[Suggestion] Improvement Window

[Tyroki 6]

We have a crafting window.

It is glorious.

Especially not having to constantly right click and pick a menu.

 

So I wonder, why is this not a thing for improvement?

If you guys make an Improvement Window, you could have it similar to the crafting window.

Add in a repair function, and my gods it will be amazing!

[Acurapassion 54]

Well, just having a toolbet set with the improvement tools/mats actually works fine, if not better.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Acurapassion

[Tyroki 6]

How is putting things in to slots, setting how many actions to go through, then hitting a button worse than what you suggested? D:

[Ricowan 199]

I like this idea!

[Munsta0 27]

+1

[yarnevk 257]

Have you actually investigated toobelt automation?  There is no need to put things into toolbelt slots, nor select tools in your inventory, nor use popup menus.  You can have toolbelts for woodworking and blacksmithing.preloaded with your favorite tools, then throw repair/imp onto your favorite keybind , which has a UI setting no more trying to remember console keybind commands.

 

You never have had to use the popup menus to do repair and improve, so that is not a reason for adding a mod because that automation to resolve that problem already has been long in place in WO.  It is one of the few places of automation they allowed to exist.

 

With the creation window you would actually have to put the tool into the creation window every single time it changes the imping tool.   By the time you fix that by adding hotkey slots that can be preloaded defining which set of tools to use you have essentially recreated the toolbelt automation for no apparent reason.  You can also already sort your inventory based on what imp tool is needed if you prefer to wack the same key before switching tools and just switch items.

 

Even the crafting window leaves you hanging on which tool to use, opening up a help window defining the many possibilities, and then you have to go thru your inventory to find your  tools that you prefer to use, which may vary based on their QL, DMG and skill and what you are trying to achieve with your imping procedure so no automation can decide what tools you want to use.   It is why the toolbelt automation uses preloaded toolbelts.

Edited October 26, 2015 by yarnevk

[Ricowan 199]

That works great once you get a 60+ ql toolbelt.  What about before that?  I like this idea, it isn't any worse than the crafting window, and you don't have to use it if you don't like it.

[yarnevk 257]

Then you toggle your toolbelt to another using hot keys, this automation feature basically made it possible to not really need a high QL toolbelt which used to be the only way to automate more tools.  That is no longer the case with the toolbelt sets automation.

 

save your toolbelt to toolbelt slot 0, save your other toolbelt to toolbelt slot 1.  As a noob you can have two things in each (you have a lot more toolbelts)  now you can use the toggle buttons or the hotkeys to toggle or select by number.  You could have numbers be the slots and shift-numbers be the toolbelts, whatever works for you.

 

the repair process is wack the repair/improve hotkey (I use R and T) repeatedlly until it changes tools, hit the toolbelt hotkey and the slot hotkey to select the next tool.  Repeat until done.  Select the next item on the sorted imp list that uses the tool you have. Painless way to imp for hours.

 

The crafting window does not support swapping from a toolbelt, yet imping is a process intentionally requiring you to swap tools all the time to force you to interact rather than AFK.  The intent is you think that adding imp to the create window means you can just AFK like you can with a stack of bricks but it will not.  Just simply changing 'create' to 'imp' in the crafting window is actually going to make the process worse not better because you cannot setup a swap tool list to work with it, and swapping tools into the crafting window is actually more work than using the tool.  The solution to the swap tool list is obviously the one that is already there, the toolbelt.

 

Learn what is there first before you try to improve a process what already has been very well automated.  It is the rare case where a user mod for WO automation did not cause banning but was so good it was incorporated into the tool and UI/keybind system directly.   The complaint was they hate using the popup menus to imp and repair, which was such a painful process they allowed this change into WO and it is in WU.

 

Simply hold your popup menu over the toolbelt and see all the options.  Open up the keybind menu and look at the crafting menu and the HUD menus.

Edited October 27, 2015 by yarnevk

[DioSan 105]

I did that suggestion to Wurm Online long time ago.

Now with WU i believe we can have hope.

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/110671-improve-window-gui-interface/

[yarnevk 257]

Hot keys will always be much faster to use and automate than a drag and drop UI.  They never would implement a tool stack that does not require user interaction to select which tool - because imping is a visual feedback system there for the sole purpose of user interactivity to defeat macroers.  The intent of your change was to put all the tools into the window and be able to AFK imp, which changes the rules of the game.

 

While macroing is not against the rules for WU the shared UI code with WO means it is still a game design issue.  That visual feedback exists for the same reason that captcha exists, would you rather the game use those instead to prove you are an aware human playing the game?  It is designed to be a mini game of wack the mole, such that the mole wacker cannot be automated.  food and stamina are not barriers to macroing easy to have a barrel of water and food in your inventory and interject eat and drink actions into your macro, but visual feedback systems are an effective AFK barrier.

