were so mert easy to make with a canceled action until you see the green swirl..that was fixed but as others have said those rares made from a bug? Were allowed to remain even after the bug was fix.

Yes I own a fountain container yes I paied hard earned money for it. But how is this even more..unbalanced, unfair, op even then any of the other quirks about wurm. My personal option is to change the name leave it in they will slowly vanish over time with forgotten players disbanded deeds. Compared to other items they are harmless.

Regards

Booskii

[Milso 50]

Expand Large Magic Chest to match size and replace all "Source Rift"  with a Large Magic Chest.

[MamaDarkness 880]

You could just have the forge size increase to allow 100 ore as an option too instead of a separate smelter.

[whykillme 1,621]

The 3rd part is people that dont care that other people have them.

 

How big is the group of people that actually see them as game breaking and want them removed? 

They have no real advantage anywhere except for easy storage. Its not breaking anything on Freedom and surely it isnt on PvP. 

I really wonder who those people that strongly dislike them are and what their real reason is... "He can smelt ore twice as fast".. "He can store twice as many items in his chest".. ? Those people that are complaining, why? Don't say "BECAUSE ITS A BUG", THE SHOULDNT BE". Is that the only reason?... Why?

Id go with source rifts obviously but that "strongly dislike group" would still complain because they are still in the game. Doesn't actually change anything?

[Ohana 907]

You could just have the forge size increase to allow 100 ore as an option too instead of a separate smelter.

The fix to ovens let them hold a cauldron is a good example of increasing a current limit.

A new smelter or increase volume on old it's a win either way.

[Gavin 971]

Make a huge furnace that smelts loads of ore (hundreds at a time) with large building requirements (ie like a guard tower)

Make a huge magical chest that holds the equivalent of a fountain for 1G, or increase large magical chest capacity

 

Problem solved, no reason to even have a fountain pack. No one cares if they are ingame or not then (but if you remove them at least give it a little while)

 

 

The only reason people pay so much for the fountain pans is because the game is much harder without them, the fact so many people pay for them and 600 of them exist should be seen as proof something should be changed with the game as clearly there is something really frustrating about storage of items, or smelting ores.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Gavin

[Kegan 3,926]

You could just have the forge size increase to allow 100 ore as an option too instead of a separate smelter.

I like the idea of more things in the game gives people more to do and it also gives more things to decorate with so i would prefer a separate smelter. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Kegan

[MisterTeddy 284]

1. it has been stated by GMs that flat-raising is an exploit, thus dirt walls are an exploit, meaning every serious PvP player is an exploiter for building or benefiting from the only viable method of constructing a deed that can withstand an enemy raid force on a PvP server; by the above logic, these deeds (literally every deed on Elevation and Chaos and many on home servers) should be disbanded or at the very least have their terrain leveled because they are exploited

 

2. many exploits have gone with very minimal or no punishment at all - some that have had much greater effects

 

3. now that the effectiveness of fountain containers is available to everyone and those who have actual fountain containers only have an aesthetically different epeen boosting item, it makes absolutely no sense to remove fountain containers just because others "don't have them"; everyone has the functionality, just not the nostaligia

 

TLDR keep them as they are, they aren't hurting anyone anymore

[Sklo:D 2,210]

Yup agreed

[Maiya 490]

well

if its not broken don't fix it 

you will probably break something else while fixing this ./

 

I don't own this item

I don't envy those that do

If I wanted one I could buy one when they was for sale 

 

This been in game for soo long time now and since its not breaking anything atm then

don't fix what isn't broken 

spend time on stuff that is broken instead 

 

No need for changing the name or make something like M-chest change volume

If you want to change the magic chest  then do it  but not cause you want to change this item

 

 

so my conclusion is 

Don't fix stuff that isn't broken, work on broken stuff instead 

[Kegan 3,926]

It would be interesting to know out of the 600 that are in the game how many are owned by one person or group that sell them off as they need money.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Kegan

[Sklo:D 2,210]

I can't really believe that there are juat 600 there must be more...

[enoofu 206]

Don't really see how  they can fix them without increasing their decay and making them non fixable  since a lot of the few people with them use them nested inside another nested fountain bag(s), will probably cause more problems then is solves by turning them into another item

[Kegan 3,926]

I can't really believe that there are juat 600 there must be more...

Well that is what the OP said and seeing how there is probably only 2k-3k players that are playing that would mean that a lot people have them or there is a hoard of them someplace controlled by a few players. 

 

My guess is there might be 100-200 out in the market but the other 400 are being hoarded. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Kegan

[Tuanta 484]

We all make mistakes, its what we do. It's how we learn from them and correct those mistakes that define us.

If they were ever considered an exploited bug, the people making them should have been banned (temporary at the very least) and all items removed immediately.

Leaving them in game for so many years was a mistake.

 

Now there is intention to fix that mistake, which is perfectly understandable. The issue is that since they were left in game, they have changed hands and were sold for a considerable amount of money. Removing them now, doesn't punish the people who deserve that punishment.

Also, it was at the very least implied that they were accepted and would stay since they were left in for many years. (I also remember seeing a post with Rolf using the legacy term, but that doesn't matter. Things can change, and should if they have the better interest of the game in mind.)

