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yarnevk

Hot/Cold mod wanted

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Not writing it because decompiling java and reading uncommented code is not my idea of fun.


 


But I enjoyed Skyrims survival mods as well as the latest biome update to Ark Survival Evolved.


 


The idea is add a D&D style Body constitution (maybe call it survival?) characteristic that helps you weather scorching and freezing weather that varies with season as well as biome.   The idea is to choose to invest in your CON stat and/or burden yourself with clothing and foods that help you survive.  Without either you will die in minutes - even if you are prepared some mob might cause damage which makes you worse off.   In between scorching and freezing you have hot and cold which will not kill you but it requires more food and drains your other body stats making it harder to keep going as your body burns energy trying to survive, but you benefit by skilling your CON stat the longer you survive.


 


Heat sources campfire, torches, and forges warm you up. Water drinking and swimming keeps you cool.  Requires new clothings that trade off keeping you hot vs. cool vs. armored.


 


The trick in making these mods is not to burden the player with simulation based details - keep it simple.  This was already proven in Skyrim where the simplest survival mod is the one that survived the mod market popularity contest, the simulation based mods did not survive.   Wurm already has the weather and the biomes in place, and I always though it silly they had no impact on gameplay, but I fully am aware it is because all those AFK alts would revolt if they started dying.


Edited by yarnevk
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This should be able to be included as A bar just like hunger and thirst and probably influenced by both of those as well as other factors such as clothing, objects in the environment, and of course the season.


 


The next part of this would be the affects of body temp. Like hunger and thirst I think it should wear on your stamina just for consistency sake. Making it affect other things could lead to a even larger learning curve just for survival which is not ideal as making the bottom line basic element of the game harder would be another push away for new players.


 


And finally, adjustments to the starting load out to help support this. Of course you don't want players loading into the game in the middle of winter and being SOL but at the same time you don't want them invulnerable to the elements. Possibly provide them with a winter coat to equip in the cold.


 


I think this could be a great idea if executed properly, like most things.


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Yeah  that was a problem with Skyrim mod Frost Fall combined with Random Start, spend all the time making your character take one step into the spawn blizzard and you die even if you killed a wolf you could not wear its coat as that was done at crafting benches.  Avoid the unsolvable catch22 for sure. That is fixable by not having spawn in an extreme biome and providing the food and shelter things there you need to brave the elements , easily handled by how nice or cruel your GM is since others may want the hardcore naked spawn (in Wurm I would drop my noob toolbox and force myself to forage for crude tools). Once you are on your own in your own village if you want to go out into a blizzard in the tundra, respawning naked is worse fate than dying.


 


 Doing it like existing Wurm where thirst drains stam and hunger drains quicker than nutrition is the way to go, the basic idea is food and water does not help you as much so I think it can be done as a penalty to their normal buff - that mechanic already exists by simply lowering food/water QL that is your inventory.  Makes sense that frozen berries or spoiled meat is not as good as what is in your pantry at home.  You would only take body damage in the most extreme exposure that damage indicator is already on there but can have fun with the messages like 'frost bit toes'  If shaders are improved the temp could even be a subtle red/blue filter and not an on screen thermometer - unless you craft one (like compass). 


 


The idea is giving multiple ways to overcome the challenge and use as much as the existing indications so the GUI does not change much.  I just do not see existing body  characteristics cover being able to build your char for it it thus I suggest adding CON.  Idea is like Skyrim Nords got a perk to survive the cold so that they can run around naked but some want to be Redguards that can survive the desert naked - by making the only way to skill that is by enduring the weather and risking dying.   It adds some RP element by enabling different character types.  Others may not want to risk skilling CON and just make sure they are prepared for the worst.


Edited by yarnevk

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Once i've written an API, you don't have to sorry about decompilation etc, so you should be able to do this yourself.

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Cold: increases stamina drain


Hot: increases thirst drain


 


Defining hot/cold zones as you do kingdoms or domains, I would think would be the most straightforward approach. Certain clothing items negate/reduce said effect (could add fur clothing to increase protection against cold too).


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Screw mods... I want this in vanilla Wurm! :P


 


There will be QQ... when is there not? Such would be a significant change to gameplay after all; however, I strongly feel it would be a positive impact overall.


 


Granted the implementation and impact could range from draconian to minor. Personally the current maps could be the mild temperate zones with newer maps ranging from polar cold to deep desert hot n' dry. Kind of like Eve Online's security ratings for NPC protection against PVP on each of their solar systems/servers.


