"Play nice or ill rip your heart out."

[Neb 42]

I have been made aware that should I travel within local range of a particular deed I will receive an account ban.

& under current rules : if I discuss the threat of a Ban i could receive an account ban.

 

The majority of the alliance this decision affects are placing items and accounts up for sale.

Most of us are now too scared or unwilling to play, whilst I feel obliged to seek legal advice.

I acknowledge that by raising this issue I risk loosing 300-500 euros of items on my accounts and 10 years of investment that i would dearly love to continue..... 

 

....however .....

 

I feel the wider community needs to be aware of the implications of "play nice" effecting entire alliances, through no action of the individual player.

 

 

[Neb 42]

I have deliberately not mentioned names places or staff.

I can see everyone involved - without exception -  is doing what they feel is best for the game in the long run,

(Including those who play devils advocate by attempting to force a debate on the issue).

 

I simply feel the community needs to be aware that the actions of the few can impact the many.

[Edge 141]

Admins are going crazy enforcing rules that aren't clear and hinge on interpretations of the mindset of people that can never be really known. It's arbitrary and injust.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Edge

[TrofeoLover1 2]

Yeah, that's why I'm not in an alliance.

[tarlynn 196]

Unfortunately with the vast amount of griefers, and the outcry from the community to enforce, it seems the admins are in a position of damned if you do, damned if you don't. The very unfortunate part of the whole things is that it does harshly impact sometimes a group of players that are not always directly involved. The best thing to do, or advice that I could give for the time being, would honestly just be to lay low and mind your own for the time being until it blows over. 

 

It is sad to see players leave due to a decision that they do not agree with. In circumstances like this I do believe that a player should have an opportunity to address the admins or gm's that have put the sanction into effect to be able to state their side IN AN ADULT MANNER and possibly work out an agreement amongst all parties. If this fails then absolutely dictation of intense punishment should occur. 

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Aeris 3,751]

Interesting how one of the biggest bullies in the game is getting GM protection for an offdeed mine and that that protection extends as far as to threaten to ban people simply for coming near his place. Maybe he should interview himself about that.
 
InB4 I receive yet another strongly worded PM that noone dares dealing with. Had to report him twice last time he harrassed me to get something done about it. At least I think they handled it the second time.

[Sometouw 30]

Why can't the whole story be laid out?

 

Enki posted earlier this year that the long held belief by posters here and most mods was in fact wrong. There is no rule against naming and shaming, and no such rule ever existed.

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/117723-your-reputation/

 

So if someone is being an asshat, name them. If for no other reason, I would like to know who the real asshats are so I can avoid them. I sure other players would like to know as well.

[Edge 141]

Why can't the whole story be laid out?

 

Enki posted earlier this year that the long held belief by posters here and most mods was in fact wrong. There is no rule against naming and shaming, and no such rule ever existed.

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/117723-your-reputation/

 

So if someone is being an asshat, name them. If for no other reason, I would like to know who the real asshats are so I can avoid them. I sure other players would like to know as well.

 

Only if you have proof, there is a rule against witchunting.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

This sounds like the Slickshot vs Gumbo fight, which has probably gotten sufficient text already in other threads.

[Neb 42]

Please take your discussion of PvE rules back to the relevant topic.

This topic was intended as nothing more than an announcement of something i feel the community needs to be aware.

 

I expect this topic to be deleted : Thus no one will be aware that :

 

You could have movement restrictions imposed upon you, in your absence, that could result in your account being banned. AND that said restrictions will not be communicated to you by those making said judgement.

 

I still maintain my view point that : "I can see (that) everyone involved - without exception - is doing what they feel is best for the game in the long run,"

Edited August 13, 2015 by Neb

[yashua 185]

It's hard not to post, this whole thing has sparked a ton of community curiosity and I'm sure everyone is standing by waiting for more back story.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Are you playing nice?

 

Or playing not-so-nice-but-technically-not-breaking-any-rules?

 

 

 

Poor GMs. This reminds me a lot of the ACLU trying to defend highly unpopular people, because even if they are unlikable they still deserve the same protections as everyone else.  

 

The main people I feel for here, are the staff.

[Niki 2,278]

I have been made aware that should I travel within local range of a particular deed I will receive an account ban.

 

What? I am really confused by this, I think people forget that this is a sandbox game with other people.

[Clatius 455]

 

This topic was intended as nothing more than an announcement of something i feel the community needs to be aware.

 

 

 

Oh, I do like a mystery. Exactly what should 'the community' be aware of, where, how and why would help also? The extreme drama in this game never ceases to amaze me. 