 

They conceeded it was much too painful to use the popups which is why the keybind/toolbelt automation is so extensive, they allowed it because that did not change the mini game of having to watch the screen.   Since high QL items are so fundamental to the economy that is why this human awareness mini-game is used, you cannot achieve high QL by being AFK,   As long as it is a server only mod so everyone has to play the same game then it is 'fair', but it would be up to the server owner to decide if his economy will have AFK produced high QL items.  You might think it is unfair if you have to leave your client running all day to compete with those who do run imping macros all day.

 

Now if the existing creation window was tied to the toolbelt hotkeys (puts selected tool into the window) and the repair/imp keybinds (hitting the windows action button) then it just has you staring at the window while you imp rather than your workshop while you play that minigame on your keyboard as you can already do now.  The only visual improvement I see with that is you get bigger icons and fonts that are easier to read with the window, the creation wndows help tree s not much value in imping like it is for crafting.

Edited October 27, 2015 by yarnevk

[Ricowan 199]

This is a mod request, not a request for a game change by CC.

[yarnevk 257]

I was referring to DioSan's post which was a WO request to fully automate imping to not require interactivity disguised as a UI upgrade.

 

This mod request of the OP is not removing interactivity from imping, I am just pointing out that unless the toolbelt hotkey automation is added to the create window it will not improve useability but actually make it a worse drag/drop process.  If you was not so obstinate you would see that is what I have been saying all along, that you should actually learn to use the existing keybind/toolbelt system because it already removed the need for popup menus entirely, which is the issue the OP had and was clearly unaware his problem was already solved so no need to propose a new solution.

 

Adding the keybind support to the create window should be an easy mod just make it so that the repair/imp/toolbelt hotkeys are putting/repairing the selected tool in the window and select if you are creating or imping with the bound hotkey so that the mouse does not need to be used at all.  The only reason it was not done was irrational fear of macroing, because imping requires interactivity to do it in the first place so it is an unfounded fear. It could be a client mod because it is not modifying server gameplay at all, and is just putting a UI on top of existing keybind/toolbelt automation.  Is there any value added by having that window once you add the keybind/toolbelt automation to it beyond larger fonts and icons?  For creation there certainly is because of the crafting tree help that is much easier to use than the wiki.

 

DioSans post on the other hand would have to be a server mod, where the admin recognizes that if it is used destroys any possibility of having a social economy because everyone will be able to produce high QL tools while they are at work.  Of course single player mods can do what they want, certainly much easier just to GM in your high QL tools if that is the goal.

Edited October 27, 2015 by yarnevk

[DioSan 105]

Here we are not discussing what is faster, bind will always exist in the game.

It is very important to have visual elements and intuitive interface.

I don't like to play as i'm playing an instrument, i like the visual elements, something that makes the game look and feels like a game and not like a working machine with keys to press

give look at the steam reviews

good or bad, the weakest point of the game is the interface

+1

[OFF TOPIC]

About the WO suggestion

I just gave a idea, the fact of having a mockup does not mean it has to be that way. It was the a way i found to illustrate the idea across the board.

read the topic and you will see that it was an idea for the devs think about the best way to implement it.

The simple fact of being able to bind actions already makes the game 100% automated. All keyboards and mouses nowadays have a native software for macro/loop/sequences with timers and thousands of other things. Microsoft, Logitech, Razer... each has its own software and people don't need to understand anything about code, they just make the sequence they want. It is easier to create macro/bot/automation for what you define as action on each button on keyboard/mouse than for what appears on the screen.

[OFF TOPIC]

[yarnevk 257]

Being able to keybind does not automate it when you are playing wack the mole, which is essentially why they swap items and tools all the time to force you to interact with the game and not be able to macrobot.  You might say then you will just macro all the items and all the tools until something randomly happens, but that is the easiest macro to detect because of the very high fail rate, no human could possibly be that bad.

 

While you think you would prefer a gui than keys to play that game, dragging and dropping is actually just as tedious as popup menus.  It does not seem so with the current creation window because it was designed for using one tool on a stack of items.   If you actually have to use it on multiple tools on multiple items, it becomes a very bad user interface.   

 

The current creation window was intentionally created to not respect the keybinds and toolbelts, which is what makes it a bad UI.   Windows and Apple have both standardized on keyboard shortcuts for windows, because it most certainly is faster way to use a UI.  As long as the system requires interactivity, then you do not have to worry about people using the keys to macro.

Edited October 28, 2015 by yarnevk