How should/would deeds function?

[neofit 78]

I will probably play a bit alone to test this setting and that, but ultimately I will be looking to join a server and help with its upkeep. One thing I haven't read in any post advertising a future server, nor any other post, is how deeds will function. On a private server that is, in SP you'll do what you want of course.

I've read the FAQ:

"Right now all players are premium automatically on the servers. The economy works as usual and you have the possibility to pump the economy with silvers by using the server GUI. That money can then be retrieved the usual ways by selling to traders or foraging etc. And yes you can set a player to have powers to create money as well. "

How did I play in WO? Well, I went to a deed cost calculator on the wiki and started entering figures for deed size, number of guards, etc, until I got something nice that I deemed not too expensive. Then, since I considered making items then carrying them to the market as unpaid work outside of my actual work, I was buying silvers for upkeep from CC AB. I cannot imagine buying silvers from a private server operator in the same fashion, I'd rather contribute to the upkeep.

Now if on a WU private server deeds are free, I imagine the first three people will deed the whole island. So they have to cost something to the player.

Maybe, engine permitting, a server admin can setup a limit of like 200 or 1000 or whatever deeded tiles per character? Adjustable per player?

Maybe, after tweaking NPC vendor prices, we can have a whole economy going on where people work a bit, not too much, to produce stuff to sell to said vendors and pay in-game for their deeds? I have no experience with vendors in WO, the ones I saw never had any money or were walled, getting one for myself was too much of an investment when a ragequit is always a few clicks away.

So how do you guys think deeds should and will function in WU on a server?
 

[fatboy 448]

doubtful you can do that, deeds can be setup as free or pay style, i got a  few friends who is gonna sell silver on there servers to help with server costs and obviously those deeds got upkeep :-P its up to the server host ,  should be plenty of choices out there, obviously servers where ya pay for deeds will have some form of a econ, while the free deeds  might or might not. thats the great part of WU, play how you want.

[akaedis 429]

iv been thinking about this a lot aswell, But i haven't came to an answer im happy with, But this is what outcomes i could see happening:

 

-Pay to play comes in, So 10s would be 5$ USD. While this is a little counter productive method since its WU. There may be other services involved here such as "3$ for 1k bricks 50ql" spawned by GM etc.

 

-Custom recipes come into play, Making players create the cash. So like 20kg of gold lump could be transformed over a tedious process into 1s

 

-Deeds are given by GM's, Must have GM come put a token down for you(With sizes preset). GM will hand out cash to mayors every 3 months to pay for there deed. If they expand it/change it they risk it disbanding before the next batch of coin coming in. If no players are there to put money into the token every 3 months, The deed disbands.

 

-Deed remains the same. Monsters depending on difficulty would drop coin when butchered/or even just when killed. So a troll would reward you with 10c to 20c per kill, A chicken on the other hand, 5i. This would encourage people to actually hunt these monsters that really aren't worth killing. Also makes it more player friendly to newbs since there won't be an over saturated amount of trolls in an area at any given time. (This is my most favorite option tbh, needs to be in actual WO, Maybe toned down a bit)

 

-Deeds remain the same but traders appear more on the map or even other deeds and have cash so players don't need to fight over them. Walling them off could result in trader relocation. 

 

-Rare treasure chests are enabled with a 5s coin put inside them. This would make lockpicking a valuable skill to train.

 

-Uniques drop a sizeable amount of coin on death. 

 

PvP:

-Hota has supply depots that are within relative distance to one another, similar to challenge round 1 where 5 depots were just outside sight distance of one another. These supply depots would drop silver or a bunch of copper coins. 

 

I highly doubt any server will maintain "any size free deed" setting, Mainly because trolls and people leaving. Someone might make a whitelist with this setting but not much more. 

Edited October 10, 2015 by akaedis

[neofit 78]

iv been thinking about this a lot aswell, But i haven't came to an answer im happy with, But this is what outcomes i could see happening:

 

There may be other services involved here such as "3$ for 1k bricks 50ql" spawned by GM etc.

 

This is a very good idea. I can see myself paying for tedium-reducing services way more than paying a deed tax.

[Ricowan 199]

I think it comes down to the server owner being responsible for setting the rules and enforcing them.  Something along the lines of "No more than 5 deeds per person (not character)." and removing deeds/banning players that break the rules.  This allows you to keep deeds free to buy with no upkeep and avoids the hoarder mentality.

 

This will probably be difficult to do on a completely open server, but it's not impossible and it may even be easy.  We haven't seen everything that a GM can actually do in WU yet.  Server logs could have all the info needed, etc.

[neofit 78]

I think it comes down to the server owner being responsible for setting the rules and enforcing them.  Something along the lines of "No more than 5 deeds per person (not character)." and removing deeds/banning players that break the rules.  This allows you to keep deeds free to buy with no upkeep and avoids the hoarder mentality.