[Neb 42]

@yashua : My view of this matter is biased and incomplete, so i decline to post more than is necessary.

 

@Clatius : you should be aware that....  

You could have movement restrictions imposed upon you, in your absence, that could result in your account being banned.

AND that said restrictions will not be communicated to you by those making said judgement.

 

 

@Brash : I agree, I simply see two opposing viewpoints, and a member of staff doing the best they can with the situation at hand, and tools available to them. 

 

And yes i am aware i appear to contradict myself, however whilst I accept why the judgement was made (and would likely have made the same decision myself) what i have issue with is the judgement was passed upon me in-abstentia.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Neb

[Propheteer 7,139]

drama over something pointless, as per usual, and blown way out of proportion, as per usual.

 

it will go down one of three ways as dictated by the past and demonstrated by how the populace reacted to similar rulings and situations

 

1. they will remove the ruling for this particular situation in due time

2. someone will get banned, and then they will remove the ruling for this particular situation

3. many people will get banned, and then certain staff members will backpedal, said people will get unbanned and ruling for this particular situation overturned.

 

no matter how it plays out, if a good bit of the community thinks the ruling is drastic, too harsh, or simply unnecessary, it always gets changed in due time and in most cases a ruling like this is usually put up to get people to calm down and removed down the line anyway.

 

 

 

it is also worth noting im not talking about the play nice ruling, but the ruling on whatever it is that gets people banned for doing whatever it is that is mentioned in this thread.

 

i would also like to use this opportunity to go ahead and plug an advertisement for your local pvp servers, a place where you dont have to deal with pointless things like this. its actually quite a much less stressful experience, even with raiding, draining, and looting

Edited August 13, 2015 by Propheteer

[judgebanana 11]

I think we are facing a problem here that is threefold and is not issued properly.

 

Case one: Abstract and general rules that are open for interpretation.

 

If one takes a look into the ruleset he'll see things like "don't provoke emotional reactions", "play nice", "don't grief", "don't troll", "don't flame bait" and many more. Mining in an undeeded area can be considered griefing but if you are mining for resources and you deprive them from another player it can easily be considered economic competition. In the same way, a weaponsmith lowering his prices to drive another weaponsmith out of business can be considered griefing on the premise that you deprive silver (a resource like ore) from a competitor. If you write something in chat and a troll reacts to it emotionally, you can also be blamed for "flame bait" even if your intentions were never to get people to react. The list goes on. 

 

Solution: Mechanical rules over Verbal rules

 

We are fortunate enough to play in a digital world where the game mechanics can impose restrictions and limitations. When you have 1000 tiles of deed land to place your tree farm, you can't blame griefers who cut your perimeter trees. The mechanical features and rules were there to protect you, you just failed to use them. I think we need more mechanical rules based on the line drawn by Tich in his current posts about permission systems. Once those are in place, lots of those "open for interpretation" verbal rules have to be removed or at least revised.

 

Case two: The "will rat you to the teacher" syndrom.

 

It's very common in a multiplayer game to get furious over something or someone because multiplayer games are competitive games. In competitive games, players will work against you and when they win over you, you'll start questioning the means they used. If every time the game treats you bad, you call the HGM but most importantly, if every time you do so he responds, people become spoiled. Spoiled people learn this pattern and take it for granted that whenever someone passes with his cart through their perimeter, that would justify a HGM. 

 

Solution: Less ticket replies.

 

People have taken it for granted that whenever a trivial case is brought up, the higher ups from Wurm Online staff must respond. We've all had our "forward this to arch I won't talk to you" moments. Trivial cases should be instantly closed and not be dealt with. To start off, people who insist on pursuing such cases, are very probable to react badly on the verdict if it doesn't suit them and put the blame on the staff and then quit. When you don't reply, you just don't fuel the fire. Work on the forges, not the little campfires. Campfires run out pretty fast but if you fuel them, they leave ashes behind.

 

Case three: Low level staffers not doing their job properly.

 

We've seen many cases where HGMs had to interfere with low level cases because the staff were not handling the case properly. It usually involves staff that are partially biased due to their community affiliactions or staff members that are not fit for the role and were promoted just because they were refered by their friends who were also members of staff.

 

Solution: Better filtering for staff members using data.

 

Word of mouth, personal presentations and "CVs" dont really account for the whole picture. Even if a member of the team looks like the best candidate, his community affiliations might (and it's kinda probable) not allow him to see all cases clearly. As it has been said many times by others in suggestions, staff members should not be friends of friends of friends of staff members. The team should constantly mutate in order to avoid getting one-sided and monolithic. Maybe let freedom staff members handle pvp cases and limit pvp staff members to freedom cases. You get the idea.

