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akaedis

WU: Clay - Completed

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may i ask a small offtopic question here? some ppl mention here that the mods are serversided. due to the fact that i never saw a game having stuff only on serverside: does it mean if i mod a server (like adding new items or recipes), everyone who joins got them without downloading extra stuff?.


Edited by Simju

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Clients need the object meshes and texture packs for new items.  New recipes do not need any of that so they are server side.  There is no modding API for handling client/server mod updates - that is something that needs to be solved.


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Simple fact clay is a resource, WO tried to make things pseudo realistic. Dirt + water = mud not clay.

 

 

^indeed you are not making the game better by replacing clay as a resource, because with this mod any clay tile is now a waste of space that was better off being watered dirt.  You also have a buggier map because watered dirt tends to grow grass and trees in water (tile height checks are done at the NW corner).  So I tried very hard to replace watered shore dirt with clay on my maps to avoid that bug and be more noob friendly, but now you do not like my map because the other maps with watered dirt is easier to make clay.   

 

 

now a more realistic mod that allows one to make things out of dried mud - such as bowls, bricks, pavers, and wallls would be more interesting, and deepen and widen gameplay.  They would have a disadvantage compared to clay and rock in that they crumble more easily - repair cost more QL and it decays faster.  Combined with clay and thatch you can create more durable adobe which leads to an entire new tile set for buildings that would be the best building in the desert (if regional weather existed.)

 

Mind not bringing realism chat into a game where we can't even jump or where we have DRAGONS and two headed guys with maces for hands that can bash you enough to turn you into mush. k thx. Quit derailing this thread please. I just requested a mod to create clay without a clay tile, Not whats more practical for using water and dirt not some pottery suggestion, Go make your own thread if you want a practical use for water and dirt.

 

Yes, Water and dirt doesn't make clay, Its part of the process yes but it doesn't make it, theres more to it but thankfully wurm isn't a realism game. Its a fantasy sandbox rpgmmo, Some things don't need to make sense, kinda like priests or meditation or how SOTG is somehow balanced, Or even the fact that if you jump off a mountain and land in a cave you'l live no matter what.

 

Regarding the comment about cheating and clay being everywhere on the map, that i wouldn't say that is cheating, its already there. Or even if the clay was spawned near the start deeds, thats fine. But you know if i wandered off north then east then north again and found a cool looking area that i want to build a village at but it has no clay whatsoever, i want to be able to create clay from recipe or digging near water there. Not creating clay tiles with GM powers. i wouldn't mind buying an item that creates clay but that would limit who would get this clay and kinda be a little counter productive to add since the intention behind the post was to create a way to get clay with just things you'd find around the world at any given time. Similar to cooking food.

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Fantasy also has the notion that you can create golems out of nothing.  So in the name of fantasy realism I guess you also want to be able to mix peat and moss into the shape of a dragon which you could fly so that you can claim you are not cheating by using the GM fly dragon command?  Don't you think a mod called Taming Your Dragons would be more popular even if it makes the process difficult simply because there is little market for a mod that you can do just as easily as GM?


 


Game design is about creating a world that has consistent rules.  If dirt/water exists then it is breaks immersion for clay to exist especially when someone makes the effort to make sure dirt shores are replaced with clay shores.  That is why I propose that you give clay a reason to exist by making mud and not clay.   Modders get more support when they make more immersive mods that deepen and widen gameplay, especially in games where if you just want to cheat you can more easily use GM mode than download a mod.


 


The reality is you do not need to deed on clay even with the scarcity of it in WO, the occasional trip with a wagon or boat lasts you a very long while, it was so easy that anyone deeding clay was derided as not contributing to public serve with an public clay pit. It is not like mining where it takes forever to load a wagon and is consumed very quickly in the furnace by everything you want to make, so you do want to deed an iron mine, but you do not need your own clay pit (maker) but if you really think you do that is what GM commands are for.  


 


Already the mapmakers are realizing they will need to walk the shores with their magic wand to make sure the map is friendly because RNG does not factor noobs into its equation.  Once that is done it is done and you can get all the clay you need with easy travel.

Edited by yarnevk

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So if I make a waterlogged map that has lots of clay by definition that is cheating?   If I use map rules to flag spawn locations that are near clay and iron that is cheating?  When Rolf distributed marble so everyone could have it on their deed, that was cheating?  If I make a map without slopes that drain stamina and lots of canals and boats so you can easily trade, is that cheating?  Or is it just good map design that accounts for the needs of gameplay?   When the GM hardens a freedom highway so it cannot be greifed, is that cheating?  When the CA logins her priest alts at spawn to handout conversions is that cheating?

