New Permissions (Part 10) - Ownership papers - Future

[Tich 1,389]

This is the tenth (and last) in the series and is to do with the future, mainly Ownership papers (and keys)

 

This has been posted early as we are planning on releasing the permissions system next week baring any real bugs we find.

 

Keys will be staying for now, as this will not be in the initial release, but will be worked on soon, its going to be complicated so may well take some time.

 

 

Aim

 

The aim of ownership papers is so we can get rid of keys and writs.

 

How Ownership papers will work

 

You will be able to r-click on a Building / Item (including vehicles) and Animals and get an ownership paper.

 

This will say something like...

 

Ownership Papers ref: 'id'

 

I hereby declare that player named 'yyy' is the current owner of 'xxx'.

 

These papers can be traded to another player to transfer the ownership of said 'item'

 

The King

 

 

 

Needs more lawyer text but i hope you get the idea

 

If keys are still about, then it will also list the keys that exist for the item

 

Notes

• The id above will have to be unique, so you can see/find the item you are about to buy.
  

• The item will have ['id'] appended to its name, whilst the papers are in existence.
  

• The Ownership papers will have to be able to be put on merchants.
  

• They will not be mailable.
  

• The 'item' should not be usable (e.g. ridable, leadable etc) whilst the papers exist.
  

• The 'item' needs to have permissions available, e.g. for a vehicle needs to be locked, and for an animal needs to be branded.
  

• Existing permissions will be removed when a transfer is done. (maybe even when you generate the papers)
  

• If its an animal, then it will auto unbrand on ownership change.
  

• Papers will not be able to transfer over servers (they will vanish)
  

• Papers will have a limited lifespan if not on a merchant
  

• Papers do not stop enemies from killing/taking the items.
  

• The Papers will include extra information depending on the item, e.g.
  
  • Animals may well have the traits specified.
    
  • Lockable items may well say if there are any keys in existence (although hope to get rid of keys in the end).
    
  
  

 

Other Future Work.

• Somehow make rooms rent-able.
  

 

Tich

 

Please do comment.

 

[Archaed 2,280]

So as I see it this system will allow merchants to sell ownership to any item covered in the previously listed permissions? (e.g. animals, lockable items, vehicles)

Will holding the ownership paper automatically move ownership? or would it have to be activated or used in some other fashion?

[Ascorbic 265]

I feel in order to make rooms rent-able, you are going to have to allow for the planning of rooms in a building.  Like, right clicking the ground and selecting plan room.  (must start with a tile with a door and must be enclosed by walls.)

 

Will papers work for crates or bulk storage bins?

Edited September 24, 2015 by Ascorbic

[Jberg 3,070]

Will they drop on death? Or on PvP death? (it's differed for the starter tools, they don't drop on PvE death, but do on PvP ones)

[Lolabelle 597]

my question too is when you cross a server do they vanish forever??  and if the papers have limited lifespan what does that mean for the item they were managing??

[Kegan 3,926]

it is going to take getting use to but it all sounds good

[Karthannar 130]

Looks good. It'll be nice to have the papers on a merchant to have a self-service shipyard. Among other things.

[Ayes 3,715]

Although not specifically stated, I am guessing that the purpose of these Ownership Papers is only for the transfer of these items? If not then we will have 100's Ownership Papers that need to be stored in our Inventory somewhere.

 

If I am right then these Ownership Papers are only created by the owner of the item when they want to transfer or sell it to someone else? Then after the transfer has been made they will vanish?

 

If this is all correct then yes, it seems a good system to be used to transfer and sell items, especially on Merchants to enable easy unattended sales that would otherwise not be possible in that way.

 

=Ayes=

[Sila 339]

well last part could be merchants menage over borders!!!!

 

 

realy sad that you not touch that needed change.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Well, it all looks good on paper ...

 

AAAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAH HAH HAH haha... guys?

 

Now on a serious *note* HEH HEH HEH (ok I'm done)

 

Will all this goodness also be on WU?

[rsdworker 2]

i liked it its looks good idea but i prefer keys for rentable rooms/house with ownership paper so the expiry would be rent goes in arrears then ownership just vanishes and reverts back to owner who owns the building eg Mayor of city

 

also able set paper not be transferable to other persons

also able to set mail the ownership papers to person that is tranfering or renting etc - once its mailed to person then person gets a paper that confirming the transfer is done

[Saddist 82]

How does that remove writs?

I actually like writs and would like them to remain as they are.

[Laiwyn 188]

Will there be a way to "unlink" keys that exist for the item using the ownership page? If this is possible, then the key that is no longer associated with any locked item can be set to decay (regardless of where it's stored) and be removed from the world naturally over time.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Laiwyn

[Valo 20]

"The aim of ownership papers is so we can get rid of keys and writs." Wait so will we have to have a paper for every animal, building, chest, bsb, etc. on deed? Are we talking like 500 papers in our inventory? If there available to be stored on a merchant, how many can be stored on a merchant? Is everyone going to have to have 1/2 dozen merchants to be able to store the amount of papers to prevent them from being destroyed?

