FOUNTAIN-PAN REVISION - CLOSES NOV 1st

[MamaDarkness 880]

Hello everyone,

 

It's time we try and sort out this fountain-pan situation in an orderly manner.

 

There are two camps here: People who think fountain in smaller containers are a good thing (usually the owners) and people who strongly dislikes them and want them removed.

 

Removing them would be a good idea because they are the cause of a bug and they go above and beyond some fairly balanced restrictions on containers. Today they can only be acquired by purchasing from other players who abused the bug or have purchased them since.

 

However, that bug occurred several years ago and the items have grown into a feature in many peoples minds and serious money has been exchanged over them.

 

Thus we have a very bad situation with two base cases:

1. Leaving them as they are would be to allow an exploit situation to remain. This is in general upsetting to anyone who do not own them and want a fair game. It's also very ugly with a fountain in a pan.

2. Removing them by simply putting them on ground would remove the situation. There are 600 such containers ingame and the price is steep so it would strike a hard blow on many people who have invested serious money even if it is on an exploit.

 

After talking to different parties and looking for the best solution we need to find a middle way that we can live with and want you to discuss the following suggestions to be implemented.  This is a list of ideas to get you started, nothing is set in stone.

• Renaming those containers (usually fountains) to "Source Rift" or something similar indicating they have created an anomaly. Also changing their actual item template so they are a completely different item.


• Making existing items containing these anomalies permanently immovable.


• Making these anomalies heat a bit slower


• Imposing a minimum but still slower decay rate in those cases where they are in nodecay containers


• Potentially increasing the storage size of magic chests.


• Potentially adjusting the amount they can hold.


• Potentially having them decay like magic chests and not be repairable.


• Making them not fit into chests any longer (existing would likely remain though)


• New anomalies would not be able to be created (legacy item)

 

Other suggestions and feedback on these suggested changes are welcome!

 

We need to work together on this one and we ask you all to consider a compromise. In case we don't change them in any way people will rightfully see them as ongoing exploits and consider quitting. In case we just throw them out of existing containers people will feel cheated on money by us and consider quitting. We think it is better to turn them into legit items with more balanced functionality.

 

Suggestions for this change will close on November 1st with code changes to follow shortly after.

[Redd 4,281]

Why change anything at all? The Dev team stated that they would remain in game.

 

If a change is needed, rename the item with the exact same function ability to "Source Rift" as you suggest and not have them craftable. That is the very least which should be done. They are not game breaking, but a nice quirky item in the game.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Redd

[Druidnature 1,118]

I like the name source rift...

I say, as a owner of a FP, that most of this seems "fair"

However can the "making them immovable" be explained? Like, we won't be able to move them ever again or?

Still I don't see a huge advantage to owning one where it's game breaking and needs changed.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Druidnature

[Kegan 3,926]

I would say make the magic chest hold more and remove the fountain pans and give the owners of the fountain pans a new free chest as a replacement.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Kegan

[Propheteer 7,139]

I guess what Rolf said in the past doesn't matter.

 

 

Source rift, no longer creatable.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Propheteer

[MamaDarkness 880]

they would stay in game, just as a modified item.

[madnezz 555]

I consider gaining skill in windows of opportunity to be cheating and unbalanced but that won't prompt me to quit, ie changing meditation paths over and over to reset your meditation cool-down allowing you to get more skillbearing meditation chances per day and then get rewarded for exposing this to staff after your friends have all profited.  Those who threaten to quit over an item they can obtain if they really want to by using legal means should really question why they play this game.  Not every squeaky wheel needs grease, some just need to be replaced.

 

Leave the fountain containers the way they are and let natural decay and account attrition/deed disbands do their jobs.  High value items that have been in the game for years do more for the economy than they hurt the game.  Fixing something that is not broken is a complete waste of development time.  You could be changing the 0 to a 1 so kingdom chiefs can change their titles, we can see the code now there are no more excuses for ineptitude.

