"Officially" Supported Tools Requests

[sunsvortex 599]

Since there is no place for this yet and there are very large differences between community mods and Official Tools, might as well start here with the requests.

 

*** There are no expectations of immediate results, we know they will take time, but it should be clear that a good base set of "Officially" supported tools will alleviate a lot of issues.***

 

1. Spell Builder

2. Quest Builder

3. 3d Model / Asset Import Tool

4. Sound / Music Import Tool

 

This I think would be a very good start combined with all the other items that are currently being developed.

 

Again for those that do not understand why the above should be officially supported; it is due to one big reason -UPDATES. If these tools are officially supported the devs can code around them making servers safer from the impending doom any regular or ninja update could potentially bring.

 

MONETIZE the tools. No need to do it for free.

Doesnt matter if the tools are built by CC devs or the community, what matters is that 1. That they are created and most importantly 2. That they are "Officially Supported".

Edited October 11, 2015 by sunsvortex

[Xyp 273]

Don't hold your breath.

[yarnevk 257]

They already do not care about your server safety, you are not getting the MMO security code with WU as that stays with WO only. All part of their grand plan to get people to realize that the official servers (WO) are the safer place to play.

 

What makes you think the devs are officially capable of preventing doom from ninja updates?  Even with a test server it happens all the time in WO.  Bridges enabled fence jumpers resulting in massive public parkour thievery causing a GM nightmare to support.

 

GM's are already in charge of missions (quests) so that takes care of #2.

Edited October 11, 2015 by yarnevk

[sunsvortex 599]

They already do not care about your server safety, you are not getting the MMO security code with WU as that stays with WO only. All part of their grand plan to get people to realize that the official servers (WO) are the safer place to play.

 

What makes you think the devs are officially capable of preventing doom from ninja updates?  Even with a test server it happens all the time in WO.  Bridges enabled fence jumpers resulting in massive public parkour thievery causing a GM nightmare to support.

 

GM's are already in charge of missions (quests) so that takes care of #2.

The reason they are not releasing the anti cheat is for a very red neon sign obvious reason. They dont want people learning how to exploit it.

 

The devs cant prevent doom, but they can mitigate it by proper documentation of changes and by developing / Officially supporting a base set of modding /world building tools.

 

GM's are not on my server, so they wont be in charge of jack. And no it doesnt take care of #2 even if they were, thats not even what I am talking about. A quest builder is just a GUI that simplifies the setup and creation of Quests. You do realize we are in the Wurm Unlimited section and not Wurm Online?

Edited October 11, 2015 by sunsvortex

[yarnevk 257]

You can be your own GM as the server owner if you want to provide quests.  That feature is in WU.

[sunsvortex 599]

Yes I know, I have been informed in great detail how it works. I also know that a Quest Builder would be a very handy addition, as everyone will soon see when they try to make them.

[Arkonick 557]

1 reason WU is going to steam is cause it has it's own Anti cheat built in which WU will use if I recall. A dev if they see this could elaborate a bit on it.

[Warlander 2,730]

1 reason WU is going to steam is cause it has it's own Anti cheat built in which WU will use if I recall. A dev if they see this could elaborate a bit on it.

All WO anti-cheat/macro systems are removed from WU.

[IloveWurm 90]

Why would you monetize? I believe one reason why Minecraft was so successful was the public sharing of modifications. 

[sunsvortex 599]

Why would you monetize? I believe one reason why Minecraft was so successful was the public sharing of modifications. 

Because if someone is going to take the time to make these tools, they should get paid for it. IF CC is going to officially support them, which means they have to continually update and modify the code, it adds to their workload....they need to be paid. Im a firm believer in paying people for the work they do. Moving to a modded version of Wurm is not a small undertaking, that they are actually doing it is rather wildly surprising. I like the idea, I think its a great idea to allow it to be modded and customized to each individual players wants/ desires, but its a lot of work. PAY the people that are going to do the work. They are actual people who like , pay bills, eat food, pay rent, buy gas, drink water from a tap and have to pay the water bill. If they are going to take the time to build and maintain the tools....pay them for it. Wurm is a business afterall.

 

If they came out right now , today, this minute and said ok we have all those (Listed Above in OP) allready, you can download them here for 100.00 US -25.00 each, Id bet any amount of money that store would be near crashing with people grabbing those tools. 100.00 would be cheap for full fledged GUI's officially supported by CC. ID grab them without giving it a second thought.

[WUPlayer 10]

All WO anti-cheat/macro systems are removed from WU.

 

I would guess its probably not going to be that difficult to build a simple mod for a basic WU anti-cheat system though, so if you really want a anti-cheat/anti macro system then either build it yourself or wait till someone inevitably builds one. Tbh the only anti-cheat system that could be useful is a record of all GM actions as most people wont care if you use macros on a public WU server, while if someone gets access to a GM account and starts doing stuff any server owner will want to know.

Edited October 13, 2015 by WUPlayer

[yarnevk 257]

@WUPlayer

 

Sure if you have a decade to replicate the learning curve WO already went thru you could mod it.  That is why they are not releasing it because all that accumulated knowledge of how cheaters cheat is their added value.  

 

@sunsvortex

 

I would not pay for a modding tool because I am not in the biz of making money off of Wurm, nor would anyone pay for them that ever modded an Elder Scrolls Game where Bethesda provided the mod tools to everyone with the game, and their attempt to get Steam to monetize mods was quickly reversed within days after a community uproar.

Edited October 13, 2015 by yarnevk

[akaedis 429]

@WUPlayer

 

Sure if you have a decade to replicate the learning curve WO already went thru you could mod it.  That is why they are not releasing it because all that accumulated knowledge of how cheaters cheat is their added value.  