 

Please clarify.......otherwise I have no desire to have 100,200,300+ papers in my inventory.

 

Thank you

[Kegan 3,926]

How will this work on things we bought that did not have ownership before like a rare sm carts for example? How will we take ownership of that? 

[Feonix 44]

How does this work for deed transfer since there is a writ for the deed? And also when you trade someone the settlement writ you also have to trade them the writs to all the buildings. So would we then have to generate these papers for every single item on deed?

[LorraineJ 1,099]

"The 'item' should not be usable (e.g. ridable, leadable etc) whilst the papers exist."

 

Even if you have the paper?

 

 

For some reason this is all confusing me. Is it only for stuff you want to sell right away? If so, how does that get rid of writs? Do you need to take a paper on every one of your horses in your herd?

[spellcast 983]

These papers are for items you want to sell immediately, or place on a merchant to sell.

 

The reason for it to be unusable while the paper exists is to prevent bait and switch tactics. (EG i sell you a boat I am commanding, and then sail it away from you)

 

There would not be ownership papers for the deed as the settlement form is remaining i believe, but yes, you would have to create them for each building on a deed if you wanted to transfer them, which would basically create a temporary stack of writs to use in the trade window.

[Karrde 342]

Hrm cant say I'm enthused about getting rid of keys. Now getting rid of writs is fine from the sound of the new ownership papers.

Speaking of the papers, think this might be a means of making more use of papyrus and perhaps even some kind of scribe skill?

Completely understand wanting to get rid of a glut of lost keys and locks all over the place.

On a really paranoid note, I really hope lock picking is going to stay in. Offhand I'm sure its going to... buuut then the paranoia starts whispering.

[spellcast 983]

heh  lockpicking will remain, no plans to remove it.

[Vanyel 34]

So, to clarify and make sure I (and others) understand this..

 

Case 1 - Deeds

 

I start a deed, and get the current Settlement Deed - no change there.
Each building I create will have it's own entry under a new 'Manage' menu that I will access via my body (like how we edit our profile etc). INSTEAD of the writs we have currently.

This 'Manage' menu will allow me to set permissions such as who can help me build it, who can access the building once finished, who can/can't enter a particular room etc

 

If a citizen builds a house on my deed, he no longer gets a writ, but his house is added to his 'Manage' menu, and ALSO to my 'Manage' menu (as the I'm the Mayor, and all new buildings have the 'settlement may manage' tag set)

If/when I wish to sell my deed, I simply 'create ownership paper' from said management list, and trade the Settlement deed and all ownership papers to the new owner.

Creating ownership papers will remove all extra permissions (individual player's, Allies etc NOT covered by settlement Role permissions).

 

New owner uses the ownership papers to have them added to his/her 'Manage' menu

 

Done.

 

Case 2 - Horses

 

I breed horses to sell. (no change)

I brand each and every horse to have it added the 'Manage' menu (See Case 1). This allows me to set permissions such as who can ride/lead/otherwise use each horse.

 

Each horse I choose to sell, I 'create ownership papers' for that horse. Then I can trade it (via face-to-face trading), or place it on a merchant to sell.

Creating ownership papers will remove any permissions I may have set, and marks the horse as unusable. 

 

New owner buys an ownership paper (or accepts face-to-face trade) and uses the paper to have that horse added to his/her own 'Manage' menu.

 

Done.

 

 

Case 3 - Ships/Carts

I build ships/carts for sale

low quality locks are added to each ship/cart automatically when built to add them to my 'Manage' menu. I can freely upgrade the lock to a higher quality if I choose.

 

from the 'Manage' menu, I can set individual permissions on each ship/cart to set who can control, access inventory etc 

 

To sell them, I 'create ownership papers' and trade/place on merchant. Creating papers removes all permissions currently set, and marks item as unusable.

 

New owner buys the ownership paper, uses it, and the ship/cart is added to his/her 'Manage' menu.

 

Done.

 

Note: Carts includes small carts, large carts and wagons

 

I trust I have that all correct, from what I've read here and Tich's other new permission threads. Please let me know if I have missed/misunderstood anything.

[Noizhead 622]

I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask this.

 

Aim

 

The aim of ownership papers is so we can get rid of keys and writs.

 

All keys, even for small and large padlocks?  If so, will legacy padlock+key combinations still exist and function as before?

 

My concern is losing the ability to put an iron key into an altar so you can always queue up a sacrifice before dropping in favor.  If all old keys vanish or can freely be sacrificed, will some means be added to queue up a sacrifice with an empty altar?