Population Graphs - Updated 30/08/2015

[topkos 495]

My ingame names are in my profile. Topkos is a pve player created long time ago in the mrh server. been playing in jkh with other char names that have been deleted or sold long time ago too.. Next time point names. I speak from my point of view backed by facts. The development favored a small minority while the rest, the 80 % remain silent. Everytime i have the opportunity to rub it on the face of the pvpers I use it. And in no way I'm apologyzing for it. Last time your friends trying to bridge the gap visited my neighborhood in kinoss bay made all of my friends move to Xanadu. No they couldnt make this stubborn old guy do the same. Thats how bored this people with 95 fs are....harassing families in the pve servers...please

[demondan 1,865]

My ingame names are in my profile. Topkos is a pve player created long time ago in the mrh server. been playing in jkh with other char names that have been deleted or sold long time ago too.. Next time point names. I speak from my point of view backed by facts. The development favored a small minority while the rest, the 80 % remain silent. Everytime i have the opportunity to rub it on the face of the pvpers I use it. And in no way I'm apologyzing for it. Last time your friends trying to bridge the gap visited my neighborhood in kinoss bay made all of my friends move to Xanadu. No they couldnt make this stubborn old guy do the same. Thats how bored this people with 95 fs are....harassing families in the pve servers...please

 

 

you should point names too. then back it up with evidence, then compare it to how many pvpers are there, then you can stop blaming everyone who isnt like you. 

[geode 292]

Thank you Bdew for posting this year's numbers. Much appreciated.

[Pandalet 1,848]

The population density numbers are particularly interesting - despite the numbers playing on it, Xanadu is still the freedom server with the lowest population per area.  For new players looking for the server with plenty of easy space to settle in, Xanadu (and Indy, to a lesser degree) is your best bet.  On the other hand, if you'd like somewhere with lots of people, and a more settled feel, Deli or Release are for you.

 

Of course these numbers are a rough measurement, since they don't take alts into account, just raw totals.  But it's still an interesting confirmation of what folks tend to say when new players ask which server to settle on.

[topkos 495]

you should point names too. then back it up with evidence, then compare it to how many pvpers are there, then you can stop blaming everyone who isnt like you. 

[Tazinsky 93]

The arguing over silly things like pve v pvp, what you got to remember is we all have differnt tastes, and we all take something we enjoy out of wurm that's why we play, personally i hate pvp in any game, i prefer pve, why? i'm a carebear apperntly, and the whole thrill of someone pvping me and saying lulnoob like has happened in other games just sends my blood pressure through the roof, i know right why so serious? , well i am, so i prefer pve,  of course not taking anything away from those who prefer pvp i say fair play and have fun, whatever you enjoy right?.

[syncaidius 159]

I think Rolf and his team missed an awesome opportunity to Promote Wurm with bridges. Some of the pics that have been shown off in the weekly news are amazing.

 

They could still do it of course, but IMO "Wurm Online, now with bridges that were added 4 months ago" doesn't have the same appeal to new players as it would advertising it about a week after release + bugfixes. And emailing past/existing players about new features clearly isn't bringing enough of them back to maintain or increase the player count for long.

 

Many times over the past few years I've wondered if it would be better for Rolf to halt development of Wurm and use the money to start work on a Wurm 2 built in the Unity engine. At least that way they can use all of the same models, textures and sounds, while also being able to keep the cross-platformness.

 

That's just my opinion though. Rolf (hopefully) knows what's best for his game, and can probably see that Wurm is slowly losing players, considering it peaked at ~6500 premium players 2 years ago.

Edited September 13, 2015 by syncaidius

[Warlander 2,730]

The population density numbers are particularly interesting - despite the numbers playing on it, Xanadu is still the freedom server with the lowest population per area.  For new players looking for the server with plenty of easy space to settle in, Xanadu (and Indy, to a lesser degree) is your best bet.  On the other hand, if you'd like somewhere with lots of people, and a more settled feel, Deli or Release are for you.

 

Of course these numbers are a rough measurement, since they don't take alts into account, just raw totals.  But it's still an interesting confirmation of what folks tend to say when new players ask which server to settle on.