 

I own 3 fountain saucepans, all of which I purchased.

I use them for convenience by keeping them in a small magic chest in my large cart. I store butchered body parts when hunting so the individual QL is retained. I also keep food in them to feed carnivorous animals on deed.

The hot ore thing sounds good but I never needed them for that as I always just place hot ore on a personal merchant.

 

Anyway, long story short...

Why are we talking about this? In other words, what's the issue here? Are they causing an issue with the database or game in some way?

 

 

If they are causing an issue and need to be removed.

Then I would vote for them to be replaced with a choice of the following:

1. Magic "ever-burning" forge or oven
   
2. Water-skin of endless water
   
3. Collapsible Rowboat
   
4. Leash of many leads (Can lead four animals with it)
   

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

For the record, I own 5 such items and paid 40 euro for 4 and 50euro for 1, I also keep them inside a large magic chest I bought for 50s from a trader.   I paid a total of 360 euro for this.  I paid for convienence.
 
 
For christ sakes just leave them alone.
 
Mamdarkness, I'm you're OP wasn't worded the best and was unsettling..  Mentioned that there are two sides of the arguement, one side that owns them and the other.... the other?  You mean the other that doesn't own them and can't afford the euro to buy them?  I refuse to accept change based on the whining of people that cannot afford a legacy item.   Yes, the item is an anomoly and a bit OP... and it's priced by the community accordingly.
 
Why are we having this discussion at all?

Edited October 26, 2015 by Nomadikhan

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

Have the people against such items given a good reason for why they should be removed?  And, of those how many are owners of said items?

 

I have the feeling it's a jealousy issue more then a game balance issue.  Just sayin'.

 

Stop bothering us with solutions to problems that are brought by people that can't or won't pay euro for convienence.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Nomadikhan

[Noizhead 622]

Make better versions of fountaincontainers and sell them through the shop.  Work up some non-euclidean containers, like small/medium/large bags of holding that are much bigger on the inside than outside, and sell them directly.  Alternate non-burning versions could exist for a higher price.  Leave fountainbags and the like more or less unchanged, but clearly inferior due to the added weight of the fountain inside and the fire susceptibility that some have.

[Gaeron 551]

I like the idea of renaming them as source rifts but will they be functionally identical to the fountains they replace or will there have to be some differences?

 

For example, right now you could pop a fountain out of its container and you now have...... a fountain.

 

What happens if you pop a source rift or will it not be possible. will they be locked in their container?

[Revelation 288]

Even when considering good old wogic, these things are ridiculous.

 

Nobody held a gun to your head and made you pay hilariously inflated prices for an item that is obviously not intended to exist. Saying that now that everyone can use tubs/amphora to dye things and that therefore fountaincontainers should be left alone is clearly trying to shift attention away from the fact that these things provide a ludicrous amount of decay-free storage space in a portable small magic chest.

 

I for one am fed up with people being able to keep ill-gotten gains that were acquired during periods of exploitation ("windows of oppurtunity") before a certain bug was fixed or an exploit was patched (insane body control gains from spiders when using MS weapons, inflated meditation skillgain from switching paths, etc.) One way or another I think these items should disappear! Give owners a choice between reimbursement with a lmc and change the fountaincontainers not handed in through the reimbursement program to an "unstable source rift" that will decay no matter what after a given period of time, say... 6 months?

 

If you absolutely must keep these things in-game, make them craftable. Perhaps a spell that requires a massive amount of favour (linking 3-4 priests) to legitimize its existence.

[geode 292]

 

 There are 600 such containers ingame and the price is steep so it would strike a hard blow on many people who have invested serious money even if it is on an exploit.

 

 

600?

 

Six HUNDRED?????

 

To let that many [Exploited Items] get into the game without a resolution LONG AGO I consider to be .... oh nevermind.

Edited October 26, 2015 by geode

[tgod 456]

Even when considering good old wogic, these things are ridiculous.

 

Nobody held a gun to your head and made you pay hilariously inflated prices for an item that is obviously not intended to exist. Saying that now that everyone can use tubs/amphora to dye things and that therefore fountaincontainers should be left alone is clearly trying to shift attention away from the fact that these things provide a ludicrous amount of decay-free storage space in a portable small magic chest.

 

I for one am fed up with people being able to keep ill-gotten gains that were acquired during periods of exploitation ("windows of oppurtunity") before a certain bug was fixed or an exploit was patched (insane body control gains from spiders when using MS weapons, inflated meditation skillgain from switching paths, etc.) One way or another I think these items should disappear! Give owners a choice between reimbursement with a lmc and change the fountaincontainers not handed in through the reimbursement program to an "unstable source rift" that will decay no matter what after a given period of time, say... 6 months?

 

If you absolutely must keep these things in-game, make them craftable. Perhaps a spell that requires a massive amount of favour (linking 3-4 priests) to legitimize its existence.

There wasnt an * on the auctions either saying they will be removed.  The existence and sale of this item has been allowed without much comment from devs.  After such a length of time to change would be a bad move.  

[Atlas 363]

Root cause issue here is actually on deed decay, focus on solving *that* problem and you will also fix storage merchants and storage alts as a by - product.

How much damn tedious *work* do you want *playing* Wurm to be???

Edited October 26, 2015 by Atlas