PVP from a PVE perspective - Final verdict

[Nappy 1,369]

I've been playing on Elevation since right after the server reset and along the way I have written a number of articles comparing PVE/PVP and/or Epic/Freedom so today it seems like the logical time to wrap up this series.

 

When I compare PVP to PVE the first word that comes to mind is "Intensity".

 

In PVE I completed some heavy duty terraforming projects, once moving 2 knaar loads of dirt in a weekend. That project was driven by an artificial completion goal set by me.

 

Here in PVP the timing of a job's completion are more often set by the fear or anticipation of an upcoming attack. In those circumstances it is far easier to do another hour of digging to move the job that much further along. It becomes even more intense when you realize that there are 5,10, 15+ others digging along with you at the same time.

 

On PVE bulk tasks are often given out to others to do, almost like it's work that should not be handled by the higher end players (generalization here that's not always true obviously).

 

On PVP some players refer to the same work as going to the gym. In a world where body stats are vitally important to combat survival spending your time digging, mining and woodcutting to help you gain stamina, strength and control can make a significant difference.

 

Both PVE and PVP suffer from some bad apples that do things that could spoil the game for others. PVP has the advantage of giving you the ability to fix most disagreements yourself, one way or the other.

 

Like PVE, PVP also suffers from forums that are largely trash talking. It's an easy thing to fall into and unfortunately it gives a poor impression of the PVP community if you limit your exploration of PVP to reading the forums. In many ways simply ignoring the PVP forums completely will lead to a much stronger and better gamining experience that allows the PVP side of the game to shine brighter then the PVE world of today.

 

Where PVP could use a real improvement is variety.

 

Most deeds follow similar plans, build high dirt walls, build long houses on top, build anti-ramp mines below. Almost everyone wears plate armor and weapon variation is minimal. Attack tactics seem to follow similar patterns largely focused on if it's boat or land based combat.

 

In my opinion there are three real things preventing more PVE players from truly experiencing the PVP world.

 

1) Already mentioned, the incredibly toxic forum environment that often turns off people before they even get started looking into PVP

 

2) Lack of startup information for people coming over for the first time. While some kingdoms, like Valhalla's Descendents have a recruitment village where new  players can come, receive startup guidance and have a good chance to learn the game, other kingdoms that have the same kind of opportunities often don't highlight this in their recruitment efforts. Some kingdoms, to the best of my knowledge, don't have anything to assist new players getting started.

 

New players also represent a very low risk opportunity for aggressive kingdoms to attack and harvest affinities/fight skill once a small amount of time has passed to allow the new players to gain the 20 Fight skill required to make this profitable.

 

While a valid tactic that is permitted by the rules of the game, it also prevents the growth of player count on a server if very strong kingdoms with high end accounts constantly attacks these new players until many of them quit this side of the game.

 

3) Loss of story continuation.

 

We all come into Wurm by creating a character. For many of us that first character is our emotional tie to the game regardless of how many alts we eventually create or acquire.

 

That primary character has a life story line where every skill was earned, every death was felt and every achievement celebrated.

 

Currently when you move to Epic from Freedom you effectively renounce that story and create your character fresh. For many people who have spent untold hours playing that character and building up abilities while having adventures this is the critical deal breaker. It might be interesting to go back for a few hours and experience being new again however for many the need to regain skills already earned leads to either purchasing accounts or taking a return trip to Freedom.

 

Of course this could be avoided by playing PVP on Chaos since your skills transfer to that server. Making the decision to do it this way isn't perfect either because you lose all of the other advantages that come from playing in the Epic world.

 

Something that I feel needs to be looked into is taking advantage of the existing system that keeps track of Freedom and Epic skill levels for each player. Since the formula for the curve is also known it should be possible to calculate how much a Freedom skill level would have changed due to the equivalent of the Epic skill gain achieved while on Epic. So every time you go through the Epic portal it calculates the skill gain difference earned and applies it to your character on Freedom or Epic accordingly depending on the direction of travel you are taking.

 

Now this isn't perfect because certain skills, body stamina is first in my mind, have distinctly more restrictive ways of being earned on Epic then on Freedom. These special cases are the ones that would require greater review and care.

 

I think my greatest enjoyment from my time on Epic has come from the greater sense of community. For defense reasons alone people tend to group together into small villages creating the vital social interaction that is vastly different and unfortunately often missing, on the PVE side of the game.