Keep in mind that Xanadu have a lot of land which is very hard to terraform - I know some people who like to terraform very hard terrain, but most of players prefer semi-flat areas.

[Embolism 103]

Not sure why some people are trying to turn  this post into another PvP v PvE thread but thank for the info Bdew.

 

p.s. On a side note, there's a huge number of accounts that play on Freedom AND Chaos or play on Freedom/Chaos AND Epic servers,

Edited September 14, 2015 by Embolism

[Theshrike 48]

I think Rolf and his team missed an awesome opportunity to Promote Wurm with bridges. Some of the pics that have been shown off in the weekly news are amazing.

 

They could still do it of course, but IMO "Wurm Online, now with bridges that were added 4 months ago" doesn't have the same appeal to new players as it would advertising it about a week after release + bugfixes. And emailing past/existing players about new features clearly isn't bringing enough of them back to maintain or increase the player count for long.

 

Many times over the past few years I've wondered if it would be better for Rolf to halt development of Wurm and use the money to start work on a Wurm 2 built in the Unity engine. At least that way they can use all of the same models, textures and sounds, while also being able to keep the cross-platformness.

 

That's just my opinion though. Rolf (hopefully) knows what's best for his game, and can probably see that Wurm is slowly losing players, considering it peaked at ~6500 premium players 2 years ago.

 

The peak is literally that, a temporary hype when introducing a new thing or opening a new server. It's never gonna stay at that.

[Keenan 5,539]

Thank you for the graphs Bdew!

 

As for making a marketing push for Wurm, I really think this would be best done after some of the QoL improvements that we've seen in the news. At the very least, not until after the new permission system has been fully tested and rolled out. I think we all know how it feels to lose things in this game, and having a more robust system would help new players enjoy the game more. We're also making some good progress on the wiki, which also help with new player retention.

 

As for the PvP/PvE debate... we are all one player base. We can travel freely between PvE and PvP, we can contribute to either, or both. We focus too much on what one side does to the other, and not enough on suggesting general improvements for everyone who plays this game. I've seen precious time and energy wasted by both sides of this debate, spent on nothing more than down-voting and arguing with the other side. Well this game needs both sides. Maybe if we stop burying the proverbial hatchet in one another, we can see about better changes for everyone.

[Docterchese 1,570]

Interesting graphs :3 the side by side analysis of servers is good, likewise the PPMT metric.

 

As for marketing, we're looking into doing some basic, highly targeted marketing centred around our social media platforms. If it's successful, then I'd like to make a habit of keeping it ticking over regularly. We'll never do big bursts of ads - it wouldn't be right for the game - but regular, small and targeted ads could be very beneficial.

[MaurizioAM 919]

You and the 20 % keep saying that to yourself. The 80% is in the meantime saying otherwise and puting their money in " half of the game".

You want your servers to get more populated ? Erase completely all your recruitment threads. Think again and this time write something that could, maybe change our minds. As is now, those threads are very entertaining, almost as entertaing as Trumpy "campaign".

For now is you, the pvp community that ruin the "full game" for the rest of us.

You have been looking at the wrong recruitment threads then. If you want to part of future change their are underdog kingdoms on the rise waiting for some of the freedom population to get up off its arse. I've said it many times over and will repeat it again, chaos does not have the greatest history in terms of newcomers on the server, but don't judge a book by its cover, read a few pages for yourself, and you too might find you actually could enjoy it like many of the other brave freedomers who have tried it and stuck around. Edited September 14, 2015 by MaurizioAM

[Marlon 303]

Keep in mind that Xanadu have a lot of land which is very hard to terraform - I know some people who like to terraform very hard terrain, but most of players prefer semi-flat areas.

For some reason, all the noobs run to xanadu. the whole "largest server!" thing is abstract and deceiving... Deliverance and Indy offers a much tighter, closer knit neighbourhood.

 

 

 

Many times over the past few years I've wondered if it would be better for Rolf to halt development of Wurm and use the money to start work on a Wurm 2 built in the Unity engine. At least that way they can use all of the same models, textures and sounds, while also being able to keep the cross-platformness.

 

That's just my opinion though. Rolf (hopefully) knows what's best for his game, and can probably see that Wurm is slowly losing players, considering it peaked at ~6500 premium players 2 years ago.

