Sign in to follow this  
Jadegeier

Request to Devs: no (forced) update for WU

Recommended Posts

I am a long time WO player (although 2 years might not seem THAT long to some people :D) and I am also a long time Minecraft player. And here is what currently makes me scared:

 

Seeing WU going the way Minecraft did, seeing all the WU mod requests popping up every day in the forum section, I fear it will become just like Minecraft. So I thought it is a good idea to request one very important thing to get added by the devs before anything escalates (like it did in Minecraft).

 

I want to be able to refuse/deny any and all future upgrades to WU, Devs totally need to put that option into this game.

 

Currently it is not possible to tell steam to NOT upgrade your WU, that means every time the devs decide to update it with stuff I am forced to do so and play with those updates.

 

As your steam ID is used to login to any of the servers, it seems to be not possible to just copy your folder elsewhere and run your current WU-game from there without ever beeing forced to upgrade it again (like for example KSP does, copying the KSP folder and starting from there with the .exe file makes it possible to run it without ever upgrading it again).

 

But... and here are my reasons... I want to be able to not upgrade WU because:

 

As a long time Minecraft player I have seen tons of mods getting added to the vanilla version by the devs, mods I just never wanted to have but was forced to use them because devs added it to vanilla.... I'm still happily running my old 1.46 version of minecraft only with the mods I want.

 

Why do I fear it will happen to WU too? Well, watch the forums, silly requests all over the place, Warlander just coding in the "don't be able to kill your horse" stuff over night into WO and so on... there you go, my experience from Minecraft is just that: Things WILL GET ADDED if the majority of people request it!

I am in the minority and I want to kill my horse by accident, and I don't want to have fluffy ridable mini-dragons in my version of WU. But seeing the devs just add in something over night like Warlander did with horses in WO, I see this coming to WU too and that scares me.

It did happen in Minecraft and if my logic don't fails me, it will happen in WU too, not today and probably not in the next few weeks but over the years it will happen.

(Don't get me wrong when I'm saying "things are added over night by Warlander", this horse stuff was a request of the community, and exactly THAT is the problem with it, if enough people request fluffy ridable rainbow mini-dragons it will get added some day... and THAT'S the (at least my) problem with it!)

 

 

Another reason are the mods in itself. Let's say you have a FTB (Minecraft/Feed the beast) kind of mod package running, then the new update comes and modders are forced to update their mods too... well, you can be sure that at least 50% will not upgrade their mods over time, because they just lose interest and not develop it any more.

So, with every update you have to install your favorite mods again in that very new version, but if the mod is not longer developed you are stuck and not be able to use your favorite mod then.

So there you have another reason why you would want to NOT upgrade your WU version!

 

There's a ton of other reasons, but those are the most important to me right now. (Well, throw the "I don't like steam at all" opinion in here as well.)

 

Long story short, we need an option to refuse updates on WU if we don't like/want them in our game, on our servers. So please devs, make this possible.

(Or, to be precisely: don't force me to get a pirate bay copy of WU with the steam/update crap hacked out :P )

 

 

 

TL;DR version: Please give us the option to deny any future update on WU and make it run outside of steam (which forces updates currently), because I don't want to have fluffy pink unicorns in my WU one day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In no way attempting to derail your ask, which I also support myself.


 


As a GM there is an option called Feature Management in the creatures sections. Reviewing that option it appears that you can turn off some features. I wonder if this functionality would be a middle ground (assuming it works the way I am guessing it's intended to).


 


~Nappy


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can disable automatic updates on steam. But yes I agree, being able to stay at a certain version choosingly, is better.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I wish Valve would take the initiative to implement this option on their end.  It would be a huge help to all the mod-heavy communities on Steam.


 




You can disable automatic updates on steam. But yes I agree, being able to stay at a certain version choosingly, is better.




 


Not necessarily.  The only options Steam provides is to: (1) always keep a game updated; (2) don't update a game until you launch it, or (3) make it a high priority update.


 


So, you can avoid updates, but only if you never play the game again.


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In no way attempting to derail your ask, which I also support myself.

 

As a GM there is an option called Feature Management in the creatures sections. Reviewing that option it appears that you can turn off some features. I wonder if this functionality would be a middle ground (assuming it works the way I am guessing it's intended to).

 

~Nappy

 

Where can you find this?