 

Conclusion

 

Handling a community diverse enough, like the one we have here in this game, is not an easy task. I'm sure that the staff are doing extreme effort to tame this "beast" of a community. It has worked well a lot of the times. But there are still cases where the current system fails to work. From the famous "HUE" case in Chaos to the LFM picking fights with 7/10 players in Chaos, one has to easily be able to see that there's room for improvement here and that improvement requires some changes and experimentation.

 

Issle,

criminal of the pixels.

Edited August 13, 2015 by judgebanana

[Zekezor 3,188]

Steps to solve the situation:

Step 1) Get your currently best available beverage and snack from the kitchen.

Step 2) Hit the play button at http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/4f884e233f448-mashup-jazz-rain-fire.php

Step 3) Lean back in the chair and chill

Step 4) Start up wurm, dont worry about a thing, dont talk about the "drama" and just do some carefree grinding.

???

Profit

[Toecutter 331]

How about number one rule a GM uses commonsense  how about that instead of basing  everything on rules  that get exploited anyways.I was a GM  in a Telco's servers back in 2001 and we had been given jobs to do and we trusted in those judgements  and sometimes those decisions come from  commonsense if someone was making a game unpleasent to others  then we dealt with them and it did not take long to get control of situations we were GM's we had faith from the company to regulate  and  rule online,it just seems to me Wurm has so many rules GMs follow they actually end up with their hands tied behind their own backs and  commonsense takes a back seat.

[Edge 141]

Mechanical rules are the only real sollution, that's what permissions are about.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Mechanical rules are an easy out that benefit the veteran player and the aggressive player.  

 

They hurt the newer player (who does not know all possible exploits to make use of) and the less-aggressive player (who is not expecting someone to dig their perimeter to bedrock just over a super trivial disagreement).  

 

It sounds like what GMs are trying to do in this case, is simply enforce a cool off enforced cease fire where no one truly wins but the war stops.   Mechanical rules would not stop the war, just encourages players to be more :creative" in their aggression.

 

 

 

 

I feel sorry for GMs in this specific case, and I hope they do not go for an "easy solution" that hurts newer non-veteran players the most. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[Wargasm 1,927]

I think this issue is much more simple than you think.  If you run from cops, don't be disappointed if you get shot in the back.  Translation?   Do what you're told.

 

I don't give a damn about he-saids or she-saids or any given circumstances... there's probably a reason why you're engaged with the staff.

 

Wurm is run by the staff.  If you don't like what they tell you to do, then don't let the door hit you on the way out... it'll save you and all of us "grown-ups" the headache of listening to you whine.

 

Forum posts like these should be deleted (not just locked) because the same idiots making posts like these are the ones complaining there's not enough players.  Gee, I wonder why.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Wargasm

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

 If you run from cops, don't be disappointed if you get shot in the back.  Translation?   Do what you're told. 

 

Well unfortunately people STILL die even when they follow police orders, and ALWAYS DO WHAT THE AUTHORITY TELLS YOU is not a great response for a mature society either, but this all belongs in a political philosophy thread that goes far beyond Wurm and tries to tackle "what the hell is wrong with this world anyway??"   I am sure we all have our own "answers" to that that are all over the map, but rigid rules are rarely a solution to anything.

 

But now we need a Woodscraps thread if we want to continue

Edited August 13, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[Klaa 4,872]

Eh even players (not just the char account) that get banned are given second chances, even so-called perma-bans.

Personally some of the permabans were given too many chances; though, those were extreme cases that ended up being dealt with in time. Can think of two of them offhand, at least the two more notorious ones.

Overall its up to Rolf if he feels like giving a player a second chance, in the past usually after a year.

Still though, if one is the personality type to want to "settle scores" there's always the pvp servers...

[Wargasm 1,927]

Well unfortunately people STILL die even when they follow police orders, and ALWAYS DO WHAT THE AUTHORITY TELLS YOU is not a great response for a mature society either, but this all belongs in a political philosophy thread that goes far beyond Wurm and tries to tackle "what the hell is wrong with this world anyway??"   I am sure we all have our own "answers" to that that are all over the map, but rigid rules are rarely a solution to anything.

 

But now we need a Woodscraps thread if we want to continue

 

Spoken like a true outlaw.  LOL.  Perhaps another one of those little 19 year old kids with a cell phone camera uploaded to YouTube so his friends can see him telling a cop how much he "knows his rights" by not consenting to present his ID to a cop.  The same kind that once the camera gets turned off, he gets tazed and still bothers to wonder why the cop made him ride the lightning.