Sign in to follow this  
Cyiko

Slings

Recommended Posts

Mostly due to the lack of ranged weapons beyond bow, slightly bigger bow and even bigger bow, I was thinking that perhaps slings should be added to the game.

 

While around the middle ages, slings fell out of use for military uses, they were still used for hunting and shepards tended to use them. However they were still quite heavily used within the iberian peninsula 

 

 

 

 

 

They should have a bit of a bonus against metal armor because as an example, an arrow couldn't really pierce through plate armor but getting smacked with blunt force tended to hurt the occupant, hence why forms of warhammers tend to be used against plate armor.

 

 

 

 

 

I would suggest 2 types of slings and they would be separated from bows by a quick use but shorter range and not as much damage, perhaps an automatic use system where you would keep slinging as long as you had ammo

 

 

 

 

 

The sling which was mostly used for short ranged combat. A range of 10 tiles and no further (Other types of slings could be used for much longer ranges)

 

 

etruscan-sling-1.jpg

 

 

 the staff sling which was a sling actually used in the medieval era of Europe and were even used well into the ages of gunpowder where they would be used to lob grenades. Maybe a range of 15+ tiles

 

 

slstaffend.jpg

 

 

Liber3.jpg

 

 

STAFF SLING IN ACTION. A modern made one that of course uses the same method of use and design as a medieval staff sling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tusiNAY7Utc

 

 

Ammo simply made from stone shards chiseled into small round stones would work, or molding clay into the bullet shape then firing them to make ceramic bullets

 

 

 

 

but the much superior ammunition would have to come from making lead bullets, with lead of course!

 

 

Pl.012.00,306.jpg?itok=YoUY851o

 

 

I would not want to be hit by any of these. To give you an idea of how powerful these lead bullets were, the romans actually had a pair of tongs designed to pick these things out of bodies. That's how powerful they were, they could embed themselves into flesh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Video information about slings

 

 

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=covH4voKukw

 

 

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU87f5o8vMg

 

 

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXiUDJRgiUc

 

Edited by Cyiko
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most people would be surprised at the distance you can get a on nicely shaped rock or molded bullet. The ranges for slings were similar to or beyond bow range for a long time until bow technology finally surpassed what could be done on a sling during the middle ages.


I have a couple slings and a bag of golf balls in my trunk, people are always amazed at how far they can be thrown.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most people would be surprised at the distance you can get a on nicely shaped rock or molded bullet. The ranges for slings were similar to or beyond bow range for a long time until bow technology finally surpassed what could be done on a sling during the middle ages.

I have a couple slings and a bag of golf balls in my trunk, people are always amazed at how far they can be thrown.

Of course! But unfortunately things have to be balanced for a game... So it's sort of logical to make slings the rapid yet weak cheap weapons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 from me (even if I am convinced that is actually a tennis ball.)


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 from me (even if I am convinced that is actually a tennis ball.)

It is a tennis ball! Mybad!

Edited by Cyiko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1

I admire the simplicity and effectiveness of the sling, coupled with the availability and versitility of its ammunition.

The late Roman writer Vegetius, in his work De Re Militari ("Concerning Military Matters"), wrote:

"Recruits are to be taught the art of throwing stones both with the hand and sling. The inhabitants of the Balearic Islands are said to have been the inventors of slings, and to have managed them with surprising dexterity, owing to the manner of bringing up their children. The children were not allowed to have their food by their mothers till they had first struck it with their sling. Soldiers, notwithstanding their defensive armour, are often more annoyed by the round stones from the sling than by all the arrows of the enemy. Stones kill without mangling the body, and the contusion is mortal without loss of blood. It is universally known the ancients employed slingers in all their engagements. There is the greater reason for instructing all troops, without exception, in this exercise, as the sling cannot be reckoned any encumbrance, and often is of the greatest service, especially when they are obliged to engage in stony places, to defend a mountain or an eminence, or to repulse an enemy at the attack of a castle or city."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Especially for when we fight giants.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's good against plate armor +1. But if it's watered down with no new functionality might as well stick with bows.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well theres always hunting stuff you might not be able to kill melee without damaging a bit beforehand.