 

@sunsvortex

 

I would not pay for a modding tool because I am not in the biz of making money off of Wurm, nor would anyone pay for them that ever modded an Elder Scrolls Game where Bethesda provided the mod tools to everyone with the game, and their attempt to get Steam to monetize mods was quickly reversed within days after a community uproar.

 

Turning a Free community into a paid community was a bad move on both parties. However paid mods isn't going away, Its just gonna have to wait for the next game so the community can establish itself on that rather then get changed into that. That and it didn't help the mod developers themselves and there own fanbase from opposing the 1/4 split rather then 1/2 or 3/1 split. 

 

Just so you know, You are wrong in terms of people paying for mods. It happens daily on TF2, People submit there items, If it gathers enough support and a few other things it becomes apart of the game and the creator gets an amount of money from each sale. Im unsure of what the ratio is but paid mods are already here, just there isn't really any games other then tf2 that have it. 

 

Im sure there would be people will to pay for the tool/mod, Not vocal people but people, Just like the people who pay for items for Facebook games. They don't talk but they spend there money as they please. Its a hard market place with those kinds of people but they do exist and theres a ton of them that it kind of makes you sick to your stomach when you see the numbers of sales these people get from those kinds of people. 

[Ayes 3,715]

So many players have complained about the costs of WO being one of the main reasons that they are switching to WU that I pretty much doubt they would be willing to actually pay for any mods for it. I think even those who want to have some sort of payment made to play on their server will find few willing do so.

 

=Ayes=

[sunsvortex 599]

OK, I dont think every one quite understands the issue here. This isnt a debate about paid mods vs unpaid mods. IF you run a mod that isnt fully supported by CC then every time they release an update there is a risk that the mod will break...

 

Now you can say this is true for a lot of modded games, and to an extent it may be, but not like Wurm. Wurm is an MMO that was never designed to be modded. Its not a true standalone game....its still a client server game. Without a base of officially supported modding tools that the devs can code around, woe to us fools that are going to try and do the modding. Itll quickly, depending on the number of mods and the extent of modding done, become a full time job fixing and maintaining mods after updates from CC have been applied. In order to limit this full time job, we need a base set of modding tools that are fully supported by CC.

 

So if CC makes them, they should charge for them, so they can continue to make money from a one time purchase game, and therefore continue to support it. Rolf has allready stated that funds from sales of WU are going to support WO. OK fine, then lets get an income stream from modding tools going so that this money can be spent directly on WU features, not on WO crap. I for one wont much care for money spent on one game keeping a completely different one alive on life support.

Edited October 14, 2015 by sunsvortex

[yarnevk 257]

If WU does well then they can afford to make the client/server be able to support mods.  There is nothing unique about Wurm compared to other games and I would not pay extra for it to have that support added.  Games that support mods include that support with purchase of the game.  Ark Survival Evolved is a similar client/server in the same genre and same price bracket yet they have done just fine figuring out how to officially support mods in a basically transparent manner despite their update schedule that is way more frequent than Wurm.

Edited October 14, 2015 by yarnevk

[sunsvortex 599]

Because ASE is built on a modern game engine where code is very modularized and they probably had modding in mind when developing it. BIG difference. Wurm has no modern game engine and there was never any thought about modding when / as its being developed, till now. Thats comparing apples and horseshoes.

Edited October 14, 2015 by sunsvortex

[joedobo 1,187]

Minecraft has suffered from the problem of maintaining mods. A lot of cool additions have disappeared because the modders often don't want to update something to a new Minecraft version. It's very common for mods to lag a whole version behind MC. Many mods are now work with MC 1.7.10. MC's next big thing right around the corner is 1.9.0 the "Combat Update".

 

Most players won't pay for mods. Check out the author of "Not Enough Items". It is a hugely popular mod and only has a handful of donations. Look at Buildcraft, it's another very popular mod. It has even less supporters.

 

NEI ... http://chickenbones.net/Pages/links.html

Buildcraft ... http://www.mod-buildcraft.com/pages/hall-of-fame.html

 

I belive CC has trouble coding around its own code. If they were to toss in some "officially supported" mods that they have to take into consideration when making updates it wouldn't go well.

 

The best solution is what Minecraft does. Simply let players choose what version of WU they want to use and block auto-updating.

[Ricowan 199]

None of that is necessary.  WU will not have the problems that Minecraft has, from a modding perspective.

 

Minecraft is obfuscated before it is compiled.  This means that class and variable names are renamed to sequential letters ("a.java", etc.).  Each time Mojang makes changes to the code and re-obfuscates, the new names almost always change.  So in version 1.1, a class name would be "af.java" but in 1.2 that exact class would be named "ba.java" instead.

 

CodeClub devs have stated numerous times that Wurm Unlimited code will not be obfuscated.  This means that class "TerrainData.java" (totally made up name) will *always* be "TerrainData.java" from version to version, unless the devs have to change a class name due to code restructuring (almost never necessary).  Variable names will be the same from version to version, etc.

 

WU mods will only need to change when the specific functionality that mod modifies has changed, and the change will be relatively easy to do.  The vast majority of the time, simple mods will continue working from one version of WU to the next, and more complex mods will only need some simple tweaks.

[joedobo 1,187]

Minecraft is obfuscated before it is compiled. 

Thanks for explaining why MC has such a problem with mods. It really makes me wonder why MC even bothers to do this as mods have significantly contributed to its success. imo, MC would be nothing without them.

 

anyway...

I still think;

1. CC doesn't have the extra coding dev time for adding additional considerations for "officially supported" mods.

2. The vast majority of players won't pay for mods.