Unity, eugh, another hipster script work thing that depends on something else. Look, yes, he knows what the game needs. Apart from everything else, and a new render engine, the graphics are just fine, makes wurm what it is. Ive trusted in his vision, it hasn't failed me before.

 

But yes, I can feel the 'slowdown'... I am not seeing anyone in local anymore, I seeing freedom market fading... you can almost get spots in the inner circle now...

 

Something needs to be done, yes, but hopefully it won't be a sell out. If they pay any attention to half of the idiotic suggestions being made in Suggestions, then yes, itll become a sell out. People will come and go, but the Wurm we know, will be gone.

 

Either way, this thread became stupid long ago. Metrics became a epeen thing again, as usual. No point in going on with it. Let's see what the current developments/render engine dev is going to bring us, and let's hope they manage to market to the right people (as opposed to the HOW DO I DO EVERYTHING in CA HELP, builld a writ, then never come back type)

[Audrel 2,223]

For some reason, all the noobs run to xanadu. the whole "largest server!" thing is abstract and deceiving... Deliverance and Indy offers a much tighter, closer knit neighbourhood.

 

 

Unity, eugh, another hipster script work thing that depends on something else. Look, yes, he knows what the game needs. Apart from everything else, and a new render engine, the graphics are just fine, makes wurm what it is. Ive trusted in his vision, it hasn't failed me before.

 

But yes, I can feel the 'slowdown'... I am not seeing anyone in local anymore, I seeing freedom market fading... you can almost get spots in the inner circle now...

 

Something needs to be done, yes, but hopefully it won't be a sell out. If they pay any attention to half of the idiotic suggestions being made in Suggestions, then yes, itll become a sell out. People will come and go, but the Wurm we know, will be gone.

 

Either way, this thread became stupid long ago. Metrics became a epeen thing again, as usual. No point in going on with it. Let's see what the current developments/render engine dev is going to bring us, and let's hope they manage to market to the right people (as opposed to the HOW DO I DO EVERYTHING in CA HELP, builld a writ, then never come back type)

 

That has a lot to do with the skill gains. It's far easier to get a crafting skill to 80 than it is to get it from 80 to 100. Once 100 is reached, eventually, everyone who keeps skilling will catch up to the inner circle as there is no longer anything to keep ahead of.

[Karys 77]

As for the PvP/PvE debate... we are all one player base. We can travel freely between PvE and PvP, we can contribute to either, or both. We focus too much on what one side does to the other, and not enough on suggesting general improvements for everyone who plays this game. I've seen precious time and energy wasted by both sides of this debate, spent on nothing more than down-voting and arguing with the other side. Well this game needs both sides. Maybe if we stop burying the proverbial hatchet in one another, we can see about better changes for everyone.

 

The problem is that as long as you have features that have their potential limited, or which are altogether unavailable, for one group of players because of the existence of another group, you will have a division in the player base.  Each side will resent the other for what they get or don't get because of the attempt on the part of the game/developers to fill the needs of both groups.

 

I'm not trying to bring religion into this, but there is a bible verse which (as an observation on human nature if nothing else) gives a bit of insight into the situation:  

 

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

 

Likewise, the game cannot be one thing and fill the needs of both groups; it will always have to favor one over the other by making concessions on the part of one group for the benefit of the other.  And whichever side is not favored will naturally feel they have been given the worst end of the deal, and will either blame the other side, or the developers, or both.

 

The best ways to address such a division would be either 1) focus the game on only one form of play, and make it clear that the other is not supported, or 2) separate the two forms of play completely, providing them with separate code so that one is not beholden to the other.

 

Option 1 clearly won't make everybody happy, as it will permanently alienate  whichever group you choose not to support.  As such, this is an approach best decided upon at the initial creation of a game, rather than a position to shift to later down the road.  Still, whenever it is implemented it would make the goals, intents, and effort of the game clear so that at least players would know what to expect of the game, and that those of the disaffected play style would have no room to complain as it would be known that the game was not designed with them in mind; they would either have the option of accepting the game the way that it is and enjoying the play style offered them, or leaving to find a game better suited to their tastes.