What creature sections? D:

Edited by Tyroki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steam only has this for optional betas.


 


Best way would be the unfixfix mod request I have in, and that is to collect anything that Rolf decides to change that you do not like can be modded out in one configurable mod.   They are unlikely to do those toggles themselves because of the shared code with WO, where everyone has to play the same way with the same feature set because it is an MMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will have to check next time I login with a GM char at implementor level 5. With ebony wand active in inventory, right click on the wand and in the menu that appears navigate through the creatures section. In there you will find the option I mentioned.


 


It appears to allow you to turn off features like marble bridges for example. Haven't played with this area so might be wrong.


 


~Nappy


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wand -> creature -> future management. For exmaple Amphora's or new Permission System - you could deaktivate it and return back to old system.


 


OP: thats steam and will never happen


Edited by noermel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love of having no updates or even better: ability to pick diff versions either because problem no 2 (but, because mods take time to update, or yes, no longer updated)but considering it is steam, it is hard to happens.


 


This is one of reasons why minecraft doesn't go steam.


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's really annoying is when the forced updates overwrite my server.jar.  I've written 12 mods so far and every time it gets overwritten I have no way of knowing which classes had changes made.  This would me having to edit the new classes and write my modded source code into them, or find a new way to implement my mod in the updated class, as opposed to being able to just overwrite the classes with my modded versions like I've been doing, because just overwriting them with my old modded classes could cause errors elsewhere in server.jar. 


 


Please please please do not force updates upon us, because it will typically break most existing mods every time you change something, not to mention wiping the host's server jar back to vanilla until he/she finds a way to implement his/her mods once again. 


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how this would even work. Say you don't upgrade but some other server does. And someone who plays both servers wants to keep playing both servers. Do they need to turn off upgrades on the same schedule as you to keep playing your old server? I feel like the Wurm client would need to be able to play as whatever version the server reports in order for this to even be possible.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steam only has this for optional betas.

 

Best way would be the unfixfix mod request I have in, and that is to collect anything that Rolf decides to change that you do not like can be modded out in one configurable mod.   They are unlikely to do those toggles themselves because of the shared code with WO, where everyone has to play the same way with the same feature set because it is an MMO.

 

Its not.

 

There is already the functionality that can do this in steam, its by using (well sort of misusing) the Beta tab. Paradox do this with all their games, they keep all previous versions available via the Beta tab so if you want to play a previous version of the game you just select it there and it will be the version your game stays at and wont upgrade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've changed a bunch of things in server.jar, I not excited about the idea of them getting overwritten. If I could stop automatic I could at least make a copy of old, update and then go through looking for differences between the two.


 


what did I change?



- cultivate grass directly.

- remove the restriction on what type of tile you can build a house on.

- farm crops don't turn to weeds.

- buff farm crop yield by two.

- farm crops drop on ground instead of inventory.

- dirt drops on ground (both shovel and dredge) instead of an inventory.

- reduced the skill requirement for level and flaten of special tiles from 70 to 30.

- level will both level up and level down.

- vastly increase dredge depth.

- increase pack and pave underwater depth since we can surface mine to -24


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 




wand -> creature -> future management. For exmaple Amphora's or new Permission System - you could deaktivate it and return back to old system.


 


OP: thats steam and will never happen




 


So, you say that every single time Rolf (or Devs) put an update in, I would find it in the... creature (why the hell the creature section, a kiln is not a creature for me ^^) section and be able to revert it? I doubt that! 


 


Also, if they do something to the core code it's a pain in the ass to find every single step they changed and might possibly not easily be reverted, because of... well, coding is not easy sometimes and there's a good chance that you break something else that depends on the same code snippet then.



 


 




Its not.


 


There is already the functionality that can do this in steam, its by using (well sort of misusing) the Beta tab. Paradox do this with all their games, they keep all previous versions available via the Beta tab so if you want to play a previous version of the game you just select it there and it will be the version your game stays at and wont upgrade.




 


Never heard of this Beta tab thingy, and I'm pretty sure I never seen it saying "Beta" anywhere on my steam page, but will go look for this. But I think the WU Devs would have to implement this first so it can work with WU. Maybe that's an option then!


Edited by Jadegeier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never heard of this Beta tab thingy, and I'm pretty sure I never seen it saying "Beta" anywhere on my steam page, but will go look for this. But I think the WU Devs would have to implement this first so it can work with WU. Maybe that's an option then!