 

It is this interaction that leads to a far faster knowledge gain into how the game works and how to most effectively play the game. This interaction also leads to "role playing" as people take on the role of village carpenter or village blacksmith. Once these pieces fall into place many of the awkward feeling parts of the game feel much more natural, likely because the way that the game is being played more closely matches the original design of the game.

 

PVE still has a place for me. It has a much more vibrant economy. Due to the safety from PVP it also allows a much greater variety of deed designs. There are times it is nice to get away from a world where at any point an arrow could be coming towards you and PVE is a good world for those breaks.

 

The PVP side gives a much more intense visit into the world of Wurm. It's not a perfect world however if your time in Wurm to date has been entirely one sided and your interest is starting to flag I especially encourage you to try out the PVP side for a bit.

 

Even farmers who never, ever, willingly enter combat will likely discover an extra spark of life when they realize while farming they could have an unexpected encounter.

 

The PVP world is not just for the warriors, it is very much a world of crafters and society builders.

 

Wurm = PVP and PVE.

 

At this point, having spent large amounts of time in both, I can't see this game continuing without having both options available. Hopefully more people spend some time exploring whatever part of the game they haven't yet tried and as a result discover an even stronger attachment to this great game.

 

~Nappy

[Cornchips 3,037]

I've always loved that pretty much every kingdom on elevation treats everyone like family and a lot of people really get blown away from the niceness from everyone when they first play, because they're so used to some everyone-only-helps-themselves attitude from either playing on a home server or around freedom

Edited August 21, 2015 by Cornchips

[Nappy 1,369]

I've always loved that pretty much every kingdom on elevation treats everyone like family and a lot of people really get blown away from the niceness from everyone when they first play, because they're so used to some everyone-only-helps-themselves attitude from either playing on a home server or around freedom

[Capi 895]

Almost everyone wears plate armor and weapon variation is minimal.

While I agree with the first, I have to strongly disagree with the second. Epic player use pretty much every shield type available and i don't think I've ever seen that many different weapons in pvp at the same time. People use mauls, sickles, swords and axes left and right. There is no 'Use this one shield and this one weapon'.

 

Overall a good read (not just this post, also your previous ones)  and I'm happy that you made this experience for yourself and hope that it motivates some more Freedom players to try out Epic and it's play-style.

[Nappy 1,369]

While I agree with the first, I have to strongly disagree with the second. Epic player use pretty much every shield type available and i don't think I've ever seen that many different weapons in pvp at the same time. People use mauls, sickles, swords and axes left and right. There is no 'Use this one shield and this one weapon'.

 

Overall a good read (not just this post, also your previous ones)  and I'm happy that you made this experience for yourself and hope that it motivates some more Freedom players to try out Epic and it's play-style.

 

I have noticed some shield variation between metal and wooden shields although there seems to be a gradual movement towards wooden. The main weapons that people seem to recommend are often longswords, large axe and sickles. So some variation but not as extensive as the full list of available weapon types would allow.

 

One point that you indirectly raise is that I should point out that most of my Epic experience has come as either a member of HOTS or VD. Most combat encounters have been between Rome (still have that snazzy wagon I grabbed from them in one of my earliest combat patrols), BL or VD with a bit of recent combat involving JK so it's quite possible that more exposure to the other kingdoms will lead to changed opinion. In fact, let me take this opportunity to encourage BL, JK and MR to sight-see the lovely Roman landscape so that I can enjoy some battle scenery - grin.

 

I appreciate your kind words regarding my writing efforts. Thanks!

 

~Nappy

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

Wurm = PVP and PVE.

 

At this point, having spent large amounts of time in both, I can't see this game continuing without having both options available. Hopefully more people spend some time exploring whatever part of the game they haven't yet tried and as a result discover an even stronger attachment to this great game.

 

~Nappy

I am happy to have read this and that you shared your experience in this way.  If you were to only read the forums there would be a limited and negative understanding of what pvp is about and what the servers are like.  I always share, to my surprise when playing on pvp servers I have found them to be extremely friendly, open, enemy kingdoms jumping into each others ts to talk and laugh, a very strong sense of family and teamwork across all kingdoms, and servers.  Although I split my time fairly equally among pve and pvp servers I find the unity and richness of the game is most fully expressed on pvp servers.  It's the Ying and Yang in complete I feel when playing on both pve and pvp servers and I like being part of both and highlight that vs divisive us vs them that can happen.  Outiside of unity/family  your use of intemsity as a description is apt.  It is like normal wurm 2.5x more intense due to more variables of what could be happening at any given moment.  When you first try it the intensity can be intimidating.  When you depart for freedom you find as time passes you miss some of that intensity and need to return for the adrenaline rush and recharge.   Thank you for sharing and I hope my sharing has added to this and not taken from it in any way.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Bloodscythe

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

good post old man

[Ayes 3,715]

 

In my opinion there are three real things preventing more PVE players from truly experiencing the PVP world...