Edited October 26, 2015 by madnezz

[Rolf 3,563]

If someone could find where I stated they would never be changed and quote me it would help everyone I think. I can't recall saying they would never be changed myself :/ The Wiki says "These were left in the game as artifacts but making more is no longer possible" but that information may or may not be based on something I said/wrote.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

If someone could find where I stated they would never be changed and quote me it would help everyone I think. I can't recall saying they would never be changed myself :/ The Wiki says "These were left in the game as artifacts but making more is no longer possible" but that information may or may not be based on something I said/wrote.

[Kegan 3,926]

If someone could find where I stated they would never be changed and quote me it would help everyone I think. I can't recall saying they would never be changed myself :/ The Wiki says "These were left in the game as artifacts but making more is no longer possible" but that information may or may not be based on something I said/wrote.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Kegan

[Mordraug 2,542]

I don't own one but.... 

 

Don't think myself or anyone who does own one can be pointed to a thread (apart from the most recent one) where staff says they'll eventually be removed/nerfed into the ground.  I do remember a thread or three where staff says "we're letting them be".

 

Also, there may be 600 in game but given the price and how often you see one (or painted ships at that), odds are most of those players are inactive as hell anyways.

 

With items to replace their functionality coming in, that part is solved, naturally.  However... let me tell you a story about gamers and "rare" "legacy" items.  You know the most expensive item in Runescape?  The PARTY HAT.  A simple paper crown that has no stats and offers no benefits.  But since the only one's you'll ever have access to were the ones created around 10 years ago, they're worth a bloody fortune.

 

Fountain pans, if they're not blowing up the code, should be left as such even if people will soon be creating "legit" items that'll make them mechanically worthless.  They not only cost SERIOUS MONEY, but also have the "legacy" and "rarity" value along with more than a few that have sentimental value.

 

IF CC is so adamant on getting rid of them altogether (let's face it, adding decay is just that albeit slower), compare the threads where they got auctioned off and get an average silver value for them (1 gold each i think it was?).  Then pick a few "legit" items of equal value, say 5 of them.... (for example) 2 dragon hota statues, OR some moonmetal weapon of choice with bells and whistles, OR supreme sailboat.... then:

 

"If you have one, call a GM and trade it in for your choice of one of the 5 reimbursement goodies".

 

Give them until Dec 31st (not 4 days, some people have real lives you know, means they pay the same as others but burn less server resources and bandwidth, they shouldn't be penalized).

[Mordraug 2,542]

If someone could find where I stated they would never be changed and quote me it would help everyone I think. I can't recall saying they would never be changed myself :/ The Wiki says "These were left in the game as artifacts but making more is no longer possible" but that information may or may not be based on something I said/wrote.

[MamaDarkness 880]

making them immovable would mean:

 

if a magic chest or a container has one in it, you can't move or load that item etc.

cannot put them into a new container, only drop on ground.  Once taken out, won't go back in but we do not expect to force them out with a change.

you would be able to move them, load them etc. if empty.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

In fact you guys can't come and say we change an item which is worth that much. 

 

There are people who would loose a lot of money but well I guess you got that. (for the record ... not me I am in so long I made most of them myself)

 

 

So the best solution is renaming them into the source rifts and don't touch the function or the size/volume of the items. Prevents a huge drama.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Sklo:D

[Propheteer 7,139]

If someone could find where I stated they would never be changed and quote me it would help everyone I think. I can't recall saying they would never be changed myself :/ The Wiki says "These were left in the game as artifacts but making more is no longer possible" but that information may or may not be based on something I said/wrote.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

It was posted many years ago, I can't seem to find it anymore (nor can most people that remember it itseems). Makes me think we either didn't read something right, or it got lost with all the forum changes and archived threads.

[Druidnature 1,118]

What I personally want to see. Please keep in mind I DO own a fountain pan.

A change to the name would be kind of cool, but other then that, I believe they should stay how they are. It's a convenience for putting my meals into, and *slightly* lowering the day to day work that Wurm requires for me to be able and actually play the *game*

With that said, I want to see items come in that duplicate its functions. The storage part can be mostly fixed by buffing magic chest, but we need more room in our forges or new forges to mass smelt and stuff.

The dye which, honesty was probably the least used purpose, is now available so that's good.