 

This will probably be difficult to do on a completely open server, but it's not impossible and it may even be easy.  We haven't seen everything that a GM can actually do in WU yet.  Server logs could have all the info needed, etc.

I have played for quite some time on private servers running one mod or another of the Arma2 DayZ mod. These mods only cater to the tardy ganker demographic, so when admins are trying to enforce PvE rules with no support whatsoever from the codebase, administering a server becomes a job. To be clear, I am not comparing trying to run a PvE DayZ server to running a private PvE WU server, apples and orange. I am saying that administering the server without support from the code will be tedious.

 

So in this thread I am trying to start something, to have people discuss various ways to manage deeds in WU. The goals and security concerns of the private server operators will be different from those of CC AB, so if for instance there is a consensus that limiting the number and/or size of deeds per character is the way to go, then this will become a suggestion for CC AB to add some code for that feature. Or another one entirely.

[Outlaw 697]

I feel like stocking traders in certain locations with infinite silver to buy items you create or gather would be the best way to work it.

People on the server who spend time earning silver in-game can then afford the bigger deeds etc.

(Can even sell silver to people at the same time, in order to pay for the server costs)

 

You would need to work out a formula for item prices based on difficulty/rarity and I think it would be pretty fun.

[JackBinimbul 33]

I, for one, will be looking for a way to simply turn off decay.  Then deeds will be obsolete for my needs.

[ownerpure5 322]

I think there should be an option to auto tax the citizens. i will raise an army of newbs to do the labors.

[wipeout 1,355]

see here is what i would do if i was to make a public WU server

1. buy silver from a web based store(along other things) at the rate of 10s for 5 usd

2. raise the rate at which mobs drop money to be able to go hunting for 4-5 hours and make about 10s and also make spawning regional again(like it was on jkh and wild years ago with trolls and goblins)
3. set up several traders on places guarded by unique's that respawn at the trader after its been killed(going up in strength if i can make it that way) 5 days after its been killed(wont stop random spawning around the place) and traders will have 50s on them(next to the unique dropping 40s)

4. have the ability to buy traders from a web based store for 30 usd

5. all traders will be given 50s once a month

6. selling to token will last longer and give more value

7. id look into offering more missions but then along the lines of "get 20k bricks to this and that npc and get 20s" with random npcs spawning in remote places and first person to get to them and give the correct amount gains that silver

doing those things means that people have a wide range of getting silver to pay for upkeep and for deeds and for trading with others


anyways to me deeds would function the same as i actually quite like the way deeds are setup

also all of those things above would be turned on or off depending on how much money flows around like if i notice that there is to much money going around things like 2 would be dropped down or 5 would be halved

granted people want to have gold and loads of it especially on private servers but to me im going to try and aim for having 80s being the average(a few rich long term players with 20-30s on the newer guys) atleast its what id hope to be able to see happen but only time will tell on that part

[Mordraug 2,542]

Caaan we tweak perimeter down to 1 tile? (I know 0 tiles may do bad things to the database on shared borders)

[neofit 78]

see here is what i would do if i was to make a public WU server

1. buy silver from a web based store(along other things) at the rate of 10s for 5 usd

[...]

7. id look into offering more missions but then along the lines of "get 20k bricks to this and that npc and get 20s" with random npcs spawning in remote places and first person to get to them and give the correct amount gains that silver

That's some nice ideas there. But if you start selling goods and services, you open a whole can of worms.

 

I doubt that CC AB will give away the software they are using to process online payments outside of the game, and then tie them to items or services inside the game on the proper toon. All this will have to be done by hand in WU. Say Paypal or whatever informed you that account "aaa@bbb.com" has paid $30 for a priest. You'll have to drop everything, fire up the admin client and create the item for said toon.

 

Sure, a private WU server can function the same way as WO: we pay for deeds in silvers, then purchase said silvers from the server operator. But you can rest assured that if I paid someone $30 for a priest, I will want it delivered within the next minutes, if not at once. Not when he operator has a bit of free time after long week-end at a buddy's marriage, not when he is back from some business trip nor, god forbid, the hospital.

 

I don't know if large private commercial servers will be a big thing in WU. But I think that smaller ones, where a couple dozen friends, metaguild or clan buddies will congregate, will be common enough to warrant  a discussion on some specific rules.

 

I've already played other games on such servers. Few players, contributing to the upkeep, no financial pressure on the operators. But even though we are all guildmates, some rules have to be laid out so people don't step on each other toes, don't deed a whole peninsula or the entirety of the one and only steppe-ish flat-ish hunting ground on the island. Wagging the finger after the fact is nice, but a set of rules implemented in the code is better: no more than n deeds per account, no more than x tiles per deed, no less than y tiles between two deed markers on the same account, etc.