 

 

Its enabled for all programs, not sure a developer can even turn it off as its often how you test builds with a small number of users (allows you to enter in a code to join the hidden builds).

 

To get to the Beta tab for a game / program in Steam:

Select the program in your Library --> Right Click on the game --> Select Properties --> Select Beta Tab.

 

The top drop down box is the public betas or ones that you have entered the code for in the below box. As said Paradox uses this all the while to allow people to go back to old versions of their games.

Edited by WUPlayer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's really annoying is when the forced updates overwrite my server.jar.  I've written 12 mods so far and every time it gets overwritten I have no way of knowing which classes had changes made.  This would me having to edit the new classes and write my modded source code into them, or find a new way to implement my mod in the updated class, as opposed to being able to just overwrite the classes with my modded versions like I've been doing, because just overwriting them with my old modded classes could cause errors elsewhere in server.jar. 

 

Please please please do not force updates upon us, because it will typically break most existing mods every time you change something, not to mention wiping the host's server jar back to vanilla until he/she finds a way to implement his/her mods once again. 

I have asked about this over and over again...actually started as soon as the announcement was made - the only answers that have been given are,

 

1. Per Rolf - code around us (CC) -Everyone should be playing the same game

2. Workshop Content - Client Devs say yes this is a good idea - But Rolf says no Workshop content yet as they dont have the resources.

 

Im waiting to let them look over the results of the WU release and talk things over to see where they are going to go before going hard core into my modding. Mostly we are testing stuff to see how everything works, but are not going to open up a server till we know for sure whats going to happen here.

 

I was wondering how long it would take before people started figuring out that every time CC pushes an update all your mods could break, and if past is prologue then there will not be any advance warning or documentation when it comes to updates. if you dont mind a full time job then heavy modding is possible, you just have to be on top of things. If you dont want a full time job, dont heavily mod, at least this is the way i am looking at it and I am planning accordingly.

 

Modding jars atm is a really risky thing.

 

 

Just a quick edit for the OP - Disallowing updates from CC is not a good idea. Your going to want those updates. I realize thats how some other games do it....but thats really only a bandaid / stop gap measure for controlled chaos.

Edited by sunsvortex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how CC can find the time to change .jar files to be easier for modders. They need to be spending their development time adding suggestions and fixing bugs.


 


 


Curious, how feasible is it for the community of modders to do a single common modified client and server.jar that would:


1. by default run the standard WU game released by CC.


2. move many of the important hard coded constants into variables that mods can change with reflection techniques.


3. maybe add some small optional methods and they could be enabled with say...isDropOnGround(). If false, things would get put in inventory using the standard WU code.


Is it too optimistic to think folks can agree what this "standard" is? I'm also not sure who could competently manage such a project while not starting to pass judgment over what should or shouldn't be merged into the common. 


 


 


For now I'll make a copy of my modded .jar files. Then when the server or client.jar gets updated I have the copied version to compare. I'll also need to make a little program that compares version of client and server.jar. If they haven't changed launch WurmLauncher.exe. otherwise don't.


Edited by joedobo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see only a "-beta- branch" coming with WU, did check other games with different "beta" stuff in them (like for example "previous version" coming with KSP). So this is something the devs have to implement, but I think it's not what should be done in first place.


 


Have a look at this thread: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/133254-released-zebra-ocelot-mangalarga-marchador/


 


Let's assume there are about 200 people requesting this to be put in vanilla WU, and let's assume Warlander or any other dev just implements this because it was a request by a ton of people (as happened with other things in WO already!)... would you really want this silly blue/pink/striped rainbow zebra stuff in your WU game?


Wouldn't you say no to this and just be able to NEVER EVER UPDATE WU AGAIN just because stuff like this is likely to be added at some point for the vanilla version?


 


Geez... please (prays to Magranon) Devs, give us the goddamn option to disable every future update in every possible way!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually  - ago - is working on a nice setup. A mod launcher designed to launch multiple mods for his priest mod. Now ..and this is only my opinion....but I think a mod launcher is something that CC needs to do as its basic modding infrastructure and it needs to be standardized. Ultimately one could see this being setup much like civ 5 in that you could open a GUI, select the mods you want to run and start.


 


If CC would put something like this in I think the gloom and doom of updates would be greatly minimized.


Edited by sunsvortex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this