 

Option 2 is also not without hazard, as it doesn't really remove the division between the play groups, it only transfers it a bit further out.  While the actual game code would not need to favor one group over the other, development resources may.  Splitting code creates a resource constraint, as what could previously be created and tested once and shared across all servers would now have separate requirements for design, implementation, and testing.  The developers may still favor one group over the other, but now it will manifest as time and resources developing the code for that group, instead of concessions within the code.  It's not a great solution, but it may be the best option for developers who wish to retain both groups of players and remove the animosity between them.

 

Of course, the last option is to just leave things as they are, and to accept that the players will continue to be divided and bicker over any changes which favor one side over the other.  I like to refer to this one as the "fingers in the ears" method, but it seems to be the approach which many MMOs favor.  It doesn't do anything to reduce the ugliness between players, but apparently it works well enough for the developers' bank accounts and balance sheets.  As such, I don't expect anything different from WURM; the game will continue to be less than it could be for either group, and the PvE/PvP rivalry will continue unabated.  But at least we still have a game, and even if it's not perfect, it seems to be the best we can find to meet our tastes for the time being.

[syncaidius 159]

The peak is literally that, a temporary hype when introducing a new thing or opening a new server. It's never gonna stay at that.

 

Exactly. Constantly opening new (or resetting) servers isn't maintaining or growing the player base. It's possible its actually having the opposite effect.

 

But, compare that to the release of multi-story houses, which they semi-advertised/pushed on various gaming sites which bumped up the total premiums by over 1000, most of which stuck around for months, if the graphs were anything to go by.

 

I think its pretty clear that at least letting gaming sites know about new features has a more positive effect than advertising yet another new server.

 

You need new features to keep the game interesting. But right now, I think the main problem (at least for PVE) is how thin the population is spread. Unless you're in a community village/neighbourhood, its rare to find anyone in local on most of the servers (especially Xanadu).

 

Almost 1500 premium players is a lot to lose since Xanadu opened. Over 1000 in the last year alone.

Edited September 15, 2015 by syncaidius

[topkos 495]

After a few posts from pvper's trying to look like they are all friendly, and are trying to make the game good for everyone....it didn't take long to show their true colors...It explains by itself why they are only the 20 %..

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/130576-allow-chaos-and-epic-to-raid-the-pve-servers/

[Theshrike 48]

After a few posts from pvper's trying to look like they are all friendly, and are trying to make the game good for everyone....it didn't take long to show their true colors...It explains by itself why they are only the 20 %..

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/130576-allow-chaos-and-epic-to-raid-the-pve-servers/

 

How is that not being friendly? Are you confusing game actions with real life?

[Nappy 1,369]

After a few posts from pvper's trying to look like they are all friendly, and are trying to make the game good for everyone....it didn't take long to show their true colors...It explains by itself why they are only the 20 %..

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/130576-allow-chaos-and-epic-to-raid-the-pve-servers/

[Theshrike 48]

Now the population graph is gonna get interesting in 2-3 months.

[topkos 495]

BUMP - Go PVE Go

[FlakAttack 21]

the numbers are there . You and Rolf vision can do whatever you want.

I was playing when he let Wild come into JKH. I know his vision since then.

He knows the money is on PVE, the numbers are overwhelming. You can keep playing with x, y , and z.

I'll keep playing with hard graphs.

Have him abandon PVE, and go full speed and focus on his VISION.

We will all see Wurm going down.

 

I was around when Rolf implemented Home raiding too. Rolf was talking about how it was his vision and he was going to do whatever he wanted pve players be damned.

 

His tune changed real fast when we all got refunds.

 

Also advice from a long-time player of Wurm to you newer guys: don't bother feeding the pvp trolls. They like to sound tough on the forums while they beg people to play on their servers. It's more sad than anything... and if we could know the amount of money the two groups bring in, I'd wager that pvp brings in more money per PERSON, but not by as much as they think. Also pve brings in so much more money that the discrepency would be more than accounted for.

 

Essentially, I think Rolf is subsidizing the development of his pvp dream with pve servers. I don't begrudge him that: he's still offering a solid game to pve players while trying to follow his dream. Makes sense to me.