 


There's the really safe systems and then there's the systems were you can barely get out of the warp gate before someone webs ya. Someone is getting pod'ed mwahahah!


Edited by Karrde

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Screw mods... I want this in vanilla Wurm! :P

 

There will be QQ... when is there not? Such would be a significant change to gameplay after all; however, I strongly feel it would be a positive impact overall.

 

You underestimate the power of the alt QQ that has Rolfs ear....if you want WO changes I think you are going to have to look to WU.  Too many of us have given up trying to get WO changed - it will take commercial WU servers doing better than WO before you see any drastic changes.

 

Cold: increases stamina drain

Hot: increases thirst drain

 

Defining hot/cold zones as you do kingdoms or domains, I would think would be the most straightforward approach. Certain clothing items negate/reduce said effect (could add fur clothing to increase protection against cold too).

 

I think could read weather state combined with time of day and season to make a reasonable temp,  If the entire map sees the same weather, then the biome tiles can bias the temp -  a cloudy rainy day is very different temp between tundra and desert.  I know you can figure out biome tile you are on since speed is determined based on tile.  You would want to area average the neighboring tiles so that roads do not keep you safe from neighboring biome tiles, as well as do a time based exponential average so that you do not change body temp right away.  If you pave your area then you essentially create a mini-biome - parking lots do get much hotter in summer so better add some grass and trees.

Edited by yarnevk

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I'd also suggest a difference for being inside of a closed off building, and outside in the open, roof or no roof, windows that open/close as an action used on them instead of just opening when walking by. Having heat sources heat a building interior if the right conditions are met and overheat it if they're not.


 


- Edit: You'd also want a longterm heat source for winter season. Maybe a very slow burning fireplace or firepit, different types of buildings produce different levels of warmth, etc.


Edited by Blacklotus

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You underestimate the power of the alt QQ that has Rolfs ear....if you want WO changes I think you are going to have to look to WU.  Too many of us have given up trying to get WO changed.

 

 

I think could read weather state combined with time of day and season to make a reasonable temp then bias it depending on which biome tiles you are in, that would avoid having to create a new zone map.

You'd be surprised, I've been accused of the "alt QQ into Rolfs ear" myself off and on.

EDIT: Not sure why offhand... in all these years I've maybe emailed him three or four times, usually questions regarding observed game behavior, and my sleep schedule differs wildly from his, so rarely see on IRC.

Now, don't tell anyone this... :ph34r:

 

Totally Hush-Hush

There's Bluetooth speakers covertly installed into the headboard of Rolf's bed. There's even text-to-speech software running off select, password-protected IRC chat channels.

 

For some reason Microsoft Zira has shown markedly better results than Microsoft David. Testing for Cortana has not been conducted yet; however, it is scheduled.

 

Update: Attempts to create a Swedish version, either male or female, have resulted in systems spontaneously bursting into flames.

 

This web-page will now self-destruct in five seconds.

Edited by Karrde

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I'd also suggest a difference for being inside of a closed off building, and outside in the open, roof or no roof, windows that open/close as an action used on them instead of just opening when walking by. Having heat sources heat a building interior if the right conditions are met and overheat it if they're not.

 

- Edit: You'd also want a longterm heat source for winter season. Maybe a very slow burning fireplace or firepit, different types of buildings produce different levels of warmth, etc.

 

Ark Survival Evolved has all that good idea to rip them off since they have sold millions!

 

Also we already have pelts so crafting fur clothes is an obvious thing needed, give them a use beyond rubbing wood.

Edited by yarnevk

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I think could read weather state combined with time of day and season to make a reasonable temp,  If the entire map sees the same weather, then the biome tiles can bias the temp -  a cloudy rainy day is very different temp between tundra and desert.  I know you can figure out biome tile you are on since speed is determined based on tile.  You would want to area average the neighboring tiles so that roads do not keep you safe from neighboring biome tiles, as well as do a time based exponential average so that you do not change body temp right away.  If you pave your area then you essentially create a mini-biome - parking lots do get much hotter in summer so better add some grass and trees.

 

Well, depends how you want to go about it. Rather than by biome, I'd want it by altitude (for high-peak areas) and map latitude (northern areas see a lower temperature, southern a higher). If we divide a map into climate zones, we could have certain fauna and flora spawning (including terrain biomes) within those parameters. So sand deserts and palm trees in the south, tundra and bears in the north, etc. If there's a global temperature, modified by season, these zones would simply modify it further by domain.

Lots of fun to be had either way. Is there a current mechanic to modify to determine if a player is indoors? I suppose there's a check for bed placement that might work.

