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Patreus

You switched to Java 8 early.

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Not all of Wurm players use Windows, you know. And not all of the Linux users are willing to install Java 8 from Oracle, since there is a native alternative, namely OpenJDK, which runs flawlessly, and can be installed from the original Debian repositories. Now, OpenJDK 8 is already available, but the javaws-related plugin is not; furthermore, Debian considers OpenJDK 7 the default Java - for a reason.


Net result: Debian users (or Debian-based, including Ubuntu) are now forced to install Oracle's Java, they want it or not.


Wurm switched to Java 8 early, for no apparent reason, other than to ignore Linux community and force the use of Oracle products. How many years should we wait till developers finally realize there is a thing called Linux community, and has its quality standards, according to which switching to every new version of software early should be optional and NOT mandatory?


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While I can certainly understand there is some frustration, isn't your decision to not install the oracle java 8 the issue here?


 


the majority of players run on windows, and java 7 has reached it's end of life.


 


The game needs java 8 to continue growing, and allow implementation of new features, perhaps not expecting the game to hold up and wait for those who choose to run an outdated system or java version would be the better alternative


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Java 8's first release was on 18 march 2014 and Java 7 was declared end of life on April 2015. Hardly "switching early" :) Java 8 has new technologies and other improvements over Java 7 and once they start using them, they cant go back. 


 


Java 7 is also end of life and hence a security risk. Maybe not for you, but for the majority it is. I think it is in bad taste to stop improvements and betterments just because one or two users "likes the flavor strawberry better than chocolate even though chocolate is a leap forward and an improvement". Oracles java 8 works, and there is even an Ubuntu-supported version of it.


 


Quote from java's original site:


 


Java SE 7 End of Public Updates Notice


After April 2015, Oracle will no longer post updates of Java SE 7 to its public download sites. Existing Java SE 7 downloads already posted as of April 2015 will remain accessible in the Java Archive on the Oracle Technology Network. Developers and end-users are encouraged to update to more recent Java SE versions etc etc etc


Edited by Viti
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Great conspiracy theory.

Many Windows applications require .net and DirectX. Requiring Wurm players to upgrade Java is no different. The game is built on Java after all.

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Have to kindly agree with the responders above.


This is not early, and adopting the features of 8 is beneficial to everyone. It's been proven with some browser that some big companies made, if you don't force people a little, they just never do it, and security, performance and technical-debt builds up.


 


java evolves fast, the fact that it's on j8 now, is a good thing. I am still holding thumbs for some concurrency.


 


As a debian user myself, I hear your concern, but we knew this when we bought into it's rocksolid, but slightly yesterday 'stable' :)


With that said, I do play wurm on windows 90% of the time.


Edited by Marlon

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Not all of Wurm players use Windows, you know. And not all of the Linux users are willing to install Java 8 from Oracle, since there is a native alternative, namely OpenJDK, which runs flawlessly, and can be installed from the original Debian repositories. Now, OpenJDK 8 is already available, but the javaws-related plugin is not; furthermore, Debian considers OpenJDK 7 the default Java - for a reason.

Net result: Debian users (or Debian-based, including Ubuntu) are now forced to install Oracle's Java, they want it or not.

Wurm switched to Java 8 early, for no apparent reason, other than to ignore Linux community and force the use of Oracle products. How many years should we wait till developers finally realize there is a thing called Linux community, and has its quality standards, according to which switching to every new version of software early should be optional and NOT mandatory?

 

Please don't use Java 7. It is EOL for a reason.

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Hi,

for those that use Ubuntu (not Debian): you already using not upstream conforment implementations. You don't follow the ideology of Debian GNU (for details see here). So why are you complaining? If you want to follow the ideology (what's honorable) then simply have to make the sacrifice that you can't play Wurm.

 

Regards

Davidius

Edited by Davidius

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I expected such kind of answers (and even worse) and I already regret I posted here. Whenever someone has doubts about anything concerning Wurm developers' decisions, players (not devs) are ready to bash the "heretic" again and again, with the usual style "who are you to question sacred Wurm?". It's so typical, and the main reason that, although I like and play the game, I rarely post in forums. I admit I expected even worse bashing but I see, once again, almost everybody is ready to applause ANY change from devs with religious passion.