Also ammo should be relatively easier to get and/or craft compared to arrows. Unless one wants to get into shiny metal balls; though, comparatively speaking, stones work just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"An arrow couldn't really pierce plate well"


 


Traditional medieval longbows pulled upwards of 180 pounds there were some of lower weights aswell. ( Yes you did have to train your whole life to draw a bow of this weight though )


A 60 pound bow puts a nice hole into plate but doesn't pierce it. Think what a 100 or a 150 pound bow would do let alone full 180 pound draw.


Even if there was chain / leather behind the plate it would easily go through.


Edited by Yesirn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"An arrow couldn't really pierce plate well"

 

Traditional medieval longbows pulled upwards of 180 pounds there were some of lower weights aswell. ( Yes you did have to train your whole life to draw a bow of this weight though )

A 60 pound bow puts a nice hole into plate but doesn't pierce it. Think what a 100 or a 150 pound bow would do let alone full 180 pound draw.

Even if there was chain / leather behind the plate it would easily go through.

Aye I believe England for a period had a requirement where every village had to have an archery range for mandatory practice. Being able to field a massive number of long bowmen in battles really helped.

Also the arrowhead type helps. Heck if you were found with arrowheads for hunting deer, it was bad news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye I believe England for a period had a requirement where every village had to have an archery range for mandatory practice. Being able to field a massive number of long bowmen in battles really helped.

Also the arrowhead type helps. Heck if you were found with arrowheads for hunting deer, it was bad news.

I havent heard of that requirement before but the arrowhead type does help, Bodkin points were nice back then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for slings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for slings . Made from leather too. And bolas too as it was sugested before too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"An arrow couldn't really pierce plate well"

 

Traditional medieval longbows pulled upwards of 180 pounds there were some of lower weights aswell. ( Yes you did have to train your whole life to draw a bow of this weight though )

A 60 pound bow puts a nice hole into plate but doesn't pierce it. Think what a 100 or a 150 pound bow would do let alone full 180 pound draw.

Even if there was chain / leather behind the plate it would easily go through.

Find one historical account of a longbow shot THRU a breastplate. I will save you some time, and tell you there are none. 

 

Even decent quality plate made you pretty much arrow proof except for the inherent weak areas like visors and joints. Even at something like Agincourt where thousands of archers shot 10s of thousands of arrows. The french were only really worried about visor penetrations. 

 

Castilian raids on southern English shores talk about how they felt well protected from English archers BECAUSE they had quality armor.

 

I love longbows and have a traditional D cross section English-style bow for flight shooting. She draws about 130 pounds or so, and it doesn't take a lifetime of training to get into the heavy draw weights. 

 

I hate to derail the topic, but it just tweaks me wrong when people talk like arrows 'easily' penetrating plate. WHEN no historic accounts talk about penetrating anything but gaps or visor slits. IF plate was easily penetrated by arrows no one would have paid the huge cost to make it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-1 slings were the worst. Best only for killing/startling wolves and fighting near nekkid spear chuckers.

As for archery by comparison it has always been streets better for piercing chain, leather and cloth armours typical of the type used by common men at arms, peasants and hedge knights but any man who could afford good milanese plate was reasonably safe from arrows bar his visor, forearms and lower legs where the plate was thinner and at points where plate sections articulated and only had protection vis the quilted cloth padding underneath.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't dish a sling, and ignore it at your own peril. The blunt force trauma is extreme even to armored foes, and mass volleys still serve to slow down even armored and shielded formations. The usage in ancient armies is well documented and extensive.

 

I havent heard of that requirement before but the arrowhead type does help, Bodkin points were nice back then.

I believe it was started due to the prohibitively long time required to train on a "medieval" longbow. The usual muscle memory practice and developing the body to handle a draw strength that even some modern bows do not possess. Understand it eventually gave rise to the yeoman social class and thus stories of Robin Hood; though, finding such a historical figure (assuming such a person actually existed) can be an interesting journey.

The History Channel had a special when Russell Crowe's Robin Hood came out that I enjoyed.

http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/robin-hood

EDIT: The link is a short synopsis. The full video is better.