 

That is why the GM's have the wands because they realize the map generators do not always make a playable map.   It is no more cheating than making a noob village at spawn with mines already dugout to iron nodes, and a bartender to keep you fed, or a tutorial village to teach you the game mechanics.   All of that is the GMs and CAs accomodating the needs of players to make it more noob friendly.  So instead you want to add new mechanics to the game to pretend you are not cheating ignoring the fact that the game already has GM features to accomodate the needs of players without needing new game mechanics.

 

You can put clay inland when you make a map. This ain't WO. And to get right down to it, clay isn't always by water. Only in WO.

 

Also Yarnevk, why are you so concerned about what someone else does on THEIR server? Sheesh. You do what you want on yours, he does what he wants on his. Seems like you're arguing just to argue.

Edited by Clatius
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Of course one can cheat all they want in their creative mode server, that is why GM mode is so easily available.


 


But when someone asks someone else to spend time and effort making a mod that is mechanically the same as GM mode?  Literally there is no gameplay difference between magically dropping water and dirt to get clay vs. the GM wand waved over dirt to make clay. They both use the 'action on item' mechanic to get the exact same result of making clay available whenever and wherever you want.  


 


So the only reason for that mod to exist is someone trying to fool themselves into thinking they are not cheating themselves, and my response to that is get over yourself since that is the intent of creative mode is you can cheat your gameplay all you want.  Nobody is going to put effort into a mod that makes no mechanical changes to how the game can be played solely so you can pretend you are not cheating because you modded rather than used your available GM powers.    The request is like asking for a wand to be put into the game that spawns a dragon, when that wand already exists.


 


If you do not want to outright cheat  whenever you want you can solve the problem of initially bad maps without easy clay by fly around GM map editing at server startup or using a biome map editor and making sure to set your PC spawn point as close or as far away as you want to increased clay spawns.  Nobody needs to suffer from Rolfs bad map making skills that have driven 95% of noobs away from the game.


 


If you actually want deeper wider more immersive game play then realize water+dirt=mud and realize the many realistic uses for mud that could be put into the game and put your effort into balancing mud vs. clay, people will support mods that enhance gameplay more than what you can do as a GM or mapmaker.


Edited by yarnevk

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You can put clay inland when you make a map. This ain't WO. And to get right down to it, clay isn't always by water. Only in WO.

 

Also Yarnevk, why are you so concerned about what someone else does on THEIR server? Sheesh. You do what you want on yours, he does what he wants on his. Seems like you're arguing just to argue.

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If you actually want this still, replacing your server.jar with this one adds a recipe to create clay from dirt+water, uses Pottery skill.

It will break any other mods you have though. The only file changed is com/wurmonline/server/items/CreationEntryCreator.class, so if no other mods have modified this, you can extract it from the .jar and put it in your server.jar

It will most likely still be overwritten whenever WU updates though!

Edited by Rotab

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If you actually want this still, replacing your server.jar with this one adds a recipe to create clay from dirt+water, uses Pottery skill.

It will break any other mods you have though. The only file changed is com/wurmonline/server/items/CreationEntryCreator.class, so if no other mods have modified this, you can extract it from the .jar and put it in your server.jar

It will most likely still be overwritten whenever WU updates though!

 

Thank you Rotab. I personally haven't downloaded it yet(Still downloading WU, Curse you canadian internet >.>) but i probably will. Tyvm Rotab

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Just give your toon GM rights for a few minutes and convert the tiles you need to clay. Much easier to do ig than in map creation out of game.


 


Clay consists of mineral particles (extremly tiny sand more or less)  while mud and dirt consists of lots of plantfibres (and some minerals).


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Cecci 


 


OP reports those who give negative feedback on the mod idea as trolling the thread.  Of course the mods do not respond because don't post a mod thread if you do not want constructive criticism or negative feedback.  Nobody has attacked the poster personally as he tries to claim.


 


I already suggested someone could expand gameplay with a mud mod that preserves the existence of clay in the game so they both have pros/cons.  Lots of things you can make with mud beyond simple mud pies.


 


This clay is watered dirt mod is not actually needed because the GMs that designed the maps already made sure they waved their magic wand at spawn since the entire point of WU is that it is easier than WO.   I trust the OP will not use those maps because he considers that cheating and will make a map without clay so that he can use watered dirt instead.


Edited by yarnevk

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