 


Now, the Java 8 "upgrade" is still early bird, no matter what you say. Java 8 is NOT considered the default java even by Debian "testing" version (one of the major Linux distributions ever, and the one that influenced many others, including the popular Ubuntu). But I forgot, games=Windows, you should be happy it even runs on Linux, who cares about opensource alternatives to Java that delay switching to version 8; what? the delay switching to 8 for a reason? who cares. Now, shut up and go install new proprietary crap from Oracle or quit playing, even though you paid for the next 2 months. Oh, and never ever question sacred developers decisions or players (who pay just like you) will start bashing. Amen.


Edited by Patreus

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I expected such kind of answers (and even worse) and I already regret I posted here. Whenever someone has doubts about anything concerning Wurm developers' decisions, players (not devs) are ready to bash the "heretic" again and again, with the usual style "who are you to question sacred Wurm?". It's so typical, and the main reason that, although I like and play the game, I rarely post in forums. I admit I expected even worse bashing but I see, once again, almost everybody is ready to applause ANY change from devs with religious passion.

 

Now, the Java 8 "upgrade" is still early bird, no matter what you say. Java 8 is NOT considered the default java even by Debian "testing" version (one of the major Linux distributions ever, and the one that influenced many others, including the popular Ubuntu). But I forgot, games=Windows, you should be happy it even runs on Linux, who cares about opensource alternatives to Java that delay switching to version 8; what? the delay switching to 8 for a reason? who cares. Now, shut up and go install new proprietary crap from Oracle or quit playing, even though you paid for the next 2 months. Oh, and never ever question sacred developers decisions or players (who pay just like you) will start bashing. Amen.

You seem to be misunderstanding what's really being said. While the Linux side of things may not have updated yet for the PARTICULAR software you're talking about. You went off on an unneeded tangent that other players stated simply out of fact... Before I continue, let me put it into a bit of perspective.

 

Windows XP has reached its EOL for support. You gain no benefits from keeping it other than already having it. Support becomes harder, and you can't support newer architectures of software, whatever so on and so forth... Do people bash the next version of Windows, besides them never being ready for release honestly, because they HAVE to upgrade to get the next DirectX version?

Not really a great example, but the point here is, with a Windows OS, if you needed DirectX 10 and you can only support.... DirectX 8, you typically have no choice but to get an updated OS. That being said....

 

You have the choice to use Oracle's "crap" to be able to play, UNTIL your native ALTERNATIVE, as you said yourself, is available for use with Java 8. Then you can uninstall that other crap and go on with your life. Bottom line is, you have the choice, myself not being a major Linux user, probably wouldn't understand the full effect, but it can't be that bad unless it ruins your entire OS like most things does to windows from time to time.

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I use Oracle java 8 crap and install it on any of my new system instead of openjdk. Sad to say but had issues using other java apps as well with openjdk. Additionally I use proprietary nvidia drivers as well - I know I'm a conformist and not full hearted toward open source... But anyway using a distro and not building my linux from scratch I'm written down already :-P

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I think the switch came at a good time, not too soon and not too late. Java 8 is almost 1 1/2 years old now, is stable and runs on many platforms.


 


And if the only disadvantage of Java 8 is that there is no fully functional open-source version of it yet - well, then so be it. The benefits of switching to Java 8 outweigh the drawbacks.


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And if the only disadvantage of Java 8 is that there is no fully functional open-source version of it yet - well, then so be it. The benefits of switching to Java 8 outweigh the drawbacks.

Yeah yeah, sure. Who cares about open source. Sooo magnificent benefits from Java 8. Let me guess... more eye-candy stuff, and not a single improvement on gameplay. But of course, that's all that matters. Amen. And amen, and amen.

 

Cheers.

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Yeah yeah, sure. Who cares about open source. Sooo magnificent benefits from Java 8. Let me guess... more eye-candy stuff, and not a single improvement on gameplay. But of course, that's all that matters. Amen. And amen, and amen.

 

Cheers.

Well, here lies the part where the user has to decide if they want to make compromises or not. If you wanted to complain in this manner, it would have probably been much more beneficial, although probably overlooked by devs, comment to make when the announcement that Java 8 was implemented in the unstable client, rather than after it's been moved to the main client even if it was only done in ~8 days. You already know the alternative, it's just up to you to tolerate it for a while or not. Besides that, nobody can help you more than that.