Edited by Klaa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blunt force trauma is some serious stuff! Can give more weapons that deal internal wounds as well as bruises


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Find one historical account of a longbow shot THRU a breastplate. I will save you some time, and tell you there are none.

Even decent quality plate made you pretty much arrow proof except for the inherent weak areas like visors and joints. Even at something like Agincourt where thousands of archers shot 10s of thousands of arrows. The french were only really worried about visor penetrations.

Castilian raids on southern English shores talk about how they felt well protected from English archers BECAUSE they had quality armor.

I love longbows and have a traditional D cross section English-style bow for flight shooting. She draws about 130 pounds or so, and it doesn't take a lifetime of training to get into the heavy draw weights.

I hate to derail the topic, but it just tweaks me wrong when people talk like arrows 'easily' penetrating plate. WHEN no historic accounts talk about penetrating anything but gaps or visor slits. IF plate was easily penetrated by arrows no one would have paid the huge cost to make it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In wurm one must also consider TYPE of damage.  A piercing wound is harder to fix than a blunt one (no farmer's salve) so slings as a PvP tool would not be likely to take off.  However as a PvE alternative to bows it might do very well, especially if the ammo were easy to craft/imp.


 


+1 for alternatives


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were arrows made with really narrow tips that were almost needle like that were said to have the ability to punch through plate armor with reletive ease. Problem was they did little damage after piercing because of how much the armor slowed then down

Historical source for this claim please.

 

Visor and joint piercings are all noted in historical accounts. Most rigorous medieval scholars agree that penetrating even decent plate was nearly impossible for bows and most crossbows except at the gaps in armor or visor slits. The main reason is the glancing of the arrow off the plate. Tanks during WWII used the same idea as medieval plate. You do not need to absorb the shell, glancing it away works just as well and takes much less armor thickness.

 

Now it was historically noted that archers could just massacre the horses out from under cavalry. This is what most historical sources note make longbowman scary. They can negate much of the effectiveness of cavalry and force you to fight the English how they liked fighting, on foot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding to the call for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sling_(weapon)!

 

"A classic sling is braided from non-elastic material. The traditional materials are flax, hemp or wool"

 

Wemp.  Check.

Wool.  Check.

 

"The simplest projectile was a stone, preferably well-rounded"

"Projectiles could also be purpose-made from clay; this allowed a very high consistency of size and shape to aid range and accuracy"

"The best ammunition was cast from lead."

 

Stone.  Check.

Clay.  Check.

Lead.  Check.

 

The expanded use for clay is interesting, but making wool and lead relevant is terrific.

 

The sling is supposed to have a long maximum range (400m), longer than a longbow even, but one may wonder about accuracy at that distance (then again, the same with the longbow).  I wouldn't propose a 100 tile range in Wurm, but perhaps 45 tiles, between longbow and catapult?

 

Given the wikipedia description, I'm imagining a weapon that weighs .2, of hemp (which takes less decay damage) or wool (which is easier to improve).  About a meter long when laid out straight.

 

The shot could be made from:

 

stone: easiest to improve, but no advantages

clay: increased accuracy

lead: increased accuracy and energy retention

 

Shot weights around .3, inflicting blunt damage on impact.

 

Less clear is the skills involved.  Ropemaking, cloth tailoring, stone cutting, and pottery?  Or weaponsmithing all around?  Leaving it in the crafting skills could allow a range of non-weaponmakers to empower themselves, as in your local tailor can suddenly hunt for his own supper. :) The weapon itself presumably a new skill: Slings.

 

The wiki doesn't say, but I've always understood the sling to be less accurate than a bow, at least at range, so the bow would probably still dominate outside close range, until one gets beyond longbow range where only slings could reach.  On the other hand, bowyery and fletching are good only for making bows and arrows, whereas the skills to make a sling and sling-stones or shot are widely used.  Slings could become the common ranged weapon of the masses, while bows are reserved for professional use.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another weapon option, more use for cloth, leather, stone and lead.

 

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another possible addition for this could be crossbows and by extension, stonebows. Stonebows were basically just a crossbow with a cup to put a stone/sling bullet in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this