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biomes are correlated with rain and temp  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biome#/media/File:PrecipitationTempBiomes.jpg.   Just make a simplified version of that using Wurm biomes.  Temperate grass land is steppe - does not rain a lot and temps are freezing in winter and comfortable in summer.  So you know the biome you are in because of textures, you know the season, you know the time, and you know the weather. and you know your elevation so that is enough info to each bias the temp.   Actually I think weather might just be random client effects - and not a server effect?  Guess the code will reveal that, would be good if each client determined the weather effect based on season and biome.


 


A tiny isle is of course not enough to simulate world biomes with actual weather patterns with actual poles and tropics, so I presume Rolf just plots them around the map as he sees fit.  If you want cold north, just put tundra there, likewise warm south put desert there.  Also biomes are player terraformed, someone can change the desert to grassland and eventually forests will expand with or without player help - so you would not want a static additional map overlay for biomes.  Release has woods, desert, steppe, tundra surrounding a lake, it makes no sense but that is wogic - so at least make the temp change along with that map.   By area averaging nearby textures a strip of sand on the beach is going to be only a little hotter than the water and forest nearby - but the middle of the sandy desert it is very hot.


 


has to be already an inside check because particle shaders for the seasons (leaves, firefly) only work outside.


Edited by yarnevk

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There is already a temperature value for everywhere in the land that varies depending on season, time of day (I think), and location at least - so the building blocks should already be in place for this type of mod.


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really?  what in the world is it used for?  Not farming crops grow fine in winter.


Edited by yarnevk

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May not be used for anything really.

Someone doing the dogwork for a possible future update... Old planned feature that wasn't finished... complex codebases can have all kinds of nifty stuff buried away that's essentially "inactive" or commented out.

EDIT: I believe it was KOTOR I or II where fans found entire levels mostly finished, and yet never made accessible in normal gameplay. Apparently the development deadlines and budget didn't allow for the work to be finished.

Edited by Karrde

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It's used to determine when to change rain graphics into snow at least, not sure on other functions.


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Items have a temperature value as well, but I have never seen it used for anything and it is not something we (the gm team) have ever messed with.


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Does this thread have to close now?  I guess see others on steam mod forum.


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There is already a temperature value for everywhere in the land that varies depending on season, time of day (I think), and location at least - so the building blocks should already be in place for this type of mod.

It's used to determine when to change rain graphics into snow at least, not sure on other functions.

 

Sweet!

 

Items have a temperature value as well, but I have never seen it used for anything and it is not something we (the gm team) have ever messed with.

 

Would this be the value used in smelting? Is that something testable?

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i had some tar in my inventory i tried messing with, it got warm etc as the temperature went up so it looks like you could use that value for things and it works for making things hot.  It is not something we ever use related to moderation though so you will have to experiment with it when you get your copy of WU.


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i had some tar in my inventory i tried messing with, it got warm etc as the temperature went up so it looks like you could use that value for things and it works for making things hot.  It is not something we ever use related to moderation though so you will have to experiment with it when you get your copy of WU.

Did it take dmg as the temperature went up?

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I could see this being really interesting, I really enjoyed Frostfall for Skyrim.


 


I had a few ideas to add to this myself:


Appropriate clothing for the season would be absolutely needed, seeing players run around in scale/drake 24/7 during summer would be extremely draining on water/food in the summer season, instead wearing a lighter armour more appropriate to the season would have positive effects (although wearing those dragon armours for a short time would have no effect cause you would want to wear it for hunting/pvp/etc).


Tents such as the ones in Frostfall only last 1 season and you would have to make another for the next season. Having a single item to last you a life time for this sort of thing would be sorta dumb(or instead of making a new one, maintenance would be needed to keep it top shape or else cold will take its effect on the player) 


 


As a result of tent maintenance or having to create new tents, seasons would be longer and there would be an easier to tell how many amount of days till the next season. 


 


Something like this would be really hard to get right but add a more hardcore effect to wurm and make seasons actually serve a purpose.


I know I'll definitely be modding something like this in. 


Edited by WesncIsMe

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Temperature on items is for when they go into forges etc, heating up items for smithing etc - all items can heat up.


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Temperature on items is for when they go into forges etc, heating up items for smithing etc - all items can heat up.

Aye which kind of made me wonder at what point messing with that variable might cause the item to take dmg.

In regular gameplay, heating up certain item types, especially wood, will destroy them. Granted depending on how the code is written, merely changing the item's temperature variable in this manner may not cause dmg to the item.

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Haha I can see it now, running around with a pocket full of hot whetstones in the winter.


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