Now that your series is drawing to a close I will make some final comments, the first being in response to the above.

 

Having played on the Epic server for a few months on and off after it opened, the point that kept stabbing me in the brain bringing me back to reality was the fact that all that I had created could be destroyed by other players at their whim. For me then it made creating these environments a waste of time.

 

I even made a deed and disbanded it shortly thereafter since if I didn't protect it, it would be subject to draining from other players. Not being one to freely hand money I had acquired out in that *other* world to random individuals who would seek to do me harm, I shortly realized my foolishness and disbanded it.

 

Not being a *group* type player myself, another bad fit for the pvp servers became just as apparent shortly after wasting time building anything there. Another aspect of the same situation. If a person is not a group player within a Village they put themselves at a great disadvantage and make themselves a prime target for even a group of a few players.

 

Being the type of individual who enjoys a relaxing environment and doing activities to enhance it with my *own* efforts, the pvp servers would offer me nothing but conflict and loss. I think I am hardly unique in the points that I have expressed above which somehow have slipped your attention in stating what "prevents" other players from playing upon the pvp servers.

 

What I get from your series of posts on this topic is that you are a person that enjoys being part of a group of players and the interactions that result from that. Naturally the Wurm pvp servers enhance this effect, encouraging this by the necessity to group up for profit and survival. Really doesn't take much time to figure this out, much less a whole series of posts which seem to attempt to glorify pvp above what it actually is, a team sport.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I am not attempting to state that pvp will not be an enjoyable experience for some players but the numbers clearly reveal that it is not a popular choice. Perhaps it is based more upon the reality of the situation as I have pointed out, rather than some misunderstanding of what pvp is all about, as you contend.

 

Although I stopped reading this series after a time, I will state that it was all well composed and the efforts taken to do so were very apparent but I think your points will be of little influence or interest to those who think along the lines that I have expressed. To each their own and thus the pvp servers provide that aspect for those so inclined, also brining more income to the game, so on both points worthwhile to continue on an equitable time basis devoted to its further development.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

[Nappy 1,369]

Now that your series is drawing to a close I will make some final comments, the first being in response to the above.

 

Having played on the Epic server for a few months on and off after it opened, the point that kept stabbing me in the brain bringing me back to reality was the fact that all that I had created could be destroyed by other players at their whim. For me then it made creating these environments a waste of time.

 

I even made a deed and disbanded it shortly thereafter since if I didn't protect it, it would be subject to draining from other players. Not being one to freely hand money I had acquired out in that *other* world to random individuals who would seek to do me harm, I shortly realized my foolishness and disbanded it.

 

Not being a *group* type player myself, another bad fit for the pvp servers became just as apparent shortly after wasting time building anything there. Another aspect of the same situation. If a person is not a group player within a Village they put themselves at a great disadvantage and make themselves a prime target for even a group of a few players.

 

Being the type of individual who enjoys a relaxing environment and doing activities to enhance it with my *own* efforts, the pvp servers would offer me nothing but conflict and loss. I think I am hardly unique in the points that I have expressed above which somehow have slipped your attention in stating what "prevents" other players from playing upon the pvp servers.

 

What I get from your series of posts on this topic is that you are a person that enjoys being part of a group of players and the interactions that result from that. Naturally the Wurm pvp servers enhance this effect, encouraging this by the necessity to group up for profit and survival. Really doesn't take much time to figure this out, much less a whole series of posts which seem to attempt to glorify pvp above what it actually is, a team sport.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I am not attempting to state that pvp will not be an enjoyable experience for some players but the numbers clearly reveal that it is not a popular choice. Perhaps it is based more upon the reality of the situation as I have pointed out, rather than some misunderstanding of what pvp is all about, as you contend.

 

Although I stopped reading this series after a time, I will state that it was all well composed and the efforts taken to do so were very apparent but I think your points will be of little influence or interest to those who think along the lines that I have expressed. To each their own and thus the pvp servers provide that aspect for those so inclined, also brining more income to the game, so on both points worthwhile to continue on an equitable time basis devoted to its further development.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

 

Hi Ayes,

 

I think you raise some very good points here and this, the summary post in the series, is an excellent place to raise them.