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here's an infinite number of scenarios like this where they have to make a decision that might annoy a tiny group of people who play this game.
 

They shouldn't have to wait to switch to Java 8 just because one specific developer / set of developers haven't released their open source alternative to something that's been out for over a year. Wurm is based on Java. Java 8 works on Linux. I really don't see the issue

Edited by Aflacduck
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For those who are "purists" enough so that they refuse to infect their system with proprietary crap: You can actually play Wurm without installing Oracle Java (no system-wide installation, not even user-wide). Download Oracle Java from http://www.java.com/en/download/linux_manual.jsp. There is no need to download any distro-specific install files. Now, extract the downloaded tarball:



tar -xzf <your download path>/jre-8u60-linux-x64.tar.gz

Note that version "8u60" may differ, and the "-x64" part is only present if you downloaded the 64-bit version. Now, you can start playing by typing



~/jre1.8.0_60/bin/javaws http://www.wurmonline.com/client/wurmclient.jnlp

in a terminal. This will also create a desktop shortcut, which you can use from now on.


 


Well, that's it. Your system will be unaware of Oracle Java, which will only be used to run Wurm. The system will still use OpenJDK and icedtea for anything else. Once icedtea 8 is out, you can simply delete the Oracle Java folder, and use the open source version again.


Strictly speaking, this is just a temporary workaround, until java 8 is officially the default java on Linux. Your system will run Oracle Java, so it is still "infected" by proprietary crap somehow, but it is only used in order to play Wurm, and nothing else whatsoever.


 


Notes.


  • You may need to clear Java cache before playing for the first time:

~/jre1.8.0_60/bin/javaws -Xclearcache

  • If, for any reason, You don't get a desktop shortcut, you can create one. Just open any editor and type the following

[Desktop Entry]
Version=1.0
Type=Application
Comment=Wurm Online client
Terminal=false
Categories=Applications;Wurm Online
Name=Wurm Online
Exec=<your home directory>/jre1.8.0_60/bin/javaws http://www.wurmonline.com/client/wurmclient.jnlp
Encoding=UTF-8

then save as ~/Desktop/Wurm.desktop.


  • There is evidence it is possible to use OpenJDK 8 together with icedtea 7 (even though icedtea version doesn't match). For that, you will need to install OpenJDK 8, and force deletion of OpenJDK 7 (needs to be forced because it is a dependency for icedtea 7). However, I do not recommend this, for two reasons. First, java 8 is NOT considered the default java on Linux - and that's for a reason. Second, using icedtea 7 which expects OpenJDK 7 while OpenJDK 8 is actually installed may lead to unexpected results.
Edited by Patreus

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âžœ    javaws -version

icedtea-web 1.6 (fedora-3.fc22-x86_64)

âžœ   java -version

openjdk version "1.8.0_51"

OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_51-b16)

OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.51-b03, mixed mode)

 

Also, "Debian considers OpenJDK 7 default" due to its policies of using very old versions of software. Even in testing, even in unstable. This does not mean anything useful neither is has any "reason".

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It does have a reason. Debian policy for "stable" or "testing" software is very strict for a reason, and it is the exact opposite of distros like Ubuntu (basically a poor copy of Debian, dependent to it), which not only directly violates the GNU/Linux philosophy, but is also full of not thoroughly tested versions of software, including kernel.


 


Anyway, thank you for the extra evidence that it's possible to use icedtea 7 with OpenJDK 8. Still not the workaround I would prefer though.


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 it would have probably been much more beneficial, although probably overlooked by devs, comment to make when the announcement that Java 8 was implemented in the unstable client, rather than after it's been moved to the main client even if it was only done in ~8 days.

 

Am I reading this right, devs announced that java 8 will be required about 8 days before it was required for stable? I assumed it was known for a long time, and only I didn't know it and then suddenly I heard something and saw it required for stable. :D  ... I'm probably misreading it. If it is, it's surprising.

 

Thanks for the workaround to use oracle's java only for wurm, Pat. You still need to accept a looong heavy agreement that no one reads and everyone accepts, but then, everyone does it so what can go wrong? :P

Edited by Anarres

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