[wipeout 1,355]

have a look at buycraft a web shop for minecraft servers

 

on there it checks to see if a purchase is done if so it sends through a command to the server where buycraft is installed on and it spawns that item for that player

right now silver is added in a similar manner on WO so who is to say it would be hard to set it up for WU

as for them giving away the software there is no need for it at all there are hundreds if not thousands of payment systems out there that cater towards web stores or gaming communities from fully automated to semi automated

as for being given whole accounts i personally wouldnt ever go that far even on my mc servers it was to gain quality of life commands example being /back to go back to the place where you typed /sethome which could be done once every hour and worked cross dimension(and later on cross server) which was 5 bucks or an /lock command that froze an 50x50 radius so that nothing could be done within it but could only be done around your sethome commands coordinates

so ya in the end i wont go full blown being p2w sense of an item store that gives you a gazillion things but like "oh you wanna buy silver well there you go you can" or "you want silver but dont wanna pay for it well do these things" like i myself would never setup things like 30 dollars for a full blown priest account like just take the time to make one :3

[enoofu 206]

Just turn them into dungeons and have only hostile mobs spawn in the deeds, would help in designing servers with low animal counts

[yarnevk 257]

Keep in mind that tolerance for cash shops exists in f2p games, but in b2p games people will think you are double dipping and not use it.  You could argue all you want that the game purchase did not go to your server, people are stupid and behave accordingly with belief that server operators are subsidized by Rolf to get more WU games sold - especially if you twitch or tube they will think you are being paid by the man to promote the game.

 

Much better if you need donations to keep the server running, do it on your website and keep real world money out of the game.  Disconnect the game economy from the real world is possible to do because the GM just needs to seed silvers into the existing silver distribution mechanics of the game tweaking them so they are a better payout.   Because it cost time to earn silver (maybe even more so than WO when you cannot buy silver), the limited amount of silver in the economy means any jerk that deeds the entire island with his alt army at least had to work for it. If donations are low the GM can starve the game economy to guilt people into donating, bit of a evil overload move but this is a middle ages simulator after all...pledge drives works for PBS and NPR so make it a challenge goal to refill the kings coffers.

Edited October 11, 2015 by yarnevk

[neofit 78]

on there it checks to see if a purchase is done if so it sends through a command to the server where buycraft is installed on and it spawns that item for that player

right now silver is added in a similar manner on WO so who is to say it would be hard to set it up for WU

And buycraft will be able to interface seamlessly with WU and create stuff there with admin powers without any support from WU at all? Why would Rolf write extra code to enable a connection or plugin to securely manage such a service from the outside, and thus help other people earn money from WU? He wrote that it will be "tolerated", never said he'll help with that.

 

And more importantly, why is it that Rolf hasn't himself set up a no-grind server?

[enoofu 206]

Isn't Epic a non Grind server

[Ricowan 199]

BuyCraft is a MOD, written by players not by Mojang.  The same kind of MOD could be created by WU players, with absolutely no input from Code Club at all.  That's what MODs are for, after all.

[Druidnature 1,118]

If someone really wants to make it interesting they could make it so you'd have to do some like, quest (sort of like the ones we do for gods ATM) but a bit different, like collect X amount of wood, or stone, or kill mobs. What ever, and when it's complete you get silver towards upkeep.

Could drop from mobs, could always use traders, could program it so each skill has a decent sell value once you get higher QL items.

Really, it's infinite how you "could" do it. Just going to depend on what the server owner wants.

[neofit 78]

BuyCraft is a MOD, written by players not by Mojang.  The same kind of MOD could be created by WU players, with absolutely no input from Code Club at all.  That's what MODs are for, after all.

Isn't the game still supposed to have a modicum of support at least for modding, at best for the wanted functions? Or are people going to reverse-engineer the game code then make some hacks on top of it that use account and financial information? Why even ask CC AB about modding support if everything is possible without?

[Ricowan 199]

Code Club has already stated that they don't have time to support mods in any way. It's all up to us. Including a framework for easy addon development. If WU gets something similar to Forge for Minecraft, it will be entirely player written and supported.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Ricowan

[Mordraug 2,542]

More specifically it's the exact opposite....

 

Mods are likely to help enrich WO's features, for those who missed the Rolf's comment.

[Druidnature 1,118]

More specifically it's the exact opposite....

Mods are likely to help enrich WO's features, for those who missed the Rolf's comment.

Can I have a link please? Haven't seen that myself yet.

[Ricowan 199]

Rolf did say that if a mod makes sense to include in WO, and if both parties agree AND Code Club has the time, it could be made part of the base code. Once it's in WO it will make it back to WU. That's not the same as actively supporting mods though.

[Nappy 1,369]

Isn't Epic a non Grind server

 

Come to Epic and grind Metalurgy for awhile. Report back.