 

Your first few paragraphs do state some really excellent things for people to consider and personally I agree with you on both of them. They should be added as additional reasons why people may decide against trying PVP. 

 

- Deeds can be drained and even disbanded here, your items can be freely looted and it can be a harsh place at times. 

 

- Working as part of a group or community in PVP gives you a real advantage because you can share the load and get much more accomplished in a shorter period of time. It is also possible to have your deeded protected with ingame defenders around the clock if recruiting goes well

 

Where I find you in disagreement is your characterization of the whole series as designed to glorify PVP. I didn't come to PVP to give it lots of positive vibes. I came to PVP because I was becoming really bored in Freedom and I wanted to see for myself what PVP was like. Sharing the feedback of my experience really is trying to pass the message of here's what I found and here's what I think of it. Each person is very different.

 

The numbers of PVP versus PVE is also a silly discussion point for a few reasons. Lots more people on PVE Freedom participate in PVP then is commonly known. Many keep it quiet for various reasons, one is to avoid the constant PVP versus PVE stuff. I am more aware of the numbers then most because on Freedom I sold many high end weapons for awhile and it soon became possible to recognize who is a PVPer just by what they purchased in many cases.

 

The other reason why I no longer buy into the numbers argument is because so many have tired of the PVP trash talk and never try it. It's not that they aren't interested in the concept but rather that they are unwilling to put themselves into an environment that on the surface seems really nasty. This is a mess that the PVP community has created and if they truly want to have more people try PVP then it will start with cleaning up that area in my opinion.

 

The reality is that the amount of crap I have dealt with in game from griefers is much higher on the PVE side then it is on the PVP side currently. Hopefully the GM's and other staff will eventually get this sorted out.

 

On a personal level your understanding of me as a person is somewhat lacking as well, likely because we haven't shared many interactions yet.

 

Although I enjoy playing in Wurm communities in this game, in real life I tend to also very much enjoy solo activities. A little known fact is that I have bicycled around all five great lakes of North America, a distance of 9,255 kilometers taking 93 riding days. 4 of those 5 lakes were undertaken completely solo so I am very comfortable also doing things on my own without having to be part of a group. In many ways I enjoy solo undertakings.

 

I guess the other thing that I didn't outright state in my final post is that I am somewhat saddened by the polarization that is now visible, especially in the forums, between PVE and PVP players. Both groups can appear threatened by the other and I think this is actually one of the largest dangers this game faces overall. Through playing in the others shoes, even for a few moments, we can at least hopefully come to respect the other viewpoints that exist. As you stated in your comments you actually did do that and I commend you for it. I hope many others also try all sides of the game to determine what parts they enjoy.

 

I respect you and thank you for sharing your feedback. Hopefully with some time we will get to know each other better.

 

Meanwhile, Wurm is a great game with plenty of things for people to try. If people only take one thing from the series my sincere hope is that this is what they had reinforced.

 

~Nappy

[Sullen 30]

Great work Nappy, about time someone did something like this. I'm sure it will get referenced a lot for those interested.

 

I won't delve too deep into this, but I know that if I were able to have a deed that was not drainable, unable to steal from and unable to destroy things on, (and to a lesser extent have "perks" like increased skill gains, increased rare rolls on "PVP" deeds) I'd probably play PVP.

 

I really think that little change would be the thing to make people go try PVP on Chaos and Epic. But would require a lot of considerations, coding, PVP-only deed zones, non-raidable deed zones etc etc. And I'm willing to bet it doesn't fit the "vision" the devs have for PVP, but I thought it was worth putting my quick opinion.

[FranktheTank 1,901]

I feel like the #1 thing you forget to mention or have yet to experience is being betrayed.

 

As the someone who was betrayed few times and done some myself I think you are forgetting something

 

More often than not new players are enemy kingdom spies (shocking!) they join a village to scope out the size, defenses, and where things are kept. While this can be circumvented with a recruitment village like set up many do not want to put the time and effort into setting such provisions up.

Edited August 22, 2015 by FranktheTank

[Cornchips 3,037]

sorry but that doesn't happen on epic

like at all

no one really "betrays" people I dunno why it's such a focus, you're not gonna have your stuff taken and booted from village ,every situation i've ever witnessed where someone was kicked out they were given a few days and a cart and stuff to take all their , people don't hate one another here

 

actually enemy players are often allowed on the other sides on other accounts because they play legit in those kingdoms and don't spy/aren't toxic and everyone has fun

Edited August 22, 2015 by Cornchips

[Propheteer 7,139]

I feel like the #1 thing you forget to mention or have yet to experience is being betrayed.