Basically, I want to see the hep the fountain pans give - brought to more people. And keep the fountain pans as the artifact that everyone can point back to one day and say "man, this wasn't available back in my day unless you had one of these baby's"

That's my opinion, for what ever it's worth.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Druidnature

[Kegan 3,926]

It was not said they would remain forever if anything it was for now that was said

 

Edit: Anyway.. I don't care if the people get to keep the ones they have i just want a new item that is comparable be made available at the traders so i can buy one when i want it.  (that is not an exploited item from the past)

Edited October 26, 2015 by Kegan

[Ascorbic 265]

What about buying them out from the users.  Giving them a little less than market value in silver then deleting them.  Just a thought.

[Stormblade 617]

 

 

• Potentially increasing the storage size of magic chests.

 

I would rather see this happen personally and then purchase a magic container thru legitimate means than to rely on a bugged item to increase my storage capacity.

 

People that have used these bugged items knew that someday sometime they  would either be fixed or removed, but went ahead and bout it anyways. 

 

To use a known item that was created by a bug is a gamble, one that might have seemed fine in the short run, but in the long run it didn't pay off. By definition a bug in the game is always an item that needs to be 'fixed' by the developers.

 

Also, how many folks said 'they'd quit' with the changes to traders, and how many of those folks just adjusted their play style to get by without that huge payout each month.

 

Added:

 

Also, I don't see anywhere in any post that says bugged items will be immediately fixed, there is not time limit on fixing things.  Perhaps they could have done it sooner but for whatever reason they choose not to.  Now they are fixing it and folks are crying foul.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Stormblade

[Redd 4,281]

It was posted many years ago, I can't seem to find it anymore (nor can most people that remember it itseems). Makes me think we either didn't read something right, or it got lost with all the forum changes and archived threads.

 

This ^ There was a town square thread asking what will happen to the fountain containers and you said that they were fun items and cause no harm so will remain ingame as legacy items. It either went with the 2008 forum change, or was deleted.

[Mordraug 2,542]

I do think folks would have noticed a clear "They'll be removed sometime int he future soon TM", which would have dropped their value to 1/10.

 

"Left as an artifact" came from SOME official statement lacking the aforementioned part.

 

Also... do you REALLY want to antagonize people willing to spend $100ish on a single WO item?

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mordraug

[Aflacduck 2,174]

I'd just remove them and let people cry for a week then sweep it under the rug and move on. You're bending over backwards for people who knowingly used a bugged item and expected it to stay in the game based on a supposed forum post that nobody can seem to find. 

[Druidnature 1,118]

I would rather see this happen personally and then purchase a magic container thru legitimate means than to rely on a bugged item to increase my storage capacity.

People that have used these bugged items knew that someday sometime they would either be fixed or removed, but went ahead and bout it anyways.

To use a known item that was created by a bug is a gamble, one that might have seemed fine in the short run, but in the long run it didn't pay off. By definition a bug in the game is always an item that needs to be 'fixed' by the developers.

Also, how many folks said 'they'd quit' with the changes to traders, and how many of those folks just adjusted their play style to get by without that huge payout each month.

Added:

Also, I don't see anywhere in any post that says bugged items will be immediately fixed, there is not time limit on fixing things. Perhaps they could have done it sooner but for whatever reason they choose not to. Now they are fixing it and folks are crying foul.

Just like to throw out there, look how many said they'd change when premium was to go up...

Look how many actually did.

And until now nobody was really calling this a bugged item (though originally it was) it was turned into a artifact left from a bug that was fixed. That's like announcing to people "this is a rare item" not "this is a bugged item with a cool name, to be removed soon!

That's where this issue is coming from.

[Macadelic 199]

No sense in touching them at all. They have been around this long, why change it now? If they were going to be removed, they should have been the moment that the bug was exposed and the fix was deployed. They are not hurting anything other than the feelings of those who don't own them. If someone wants one, they can probably find one to purchase just like the majority of the current owners have done. A market was created for them because it was said that the existing ones would remain in the game. And they have, for years, until now. If they are tampered with and made less useful, that market will diminish and it will be a 100% money loss on the current owners, not to mention the utter hassle it will create.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Macadelic