 

As the someone who was betrayed few times and done some myself I think you are forgetting something

 

More often than not new players are enemy kingdom spies (shocking!) they join a village to scope out the size, defenses, and where things are kept. While this can be circumvented with a recruitment village like set up many do not want to put the time and effort into setting such provisions up.

 

in the entirety of my time on epic

 

i have only seen that happen to two people

 

one was actually an alt, the other was an accident, but that individual still plays today.

[FranktheTank 1,901]

good to know

 

I guess personal experiences vary

Edited August 22, 2015 by FranktheTank

[demondan 1,865]

If you can handle PVE furom behaviour, PVP will be a breeze for you.

[Zzabur 6]

Never seen a traitor since i am playing on pvp (2006) though spy alts seem common.

 

Anyway, i agree about more griefing on pve, but i think there is an explanation : on pvp, you got far less "rules" about griefing, because a lot of things considered griefing on pve is only fair game on pvp (destroying roads, killing animals, enclosing people.....). If we see a grifer roaming around our city, we just hunt him and the issue is quickly resolved (on a side or the other, solo "griefers" on pvp are often bait lol).

 

I went to pvp, even if i am not really a fighter, just because pvp force people to teamwork. On pve, once you can deal with biggest pve threats (which is not really hard using guards and walls protection), why would i team with someone else? There is almost no advantages to do so, only risks (he can be a thief or a griefer, or just leave the game because of IRL at the wrong moment, or we can disagree about deed's upkeep.....). On pvp, a solo deed will be very hard to maintain, so you are almost forced to gather to defend, so you're forced to teamplay. And teamplay is what i look for when i pay a subscription for a mmorpg, if i want to play solo, there are tons of other games that will fit.

 

That's why i firmly believe that this kind of game will always have tons of issues on a pve perspective, freedom means pvp for me, not because you HAVE to, but just because you CAN do it. However, i respect pve players, and if they prefer to play on pve servers, i won't try to convince them. I have met some very helpful people on pve, though most of people i met didn't even reply to my "hello!"

[Battlepaw 585]

I feel like the #1 thing you forget to mention or have yet to experience is being betrayed.

 

As the someone who was betrayed few times and done some myself I think you are forgetting something

 

More often than not new players are enemy kingdom spies (shocking!) they join a village to scope out the size, defenses, and where things are kept. While this can be circumvented with a recruitment village like set up many do not want to put the time and effort into setting such provisions up.

[Griffith 362]

very nice summation.

 

from my own experience the only thing i would add is, to not have any preconceived assumptions of

what you will experience when you decide to try it out.

 

Why? Because ive ventured into pvp teriitory a few times and everytime it has been a completely

different adventure. And yes i see them as adventures just because they have been so different.

From a small stay at a village, to soloing in epic, founding a deed in Chaos, taking a few alts

to chaos to convert them to religions at the lights as kind of a personal goal, they where all adventures

i remember fondly.

 

Also the Chaos and Epic of today are very different from what they where before because either rulesets

have changed or maps have changed.

 

I agree though that my main hold back is having spent so much time in freedom is an anchor

that prevents me from trying it more. And that i mostly play to relax. But if you play for more

excitement definitely do pvp

[Battlepaw 585]

very nice summation.

 

from my own experience the only thing i would add is, to not have any preconceived assumptions of

what you will experience when you decide to try it out.

 

Why? Because ive ventured into pvp teriitory a few times and everytime it has been a completely

different adventure. And yes i see them as adventures just because they have been so different.

From a small stay at a village, to soloing in epic, founding a deed in Chaos, taking a few alts

to chaos to convert them to religions at the lights as kind of a personal goal, they where all adventures

i remember fondly.

 

Also the Chaos and Epic of today are very different from what they where before because either rulesets

have changed or maps have changed.

 

I agree though that my main hold back is having spent so much time in freedom is an anchor

that prevents me from trying it more. And that i mostly play to relax. But if you play for more

excitement definitely do pvp

Edited August 23, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Marlon 303]

This was an excellent thread for me, having just created a new character or two (the fiancee) on chaos.

I liked every reply too, and couldn't see where I would disagree.

 

The reason we created new characters, is because:

1. We have work, upkeep, things that will be ongoing on Indy

2. Don't really want to risk too much, not knowing the ins and outs yet.

 

Experiences have been interesting to far, guys setting up new deeds, as if it was pve, going about normal day to day business.

 

But I must say, the one thing that makes it so interesting to try and survive there again, as a new "character", is the fact that you have to look over your shoulder. Walking through the woods, and finding a still burning campfire, is now not just someones fire, it actually means "someone is probably still near..."

The fact that I can decide if I want to steal the meal in it, and take my chances, or back off... that is special. It's the SMALL little perspective, that I wish I had on Pve.

 

We played several hours now, and skilling up is not doing so well, not sure how long we will persist, but it's been interesting, spirited and enticing so far...

 

Marlon

[Omar 479]

Great post Nappy.

 

 

It is this interaction that leads to a far faster knowledge gain into how the game works and how to most effectively play the game. 

 

I think this is under appreciated by most players. Solo players miss out on a lot. And using teamspeak you can explain a question and get a good answer in just a few seconds.

[MisterTeddy 284]

first of all, great post - or more like series of posts

 

Most deeds follow similar plans, build high dirt walls, build long houses on top, build anti-ramp mines below. Almost everyone wears plate armor and weapon variation is minimal. Attack tactics seem to follow similar patterns largely focused on if it's boat or land based combat.

 

this is a testament to the state of (im)balance in this game - there are barely any viable options within each category of items (although weapons and shields are actually fairly balanced imo and are the only balanced parts of Wurm PvP)

 

in the entirety of my time on epic

 

i have only seen that happen to two people

 

one was actually an alt, the other was an accident, but that individual still plays today.

 

Bashur's live stream lmao

[Mclovin 2,591]

JKH - has a new player recruitment deed which is ran by 2 CA's on the server. The department of new player assistance

[Mith 318]

Nappy, I believe you capture the feeling I have of the pvp servers very well. A very nice read, thank you.

[sulfurblade 111]

So on the touchy topic you touched on in regards to being able to travel to and fro from freedom and epic with some crazy skill gain adjustment logarithm well, I disagree....

 

A) thats only gate away and a gate can be a very convenient form of travel.  This would allow people to use Epic as if it were Felluca and Freedom as if it were Trammel (Stealing Ultima Online terms) and you would quickly see Epic turn into a ghost town, because even the pvp minded would want there base in the most secure location IE freedom....  This would only lead to ruining the game, IMHO....

 

So I have a different suggestion.  A new Religiously tolerant and Alignment tolerant kingdom made up of Libila, Fo, Vynora, Magnaron, and Player god followers.  (Freedom) Can rename it something catchy....

And connect the Freedom Cluster Via the North side of Elevation but not directly....  Put a Server inbetween and Call it wild...  Filled with the most horrible Mobs Wurm has ever seen... Sea Serpents common place, NoGumps common Place, Drakespirits common place, Eaglespirits common place, this server would be crazy for even a knarr full of highly skilled players to enter and live and thats because of the PVE content that is there.... And absolutely no building on this server....  And No Rock either... so no Mines used as safe harbors...just lots of crazy terrain made of dirt...

 

If Any of the PvP kingdoms did dodge there way thru this PvE nightmare then they arrive in freedom where they get met with, a Worse Skill Debuff then if they were on a Home server (Thats right we will protect the carebears)....

 

However on the flip side if Freedom rally's together and manages to sail a Knarr full south and they make it thru the PVE nightmare then they could head to a Homeserver with there crazy skills?!?  (Nope they get the same higher debuff on homeservers as we get when we travel to them)

 

AH but Elevation the land of battle will have no debuff to skills so yes the Carebears can freely travel down to Elevation and wreak havoc from affair but they have to actually travel via an inconvenient mode of transportation to do so!

 

And before the Freedomers wave their arms in protest saying no we don't want to be hooked up to the PvP land we don't want to be part of Epic because you will all come kill us every 5 minutes.  - I want you to know that thought process is off base even on epic PvP on the homeservers is sparse and with a larger skill debuff applied and having to travel thru this crazy PvE infested nightmare to get there you would still live 99% of the time in the same relatively peaceful mode you live in now.....

 

I am sure there will be plenty of people that think this suggestion is half baked but think of the benifits of having one Big Sandbox....  You could even travel from Chaos to Freedom set sail down thru the Crazy new Wild and possibly make it to Elevation....  Everyone could cross each others path even if doing so is a totally suicidal endeavor akin to climbing mount everest...

Edited August 29, 2015 by sulfurblade